I hate my parents for smoking!!!!

LegacyUser

This may sound a bit selfish, but I'm really sick of this!!!
both my parents smoke, & always have, so I've been around passive smoking all my f*cking life!! & now I'm just really concerned about my own health, I don't seem to cough or anything, but my skin looks like sh*te, I'm always pale & have huge bags under my eyes & I get a bit down looking at it.

I just don't know what to do, finacially I can't move out, & whenever I'm home, just knowing the powerlessness of it all is very upsetting.

There's no real talking them out of it. It's a little unfair.

I just don't know, I get a bit depressed , stressed, & damb right pissed off.

Thanks for reading.

Victor

Have you been able to discuss it with them. What is their reaction?

Can some sort of balance be struck? Like them only smoking outside?

tenchi-fan

smoke, smoke, ciggy, smoke, smoke wrote: »

...but my skin looks like sh*te, I'm always pale & have huge bags under my eyes & I get a bit down looking at it.

You sound really stressed out! that will do much more damage than passive smoking (possibly!). Your parents smoke, you just have to accept that. Make up for it by eating healthy and exercising.

You could come to a compromise though. Ask them not to smoke in certain rooms (e.g. the bathroom, your bedroom). If you have a spare living room in your house make it yours and do it up nice and stick a sensitive smoke alarm in it. Ask them not to smoke at certain times too (e.g. in the room during mealtimes). Or ask them to open a window when they are smoking.

It might cause a lot of hassle all round if you try to ban them from smoking altogether. It sounds like you just have a bit of a crusade on the matter and you seem to be being a bit unreasonable.

TBH I think you're being a bit dramatic, sorry. But both my parents smoked when I was growing up and I turned out just fine! I came to associate the smell of cigarettes with good things - like my mam relaxing in the kitchen or my dad staying up late to play the guitar. In all honestly I think the whole 'passive smoking' thing is BS. I mean, you live in an industrialised country. You spend all your time around vehicle exhausts, factory emissions, silage pits, etc. and you think a wee bit of cigarette smoke is going to kill you? (not just talking about you, but the passive smoking party in general)
I don't understand why something like this should cause a problem between you and your parents! Stop stressing and just let them be

sam34

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH I think you're being a bit dramatic, sorry. But both my parents smoked when I was growing up and I turned out just fine!


In all honestly I think the whole 'passive smoking' thing is BS.

so because you had no obvious ill-effects (or ones that havent yet manifested) we should disregard the scientific evidence around passive smoking?

Exile 1798

smoke, smoke, ciggy, smoke, smoke wrote: »

This may sound a bit selfish, but I'm really sick of this!!!
both my parents smoke, & always have, so I've been around passive smoking all my f*cking life!! & now I'm just really concerned about my own health, I don't seem to cough or anything, but my skin looks like sh*te, I'm always pale & have huge bags under my eyes & I get a bit down looking at it.

I just don't know what to do, finacially I can't move out, & whenever I'm home, just knowing the powerlessness of it all is very upsetting.

There's no real talking them out of it. It's a little unfair.

I just don't know, I get a bit depressed , stressed, & damb right pissed off.

Thanks for reading.

You need to get some perspective.

I too have been passive smoking since the womb. Both parents smoke, I don't.

The problems associated with passive smoking have been much hyped to the point of public hysteria. The bags under your eyes have nothing to do with your parents smoking. You seem to be using it as a scape goat for this and other problems that are real or imagined. Your health would be more affected by your obvious anxiety and stress.

Do I hate the fact that my parents smoke? Off course. Do I hate them for smoking? Off course not. They came from a time when most everyone smoked and its terrible effects were not known. Obviously they are now addicted like all smokers almost beyond escape.

I would be resentful of them if they hadn't told me that they would never allow me to start smoking. I am contemptuous of any young person, say under 30 who smokes.

LegacyUser

I think your parents and anyone that smokes around their kids is pure selfish, and I include members of my own family in that. My dad smoked for years. I developed asthma - not necessarily because of it - but the smokes definitely triggered my attacks. I asked him to smoke outside - sure it's his house etc etc and I was an adult, but my sister was still a child at the time ( large age gap). In fairness to him he did, but as soon as I was away, it was like - oh now she's gone I can smoke - he didn't seem to think my mam or my sister were affected by it. This is coming from an intelligent guy. I just don't get it. Sure ruin your own lungs etc and have loved ones worried about you, but why would you want to harm your loved ones? Anyway rant over, although I perhaps wasn't as stressed about the whole thing as you ( I just asked calmly and was thinking I might get an f off from him), but I do get your point. Of course if he wont compromise - as it's his house there'll be nothing you can do about it. Good luck

Eve_Dublin

Listen, one good thing to come of all this is now you´re completely anti-smoking and will never take it up yourself. I grew up with a dad that smoked like a chimney (40 CIGARS a day) and myself and 3 of my other siblings started young. I had the total opposite reaction to you: I thought if someone I loved and respected could smoke, then it must be okay and I continued smoking up until about 3 months ago (I´m 30 in less than a month). Take your vehement anti-smoking stance as a positive thing. I´m actually envious of people like you who were strong enough to make a stand against this filthy habit young. Count yourself lucky in that respect.

Ickle Magoo

smoke, smoke, ciggy, smoke, smoke wrote: »

This may sound a bit selfish, but I'm really sick of this!!!
both my parents smoke, & always have, so I've been around passive smoking all my f*cking life!! & now I'm just really concerned about my own health, I don't seem to cough or anything, but my skin looks like sh*te, I'm always pale & have huge bags under my eyes & I get a bit down looking at it.

I just don't know what to do, finacially I can't move out, & whenever I'm home, just knowing the powerlessness of it all is very upsetting.

There's no real talking them out of it. It's a little unfair.

I just don't know, I get a bit depressed , stressed, & damb right pissed off.

Thanks for reading.

It must be horrible to live with smokers if you find smoke very unpleasant but unfortunately as they are doing nothing illegal then there is very little you can do bar appeal to them to agree to some kind of compromise.

If your skin isn't well and you look pale with bags under your eyes, do you think you could do with eating better, getting more sleep, or even a quick check up with your doc to make sure there are no other underlying health issues.

If you think you would be much happier if you left home then make a plan how you can do that, draw a time-line you can work towards and get tore in, at least then you will feel pro-active in getting out of the situation.

Best of luck.

Denerick

I think its mad to suggest to your parents you own the house, pay the mortgage, and raised you, that they should smoke outside. What age are you OP? If you're over 18 then consider moving out, there's no way you can expect your parents to start going outside, if you were my daughter I'd laugh at such a suggestion (Unless you had a serious medical condition which came from passive smoking, in which case I'd feel very guilty )

Firetrap

In what manner have you discussed it with them? In a reasoned manner or in an over-dramatic, stressed way?

I can see where you're coming from. I hate everything to do with smoking myself but as I've gotten older I've gotten a bit more reasoned about it. I think you're seeing everything in an over-dramatic fashion. Yes, it is horrible to be in a smelly smokers house but it's not the cause of your bad skin or the bags under your eyes. Perhaps your stress is causing some of it though you might look closer to home and look at your own lifestyle. Is it as healthy as it should be?

If your parents won't stop smoking in the house, there's not a lot you can do about it only try to reach compromises. It is an addiction at the end of the day and some people just love smoking and won't ever give it up.

sam34

sam34 wrote: »

so because you had no obvious ill-effects (or ones that havent yet manifested) we should disregard the scientific evidence around passive smoking?

I'm sorry but all the 'scientific evidence' in support of passive smoking is about as reliable as that surrounding the theory of greenhouse gases. Anyone with any understanding of science would know that

Denerick

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sorry but all the 'scientific evidence' in support of passive smoking is about as reliable as that surrounding the theory of greenhouse gases. Anyone with any understanding of science would know that

Considering the overwhelming majority of scientists support the Climate Change thesis, you're kinda using a bad argument there.

Ickle Magoo

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sorry but all the 'scientific evidence' in support of passive smoking is about as reliable as that surrounding the theory of greenhouse gases. Anyone with any understanding of science would know that

Do you claim to have an understanding of science? If you did surely you would know that a theory is the pinnacle of current scientific understanding?

And you may want to forward your own hypothesis regarding passive smoking to the WHO, Royal College of Surgeons, Cancer Research, etc, etc...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/child_health/article7073204.ece

http://www.who.int/tobacco/resources/publications/wntd/2007/pol_recommendations/en/index.html

http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/types/lung/smoking/#passive

Despite an early awareness of the likely harms of secondhand smoke, the tobacco industry coordinated to engineer a scientific controversy with the aim of forestalling regulation of their products.[6] Currently, the health risks of secondhand smoke are a matter of scientific consensus, and these risks have been one of the major motivations for smoking bans in workplaces and indoor public places, including restaurants, bars and night clubs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_smoking

sam34

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sorry but all the 'scientific evidence' in support of passive smoking is about as reliable as that surrounding the theory of greenhouse gases. Anyone with any understanding of science would know that

oh really? :rolleyes:

see ickle magoo's post above

Herbal Deity

In fairness, aside from the fact that there's no citation for the claim in that wiki article, it's a matter of scientific consensus that many things are bad for us, be it alcohol, fatty foods etc., but unless I'm very much mistaken, there is no consensus as to the degree to which passive smoking is damaging to health.

I mean, while I'm not saying passive smoking is fine, there exists mass hysteria against it, and it's not as a result of people reading numerous studies and making an educated decision, it's the result of mass anti-smoking propaganda.

Tbh, I think the OP is a clear case of hysteria. I mean look at this paragraph:

smoke, smoke, ciggy, smoke, smoke wrote: »

both my parents smoke, & always have, so I've been around passive smoking all my f*cking life!! & now I'm just really concerned about my own health, I don't seem to cough or anything, but my skin looks like sh*te, I'm always pale & have huge bags under my eyes & I get a bit down looking at it.

Op, to me this just sounds like you're primarily opposed to them smoking and are trying to look for things wrong with you that you can blame them smoking on.

Ickle Magoo

Herbal Deity wrote: »

In fairness, aside from the fact that there's no citation for the claim in that wiki article

Scroll down to the references...there are too many to cite directly.

The article also states

Scientific evidence shows that exposure to secondhand tobacco smoke causes disease, disability, and death.[1][2][3][4]

And there are several citations. But by all means, yeah, hysteria.

Herbal Deity

Way to not read my reply properly, at all.

Are you honestly saying that it's likely that the OP's skin looks shíte, their skin is pale and that there are bags under her eyes as a result of her parents smoking?

Not wanting to be around smokers in a confined environment isn't hysteria. Attributing vague symptoms of unhealthiness/being run down to it is.

Ickle Magoo

Read my original post, do you think that's what I was suggesting? :cool:

Without knowing to what extent the OP has to endure second hand smoke, we really have no idea if the OP's home environment is affecting their immediate health.

cafecolour

smoke, smoke, ciggy, smoke, smoke wrote: »

both my parents smoke, & always have, so I've been around passive smoking all my f*cking life!! & now I'm just really concerned about my own health, I don't seem to cough or anything, but my skin looks like sh*te, I'm always pale & have huge bags under my eyes & I get a bit down looking at it.

I just don't know what to do, finacially I can't move out, & whenever I'm home, just knowing the powerlessness of it all is very upsetting.

I'm sorry your parents have smoked the whole time, but if you're over 18 at this point, then you can certainly try and move out. Get a job, try and get the dole, etc.

You can do your best to maintain your health despite the 2nd hand smoke. Cruciferous veg (broccoli, cabbage, etc.) have a decent amount of evidence behind them for reducing likeliness of cancer from smoking. Make sure you're getting plenty of aerobic exercise (to keep blood circulation up), eating a good diet - healthy fats imp. for skin, as is vitamin a - which is generally depleted in smoker so add in more yogurt (low-fat), carrots, etc. Drink plenty of water.

Peggypeg

Hey OP,

Unless you've been paying the mortgage it's none of your business what your parent's do in THEIR house. If you don't like it then move out, if you can't afford to pay rent rent then be thankful that your parent's have been letting you live in their house rent free. Honestly, I'd say a good hard dose of reality would do you no end of good, try moving out and living by yourself for a while. To say you HATE your parents coz they smoke makes you sound like a bad tempered 2 year old and a nasty one at that. I wonder if your mother said "I HATE this child because I've to clean up their sh*t and p*ss, listen to them cry all night, clean up after them, pay for EVERYTHING they need, bring them to school, collect them etc, etc, etc, etc", does it not worry you that you hate people that have done all that for you just because they smoke?? For your parent's sake I say move out, they'd be better off I think.

Elle Collins

smoke, smoke, ciggy, smoke, smoke wrote: »

...I'm just really concerned about my own health, I don't seem to cough or anything, but my skin looks like sh*te, I'm always pale & have huge bags under my eyes & I get a bit down looking at it.

I think you need to look at the other factors in your life that could be contributing to this OP. No way would I think it could be down to passive smoking because I have been inhaling 25+ cigarettes straight into my lungs every day for 20 years and I haven't got a single line on my face and not an eye-bag in sight.

I don't agree with most of the posters. Cigarette smoke affects everyone differently. I have always been very badly affected. I remember enduring long car journeys as a child inhaling my dad's smoke, with a splitting headache and feeling nauseous. Even now, a mere whiff of someone's cigarette on the street is enough to trigger a bad headache and cause my nose to stream all day. My dad now smokes outside all the time, if he started smoking inside, I wouldn't be able to stand being in the house. It makes me sick, full stop. I don't see why it couldn't be the cause of bad skin. Cigarette smoke is horrible for skin and you don't need to be the one smoking to be affected.

Eve_Dublin

Peggypeg wrote: »

Hey OP,

Unless you've been paying the mortgage it's none of your business what your parent's do in THEIR house. If you don't like it then move out, if you can't afford to pay rent rent then be thankful that your parent's have been letting you live in their house rent free. Honestly, I'd say a good hard dose of reality would do you no end of good, try moving out and living by yourself for a while.

Perhaps she's peed off with her situation and I can understand that. Fact of the matter is, if you choose to have children then it's up to you to provide them with the safest

I quit the fags 3 months ago and I feel very guilty for the years I inflicted my smoke on others in pubs, bars, restaurants, my home, their homes etc. It was 100% pure selfish carry on. Regardless of whether passive smoking causes damage to others is not the only reason...it's a disgusting environment for a non-smokers to be in. I don't think smokers who've never attempted quitting have any idea how unbearable it is. I live in Madrid where they haven't brought the ban in yet and I know some might say it's my choice if I want to drink in bars and eat in restaurants and if I don't like it I should stay at home blah blah blah (which I'm doing more and more often anyway) but why the hell should the rest of us have to suffer for the minority who believe it's their right to smoke wherever they please? The attitude in the post above annoys me...either put up with it or feck off! This is the OP's home and these are her parents. They DON'T have her best intentions at heart here. At the moment she has no choice to be there.

As I said in a previous post, I grew up with a dad who smoked 40 cigars a day. I'd go to school in the morning stinking of smoke (nice!), I was expected to travel in a car while my dad puffed away and I literally couldn't breathe and now I'm left with a father who suffers from two very serious smoking related illnesses and every time I hear the phone ring I wonder if it's someone calling to tell me he's dead. I don't hate him for it but I do think he acted selfishly and recklessly. When you have children (the choice of the parents, not the child) then there's certain sacrifices you have to make. People would be disgusted if they saw a pregnant woman smoke so why is it any different when they child is born?? Is your responsibility of that child reduced once you give birth? Is it really that big a deal for the parents to smoke outside?

I agree that the tone of the original post is over the top though.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I quit the fags 3 months ago and I feel very guilty for the years I inflicted my smoke on others in pubs, bars, restaurants, my home, their homes etc. It was 100% pure selfish carry on. Regardless of whether passive smoking causes damage to others is not the only reason...it's a disgusting environment for a non-smokers to be in. I don't think smokers who've never attempted quitting have any idea how unbearable it is. I live in Madrid where they haven't brought the ban in yet and I know some might say it's my choice if I want to drink in bars and eat in restaurants and if I don't like it I should stay at home blah blah blah (which I'm doing more and more often anyway) but why the hell should the rest of us have to suffer for the minority who believe it's their right to smoke wherever they please? The attitude in the post above annoys me...either put up with it or feck off! This is the OP's home and these are her parents. They DON'T have her best intentions at heart here. At the moment she has no choice to be there.

Kudos for being so honest. I don't think most smokers do realise how unbearable it is to non-smokers. I don't think we are being overly dramatic - I always wonder how on earth people feel they have the right to inflict toxic fumes on everyone around them. Why can't THEY stay at home if they want to smoke?

Elle Collins

[quote=[Deleted User];65473045]Kudos for being so honest. I don't think most smokers do realise how unbearable it is to non-smokers. I don't think we are being overly dramatic - I always wonder how on earth people feel they have the right to inflict toxic fumes on everyone around them. Why can't THEY stay at home if they want to smoke?[/QUOTE]

There's also the flipside though Bruce Sour Scoreboard, some non-smokers will actually try to suggest that you don't have a right to smoke in your own home either! I invited three girls I'd met not too long ago to my home recently for dinner and nearly died when, after dinner, they looked at me in horror as I took out my cigarettes and put out an ashtray. I knew none of them smoked so I had opened both patio door out of consideration. My dining room table is right beside the doors and yet one of them turned around to me and asked in a tone of grave concern "You're not going to smoke, are you?" I couldn't believe it - sitting right at my own bloody dining room table!!! :eek:

Eve_Dublin

Elle Collins wrote: »

There's also the flipside though Bruce Sour Scoreboard, some non-smokers will actually try to suggest that you don't have a right to smoke in your own home either! I invited three girls I'd met not too long ago to my home recently for dinner and nearly died when, after dinner, they looked at me in horror as I took out my cigarettes and put out an ashtray. I knew none of them smoked so I had opened both patio door out of consideration. My dining room table is right beside the doors and yet one of them turned around to me and asked in a tone of grave concern "You're not going to smoke, are you?" I couldn't believe it - sitting right at my own bloody dining room table!!! :eek:

Did you ask them if they minded? As a smoker I did that at least...if they DID mind, I smoked outside. They were my guests and I want them to be comfortable if I invited them to my home. I knew I'd no leg to stand on as a smoker. Elle Collins, your choosing to remain blind just to suit yourself and your addiction. The OP lives in her parents house but it's her home.

Eve_Dublin

Ex-smokers are the biggest pain in the backside, aren't they?

Hrududu

People are just selfish, its the way of the world. I too grew up in a smoking house. I had asthma too and when I made any fuss about the smoke I was told the usual "my house, my rules" stuff. Once I moved out my symptoms improved greatly.

Elle Collins

Elle Collins wrote: »

There's also the flipside though Bruce Sour Scoreboard, some non-smokers will actually try to suggest that you don't have a right to smoke in your own home either! I invited three girls I'd met not too long ago to my home recently for dinner and nearly died when, after dinner, they looked at me in horror as I took out my cigarettes and put out an ashtray. I knew none of them smoked so I had opened both patio door out of consideration. My dining room table is right beside the doors and yet one of them turned around to me and asked in a tone of grave concern "You're not going to smoke, are you?" I couldn't believe it - sitting right at my own bloody dining room table!!! :eek:

That is still rude. Just because it's your home doesn't mean you can inflict smoke on people you INVITED over. I wouldn't have said anything to you but I would have been very unimpressed at your lack of consideration towards your guests. Your smoking would still have bothered me, doors open or no doors open. I love how it's not OK to fart or stink of BO at a dinner party (even if it's at your house), but inflicting disgusting smoke on everyone is A-OK. How do you know the girl in question didn't have respiratory problems, sinus problems, migraines or any of the other billion conditions which are aggravated by cigarette smoke? Perhaps you should warn people you'll be smoking before you invite them over. I just tend to assume people don't smoke and that if they do, they do it outside.

Elle Collins

Eve Dublin and Bruce Sour Scoreboard, I have stopped smoking several times down the years so I can appreciate this situation from both sides. When I was not smoking I would regularly find myself in the company of smokers, I am especially thinking of two elderly aunts who smoke like chimneys. When I was in visiting them I would simply tolerate their cigarette smoke and say nothing, given the obvious fact that I had no right to dictate their behaviour because I was in THEIR HOMES.

You can't make rules to police other peoples behaviour in the houses they own. If you don't like it - don't visit, and if you live there yourself but are not the homeowner, the solution is simple - move out.

Exile 1798

People are projecting their own problems with smoking onto the OP.

Let's recall what she/he claimed their parents smoking was doing to them.

smoke, smoke, ciggy, smoke, smoke wrote: »

This may sound a bit selfish, but I'm really sick of this!!!
both my parents smoke, & always have, so I've been around passive smoking all my f*cking life!! & now I'm just really concerned about my own health, I don't seem to cough or anything, but my skin looks like sh*te, I'm always pale & have huge bags under my eyes & I get a bit down looking at it.

I just don't know what to do, finacially I can't move out, & whenever I'm home, just knowing the powerlessness of it all is very upsetting.

There's no real talking them out of it. It's a little unfair.

I just don't know, I get a bit depressed , stressed, & damb right pissed off.

Skin looks sh%te - Very unlikely this is anything to do passive smoking. Very likely something to do with self image, very likely there's nothing at all wrong with their skin....

I'm always pale - If you're always pale then you are of pale complexion. It's a condition otherwise known as "being Irish"

Bags under eyes - Nothing to do with passive smoking, everything to do with the obvious stress and anxiety this person feels.

This is not an case of the real problems associated with passive smoking, but of the problems associated with the hysteria around passive smoking... Rather then this being reinforced, I think this person needs to be advised to calm down and not scape goat their parents smoking for the issues she/he has with his/her appearance.

Elle Collins

Elle Collins wrote: »

Eve Dublin and Bruce Sour Scoreboard, I have stopped smoking several times down the years so I can appreciate this situation from both sides. When I was not smoking I would regularly find myself in the company of smokers, I am especially thinking of two elderly aunts who smoke like chimneys. When I was in visiting them I would simply tolerate their cigarette smoke and say nothing, given the obvious fact that I had no right to dictate their behaviour because I was in THEIR HOMES.

You can't make rules to police other peoples behaviour in the houses they own. If you don't like it - don't visit, and if you live there yourself but are not the homeowner, the solution is simple - move out.

Of course you can't make rules, but you can expect good manners, which I do. Lighting up a fag without asking your guests if it's OK, knowing they don't smoke, is awful manners. Just because other people do it doesn't make it OK. Your elderly aunts are from a generation where everyone smoked and nobody knew the dangers. It's no longer socially acceptable to whip out a pack and light up indoors, not by most people I know.

As for the OP, again, there are no rules saying her parents can't smoke in the house, but I consider it pretty crummy parenting. Just because you don't feel the effects of smoke doesn't mean she doesn't. If she is under 18, I don't think they should be forcing her to breathe their polluted air 24/7. If they were hitting her, I'm sure you'd say that was abusive, but I find forcing smoke on someone equally abusive. And probably more harmful in the long term. If she is over 18, then yes she could move out I still find it inconsiderate. I have absolute no trouble believing that bad skin and feeling rubbish could be caused by smoke, it certainly does that to me. I'd feel terrible if my actions were making someone else sick.

Elle Collins

[quote=[Deleted User];65474715]Of course you can't make rules, but you can expect good manners, which I do. Lighting up a fag without asking your guests if it's OK, knowing they don't smoke, is awful manners. Just because other people do it doesn't make it OK. Your elderly aunts are from a generation where everyone smoked and nobody knew the dangers. It's no longer socially acceptable to whip out a pack and light up indoors, not by most people I know. [/QUOTE]

Well I can accept that this is true in your life but it is not true in mine. The opposite is true among the people I know, the vast majority of them are smokers who wouldn't give a second thought to lighting up indoors.

You said earlier in the thread: "I just tend to assume people don't smoke and that if they do, they do it outside." Why on earth would you assume that people don't smoke? Or that if they do they will do so outside? Personally, when we're talking about people in their own homes, I think that's a very presumptuous assumption to make.

I wouldn't dream of considering a person to be ill-mannered for smoking in their own home, regardless whether or not I was smoking at that time. Your idea of manners and another persons may not be the same thing. It's true that my aunts came from a generation that was less aware of the dangers of smoking, but I am mid-thirties and come from a generation where it was both acceptable and legal to walk into a shop at thirteen years of age and buy a packet of cigarettes, which is exactly how I got started myself. I may give them up again at some point but if and when I do one thing I know I will not be doing is adopting the stereotypical ex-smokers attitude of trying to force an anti-smoking agenda onto everyone else.

Ickle Magoo

Elle Collins wrote: »

Well I can accept that this is true in your life but it is not true in mine. The opposite is true among the people I know, the vast majority of them are smokers who wouldn't give a second thought to lighting up indoors.

You said earlier in the thread: "I just tend to assume people don't smoke and that if they do, they do it outside." Why on earth would you assume that people don't smoke? Or that if they do they will do so outside? Personally, when we're talking about people in their own homes, I think that's a very presumptuous assumption to make.

I wouldn't dream of considering a person to be ill-mannered for smoking in their own home, regardless whether or not I was smoking at that time. Your idea of manners and another persons may not be the same thing. It's true that my aunts came from a generation that was less aware of the dangers of smoking, but I am mid-thirties and come from a generation where it was both acceptable and legal to walk into a shop at thirteen years of age and buy a packet of cigarettes, which is exactly how I got started myself. I may give them up again at some point but if and when I do one thing I know I will not be doing is adopting the stereotypical ex-smokers attitude of trying to force an anti-smoking agenda onto everyone else.

I'm mid 30's and I've never been invited to a house where the host then proceeded to light up without asking. When we invite people to our homes we make sure the house is clean, the kettle is on, there are some biccies in the tin - all for the comfort of the guest, why just throw good manners out the window when it comes to providing clean air for them?

Elle Collins

Elle Collins wrote: »

Well I can accept that this is true in your life but it is not true in mine. The opposite is true among the people I know, the vast majority of them are smokers who wouldn't give a second thought to lighting up indoors.

Obviously. Smokers tend to be friends with other smokers but the vast majority of people do not smoke.

You said earlier in the thread: "I just tend to assume people don't smoke and that if they do, they do it outside." Why on earth would you assume that people don't smoke? Or that if they do they will do so outside? Personally, when we're talking about people in their own homes, I think that's a very presumptuous assumption to make.

Because most people DON'T smoke! It's nowhere near as common and acceptable as smokers think it is. And out of those people I know who do smoke, most of them always go outside onto the balcony or into the garden because even they don't want to stink up their house.

I wouldn't dream of considering a person to be ill-mannered for smoking in their own home, regardless whether or not I was smoking at that time. Your idea of manners and another persons may not be the same thing. It's true that my aunts came from a generation that was less aware of the dangers of smoking, but I am mid-thirties and come from a generation where it was both acceptable and legal to walk into a shop at thirteen years of age and buy a packet of cigarettes, which is exactly how I got started myself. I may give them up again at some point but if and when I do one thing I know I will not be doing is adopting the stereotypical ex-smokers attitude of trying to force an anti-smoking agenda onto everyone else.

Well those girls you invited obviously found it rude. I've never smoked myself, I just hate having peoples' bad habits forced onto me. All you had to do was ask if they minded.

cafecolour

Exile 1798 wrote: »

Skin looks sh%te - Very unlikely this is anything to do passive smoking. Very likely something to do with self image, very likely there's nothing at all wrong with their skin....

I'm always pale - If you're always pale then you are of pale complexion. It's a condition otherwise known as "being Irish"

Bags under eyes - Nothing to do with passive smoking, everything to do with the obvious stress and anxiety this person feels.

This is not an case of the real problems associated with passive smoking, but of the problems associated with the hysteria around passive smoking... Rather then this being reinforced, I think this person needs to be advised to calm down and not scape goat their parents smoking for the issues she/he has with his/her appearance.

Smoke certainly could contribute to said appearance. It depletes the body's vitamin A resources, which can have a negative effect on skin. Bags under the eyes can be symptom of lack of sleep, yes, but it's also a common symptom of allergies. Smoke can significantly impair the body's ability to deal with allergens.

Of course, there are many other reasons for said appearance, and I agree the OP could quite likely entirely focused on the smoking and ignoring his/her own lack of proper nutrition, exercise, and the like - factors that would have much more impact than the 2nd hand smoke.

Really OP, as I stated before, this is essentially out of your control. You could quite likely make arrangements to move if you put some effort into it, and you can certainly do a lot to take care of your health otherwise.

Elle Collins

Well, we're obviously not going to reach a common ground here Bruce Sour Scoreboard so there's no point going in circles. I haven't seen the stats on the number of smokers/non-smokers country-wide but I seriously doubt smokers are a tiny minority. I don't know where you're coming from when you say that smokers seem to befriend each other. I've never noticed that. Anyway, most of the people I work with smoke and the majority of my family are smokers also, and you don't get to choose who you work with or are related to. Also, the government would hardly be up in arms about the multi-million (or is it billion?) euro Irish tabacoo smuggling trade if smokers were the tiny minority you're suggesting.

I've never in my life walked into somebody's home and presumed to hint at what they should or should not be doing, and I intend that I never will, regardless whether or not I'm smoking.

Elle Collins

Elle Collins wrote: »

Well, we're obviously not going to reach a common ground here Bruce Sour Scoreboard so there's no point going in circles. I haven't seen the stats on the number of smokers/non-smokers country-wide but I seriously doubt smokers are a tiny minority. I don't know where you're coming from when you say that smokers seem to befriend each other. I've never noticed that. Anyway, most of the people I work with smoke and the majority of my family are smokers also, and you don't get to choose who you work with or are related to. Also, the government would hardly be up in arms about the multi-million (or is it billion?) euro Irish tabacoo smuggling trade if smokers were the tiny minority you're suggesting.

I can't believe you're actually doubting the fact that smokers are in the minority. A quick Google will tell you that according to statistics, around 22% of Irish people are smokers. No it's not a tiny minority but look at it this way, almost 80% of people are NOT smokers. Way more logical to assume someone isn't a smoker (and especially not a heavy one who smokes indoors).

And as for being friends with smokers, it's logical. When you do something, it feels like everyone's doing it. My bf used to do cocaine and he thought almost everyone did it. Now that he no longer does it, he can see how ridiculous that thought was. It was just that he associated with other people who did it and so it seemed absolutely normal to him.

I've never in my life walked into somebody's home and presumed to hint at what they should or should not be doing, and I intend that I never will, regardless whether or not I'm smoking.

That's because you still don't seem to understand how irritating and problematic cigarette smoke is for many people. Your lighting up would have left me with a bad headache, a runny nose, scratchy throat and feeling sh1t for the rest of the day. Is that really how you want to treat your guests? It's a hell of a lot less inconvenient for you just to go outside for three minutes than for me to feel sh1t all day. I would have appreciated you asking me if I minded, so I could make myself scarce for ten minutes. That would be a display of good manners on your part.

Elle Collins

[quote=[Deleted User];65476307] I can't believe you're actually doubting the fact that smokers are in the minority. A quick Google will tell you that according to statistics, around 22% of Irish people are smokers. No it's not a tiny minority but look at it this way, almost 80% of people are NOT smokers. [/QUOTE]

I never said I doubted that smokers were a minority, I said I doubted that they were a tiny minority. And as for those figures, a huge amount of the people included in them would be children, so unless they focus only on people of 18+ those stats are more than a bit skewed.

[quote=[Deleted User];65476307]Way more logical to assume someone isn't a smoker (and especially not a heavy one who smokes indoors). [/QUOTE]

Personally I think it's logical to assume nothing and if you want to know then take the time to ask.

[quote=[Deleted User];65476307]And as for being friends with smokers, it's logical. When you do something, it feels like everyone's doing it. [/QUOTE]

I don't agree with that. I think many people I don't know smoke because I see many people I don't know smoke. It's nothing to do with what I feel; it's to do with the evidence of my own eyes.

[quote=[Deleted User];65476307]That's because you still don't seem to understand how irritating and problematic cigarette smoke is for many people. Your lighting up would have left me with a bad headache, a runny nose, scratchy throat and feeling sh1t for the rest of the day. Is that really how you want to treat your guests? It's a hell of a lot less inconvenient for you just to go outside for three minutes than for me to feel sh1t all day. I would have appreciated you asking me if I minded, so I could make myself scarce for ten minutes. That would be a display of good manners on your part. [/QUOTE]

Well in fairness I wouldn't like a person to be left in that condition on my account, but I wouldn't expect it either because I have never heard anyone list those sort of reactions to cigarette smoke. It seems tabacco smoke affects you particularly badly. Maybe you have an allergy? If I knew a person was that badly affected I'd go outside.

What I've done since the dinner I described is to serve food to guests out on my decking. No doubt at some point someone will start making eyes at me for lighting up in the open air - the day that happens I'll have a hard job not telling them to fcukoff!

Elle Collins

Elle Collins wrote: »

I never said I doubted that smokers were a minority, I said I doubted that they were a tiny minority. And as for those figures, a huge amount of the people included in them would be children, so unless they focus only on people of 18+ those stats are more than a bit skewed.

It only includes those old enough to smoke, i.e. not six year olds.

Personally I think it's logical to assume nothing and if you want to know then take the time to ask.

Of all the questions I would ask someone before I went to their house for dinner, 'are you going to light up a cigarette indoors?' would not be anywhere near the top of the list. I've been to all sorts of gatherings and dinner parties and the host has always at least asked me if it was OK to smoke. And I've lived in Spain and France where smoking is still more socially acceptable than common than it is here. I find your logic a bit odd. Yes, I expect basic manners from people. That includes many things. I assume someone will cover their mouth when they sneeze, and wash their hands before preparing dinner. Don't you?

I don't agree with that. I think many people I don't know smoke because I see many people I don't know smoke. It's nothing to do with what I feel; it's to do with the evidence of my own eyes.

Yes and again, you're noticing the smokers. When you walk down the street it looks like loads of people are smoking outside pubs. What you don't notice is the majority of people NOT smoking. The same way many people think everyone's foreign in Dublin. They notice the foreign looking people more than the white Irish who make up the vast majority of people.

Well in fairness I wouldn't like a person to be left in that condition on my account, but I wouldn't expect it either because I have never heard anyone list those sort of reactions to cigarette smoke. It seems tabacco smoke affects you particularly badly. Maybe you have an allergy? If I knew a person was that badly affected I'd go outside.

Yes, it does seem to affect me more than most, but I can tell you that it bothers almost everyone who doesn't smoke. Honestly, most smokers have no idea how truly annoying it is for non-smokers. Hardly anyone doesn't mind it at all.

What I've done since the dinner I described is to serve food to guests out on my decking. No doubt at some point someone will start making eyes at me for lighting up in the open air - the day that happens I'll have a hard job not telling them to fcukoff!

Perhaps you should reconsider hosting gatherings at your home if you know yourself that your habit is going to bother your guests.

Elle Collins

[quote=[Deleted User];65477510] I find your logic a bit odd. Yes, I expect basic manners from people. [/QUOTE]

I've already made the point that your idea of basic manners may not match another persons.

[quote=[Deleted User];65477510]Yes and again, you're noticing the smokers. [/QUOTE]

Yes and I'm noticing the non-smokers also. There are plenty of each.

[quote=[Deleted User];65477510]Honestly, most smokers have no idea how truly annoying it is for non-smokers. Hardly anyone doesn't mind it at all.[/QUOTE]

I know that Bruce Sour Scoreboard, it bothered me any time I stopped myself, but I simply never felt I had any right to tell others how to behave in their own homes, and I certainly never considered it an issue of 'manners'. To be honest I find your logic here a bit odd. You seem to be saying that we all should expect others to conform to our own personal 'manners code' - but where does that leave people when their manners codes collide? In that case, you're saying, all the people you meet should simply conform to yours? - Why?

[quote=[Deleted User];65477510]Perhaps you should reconsider hosting gatherings at your home if you know yourself that your habit is going to bother your guests. [/QUOTE]

It can't bother them that much otherwise I'm sure they wouldn't keep returning.

Elle Collins

Elle Collins wrote: »

I've already made the point that your idea of basic manners may not match another persons.

Look, there's no point going round in circles. You're right, they may not match. But you can never go wrong by being considerate to people. Asking people if they mind you lighting up is never going to be more rude than not asking, so why not ask? It's just saying 'hey, I realise you don't smoke, I realise this is probably going to annoy you, so I'm giving you a chance to go make that 'phone call' or pop to the shop for another bottle of wine or stand on the balcony for a few minutes'. It's just considerate. I'd greatly appreciate the chance to GTFO for 10 minutes rather than sit in a cloud of smoke. You're right, every person on earth may not expect it, but nobody is going to be offended because you asked. And it's no effort on your part to ask.

I know that Bruce Sour Scoreboard, it bothered me any time I stopped myself, but I simply never felt I had any right to tell others how to behave in their own homes, and I certainly never considered it an issue of 'manners'. To be honest I find your logic here a bit odd. You seem to be saying that we all should expect others to conform to our own personal 'manners code' - but where does that leave people when their manners codes collide? In that case, you're saying, all the people you meet should simply conform to yours? - Why?

Perhaps that's because you also have no issue doing it in front of your guests. I don't have any personal manners code, obviously. Manners change depending on culture, age, whatever, but the basic idea of manners is making other people feel comfortable and refraining from things which make them uncomfortable. Your guest obviously felt very uncomfortable if she actually asked if you were going to smoke (most people wouldn't actually say it, they'd just think it) and rather than examining your own manners and wondering if you were being rude, you decided she had a nerve for expecting you not to smoke.

I'm not going to repeat myself again and again. The fact is, most people do NOT smoke. 80% of the population do not smoke cigarettes, ever. Most people do not expect other people to light up indoors at a gathering. If you disagree with me, fine, but that's how I see things as a non-smoker. There is always a smoker or two at a large dinner party, and without exception I've always seen them go outside to smoke, even when it was their house. So back to the original point, I see nothing rude about expecting someone not to smoke in their own home if they've invited guests over.

Elle Collins

[quote=[Deleted User];65496330] I see nothing rude about expecting someone not to smoke in their own home if they've invited guests over.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I know, and you see nothing presumptuous about it either, which is totally beyond me. I guess we'll both just have to thank our lucky stars you're not on your way over to mine for dinner!

Herbal Deity

[quote=[Deleted User];65496330]80% of the population do not smoke cigarettes, ever. [/QUOTE]
Just on this. I would say a much higher percentage of people smoke now and then, but wouldn't classify themselves as "smokers". I mean if you have a couple on the odd weekend, you're not going to call yourself a smoker.

The divide isn't as clear cut as 20:80, regular smokers : people who would never, ever touch a cigarette.

And following on from that, 80% of people won't be extremely insulted or bothered by someone smoking in their own home. In fact, I reckon nothing close to that percentage would be. Some people find smoking extremely unpleasant, but I think they're a minority.

Nevyn

The PI forum is NOT debate it is for offering help and advice to posters when they start a thread. Any more posts which are deemed not helpful and off topic will result in bans.

LegacyUser

I think I got a fair bit of info anyway.

I'll have a chat with them & see what happens.
Thanks everyone.

StormWarrior

OP, I used to have the same problem, my dad smoking in the house constantly, and I found it unbearable. I was too young to move out then. I just nagged and complained about it constantly and eventually it worked, and he always went out to the garden to smoke from then on. Have you explained to your parents how unbearable it is for you to live like that? If you tell them that you are seriously considering moving out because of it (even if you're not), maybe they will understand. If you are at college or whatever, explain that you may have to quit studying to get a job to support yourself because of this. It's not asking much for someone to just step outside for a smoke, the smokers I've known who switched to smoking outside ended up not wanting smoke inside their homes any more either when they realised the difference. I don't know how old you are or anything like that, but if you end up having kids, I'm sure like any responsible person you wouldn't take them to a house that was full of cigarette smoke, so your parents would never be allowed to have their grandchild at their house. Just explain to them the long-term repercussions of their selfish, disgusting habit and let them know it can all be avoided by just stepping outside when they want a smoke.

Limerick Dude

smoke, smoke, ciggy, smoke, smoke wrote: »

This may sound a bit selfish, but I'm really sick of this!!!
both my parents smoke, & always have, so I've been around passive smoking all my f*cking life!! & now I'm just really concerned about my own health, I don't seem to cough or anything, but my skin looks like sh*te, I'm always pale & have huge bags under my eyes & I get a bit down looking at it.

I just don't know what to do, finacially I can't move out, & whenever I'm home, just knowing the powerlessness of it all is very upsetting.

There's no real talking them out of it. It's a little unfair.

I just don't know, I get a bit depressed , stressed, & damb right pissed off.

Thanks for reading.

I smoke about 20 cigarettes a day, i have pretty good skin, im quite tanned and i dont have any bags under my eyes.....I think you should stop blaming your problems on passive smoking and go to a doctor because you probably have some underlying health condition.

P.S Only saw the mod warning now, my bad!

RandolphEsq

Your parents seem to have the typical selfish attitude that most smokers carry with themselves. It is bad enough that smoking is legal but to pollute their own house, where children are growing up, is just not on

Idbatterim

Op for what its worth I totally agree with you, its a disgusting, vile & offensive, health damaging habit! My bro and I have grown up massively anti smoking, primarily due to my dad. Thank god given the laws now, that we non smokers can choose not to have our health desroyed!1