who is saved, and who isn't?

the_dark_side

quick question carried over from another thread, it thought would be worthy to start a new thread with this....

example 1: A Christian who has done alot of wrong, has harmed people in his/her life and who has had dodgy business affairs in their past, but who still attends church, and who has confessed etc.

example 2: A person not associated to any church or religion... more or less because they were never directed towards any religious institution (I know of these people), who haved lived exempilary lives...who are good company and who you would trust with your life.

does example 1 achieve 'saved' status over our second example....if the answer is yes, then why?
Is example 2 damned because they are non practicing?

PDN

My understanding is that salvation is a result of putting your faith in Jesus Christ, not a reward for what kind of life you've lived. It's about accepting what Jesus has done for you, not about what you have done.

Think of it this way. Which person is most likely to make it across the Atlantic tomorrow?

a) The person who has trained very hard at the long jump, has never done anything to hinder their jumping abilities, and is going to do their level best to jump all the way from Clifden to Boston. An exemplary long jumper!

b) The person who has skipped their long jump training, eats all kinds of fattening food, but has realised that they are incapable of jumping across an ocean and have instead purchased a ticket with Delta Airlines for the 10.20am Dublin to Atlanta flight.

mark renton

I'm sure when/if it comes to judgement day then whoever is at the pearly gates will have a quantifiable method to justify such decisions...

if not then who knows, maybe Hell wont be such a bad place

kelly1

the_dark_side wrote: »

quick question carried over from another thread, it thought would be worthy to start a new thread with this....

example 1: A Christian who has done alot of wrong, has harmed people in his/her life and who has had dodgy business affairs in their past, but who still attends church, and who has confessed etc.

example 2: A person not associated to any church or religion... more or less because they were never directed towards any religious institution (I know of these people), who haved lived exempilary lives...who are good company and who you would trust with your life.

does example 1 achieve 'saved' status over our second example....if the answer is yes, then why?
Is example 2 damned because they are non practicing?

Hello, the theological answer is that we are saved by (sanctifying) grace and this grace comes via Christ.

If we die without this grace (i.e. in a state of mortal sin), we are damned. If we die with this grace (i.e. in friendship with God), we are saved. So we do have a part to play in our salvation (not our redemption).

God bless,
Noel.

mark renton

kelly1 wrote: »

Hello, the theological answer is that we are saved by (sanctifying) grace and this grace comes via Christ.

If we die without this grace (i.e. in a state of mortal sin), we are damned. If we die with this grace (i.e. in friendship with God), we are saved. So we do have a part to play in our salvation (not our redemption).

God bless,
Noel.

How do we know if we have his grace or not?

cynder

Revelation:

The ones with the mark of the devil on the forehead, the number 666 are condemned to Gehenna (the lake of fire).

homer911

PDN wrote: »

My understanding is that salvation is a result of putting your faith in Jesus Christ, not a reward for what kind of life you've lived. It's about accepting what Jesus has done for you, not about what you have done.

Think of it this way. Which person is most likely to make it across the Atlantic tomorrow?

a) The person who has trained very hard at the long jump, has never done anything to hinder their jumping abilities, and is going to do their level best to jump all the way from Clifden to Boston. An exemplary long jumper!

b) The person who has skipped their long jump training, eats all kinds of fattening food, but has realised that they are incapable of jumping across an ocean and have instead purchased a ticket with Delta Airlines for the 10.20am Dublin to Atlanta flight.

I'd say neither if that volcano cloud takes a shift in the wrong direction...;)

Stephentlig

kelly1 wrote: »

Hello, the theological answer is that we are saved by (sanctifying) grace and this grace comes via Christ.

If we die without this grace (i.e. in a state of mortal sin), we are damned. If we die with this grace (i.e. in friendship with God), we are saved. So we do have a part to play in our salvation (not our redemption).

God bless,
Noel.

Good post Noel for scripture says:Matthew:7: 21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Pax Christi
Stephen

PDN

homer911 wrote: »

I'd say neither if that volcano cloud takes a shift in the wrong direction...;)

I landed yesterday an hour before they closed the airport. And Monday I'm supposed to back on that Delta flight, so I'm praying the wind keeps blowing the way it is!

mark renton

Stephentlig wrote: »

Good post Noel for scripture says:Matthew:7: 21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Pax Christi
Stephen

Sounds like theres different levels of Heaven, like Heaven1 where the really good people go, then Heaven2 where to good people go, then Heaven3 like all white n stuff just with the Angels of lesser quality n stuff, this would be fair so people may then have a chance to redeem themselves a little if necessary, also would give them some incentive when they get there

Slav

the_dark_side wrote: »

quick question carried over from another thread, it thought would be worthy to start a new thread with this....

example 1: A Christian who has done alot of wrong, has harmed people in his/her life and who has had dodgy business affairs in their past, but who still attends church, and who has confessed etc.

example 2: A person not associated to any church or religion... more or less because they were never directed towards any religious institution (I know of these people), who haved lived exempilary lives...who are good company and who you would trust with your life.

does example 1 achieve 'saved' status over our second example....if the answer is yes, then why?
Is example 2 damned because they are non practicing?

I think we can say that there are 4 major viewpoints on this within Christianity:

1. I know I am saved because I accepted the undeserved gift of salvation offered to me by Jesus Christ (mainstream Protestant understanding)
2. If I die in peace with God (i.e. with all mortal sins confessed) I should be saved even though I might spent time in Purgatory for my venial sins (Roman Catholicism)
3. Even before I was born I was saved by Christ on the Cross, I'm being saved by Holy Spirit guiding me, I hope I'll be saved on the Final Judgement (Orthodox)
4. God predestines some people for salvation and some for damnation. (Calvinism)

As my own tradition fits into 3) above my own view is that both example 1 and example 2 were saved around 33 AD. I also believe that Holy Spirit is doing His best to guide them through their earthy life. I also hope that they both will be saved by God's grace upon resurrection and will both enter the Kingdom of God.

wolfsbane

the_dark_side wrote: »

quick question carried over from another thread, it thought would be worthy to start a new thread with this....

example 1: A Christian who has done alot of wrong, has harmed people in his/her life and who has had dodgy business affairs in their past, but who still attends church, and who has confessed etc.

example 2: A person not associated to any church or religion... more or less because they were never directed towards any religious institution (I know of these people), who haved lived exempilary lives...who are good company and who you would trust with your life.

does example 1 achieve 'saved' status over our second example....if the answer is yes, then why?
Is example 2 damned because they are non practicing?

If ex.1 means they have repented of their wrong, harm, dodgy business, then Yes, they are saved and ex.2 are not. Mere profession of repentance is not enough - it must be true, of the heart.

Ex.2 folk are damned because they remained rebels against God. They had their own righteousness, but not Christ's. When their righteousness is examined on the Day of Judgement it will be exposed as worthless in God's sight.
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Thomas828

Example 1 will be saved if he or she has truly repented and is sincerely trying to live life free from sin. But confession is no good if you continue with your bad old ways and just assume that God will always forgive you. If that was the case then example 2 would stand a much better chance.

Soul Winner

the_dark_side wrote: »

quick question carried over from another thread, it thought would be worthy to start a new thread with this....

example 1: A Christian who has done alot of wrong, has harmed people in his/her life and who has had dodgy business affairs in their past, but who still attends church, and who has confessed etc.

example 2: A person not associated to any church or religion... more or less because they were never directed towards any religious institution (I know of these people), who haved lived exempilary lives...who are good company and who you would trust with your life.

does example 1 achieve 'saved' status over our second example....if the answer is yes, then why?
Is example 2 damned because they are non practicing?

If both have faith in Jesus then both are guaranteed to be saved. If both don't have faith in Jesus then they are at the mercy of God as to why they don't have faith in Jesus. If their life circumstances were such that it was impossible to know anything about Jesus during their lifetime then they will be at the mercy of God and be judged by their own conscience, and if their consciences condemn them because of the sins they know they committed, but they cry out to God for mercy, then He will have mercy on the true heart of repentance. If they did know about Jesus and didn't believe in Him then they will have to give an account as to why they didn't believe in Him. Some will point to other religions and profess a faithfulness to those paths and God will reward their faithfulness to what they genuinely believed to be true. But for all the others, I can just here the excuses now :rolleyes: : "Bbbbut we proved you didn't exist." "Did you now? How wrong were you?" :pac:

Soul Winner

PDN wrote: »

I landed yesterday an hour before they closed the airport. And Monday I'm supposed to back on that Delta flight, so I'm praying the wind keeps blowing the way it is!

I flew out from Hethrow and got back to Dublin on Wednesday evening just before meltdowm started. That too was an act of God :pac:

antiskeptic

wolfsbane wrote: »

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Could you clarify whether this is a signature or not? I mean, it doesn't seem to have any contextual relevance to the body of your post.

wolfsbane

antiskeptic wrote: »

Could you clarify whether this is a signature or not? I mean, it doesn't seem to have any contextual relevance to the body of your post.

You might well think that any purple text in a post of mine is a signature; I couldn't possibly comment.

1 Timothy 2:12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

kelly1

john47832 wrote: »

How do we know if we have his grace or not?

Sometimes, it's hard to know. There's no exhaustive list of mortal sins but breaking the 10 commandments and related sins is serious.

For a sin to be mortal, there are 3 conditions.

* Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
* Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
* Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner

From http://www.saintaquinas.com/mortal_sin.html