Dissident breakaway green party?

Amhran Nua

Anyone heard of these guys before?

Emerald Forum, a new social ecology/social justice political initiative will be holding their next meeting in the Teachers Club, Parnell Sq, 12pm, Saturday,
26th June.

The purpose of this meeting and forum is to set up an alternative left/green/social ecology/social justice/democratic decentralised Federation - an umbrella for small like-minded parties to come together with a view to registering as a political entity and accessing funding to put forward candidates at General Election. To register as a political party, you must have 300+ members. We realise that there are a number of smaller groups which could come together with an agreed set of principles and policies under the one umbrella such as this, while still retaining their own identity. The name of this Federation has yet to be decided.

Our plan is to have a decentralised structure, whereby representatives would be selected by each constituency group to formulate policies in all policy areas. Each policy group would select their own National Spokesperson. The position of representative and spokesperson would be held for one year only - but could be re-elected (or not) depending on the support they receive from their constituency group. This self-regulating mechanism ensures greater accountability to the grass roots.

At the moment, we are putting together our Manifesto, which will be ready for adoption and/or amendments at our June meeting

All welcome (except messers). If you are interested in joining our forum, email your details and interests to emeraldforum@gmail.com

My guess is its yet another cynical entryist attempt by the SWP, the spammers of Irish politics, to sweep up disaffected green party members. The politicalworld.org site owner has been talking about a "far left alliance" as well, so hmm. Alternately it might possibly be the real deal.

bijapos

Amhran Nua wrote: »

My guess is its yet another cynical entryist attempt by the SWP, the spammers of Irish politics, to sweep up disaffected green party members. The politicalworld.org site owner has been talking about a "far left alliance" as well, so hmm. Alternately it might possibly be the real deal.

No, it isn't the SWP, nothing to do with them actually. They are former Green Party members, some former GP councillors, some former activists and other members who have left at various stages since June 2007. More like the "real deal" as you put it. Should be interesting to see what they come up with in June.

Amhran Nua

bijapos wrote: »

No, it isn't the SWP, nothing to do with them actually. They are former Green Party members, some former GP councillors, some former activists and other members who have left at various stages since June 2007. More like the "real deal" as you put it. Should be interesting to see what they come up with in June.

Name names, evidence, links, anything?

bijapos

Pat Kavanagh, Wicklow Town Councillor...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0328/breaking24.html

Some of the Donegal Greens who broke away last year...

http://donegalgreens.com/?m=200911



Care to let us know why you think the SWP are involved?:rolleyes:

Amhran Nua

bijapos wrote: »

Pat Kavanagh, Wicklow Town Councillor...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0328/breaking24.html

Some of the Donegal Greens who broke away last year...

http://donegalgreens.com/?m=200911

I don't see any connection between those newspaper articles and this new group. Can you substantiate that any of the people you have mentioned are part of this? In fact can you clarify your involvement?

bijapos wrote: »

Care to let us know why you think the SWP are involved?:rolleyes:

I don't think they are involved, I suspect it for several reasons - experience in dealing with them, that this first cropped up on an unknown and minor website whose owner is pretty far left, and the peculiar mention of "ecology" alongside "socialist principles", which is odd because the science of ecology has nothing to do with politics, but might be a buzzword someone who didn't know what they were talking about might bandy about in an effort to appeal to a certain demographic.

With that said, I'm interested in this new group, and quite open to the possibility that it is genuinely what it claims to be. I've also contacted a couple of senior members of the green party who I know to get a bit of feedback on the situation, and if they pass back any information I'll post it here.

bijapos

the peculiar mention of "ecology" alongside "socialist principles", which is odd because the science of ecology has nothing to do with politics,

Sorry this isn't very clear. Where is this mentioned?

As regards buzzwords like "ecology", every party is using them, how serious they are on eciology and environment is another matter.


To answer the question on my involvement, I have been in touch with some of the people involved, like they said they are drawing up policies and a structure, they do not as yet have a spokesperson, so I don't think it is in anybodys interest if I start talking for them.

All I know is that the SWP are not definitley not involved in setting this up.

Pat Kavanagh was at the GP convention in Waterford and she spoke with a number of people on this. I guess the only thing to do is register with them or wait till June. A lot of people are talking about setting up a new party seems yourself and these have actually done (or are doing) so.

Amhran Nua

bijapos wrote: »

Sorry this isn't very clear. Where is this mentioned?

First sentence, "social ecology", whatever that is.

bijapos wrote: »

To answer the question on my involvement, I have been in touch with some of the people involved, like they said they are drawing up policies and a structure, they do not as yet have a spokesperson, so I don't think it is in anybodys interest if I start talking for them.

Sure, how did you hear about them or get in contact with them?

bijapos wrote: »

Pat Kavanagh was at the GP convention in Waterford and she spoke with a number of people on this. I guess the only thing to do is register with them or wait till June.

Pat's a public representative, can we get her to come in here and make a comment or two for the public? Things are in the formative stages, but surely there must be something more substantial than what we have already.

bijapos

First sentence, "social ecology", whatever that is.

No, you said "socialist principles". I want to know where you got "socialist principles" from. Not mentioned anywhere. If its a misquote its a blatant misquote.

Sure, how did you hear about them or get in contact with them?

Through people in the GP who were against NAMA, some who left as a result of the NAMA vote.

Pat's a public representative, can we get her to come in here and make a comment or two for the public? Things are in the formative stages, but surely there must be something more substantial than what we have already.

No idea, ask her. They haven't publicised it big time so I guess they are waiting until they have spokespeople, defining principles, structure, policies set up.

Amhran Nua

bijapos wrote: »

No, you said "socialist principles". I want to know where you got "socialist principles" from. Not mentioned anywhere. If its a misquote its a blatant misquote.

Alright so, tell us where does the "alternative left" stand as far as socialist principles go?

bijapos wrote: »

No idea, ask her. They haven't publicised it big time so I guess they are waiting until they have spokespeople, defining principles, structure, policies set up.

You've already said specifically that she is involved in this, as well as those few in Donegal. I see no evidence of that whatsoever except your anonymous word for it, can you substantiate anything? In fairness you've already started talking for them and made a few claims as well.

bijapos

Alright so, tell us where does the "alternative left" stand as far as socialist principles go?

Haven't a clue where you're going with this. I am not the "alternative left", I've no idea why you are asking me this unless you want to deflect from your misquote above. The question sounds like it belongs in the political theory thread.

You've already said specifically that she is involved in this, as well as those few in Donegal. I see no evidence of that whatsoever except your anonymous word for it, can you substantiate anything? In fairness you've already started talking for them and made a few claims as well

I am not talking for them, I know some who are involved, I gave you media links to Pat Kavanagh and the Donegal Greens and their desire to set up a new grouping, if you need to know more contact them yourselves at the link in your OP. If you do not believe me, fair enough.




Your OP asks if anyone knows them, I said I do, then you put this nonsense up that I am "talking for them and make claims for them". Apart from that you say I have no evidence except my "anonymous word" for it. Be serious, if thats how you are going to treat answers then there isn't much point in posting an OP like that. I could just as easily ask : "Who are you? You claim to be Amhran Nua but apart from a link in your sig there is no evidence!"

Going on what you said above, anyone here could post up saying they are involved in emerald forum and you could just as easily say "on no you're not". Hardly a very mature form of discussion.

Amhran Nua

bijapos wrote: »

I am not talking for them, I know some who are involved, I gave you media links to Pat Kavanagh and the Donegal Greens and their desire to set up a new grouping,

So no substantiation that they are behind this then? If they are well and good, but most people would like to know more.

bijapos wrote: »

Your OP asks if anyone knows them, I said I do, then you put this nonsense up that I am "talking for them and make claims for them". Apart from that you say I have no evidence except my "anonymous word" for it. Be serious, if thats how you are going to treat answers then there isn't much point in posting an OP like that. I could just as easily ask : "Who are you?

Hi, my name is Ronan Burke, and I'm in Galway. Who are you? See how easy that was - transparency isn't hard to do, and I think the Irish people have had enough of murky agendas.

bijapos wrote: »

You claim to be Amhran Nua but apart from a link in your sig there is no evidence!"

My phone number is at the other end of that link, feel free to give me a buzz.

bijapos wrote: »

Going on what you said above, anyone here could post up saying they are involved in emerald forum and you could just as easily say "on no you're not". Hardly a very mature form of discussion.

But you are continually stating that you aren't involved. What would be nice to see would be some information, a website, a public figure making a statement for this group which is already soliciting membership.

I guess time will tell one way or the other. I'll keep the thread updated in any case.

IrishTonyO

Amhran Nua wrote: »

So no substantiation that they are behind this then? If they are well and good, but most people would like to know more.


Hi, my name is Ronan Burke, and I'm in Galway. Who are you? See how easy that was - transparency isn't hard to do, and I think the Irish people have had enough of murky agendas.


My phone number is at the other end of that link, feel free to give me a buzz.


But you are continually stating that you aren't involved. What would be nice to see would be some information, a website, a public figure making a statement for this group which is already soliciting membership.

I guess time will tell one way or the other. I'll keep the thread updated in any case.

Maybe you did not notice but the message board link in the OP was posted only yesterday, so to me it looks like it is it's very initial stages. I don't see why you would expect websites etc when they are seeing if people are interested and just starting off. For example on your own website there is lots of missing information and lack of policies. Give them a chance to get started.

Amhran Nua

IrishTonyO wrote: »

For example on your own website there are lots is lots of missing information and lack of policies.

While other people are telling us we have too much...

CFlower

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Anyone heard of these guys before?

My guess is its yet another cynical entryist attempt by the SWP, the spammers of Irish politics, to sweep up disaffected green party members. The politicalworld.org site owner has been talking about a "far left alliance" as well, so hmm. Alternately it might possibly be the real deal.

My first knowledge of this group is when a Site Member posted about it on our forum, Political World. It's the fourth new group that has posted on our site in two months. I think even the SWP would find it hard to keep up with that. I think its a sign of the times and not surprising. My understanding from Murra is that the group has met a number of times, is open to new groups and individuals affiliating, will be federal in structure but is working on some kind of umbrella policy.

They are planning a meeting in June that's advertised in our calendar.

There is very obviously a high level of dissatisfaction with the current mainstream parties, particularly in relation to the banks and the public services and there's also a well known drift away from the Green Party by "traditional Greens". Your Party was "first off the blocks", if you discount Libertas, in trying to develop alternative political platforms.

Our site, you probably know, is a broad political forum and people across the spectrum post there - http://www.politicalworld.org/

Every site administrator has political views and I'm upfront about mine. I don't have any connection with this new group, but welcome political debate and engagement from all quarters.

Scofflaw

While we welcome posters representing Ireland's new parties, it should be obvious that the representative of one new party doesn't get to decide who does or doesn't represent another such.

moderately,
Scofflaw