US accuses Goldman Sachs of fraud

IrishTonyO

The US government has accused Goldman Sachs of fraud over the dealing with sub prime mortgages.

"Goldman itself profited by betting against the very mortgage investments that it sold to its customers. "


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/17/business/17goldman.html?hp

ei.sdraob

took them long enough

silverharp

ei.sdraob wrote: »

took them long enough

knowing GS, they are probably shorting their own stock:D

Sand

Goldman Sachs are very good at what they do, which is whatever pays the most. They may have overplayed their hand a little in this case, but they have good lawyers and they donate to the Democrats and the Republicans so theyre probably safe as houses. The GS executive may get thrown to the baying mob, but thats about as far as it will go.

Nodin

IrishTonyO wrote: »

The US government has accused Goldman Sachs of fraud over the dealing with sub prime mortgages.

"Goldman itself profited by betting against the very mortgage investments that it sold to its customers. "


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/17/business/17goldman.html?hp

A civil suit though, not a criminal prosecution.

northwest100

strange ...considering

Timothy Geithner, currently the US treasury secretary and former president of the federal reserve..also good friend of Goldman Sachs.

Henry Paulson, previously served as US treasury secretary, previously chairman and CEO of Goldman Sachs...replaced by ...

Lloyd Blankfein who believes Goldman Sachs and other market speculators are "doing God's work"

Ben Bernanke, currently the chairman of federal reserve and good friend of Henry Paulson and of course, Goldman Sachs.

Stephen Friedman, former chairman of new york federal reserve who still serves on board of Goldman Sachs after most of his career spent working for them.

William Dudley, worked 21 years at Goldman Sachs, succeeded Tim Geithner as President of the New York Federal Reserve in 2009.

Josh Bolten, worked 5 years at Goldman Sachs, became White House Chief of Staff for George W. Bush.

Arthur Levitt Jr. former and longest serving chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission [S.E.C.] Chairman and senior advisor to the Carlyle Group began advisory role with Goldman Sachs in June 2009.

read here for whole list

if there were any doubt who's really in charge of usa, just read a little about these people and it becomes crystal clear.

Sand wrote:

Goldman Sachs are very good at what they do, which is whatever pays the most.

don't you mean they're good at fraud? stealing..scamming, that kind of thing?
the kind of crimes any other person would get life in jail for..yeah, they're good at destroying peoples lives.

steelcityblues

Look who got a lovely donation from them a few years ago:


"Their analysis of the 2008 presidential campaign found that University of California employees were Obama's top donor, giving a collective $1.6 million. That system is run by the state of California, and hence is a public employer.
No. 2 was Goldman Sachs. Goldman employees gave Obama $994,795."

Full article here:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/25/michael-moore/barack-obama-goldman-sachs-campaign-contributions/

evercloserunion

steelcityblues wrote: »

Look who got a lovely donation from them a few years ago:


"Their analysis of the 2008 presidential campaign found that University of California employees were Obama's top donor, giving a collective $1.6 million. That system is run by the state of California, and hence is a public employer.
No. 2 was Goldman Sachs. Goldman employees gave Obama $994,795."

Full article here:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/25/michael-moore/barack-obama-goldman-sachs-campaign-contributions/

Considering how rich they are I'd be asking for a lot more than $1mil in return for getting them out of this one.

PeakOutput

steelcityblues wrote: »

Look who got a lovely donation from them a few years ago:


"Their analysis of the 2008 presidential campaign found that University of California employees were Obama's top donor, giving a collective $1.6 million. That system is run by the state of California, and hence is a public employer.
No. 2 was Goldman Sachs. Goldman employees gave Obama $994,795."

Full article here:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/25/michael-moore/barack-obama-goldman-sachs-campaign-contributions/

now look at how much goldman gave the republicans in the same election

i cant remember exactly but i remember reading / hearing that they backed the republican for quite a while and then when it looked like obama had a chance they quickly made some donations to him aswell

IrishTonyO

PeakOutput wrote: »

now look at how much goldman gave the republicans in the same election

i cant remember exactly but i remember reading / hearing that they backed the republican for quite a while and then when it looked like obama had a chance they quickly made some donations to him aswell

Goldman cover themselves as they donate to both sides always

steelcityblues

PeakOutput wrote: »

now look at how much goldman gave the republicans in the same election

i cant remember exactly but i remember reading / hearing that they backed the republican for quite a while and then when it looked like obama had a chance they quickly made some donations to him aswell

They are an equal political opportunities fraudulent banking company:p

DERICKOO

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Goldman cover themselves as they donate to both sides always

saw this coming by a mile.
tried to start a tread but it was closed????:eek:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/;kw=[3351,11459];jsessionid=2049A274F095F3011DE8362091478785

and link to tread..
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055809066

DERICKOO

sorry link not working search politics/ economy.
The Great American Bubble Machine

From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again.

silverharp

EU Sues Goldman Over Volcanic Ash Fallout


BRUSSELS—European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso announced late Sunday that the European Union has filed suit against investment banking giant Goldman Sachs for the fallout of ash from Iceland’s Eyjafjallajökull volcano. The volcanic ash, which has blanketed the skies over most of Europe for the last four days, has grounded almost all European air traffic, stranding travelers and disrupting economic activity throughout the European Union.
In a statement delivered in Romansh, the official EU language of the month, Barroso said, “We have uncovered evidence that this so-called ‘natural disaster’, which is costing the EU hundreds of millions of Euros, is in fact an Act of Goldman, and we intend to hold the Zionist-American cabal in charge of the firm accountable.” “First the profligate Americans drag the world into a near-depression and now they crap all this ash on us. Who the hell do they think they are?” added Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou from Athens, where he was chairing a conference on Greek sovereign debt entitled, “How American Speculators Forced Us to Cook the Books, Lie to Our European Partners, and Pretend We Don’t Need A Massive Bailout”.
The EU complaint alleges that Goldman operated a proprietary wind-blowing strategy to direct the volcano’s ash into Europe’s stratosphere. Goldman is accused of profiting from the fallout by buying complex Flight Cancellation Swaps that are netting Goldman millions of dollars every time another European flight is cancelled. The complaint cites a smoking gun email from Francois Tubbey, a 16-year old Goldman vice president, to an unidentified woman at “i@&$*edTiger@gmail.com” stating, “That’s right, baby, Fat Franky’s in charge of the weather.”
Several European banks who are counterparties to the FCS’s are alleged to be suffering billions in losses with no end in sight, apparently because they continue to sell the FCS’s to Goldman. Reached for comment, the Chairman of Royal Bank of Scotland, one of the counterparty banks, said, “Yes, we know almost all European flights are cancelled, but our advisor is Goldman Sachs, and they keep urging us to sell these FCS’s to them, so we do. We intend to hold them fully responsible.”
Goldman issued a statement saying that it intends to “vigorously defend itself,” adding that the EU’s charges are “unfounded in meteorology and probably also in fact.”
In a related development, the InterGovernmental Panel on Climate Change said today it is considering investigating Goldman’s role in climate change. “We’re going to get the documents, proceed cautiously, and determine precisely when Goldman started melting the Polar icecaps.”

IrishTonyO

The British regulator has now started fraud enquires into Goldman Sachs as well.

Sand

don't you mean they're good at fraud? stealing..scamming, that kind of thing?

Yeah, I was making the point theyre pretty amoral. Not evil - they exist for one purpose, to make profit. Basically their own profit first, then their shareholders (if theres anything left over after theyve taken their cut) and then in a distant third their clients - or at least some of them.

Morality doesnt enter into it. If you wanted to invest in child slavery in the third world, Goldman Sachs could probably whip together some sort of derivative which would amount to a short on the human rights index of a bucket of third world countries. Whilst probably claiming tax breaks for investing in human rights. Christ knows, they probably already do.

But lets be clear here - Goldman Sachs are very, very good at what they do. They give the client what they want - and what clients like the Greek Government wanted was a way to hide from the reality of their debts through a few accounting tricks and obfuscation. Goldman Sachs didnt act as the moral referee of a sovereign government and say "No Sir...Goldman Sachs is too honourable to take your money for this low and deceitful act!" Thats their failing.

But if we are relying on amoral, profit driven, souless monsters like Goldman Sachs Inc. to police the morality of our publically elected representitives then it doesnt say a whole lot for the morality in State governance or public representitives in general. Dont blame the prostitute for meeting the demand.

if there were any doubt who's really in charge of usa, just read a little about these people and it becomes crystal clear.

You talk about the USA like its a corner store - its a country of 300 million people, an economic, military and cultural superpower of a scale that many people still find difficult to grasp. Its not some mom and pop operation. Nobody runs it in the manner you imagine.

silverharp

A short piece here with Janet Tavakoli ripping them a new one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiwZ2LfOO-c

northwest100

IrishTonyO wrote:

The British regulator has now started fraud enquires into Goldman Sachs as well.

Bit of a red herring really, UK elections are approaching.
Gordon Brown was Chancellor of the Exchequer for 10 years and all of a sudden he's "shocked" at how GS operated..yeah right.

Tony Blair, ex-UK PM and now Senior advisor to JP Morgan and Chase bank is no doubt also "shocked"

Sand wrote:

Yeah, I was making the point theyre pretty amoral. Not evil - they exist for one purpose, to make profit. Basically their own profit first, then their shareholders (if theres anything left over after theyve taken their cut) and then in a distant third their clients - or at least some of them.

You don't think what Goldman Sachs did was immoral in any way?
Tell that to american people now living in tents because they couldn't afford to pay their mortgages.

I've no doubt you'll argue it was their own fault for getting a loan they couldn't afford to pay back.

But we all know banks were more than happy to give it away in the first place.

Sand wrote:

But lets be clear here - Goldman Sachs are very, very good at what they do. They give the client what they want - and what clients like the Greek Government wanted was a way to hide from the reality of their debts through a few accounting tricks and obfuscation. Goldman Sachs didnt act as the moral referee of a sovereign government and say "No Sir...Goldman Sachs is too honourable to take your money for this low and deceitful act!" Thats their failing.

By your logic so far, people who distribute and sell child porn are also amoral because they're simply meeting a demand for it.

Goldman Sachs had a motive for helping Greece hide their debt.
GS were setting up the Euro for collapse because they view it as a threat to the Dollar and US hegemony.

If you dismiss it as just a conspiracy theory, who do you think are shorting Greek Bonds right now?

You think George Soros continually talking about the death of the Euro isn't a little bit fishy?
This is the same guy who is betting Euro will collapse and collect billions as a result when it eventually does.

After Greece, who's next? Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy?..perhaps the UK? who will the speculators attack next?

Lloyd "I'm doing God's work" Blankfein pocketed a $100 million bonus in 2010 and what did he do exactly?
His company just robbed the pensions of millions of hard working decent people and you don't think there's anything wrong with that?

After all, it's just supply and demand.

Sand wrote:

You talk about the USA like its a corner store - its a country of 300 million people, an economic, military and cultural superpower of a scale that many people still find difficult to grasp. Its not some mom and pop operation. Nobody runs it in the manner you imagine.

I think it's you and a few others on these forums who have a difficult time grasping the reality of the US empire's diminishing influence over the world today.

Last time I checked, Ronald Reagan wasn't the president, 'The breakfast club' and 'Goonies' aren't currently box office hits, they do not make 'A-Team'...but of course, it's not 1985, is it?

Sand wrote:

But if we are relying on amoral, profit driven, souless monsters like Goldman Sachs Inc. to police the morality of our publically elected representitives then it doesnt say a whole lot for the morality in State governance or public representitives in general. Dont blame the prostitute for meeting the demand.

I don't recall Tim Geithner or Henry Paulson being voted for in any election.

Sand

You don't think what Goldman Sachs did was immoral in any way?

I think they're amoral. I think theyre a corporation set up with the sole purpose of making as much money as possible, with little more than a superficial interest in maintaining a PR front referred to a "corporate citizenship". That doesnt make them Greenpeace, but it doesnt make them the Nazis either.

I'm not sure what else youre looking for?

Tell that to american people now living in tents because they couldn't afford to pay their mortgages.

I've no doubt you'll argue it was their own fault for getting a loan they couldn't afford to pay back.

Was it your fault then?

On a personal level, people are responsible for taking out the loans they choose to take out. Rest easy however - bankruptcy law is a lot kinder in the US, most homeowner can simply walk away from their mortgages if they are unable to repay and restart afresh.

Also, Goldman Sachs are an investment bank - they dont offer residential mortages so they didnt force anyone to take a loan they couldnt repay, but they did take bets on the probability of those mortgages being repaid. Bastards.

But we all know banks were more than happy to give it away in the first place.

And at a systematic level, banks do bear responsibility for their decisions to lend money. They are sophisticated economic agents with a much more objective view of the market and trends than the average person who has simply set their heart on some house they cant afford.

But again, Goldman Sachs is an investment bank. They took bets on the subprime market, but they didnt create it. Again, that was created by a number of political (populist politics incentivising subprime lending, particularly fannie mae and freddie mac which offered a limitless demand for as much crap as subprime lenders could feed it), economic (unleashing cheap money to combat the dot com and 9/11 "wobbles") and social factors (understandable urge to buy a bit of the dream by many ordinary people).

And perhaps most reassuringly, they didnt require a bailout - if we deride banks that are run into the ground and are bailed out at great expense, surely the likes of Goldman Sachs deserve some credit for at least being run efficiently.

SeanW

Minor point: Goldman Sachs got a bailout by the back door. When AIG was bailed out (which was a mistake IMO at best) they got more money than they needed but with the provisio that a number of derivitave holders be paid 100 cents on the dollar for all the derivatives they owed. Guess who were one of the biggest holders of AIGs derivitaves? ... Goldman Sachs. Same company that has former executives occupying positions such as the NY Federal Reserve, the Treasury dept, etc.

DERICKOO

How Goldman Sachs Screwed Ghana.

Ashanti was driven to bankruptcy and sold to AngloGold. What really gets at the Ghanaian author and several hundred commenters is that every character in the story, down to the British gold company, was represented by Goldman Sachs. Of course, there's nothing necessarily illegal about betting against a client -- Ghana or ACA. It depends on the exact circumstances. But this is the aspect of the that will piss off past and future clients.:rolleyes:

http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/artikel.php?ID=180487


Goldman SEC charges



that will piss off past and future clients.:P

DERICKOO

Somali Pirates Say They Are Subsidiary of Goldman Sachs
Could Make Prosecution Difficult, Experts Say

NORFOLK , VIRGINIA – Eleven indicted Somali pirates dropped a bombshell in a U.S. court today, revealing that their entire piracy operation is a subsidiary of banking giant Goldman Sachs.

There was an audible gasp in the courtroom when the leader of the pirates announced, "We are doing God's work. We work for Lloyd Blankfein."
The pirate, who said he earned a bonus of $48 million in dubloons last year, elaborated on the nature of the Somalis' work for Goldman, explaining that the pirates forcibly attacked ships that Goldman had already shorted.
"We were functioning as investment bankers, only every day was casual Friday," the pirate said.
The pirate acknowledged that they merged their operations with Goldman in late 2008 to take advantage of the more relaxed regulations governing bankers as opposed to pirates, "plus to get our share of the bailout money."
In the aftermath of the shocking revelations, government prosecutors were scrambling to see if they still had a case against the Somali pirates, who would now be treated as bankers in the eyes of the law.
"There are lots of laws that could bring these guys down if they were, in fact, pirates," one government source said. "But if they're bankers, our hands are tied."

IrishTonyO

The UK started proceedings today

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0420/breaking12.html