Too Dangerous to cycle in Dublin?

jsoc

My first post so here goes...
While cycling to work on the 7th April last I fell off my bike..trying to avoid a car which had pulled out..I move too far to the left, hit a stationary car and fell breaking my right kneecap...who was right/wrong in this situation I'm not too clear about ..it happened too fast...
In any case , I was brought to St. Vincents , 24 hours on a trolley after being admitted to A&E, off to the operation on Thursday morning and let out of the hospital on Friday afternoon and have been recovering at home since...so have had time to think about it all...
I'm 43 and I've been cycling in and out of work for the last 3-4 years now approx...(previously I cycled in and out of Dublin when I was 18-> 23 years of age before I left to work in Germany) and in all that time,have had a few close calls and some direct hits, some my own fault, sometimes the car drivers fault ..this accident was just another one of those incidents but this time I broke a bone..normally I get up and cycle on...
But with the time I've had time to think back..all my bruises, front false teeth (yes!) broken kneecaps (this was the 2nd time it has happened to me, same kneecap) have been as a result of cycling in/out of Dublin...I'm 43 and I think I've had enough...
Thinking back..the amout of close calls I've had...or not being too badly injured..now am I unlucky or is it par for the course to have thse scars (after 6-7 years of cycle commuting in Dublin) I think it's safer to cycle in the direction of wicklow on an early saturday/sunday morning with a club than commute into/out of Dublin during a weekday.
Sad to say but I think I'm safer in a car..even if it means a longer commute. Any thoughts?

Beasty

Statistically, per km travelled, I am sure you are "safer" in a car. I have never been injured in a car (after 30+ years driving), but have had a couple of serious falls off my bike in the last year

However it is not all about safety. I am probably healthier now, approaching 50, than I have been throughout my life. I can't claim to have any stats on it, but I suspect my life expectancy now, cycling around 200 km per week, taking into account the risk of injury, is much longer than it was 3 years ago, when I was significantly overweight and commuting by car.

72hundred

There's an Australian study that looked at ABI and the general health of the nation when the compulsory use of helmets was brought in. It backs up Beasty's comments. From memory I believe it results stated that even though ABI's are decreased with helmets the overall fitness (read likelyhood of getting a heart attack or similar) is effect much more so. Conclusion, you're better off cycling! (You can find the article with google I'm sure!)

EDIT: ABI = Acquired Brain Injury

Lumen

jsoc wrote: »

Thinking back..the amout of close calls I've had...or not being too badly injured..now am I unlucky or is it par for the course to have thse scars (after 6-7 years of cycle commuting in Dublin)

There is a third option, which is that you're doing it wrong.

I've no idea whether that's the case, but plenty of people (myself not included) cycle for decades without incident. I don't believe luck has that much to do with it.

f1000

Have been commuting around Dublin for over a year and the only place I have had close calls is at the 5 Lamps. Has gotten to the stage now that when I approach the area I expect stupidity to happen. Majority of the time I feel safe on the roads... until a few kids on Seville Pl were using me as target practice (today).

Don't give up!

tomasrojo

72hundred wrote: »

There's an Australian study that looked at ABI and the general health of the nation when the compulsory use of helmets was brought in. It backs up Beasty's comments. From memory I believe it results stated that even though ABI's are decreased with helmets the overall fitness (read likelyhood of getting a heart attack or similar) is effect much more so. Conclusion, you're better off cycling! (You can find the article with google I'm sure!)

EDIT: ABI = Acquired Brain Injury

Dorothy Robinson's stat.s in the BMJ suggest that ABIs didn't go down either. So general heatlth took a hit without any improvement in cyclist head injury rates. ABIs only went down if you forget to factor in the drop in cyclist numbers after compulsion.

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

There is a third option, which is that you're doing it wrong.

I've no idea whether that's the case, but plenty of people (myself not included) cycle for decades without incident. I don't believe luck has that much to do with it.

Homer Simpson once wondered:

How come things that happen to stupid people keep happening to me?

Not that I'm suggesting the OP is stupid, I hasten to add! But if you find that you're constantly having accidents, try to figure out if some aspect of your behaviour on the road is contributing.

As always, I commend Cyclecraft as an invaluable source of information on best practice. Older editions are available in the public library system.

As for driving versus cycling, it seems that cyclists live about five years longer on average than motorists. That is, taking up cycling is as good for you as giving up cigarettes would be for a smoker.

tomasrojo

Beasty wrote: »

Statistically, per km travelled, I am sure you are "safer" in a car.

That is true from the stat.s I've seen. However, hazard per km travelled isn't a great metric really, since cars cover more ground per year than bikes. Better to measure per hour of exposure (i.e. per hours spent out on the road). In that metric, cycling and driving are very similar. In some jurisdictions, cycling has lower fatalities per hour of exposure than driving.

tomasrojo

Also, it must be said, occasionally suffering a minor injury is common to virtually all forms of exercise or aerobic activity. Life-changing injuries are very rarely suffered by cyclists. Even injuries that put you out of action for a few months are rare for commuting cyclists (probably not so rare for competitive cyclists or off-road cyclists).

the_syco

OP: I hear you. Used to cycle to work (when I worked nearby), or at least to the train station (if work was in Dublin) everyday, but since breaking my elbow (black ice) I don't cycle. It's weird: I went through the front window of a car when I was a kid, unconscious for three days, in hospital for two months, but was back on my bike a month after I was released. Now, over a year since breaking the arm, I've yet to back on the bike.

CramCycle

jsoc wrote: »

My first post so here goes...
While cycling to work on the 7th April last I fell off my bike..trying to avoid a car which had pulled out..I move too far to the left, hit a stationary car and fell breaking my right kneecap...who was right/wrong in this situation I'm not too clear about ..it happened too fast...

If it happened exactly like that It sounds like it was the drivers fault for not using his rearview mirrors, did you get his plate numbers?

Since there was no direct collision, without witnesses, despite it not being your fault, it's a simple case of your word against his, in which case it wouldn't go far at all (unless he admitted it somewhere by accident that he pulled out in front of you).

Sorry

Don't give up cycling though, I have had more crashes than I can remember and I wouldn't even consider , some my fault (hard to admit though it is, even i make mistakes), some not.

Gett some Hi-vis gear, so if it happens again other road users might notice it as it happens (not that it will but just in case). from personal experience, people tend to admit their fault if your suitably attired in a helmet and hi vis as it makes you look like the type of person who does not make mistakes (this has no basis in fact, just experience)

Gavin

CramCycle wrote: »

Since there was no direct collision, without witnesses, despite it not being your fault, it's a simple case of your word against his, in which case it wouldn't go far at all (unless he admitted it somewhere by accident that he pulled out in front of you).

We don't know enough, even if it happened exactly as described, to determine who's fault it was. Perhaps the OP was cycling faster than he should have been or not being as observant as he could.

I think the vast majority of 'accidents' are avoidable. Unfortunately beginner cyclists do not appear to be in the mindset of looking for and avoiding accidents. I was talking about this with a friend just the other day. We were cycling around town on the DublinBikes and she was saying how difficult she found it, intimidating with buses etc. I said she needed to be aware of what was around her, figure out when to move out and so on. She said "I don't really think like that on the bike, on a bike it is meant to be fun". There isn't a concept of thinking ahead, or prediction, it needs to be trained.

e.g

Used to cycle to work (when I worked nearby), or at least to the train station (if work was in Dublin) everyday, but since breaking my elbow (black ice) I don't cycle.

Someone might read that and say, my god cycling is dangerous, but black ice is a predictable event. Yeah you can't see it, but you know that if the temperature is below 0 and there has been rain...

Moral of the story - Cyclists need training as common sense doesn't seem to be enough, but the average cyclist doesn't even realise this.

CramCycle

CramCycle wrote: »

If it happened exactly like that It sounds like it was the drivers fault

Gavin wrote: »

We don't know enough, even if it happened exactly as described, to determine who's fault it was. Perhaps the OP was cycling faster than he should have been or not being as observant as he could.

Sorry Gavin, I just meant that in the majority of cases, be you cyclist, car, bus, nobody should be pulling out in front of you. I meant this on the basis that he was visible in the rearview mirror (should be more clear in future). A witness may have helped clarify whether the OP was in the right/wrong (speeding/coming round a corner/coming out of a blindspot to fast/not paying attention).

My personal viewpoint is that in alot of cases people on either side right/wrong tend to remember incidents with a view askew, placing themselves in a better light than is justified.

Your dead right though, a bit of common sense would go a long way for many cyclist that are out there. Case in point, did he have his indicators on, were you paying enough attention, you did say it happened to fast?

Beasty

tomasrojo wrote: »

That is true from the stat.s I've seen. However, hazard per km travelled isn't a great metric really, since cars cover more ground per year than bikes. Better to measure per hour of exposure (i.e. per hours spent out on the road). In that metric, cycling and driving are very similar. In some jurisdictions, cycling has lower fatalities per hour of exposure than driving.

My rationale was that I commute by bike as opposed to by car, and hence the mileage is, at least in theory, the same (in practice I tend to extend the bike commute significantly)

tunney

jsoc wrote: »

My first post so here goes...
While cycling to work on the 7th April last I fell off my bike..trying to avoid a car which had pulled out..I move too far to the left, hit a stationary car and fell breaking my right kneecap...who was right/wrong in this situation I'm not too clear about ..it happened too fast...
In any case , I was brought to St. Vincents , 24 hours on a trolley after being admitted to A&E, off to the operation on Thursday morning and let out of the hospital on Friday afternoon and have been recovering at home since...so have had time to think about it all...
I'm 43 and I've been cycling in and out of work for the last 3-4 years now approx...(previously I cycled in and out of Dublin when I was 18-> 23 years of age before I left to work in Germany) and in all that time,have had a few close calls and some direct hits, some my own fault, sometimes the car drivers fault ..this accident was just another one of those incidents but this time I broke a bone..normally I get up and cycle on...
But with the time I've had time to think back..all my bruises, front false teeth (yes!) broken kneecaps (this was the 2nd time it has happened to me, same kneecap) have been as a result of cycling in/out of Dublin...I'm 43 and I think I've had enough...
Thinking back..the amout of close calls I've had...or not being too badly injured..now am I unlucky or is it par for the course to have thse scars (after 6-7 years of cycle commuting in Dublin) I think it's safer to cycle in the direction of wicklow on an early saturday/sunday morning with a club than commute into/out of Dublin during a weekday.
Sad to say but I think I'm safer in a car..even if it means a longer commute. Any thoughts?

I'd agree Dublin is not a safe place to cycle in but needs must.

I got hit by a car this morning you turned right into my way because he didn't check for cyclist "Oh no cars are moving therefore nothing is moving". Unfortunately the average Irish motorist is poorly trained and, I'm beginning to think, horribly selfish.

tomasrojo

tunney wrote: »

I'd agree Dublin is not a safe place to cycle in but needs must.

I got hit by a car this morning you turned right into my way because he didn't check for cyclist "Oh no cars are moving therefore nothing is moving". Unfortunately the average Irish motorist is poorly trained and, I'm beginning to think, horribly selfish.

I'm sorry to hear you were hit. But, if I may ask, what do you mean by "hit"? Did he knock you off your bike? I hope you're ok.

As for the accident itself, I'm sure it wasn't your fault, but nevertheless it's important to show great vigilance when general traffic is stalled. My closest call was passing through a yellow box when the cars were all stopped. You have to be aware that many motorists don't expect cyclists. I go fairly slowly when traffic is stalled and keep my hands over the brakes.

I'm sure you're aware of this though.

jsoc

I opened this thread wondering if it's dangerous cycling in Dublin, am I just unlucky or just stupid?
Just to say I would consider myself an experienced commuter cyclist..having been at it the last 4 years (and for a period of years previously) and I do look ahead and calcuate what might be
coming up..the one thing I can't look out for are cars and lorries that overtake from behind and are too close to me and sometime my heart jumps when I think of the inches/centemeters the driver has left as a gap..someday I would think to myself this will be the way I'll be injured badly..or worse...anyway..
In my most recent accident..sorry if I was not clear...the car pulled out in front of me from the left..in hindsight if I had breaked very hard I may have avoided this accident..but instead I pulled to the left to avoid him but I miscalculated and hit the mirror of a parked car and flew off the bike and landed on my knee
the other accidents I've had
broken front teeth..my fault (years ago) loose mudguard locked front wheel and I flew over the handlebars
I once tried to jump at speed over train tracks (in alexander road/ docklands area) but landed in the track and lost control...just a bunch of scrapes no broken bones..so that was stupid as well
first knee accident... 20 years ago...again car from left pulled out but this time I was directly in front of him and hit me head on and they were totally at fault..at night I had a light on.
more recently I was cycling around a roundabout (monkstown farm/mountown road) and a car coming from glenageary kept going at a slow enough speed and hit me directly...I went flying but very lucky to escape without any major injurys..landed on my head..(thank you helmet)..just a few scrapes..now I'm always very wary ..staring at drivers as I cycle past....at that intersection.

Also I have a high visability jacket and helmet..I think possibly the motorist in my latest accident could not see me due to the car parked to the left that I eventually hit...or he just pulled out anyway..which has happend a few times already...

oflahero

The rules as I have wrote 'em after 17 years of no city incidents:

1. Assume no driver has seen you but however, wishes to kill you.
2. Give parked cars at least a 1 metre berth in case of suddenly-opening doors.
3. Be assertive. Take the lane in extremis if you don't feel safe, and don't let an irritated honk cow you.
4. When turning right, always take the lane, and early.
5. Don't pass anything larger than a transit van on the inside.
6. At stopped traffic lights, get a little ahead of the first car so that you can be sure traffic is aware of you.
7. Attempt to establish eye contact when approaching junctions and roundabouts.
8. Try to show drivers a bit of respect (let them pass where possible, a nod when you're given way as opposed to the standard 'beeeeeep!.... "**** off."'

I have now guaranteed that I'll be involved in a multi-vehicle pile-up en route home this evening...

tunney

tomasrojo wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear you were hit. But, if I may ask, what do you mean by "hit"? Did he knock you off your bike? I hope you're ok.

Yes - the driver turned into me, hit me and knocked me off my bike.

tomasrojo wrote: »

As for the accident itself, I'm sure it wasn't your fault, but nevertheless it's important to show great vigilance when general traffic is stalled. My closest call was passing through a yellow box when the cars were all stopped. You have to be aware that many motorists don't expect cyclists. I go fairly slowly when traffic is stalled and keep my hands over the brakes.

I'm sure you're aware of this though.

I am but no amount of awareness can compensate for sudden, ill-thought out actions of others.

Cianos

You really just have to be as alert as you can be and always err on the side of caution. Last night for example, a car pulled out from a garage up ahead of me, to go the same direction as I was. I noticed that he pulled out in to the lane a bit too wide, so I thought there's a chance the front of his car could swing back in to the cycle lane as he straightens up. If I had have maintained speed I would have been approximately where his front end would be, so I slowed down just in case. Sure enough in his haste he swung the bonnet a foot or so into the cycle lane, where I would have been if I didn't slow down.

cdaly_

jsoc wrote: »

I now I'm always very wary ..staring at drivers as I cycle past....at that intersection..

One thing I do is have flashing lights on day or night (2 front, 2 rear). At nighttime I also use a helmet mounted light so I can direct it at drivers (A flash directed at you will grab your attention). I have pretty much had nobody pull out in front of me in the last 2 years.

Until the other day when I was just nipping down the road to the bank. It was only 300 metres or so and I didn't bother putting on the lights. Coming down the hill, a car waiting to pull out from the left looked straight through me and pulled out anyway. I bet if I'd had the flashing lights on they would have waited...

Anyway, hope the knee recovers and you feel confident enough to get back on the bike again...

Turbulent Bill

jsoc wrote: »

I opened this thread wondering if it's dangerous cycling in Dublin, am I just unlucky or just stupid?
Just to say I would consider myself an experienced commuter cyclist..having been at it the last 4 years (and for a period of years previously) and I do look ahead and calcuate what might be
coming up..the one thing I can't look out for are cars and lorries that overtake from behind and are too close to me and sometime my heart jumps when I think of the inches/centemeters the driver has left as a gap..someday I would think to myself this will be the way I'll be injured badly..or worse...anyway..
In my most recent accident..sorry if I was not clear...the car pulled out in front of me from the left..in hindsight if I had breaked very hard I may have avoided this accident..but instead I pulled to the left to avoid him but I miscalculated and hit the mirror of a parked car and flew off the bike and landed on my knee
the other accidents I've had
broken front teeth..my fault (years ago) loose mudguard locked front wheel and I flew over the handlebars
I once tried to jump at speed over train tracks (in alexander road/ docklands area) but landed in the track and lost control...just a bunch of scrapes no broken bones..so that was stupid as well
first knee accident... 20 years ago...again car from left pulled out but this time I was directly in front of him and hit me head on and they were totally at fault..at night I had a light on.
more recently I was cycling around a roundabout (monkstown farm/mountown road) and a car coming from glenageary kept going at a slow enough speed and hit me directly...I went flying but very lucky to escape without any major injurys..landed on my head..(thank you helmet)..just a few scrapes..now I'm always very wary ..staring at drivers as I cycle past....at that intersection.

Also I have a high visability jacket and helmet..I think possibly the motorist in my latest accident could not see me due to the car parked to the left that I eventually hit...or he just pulled out anyway..which has happend a few times already...

I'm guessing that your road positioning may be suspect, i.e., you're too far left in the lane. This might explain being buzzed by cars and trucks, as there's just enough space for them to overtake without moving from the lane. Similarly you're far less visible to drivers entering the road from the left if you're stuck in the gutter, hence the similar incidents. It seems counterintuitive, but moving further right made for a huge reduction in the number of dodgy overtakings etc. I experienced.

As mentioned above Cyclecraft is a great reference for this, well worth a quick read while you recover!

Sorry to hear about the accident, but it shouldn't be a reason to give up completely.

Capt'n Midnight

tunney wrote: »

Unfortunately the average Irish motorist is poorly trained and, I'm beginning to think, horribly selfish.

Already this week I've been overtaken at the entrance to a roundabout and then the car turned left.

May it's conformational bias but seems to be the motorist that stops to let you across the road (whether you are in a car, bike or on foot) always seems to be the one at the end of a platoon of cars with a nice long gap after them. TBH I'd feel safer crossing after you , it would be quicker too since I wouldn't have to wait till you stopped, and if you didn't realise there was a gap behind you that I could use then I might begin to consider your suitability to be in charge of a lethal machine.

/RANT

cdaly_

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

May it's conformational bias but seems to be the motorist that stops to let you across the road (whether you are in a car, bike or on foot) always seems to be the one at the end of a platoon of cars with a nice long gap after them. TBH I'd feel safer crossing after you , it would be quicker too since I wouldn't have to wait till you stopped, and if you didn't realise there was a gap behind you that I could use then I might begin to consider your suitability to be in charge of a lethal machine.

I find I'm often that motorist. I see somebody waiting and all the cars in front keep on going. I start slowing / flash them or whatever and then notice there's nobody behind me when I'm checking mirrors as usual...

It's not that you don't notice the gap behind but that you don't have to give way to traffic behind so you don't give it as much attention as you do the rest of the traffic.

Capt'n Midnight

oflahero wrote: »

The rules as I have wrote 'em after 17 years of no city incidents:

Don't trust indicators, ever. Wait till you see the wheels turn.

Don't assume the driver has seen you unless you have made eye-contact AND their expression has changed, and not even then.

If overtaking parked cars / moving out , do so early so no sudden changes in direction. Latest leaflet says cars are supposed to give you 1.5m of clearance (yeah right). If you need to block a lane while passing an obstruction that's OK, as long as you can safely pull into the lane early.

If you get stuck behind a parked car, you'll just have to wait for a gap, hence the need to pull out early.

Try to find alternative routes with less fast traffic. You can now go from Fatima (Luas stop) to beyond Clondalkin along the Grand Canal Way. Or Islandbridge to Chapelizod along the South Bank of the Liffey,

Don't assume that you have any special rights or priveliges by being on a cycle lane

rp

jsoc wrote: »

Sad to say but I think I'm safer in a car..even if it means a longer commute. Any thoughts?

My thoughts:
Learn from the accident: what can I do in the future to ensure that I don't get hit that way again? I often think back over my commute -- where was I at risk today? What should I change about my riding/behavior to make me safer?
Commute by car for a couple of weeks, and you'll be jealous of every bike the passes you out on the journey, until you can't take it no more!
Enough about yourself, already -- how's the bike?

jsoc

rp wrote: »

Enough about yourself, already -- how's the bike?

Funny you should ask...I have not looked at her (yes you heard...her)
It's (MTB) at my parents place who went to the accident scene that evening and picked it up..was thankfully locked to a post by one of the ambulance guys.
I think it's probably not damaged at all as there was no impact to it from a moving car..my left handle bar hit off a stationay car mirror ...

As I say I'm thinking of giving up the commute but do want to get out at weekends with the club (or maybe alone now as everyone is training for W200 etc) once I'm able to get some fitness / leg flexability back.

tomasrojo

jsoc wrote: »

[...] the one thing I can't look out for are cars and lorries that overtake from behind and are too close to me and sometime my heart jumps when I think of the inches/centemeters the driver has left as a gap

I agree with the other poster that your positioning in the lane might not be optimal. Another tactic is to stare back over your shoulder at the vehicle approaching you. It usually makes them slow down, at the very least.

Definitely have a look at Cyclecraft. It's a really good book. I learnt a lot from it, and anytime I have an unpleasant incident on the road, I look in the book to see what I might have done differently. I usually find something very helpful.

@tunney, sorry to hear about the hit. I hope you're not posting from the hospital or anything.

tomasrojo

cdaly_ wrote: »

One thing I do is have flashing lights on day or night (2 front, 2 rear). At nighttime I also use a helmet mounted light so I can direct it at drivers (A flash directed at you will grab your attention). I have pretty much had nobody pull out in front of me in the last 2 years.

Similarly, I wear homemade high-visibility cuffs around my wrists during the day (I don't wear jackets or anything like that), and I pretend to scratch my arm or face when I suspect an oncoming motorist or motorist on a side road hasn't registered my approach. After doing it for a few years, I must say that it definitely seems to break up the motion camouflage and help them register you in a way wearing a Sam Browne during the day never did. Tesco sell cheap high-visibility strips and velcro. All you need. Of course, you also have to be indifferent to what you look like as well.

At night, I have wristbands with flashing yellow lights for the night time. Again, indifference to looking a bit odd helps.

jsoc

Thanks all for the tip re the Cyclecraft book. I found it on http://libcat.dlrcoco.ie/ and have it reserved, so I'll read it when it becomes available.

The experiences re close calls , are ones where lorries pass too close to me , at speed, even when no traffic is oncoming..this has happened too many times..in each case, they could easily have made the minimum 1.5 meters extra space (or whatever was quoted earlier)...why they came so close I cannot say..I can only imagine they were not paying attention or wanted to scare me...and I feel if I continue cycling commuting, someday I won't be able to write about my experience on boards.ie or perhaps I just got to get over this injury and get back on the bike asap and move over to the right a bit more :rolleyes:

blorg

jsoc wrote: »

The experiences re close calls , are ones where lorries pass too close to me , at speed, even when no traffic is oncoming..this has happened too many times..in each case, they could easily have made the minimum 1.5 meters extra space (or whatever was quoted earlier)...why they came so close I cannot say..

It sounds to me like you are riding too close to the left side of the road. If you ride in the gutter traffic will tend to pass you much closer. You need to leave a good amount of space and ride further out; traffic then tends to overtake properly.

DirkVoodoo

blorg wrote: »

It sounds to me like you are riding too close to the left side of the road. If you ride in the gutter traffic will tend to pass you much closer. You need to leave a good amount of space and ride further out; traffic then tends to overtake properly.

True. The closer I ride to the left the less room people give when overtaking. Maybe they think that you can drive within or over the white lines, but not on them. Don't be afraid of taking a bit more lane than you might think is necessary. The edge of the kerb tends to collect all the gravel and glass as well as being the site for drain and manhole covers.

mockler007

Lumen wrote: »

There is a third option, which is that you're doing it wrong.

I've no idea whether that's the case, but plenty of people (myself not included) cycle for decades without incident. I don't believe luck has that much to do with it.

if you tend to crash alot i think its time to get the bus
what do you be doing???

This plan is foolproof, leave 5 mins before or after you intend to leave and you will miss all the crashes you have..
i do.t know what your cycling style is like, maybe just get a set of good brakes. ie disks
you need a 6th sense, some cyclists have it, others dont

Deisetrek

blorg wrote: »

It sounds to me like you are riding too close to the left side of the road. If you ride in the gutter traffic will tend to pass you much closer. You need to leave a good amount of space and ride further out; traffic then tends to overtake properly.

Agree with this method , but boy do you need a hard neck sometimes . The amount of times I've been aggressively overtaken by horn bellowing , rev roaring morons 'cause they're convinced I'm too far out (3 or 4 ft?) is getting far too common . There's still a culture alive and well that we're not welcome to share road space with the motorist . BTW I always cycle alone so the two abreast argument doesn't apply to me , Oh and excuse me OP it's Waterford I'm talking about.........

beans

Deisetrek wrote: »

Agree with this method , but boy do you need a hard neck sometimes . The amount of times I've been aggressively overtaken by horn bellowing , rev roaring morons

Happened to my girlfriend and I on Sunday, on the North Circular Rd Dublin, on the stretch from the Park Gate toward Phibsboro. Happens all the time. The road is not wide enough for a bike and car to progress side-by-side, so what are you going to do?

In beeping her, this guy only succeeded in startling my friend, which was dangerous. It's too easy to say 'some people are just assh*les'. This guy hit traffic just past us, and we beat him to Phibsboro by a good 5 minutes. I resisted the urge to have a word, and just gave him the 'stop in front of him at the red / note reg / shake head slowly' treatment. Try and make him look like an unreasonable c*nt in front of the wife and kids.

SerialComplaint

There is a big problem with the way that many drivers seem to think that it is mandatory for them to overtake any cyclist in sight, regardless of the traffic and weather conditions this morning. I had an incident this morning on Richmond Avenue South in Milltown. A car overtook me, and then slowed down for speed bumps. I caught up with the car as he slowed down, and we both approached a left-hand turn side by side, with me heading straight on. He then indicated and pulled over to the left in front of me. I was half-expecting this, so I was able to brake. He somehow saw what he had done, and stopped and apologised as I went round the outside.

If he had just stopped and thought 'am I really going to save myself time by passing this cyclist', he would have made a different decision. In heavy traffic, I frequently find car drivers doing dangerously close overtakes, and then they are stuck in a line of traffic 20 yards ahead while I breeze up the inside. It would be great if we could find some way to convey to drivers that everyone might well be better off in some situations if they just hold back.

beans

SerialComplaint wrote: »

It would be great if we could find some way to convey to drivers that everyone might well be better off in some situations if they just hold back.

...without anyone getting hurt in the meantime. Stay safe and alert, that's all we can do whether we're driving or cycling. The few that act in a dangerous manner will either learn from their mistakes or be chastised for them by Garda or civilian intervention.

Who am I kidding? The Gardaí have no interest in bike / car interactions unless someone is hurt. Let drivers and cyclists know when they've f*cked up yourselves and the message will trickle through? I don't know... but as long as you're watching what you do yourself, that's a huge part of it. Like dishes in a shared sink, if you look after washing and putting away your own, those left dirty will be obvious to all. Then decide whether or not to call the lazy few on what they've done

SerialComplaint

beans wrote: »

Who am I kidding? The Gardaí have no interest in bike / car interactions unless someone is hurt.

A colleague of mine was pulled up on her bike last week by a Garda for breaking a red light.

beans

I was pulled up for cycling on a path in college, I didn't know it was against the ROTR at the time. 99 of the 100 red light jumpers I see every week just go sailing by though, there's not enough police to enforce effectively. I would question whether Gardaí would do diddly to the gent in your story above.

Possibly a cynical reading of the situation on my part

CramCycle

SerialComplaint wrote: »

He somehow saw what he had done, and stopped and apologised as I went round the outside.

If he had just stopped and thought 'am I really going to save myself time by passing this cyclist', he would have made a different decision. In heavy traffic, I frequently find car drivers doing dangerously close overtakes, and then they are stuck in a line of traffic 20 yards ahead while I breeze up the inside. It would be great if we could find some way to convey to drivers that everyone might well be better off in some situations if they just hold back.

At least he apologised, most would blame you.

SerialComplaint wrote: »

A colleague of mine was pulled up on her bike last week by a Garda for breaking a red light.

happened to me when i was younger, most Gardai don't bother as the rule of the thumb (in the old days) was that if you brought it in front of a judge he would throw it out (or a random fine) and blame the garda for wasting the courts time.

Hopefully times have changed.

Limestone1

CramCycle wrote: »

At least he apologised, most would blame you.



happened to me when i was younger, most Gardai don't bother as the rule of the thumb (in the old days) was that if you brought it in front of a judge he would throw it out (or a random fine) and blame the garda for wasting the courts time.

Hopefully times have changed.

I saw one of those cycling mountain bike Garda give chase to a young lad on a Giant TCR last week. The Garda was coming out of that new eyesore estate/business park, Elm Park near Booterstown when the roadie went through the lights. I was quite impressed that he caught him up before Vincents hospital too as he had been travelling at a decent clip. They should put little sirens on those bikes !

SerialComplaint

CramCycle wrote: »

At least he apologised, most would blame you.

True

CramCycle wrote: »

happened to me when i was younger, most Gardai don't bother as the rule of the thumb (in the old days) was that if you brought it in front of a judge he would throw it out (or a random fine) and blame the garda for wasting the courts time.

beans wrote: »

I would question whether Gardaí would do diddly to the gent in your story above.

There wasn't any question of going to court. It was a case of a 'stern talking to', which is fair enough in the circumstances.

72hundred

Limestone1 wrote: »

I saw one of those cycling mountain bike Garda give chase to a young lad on a Giant TCR last week. The Garda was coming out of that new eyesore estate/business park, Elm Park near Booterstown when the roadie went through the lights. I was quite impressed that he caught him up before Vincents hospital too as he had been travelling at a decent clip. They should put little sirens on those bikes !

That is one sprint you don't want to loose it you've given reason to start it!!!

Chris Peak

Limestone1 wrote: »

I saw one of those cycling mountain bike Garda give chase to a young lad on a Giant TCR last week. The Garda was coming out of that new eyesore estate/business park, Elm Park near Booterstown when the roadie went through the lights. I was quite impressed that he caught him up before Vincents hospital too as he had been travelling at a decent clip. They should put little sirens on those bikes !

The MET already have those to help catch commuters breaking red lights etc.
The Cycle cops also have to do courses like this... though not exactly!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP415OZ7aPw


P.S. here's an slightly off topic can of worms. http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study