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Athletics Ireland's new High Performance Strategy

  • 16-04-2010 03:00PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭


    Athletics Ireland launched its new High Performance Strategy yesterday.

    Main points:
    Performance Consultant Chris Jones has been engaged to initiate six specific projects, which have been identified as the core areas of the plan. These projects are as follows:

    1. High Performance Unit Organisation: May 2010
    2. Athlete Medical Management System: September 2010
    3. Sports Science Support Network: January 2011
    4. National Long Term Athlete Development Programme: April 2012
    5. National Coaching Advisory Group: January 2011
    6. Identify Performance Training Centres: January 2011



    Read about it here: http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?p=12933

    Official Document: http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/athletics-ireland-performance-initiative-2010.pdf

    Analysis from Ion O' Riordan: http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/too-late-for-london-2140448.html


    What do we think? I think it's obvious it's come too late for 2012, but I am, in general, excited about it as it addresses the key problems in the sport in relation to high performance.

    I like that they're looking to establish training hubs/development centres at 3rd level institutions.

    The only caveat is that all too often these shiny reports can be left sitting on the shelf, but with more organisations than the AAI involved, this may actually go somewhere.


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Rineanna wrote: »
    Athletics Ireland launched its new High Performance Strategy yesterday.

    Main points:





    Read about it here: http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?p=12933

    Official Document: http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/athletics-ireland-performance-initiative-2010.pdf

    Analysis from Ion O' Riordan: http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/too-late-for-london-2140448.html


    What do we think? I think it's obvious it's come too late for 2012, but I am, in general, excited about it as it addresses the key problems in the sport in relation to high performance.

    I like that they're looking to establish training hubs/development centres at 3rd level institutions.

    The only caveat is that all too often these shiny reports can be left sitting on the shelf, but with more organisations than the AAI involved, this may actually go somewhere.

    I believe it is a definite step in the right direction especially with regards to the use of third level institutions as training hubs.
    It appears that they are starting to take notice of the US system which has resulted in a great boom in America distance running over the last few years with training hubs being established in places like Oregon and Flagstaff to allow elite athletes access to top class training partners as well as coaching.
    For me the idea that there are great coaches and athletes isolated in Ireland cut off from training partners or in fact a group to coach is something which needed to be addressed however this can be a double edged sword and unless the coaches are given the right support (not just financial) it can create a scenario where a coach can not give enough attention to each athlete it could end up being a hinderance. I would like to see whether this can be implemented properly and hopefully see it is a major step forward and a success


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    From the Indo
    And Jones stressed that quality coaches, not facilities, are what Ireland needs to focus on.

    That gets a high five from me.

    I like this. A crap coach in great facilities will do little.

    A great coach in crap facilities will do a lot.

    If you think of the golden age of coaching in western Europe (in the UK in the 70/80/90's), facilities were alright but there was a batch of great coaches like Dick, Arnold, Paish, Warden, Coe etc. Coaching the coaches is the key, its encouraging this plan seems to look like its targeting it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    ecoli wrote: »
    It appears that they are starting to take notice of the US system which has resulted in a great boom in America distance running over the last few years with training hubs being established in places like Oregon and Flagstaff to allow elite athletes access to top class training partners as well as coaching.

    Yes, and probably closer to home a setup like Loughborough!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭myflipflops


    Rineanna wrote: »

    Cliona Foley. O'Riordan could sue you for suggesting he writes for this 'tabloid' rag!

    (Sorry, off topic).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40 anotheronebites


    this plan isnt going to go anywhere...great to see derval bashing on it in the daily mail today..its a complete PR stunt on behalf of high performance unit of AAI..a vain attempt by the high performance manager to hold onto his job.

    where are these magic world class coaches going to appear from? it means one thing, wasting taxpayers money on importing foreign coaches...hasn't AAI wasted enough taxpayer euro on in house bitching and fighting? as for creating hubs?? aai wont have the spine to make athletes relocate to these places...sher what little talent we have in ireland refuses to train together


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    this plan isnt going to go anywhere...great to see derval bashing on it in the daily mail today..its a complete PR stunt on behalf of high performance unit of AAI..a vain attempt by the high performance manager to hold onto his job.

    where are these magic world class coaches going to appear from? it means one thing, wasting taxpayers money on importing foreign coaches...hasn't AAI wasted enough taxpayer euro on in house bitching and fighting? as for creating hubs?? aai wont have the spine to make athletes relocate to these places...sher what little talent we have in ireland refuses to train together

    Granted i was not in support of what went on in terms of money spent in law suits however they specifically highlight the increase in AAI membership as well as look into other forms of funding. To me this seems like they feel that the grants which they get are going to drop and are looking to try and be more self sufficient.
    Admittedly i have my doubts about whether these will be instigated but atleast the fact that the reports are in the public domain may put a bit more pressure on to act rather than having no idea's how to take things forward.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,612 ✭✭✭gerard65


    this plan isnt going to go anywhere...great to see derval bashing on it in the daily mail today..its a complete PR stunt on behalf of high performance unit of AAI..a vain attempt by the high performance manager to hold onto his job.

    where are these magic world class coaches going to appear from? it means one thing, wasting taxpayers money on importing foreign coaches...hasn't AAI wasted enough taxpayer euro on in house bitching and fighting? as for creating hubs?? aai wont have the spine to make athletes relocate to these places...sher what little talent we have in ireland refuses to train together

    Ok, plenty of criticism there. Now what exactly would you do? If you were given the job of AAI chief for a day to come up with a plan what would your ideas be?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40 anotheronebites


    fire the high performance unit


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    fire the high performance unit

    And what would you put in place or what kind of plan would you have to develop our top class athletes to compete at the highest level?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,612 ✭✭✭gerard65


    fire the high performance unit
    You hav'nt really thought it through, have you? Its easy to be critical, its another thing to come up with a workable alternate.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40 anotheronebites


    build an indoor training facility with gym, massage, physio, indoor track, dorms, doctor, restaurant, miles of running trails on site..possibly woodchip trails..then instead of paying our elites grants id give them free living in the new centre and pay them a small stipend, say 3,000 a year. they will have the option to stay with their current coach but they will not receive any funding unless they join with whoever is hired as the national event coach so they'll have to pay their own way to live and train in the training centre. also, they will be ineligible for selection for major championships until they agree to join whoever the national event coach is...this way irish athletes will end up training together...right now, no one will leave their coach unless they are forced to. setting up hubs wont do anything because it isnt strong enough measure. unless athletes are forced to join it'll be the same old same old. juniors will be given a 4 year contract to be eligible to live and train in this centre but without the stipend..that way they are given time to develop. juniors who progress independtly of this system will be given the option to join but under the same terms as everyone else.

    just look what the brits did...we need to go one step further


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40 anotheronebites


    gerard65 wrote: »
    You hav'nt really thought it through, have you? Its easy to be critical, its another thing to come up with a workable alternate.

    <Snip>

    [anotheronebites banned]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    build an indoor training facility with gym, massage, physio, indoor track, dorms, doctor, restaurant, miles of running trails on site..possibly woodchip trails..then instead of paying our elites grants id give them free living in the new centre and pay them a small stipend, say 3,000 a year. they will have the option to stay with their current coach but they will not receive any funding unless they join with whoever is hired as the national event coach so they'll have to pay their own way to live and train in the training centre. also, they will be ineligible for selection for major championships until they agree to join whoever the national event coach is...this way irish athletes will end up training together...right now, no one will leave their coach unless they are forced to. setting up hubs wont do anything because it isnt strong enough measure. unless athletes are forced to join it'll be the same old same old. juniors will be given a 4 year contract to be eligible to live and train in this centre but without the stipend..that way they are given time to develop. juniors who progress independtly of this system will be given the option to join but under the same terms as everyone else.

    just look what the brits did...we need to go one step further


    Few points here:

    1. Where do you get the funding considering we can pay small amount towards funding athletes as is at the moment. Paying athletes plus supporting them as well as a multi million euro complex is not feasible.

    2. Look at some of are top class athletes who must work to support themselves maybe not in short term but after retirement (late thirties) are they supposed to give up there jobs and come to Dublin

    3. Athletes are more individual what suits one athlete may not suit another (i.e high mileage v low mileage) enforcing an athlete to come under them is detremental to development in some cases.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40 anotheronebites


    1. if AAI hadn't blown nearly one million on legal bills I'd recommend removing the entire high performance unit who brought about this mess.

    I would enter into an agreement with the IRFU to construct an indoor track around an indoor rugby pitch, thereby sharing the cost and creating an oversize track which will be able to be used out of the indoor season, such as summer and spring time when the weather is inclement, this will be a training centre, not a competition centre. If this was done at either leinster or munster or ulsters training facility it would be either UCD, UL or UU. We would then purchase a dorm block at one of these locations and pay for food in the canteen at the same location...guess what? theres a training centre ready to go

    2. all athletes who wish to be considered for selection must relocate to this centre. without this step it'll never get off the ground. older athletes will be expected to join these centres. those left outside the system will be left behind and it will be their loss

    3. surely the national governing body should be able to appoint such a coach who can take into consideration the needs of several different athletes? maybe you're referring to current high performance unit and how they would be unable to hire such a coach...on this, we are in agreement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭IrishTrackFan1


    gerard65 wrote: »
    You hav'nt really thought it through, have you? Its easy to be critical, its another thing to come up with a workable alternate.

    The plan itself is not the problem - it never is really as any plan is usually better than none. The real problem is the personnel. You are asking average and worse people to deliver world class services to our elite athletes and they can't do it. The HP manager is useless, none of the athletes have any time for him but since he delivered the bullying complaint against the last CEO on request from the powers that be he is untouchable. Likewise Chris Jones, no background in athletics, imposed by the Sports Council because they must have control and can only offer second raters. Nessa Smyth? I don't know one elite athlete who uses her!. McGonagle - there is nothing more to say there, he is in place over ten years and has delivered nothing of any lasting value, and possibly nothing even of transient value!
    This won't have any impact for 2012 and by 2016 nobody will remember it anyway - where are the outputs that will be used to measure progress?
    HP plan? Give the current elite athletes money and let them organise themselves. Possibly do something for the development athletes where we can add some value. If we manage to put a world class system in place then you can look to enforce participation. But here's a simple test - what international athletes will look to come here to train? When we get Martin Rooney coming here, instead of Gillick going to Loughborough then we will know we have a world class system.
    The Institute of Sport is a joke - it won't attract world class people yet athletes will be forced to use it. Read the Crawford report from Australia - they are reorganising their Sports Council and their Institute and we need to do the same.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli




    2. all athletes who wish to be considered for selection must relocate to this centre. without this step it'll never get off the ground. older athletes will be expected to join these centres. those left outside the system will be left behind and it will be their loss

    3. surely the national governing body should be able to appoint such a coach who can take into consideration the needs of several different athletes? maybe you're referring to current high performance unit and how they would be unable to hire such a coach...on this, we are in agreement.


    First point is one that i highlighted as a criticism to your plan take Athlete A who lives in Cork moves to UU to be part of this gives up his job and commits full time to this. This athlete goes on to perform well for Ireland and 10 years down the line retires. This athlete now has no home and no money saved up to support themselves for the rest of there life. What do they do now.

    Secondly say they have Lydiard (an example) his training philosphies influence all his schedules (high mileage low intesnsity) along comes an athlete who has been developing as part of his coaches methods (say Daniels High intensity running). Lydiards methods dont develop one athlete in six does that means that he goes against everything he knows on how to train this athlete?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    I'm with Gerard65 and ecoli here. Its easy to be critical. But when critical and an alternative solution put forward is to build an indoor track around an indoor rugby pitch, ah jaysus, pie in the sky. So its all about facilities is it? Finland have the best indoor facilities in the world, 400m indoor tracks. Great throwers and thats about that. Where were the great facilities in Britain in the 70/80s when there was the greatest generation of British coaches ever? Facilities is just an excuse. Its coaches and athletes are the answer. Kelly Proper has sh8te facilities. She is a great athlete. She has coaches who believe in her and have upskilled themselves to continue her progression. Thats whats needed, everywhere. Coach the coaches to coach the athletes.

    DCU has the potential to be a version of the pie in the sky alternative that anotheronebitesthedust suggests. Dorm, check. Trails, not really but lots of places to run. Track, check. Gym, check. Medical care, potentially check. Massage, potentially check and so on. You don't have to build big white elephants to have a proper high performance unit. The hubs are there. DCU, Ferrybank, Leevale, UU, Ballymena, Mullingar, the Cahills etc etc. Build on these.

    As for the personnel being an issue. If the system works propoerly then the personel will fall into place. Also, writing it off as never going to work because of who is or isn't involved is political and personal and an attitude that got us where we are. Patsy McGonagle won't be involved as he is just a team manager as he isn't going for chair of HP. The HP Manager now has clear goals to achieve and who is to say he won't achieve them. Give the system a chance. Support it. Compared to the previous system suggested, its the same or even better. As for Chris Jones, again give him a chance. Has anyone worked with him? Has anyone bad experiences in relation to him? He seems to have a strategic and realistic outlook on things and this is something we've never had. He isn't suggesting pie in the sky or bringing Grand Prix to Ireland or building indoor tracks. What use will that do and we don't have the resources or audience for either.

    We can either keep moaning and giving out or sulking because the people we wanted or the systems we wanted aren't in place or we can look forward, get behind a system that looks like it could work and focus on the sport and not the politics.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭IrishTrackFan1


    Tingle wrote: »
    I'm with Gerard65 and ecoli here. Its easy to be critical. But when critical and an alternative solution put forward is to build an indoor track around an indoor rugby pitch, ah jaysus, pie in the sky. So its all about facilities is it? Finland have the best indoor facilities in the world, 400m indoor tracks. Great throwers and thats about that. Where were the great facilities in Britain in the 70/80s when there was the greatest generation of British coaches ever? Facilities is just an excuse. Its coaches and athletes are the answer. Kelly Proper has sh8te facilities. She is a great athlete. She has coaches who believe in her and have upskilled themselves to continue her progression. Thats whats needed, everywhere. Coach the coaches to coach the athletes.

    DCU has the potential to be a version of the pie in the sky alternative that anotheronebitesthedust suggests. Dorm, check. Trails, not really but lots of places to run. Track, check. Gym, check. Medical care, potentially check. Massage, potentially check and so on. You don't have to build big white elephants to have a proper high performance unit. The hubs are there. DCU, Ferrybank, Leevale, UU, Ballymena, Mullingar, the Cahills etc etc. Build on these.

    As for the personnel being an issue. If the system works propoerly then the personel will fall into place. Also, writing it off as never going to work because of who is or isn't involved is political and personal and an attitude that got us where we are. Patsy McGonagle won't be involved as he is just a team manager as he isn't going for chair of HP. The HP Manager now has clear goals to achieve and who is to say he won't achieve them. Give the system a chance. Support it. Compared to the previous system suggested, its the same or even better. As for Chris Jones, again give him a chance. Has anyone worked with him? Has anyone bad experiences in relation to him? He seems to have a strategic and realistic outlook on things and this is something we've never had. He isn't suggesting pie in the sky or bringing Grand Prix to Ireland or building indoor tracks. What use will that do and we don't have the resources or audience for either.

    We can either keep moaning and giving out or sulking because the people we wanted or the systems we wanted aren't in place or we can look forward, get behind a system that looks like it could work and focus on the sport and not the politics.

    Have to disagree on a number of your points Tingle. When a system is up and running then it can be easier to fit people into a working system with the right ethic and morale in place. To get to that point you absolutely need the right people or else you get off on the wrong foot and that is the real risk here. We had Max Jones, Gareth Devlin and Patsy McGonagle for the last incarnation of a HP plan and they achieved nothing. The Sports Council have replaced one Jones with another and the result unfortunately will be the same. It unfortunately is not true to say McGonagle won't be involved. If you look at the plan you will see that the Senior Team Manager and the Performance Director (to be hired in April 2011) select all staff for travelling teams. Sending coaches to events with their coaches is an important part of developing those coaches but it will be subject to the usual McGonagle politicking as it always has been. Devlin has had plenty of time to show whatever hidden talents he might possess. He is detested in the office and he has a chip on his shoulder when dealing with athletes - I suspect a wannabee syndrome at work there.
    With Chris Jones why give him a chance over anyone else? If Gregan is to make it he needs input from someone who has brought someone like Gregan on to the next level before - and that's the problem with Jones he has no experience of doing this. Now it is not likely we can attract someone who has such experience and that is why I say that you just give the top athletes the money and let them get on with it. When we have a Van Commennee and a system to match then we can insist on them getting on board.
    Agree mostly re facilities but there is a real issue here for the technical events. It must be an issue for Derval that she has to train in a freezing indoor strip all winter. At least get some heating in there, even if only to help the Clonliffe wimps!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips


    IrishTrackFan1 hit the nail on the head there.

    The plan is mainly a publicity stunt because with the personnel involved in delivering it it is doomed for failure.

    Patsy McGonagle's approach to High Performance would be more akin to the hurling dressing room sketch out of D'Unbelievables than anything remotely approaching professional. He has been involved in this area for over a decade and has delivered nothing so expect him to head up the "High Performance Unit".

    Gareth Devlin is held in contempt by pretty much anyone he has ever come in contact with in the sport. He is useless as well so expect him to be given a promotion and made McGonagle's side-kick within that unit.

    John Foley - not exactly overly convincing in laying out how the plan will be funded. His comment about it being a plan to Rio 2016 sounds like the sort of vague accountability we have heard all too many times before.

    Liam Hennessy...well I don't think much needs to be said about this man other than have a look at the following clip:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iKaSuPmanE

    Is it any wonder that the organisation is a complete joke when the odds are this guy is going to be re-elected as President for another 2 year term at Congress next weekend?

    I know people would like to see a World Class Performance Plan for Irish Athletics implemented but it's simply not going to happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4 fastrack


    I think both IrishTrackFan1 and Fish'n'Chips have hit the nail on the head on this one. It is merely a PR stunt to gloss over what has been going on for the past 2 years by certain individuals as named above. Note the timing of this - just over a week before congress to rush the launch through and note the paragraph in the strategy which states:

    Performance Director & National team manager to appoint and engage all staff for major
    championship events
    .

    This essentially strips away the functions of the Coaching & Dev committee and High Perf committee without approval by congress and gives the 'Donegal Mafia' and their friends a clear run with their 'High Performance Unit' taking High Performance away from the 'rump of the sport' which they've always wanted. This underhanded means of conducting business is what started this whole legal mess in the Summer of 2008 by McGonagle, Devlin and co as clearly seen in their email exchanges in the High Court transcripts.

    It is absolutely scandalous that McGonagle, Devlin and Hennessey whose actions have cost the sport over half a million in legal fees since the last congress 2 years ago are still in a position to continue to operate in the sport a the highest level. It would be no different to Seanie Fitzpatrick, David Drumm and co still holding their positions in Anglo Irish after their wreckles behaviour, but their shareholders would not tolerate it and neither should Athletics Ireland members tolerate this.

    As a sport we have a chance next weekend at the Sligo congress to make some changes and pose some serious questions as to how we got ourself into such a position; and hopfully influence the future direction of our sport. The members must be made aware of the full truth and facts and not just the one-sided spin that a lot of them have been brainwashed with so that Hennessey gets reelected and the cosy clique continues.

    I note too in the sillibus sent out to the county boards, that certan elements of the financial report have been blackened out, in particular a letter this time last year from the Finance & Risk committe warning the board members of the wreckless financial position that they were putting the sport in, where an alternative option for settlement was put before them which would have avoided High Court action and the huge legal costs, that was ignored by the 'anti-Coghlan faction' of the board.

    People need to be made answereable and accountable for their actions and next weekend is the chance to make this happen.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    Lads, this is getting boring. You can all head off to Sligo next week and talk, talk and scheme and do whatever else goes on at these things. Leevale was on yesterday, we had a great days sport from 10 year olds to elites, schools are starting soon, varsity is on next week, the track season is getting into full swing. Thats the real sport not this politics crap of people trying to make names for themselves without really doing or having anything to do with the sport, really. Boring, boring, boring. Seriously, its not a case of burying heads in the sand, its just getting on with it.

    If a volcano erupted under the hotel that Congress is on next week, would it really matter and have an effect on the sport, not sure, don't think it would, most of the important people in the sport won't be there, ie, the athletes and the coaches, I'm sure we'd lose a few good men and women but by and large, probably not;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭IrishTrackFan1


    Tingle wrote: »
    Lads, this is getting boring. You can all head off to Sligo next week and talk, talk and scheme and do whatever else goes on at these things. Leevale was on yesterday, we had a great days sport from 10 year olds to elites, schools are starting soon, varsity is on next week, the track season is getting into full swing. Thats the real sport not this politics crap of people trying to make names for themselves without really doing or having anything to do with the sport, really. Boring, boring, boring. Seriously, its not a case of burying heads in the sand, its just getting on with it.

    If a volcano erupted under the hotel that Congress is on next week, would it really matter and have an effect on the sport, not sure, don't think it would, most of the important people in the sport won't be there, ie, the athletes and the coaches, I'm sure we'd lose a few good men and women but by and large, probably not;)

    Suspect things would improve radically!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4 fastrack


    I also notice Jamie Costin was appointed to address the media at last weeks launch. He wasn't exactly 'singing off the same hymn sheet' as O'Rourke or Gillick in their response in the Daily Mail the next day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips


    I believe Jamie Costin is only in that position to be a "Yes Man" for AAI and the Sports Council. Note the Waterford connection. He doesn't represent the opinion of most Irish athletes. You'd have to be fairly wary of the motives of a current athlete who has involvment in the politics of the sport...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4 fastrack


    FishnChips wrote: »
    I believe Jamie Costin is only in that position to be a "Yes Man" for AAI and the Sports Council. Note the Waterford connection. He doesn't represent the opinion of most Irish athletes. You'd have to be fairly wary of the motives of a current athlete who has involvment in the politics of the sport...

    Yes, he is the 'Athletes Representative' on both the AAI High Performance Committee and the OCI Athletes Commission, but I don't believe he was voted into either of these positions by the athletes, so he certainly doesn't represent the opinion of most Irish athletes. Again, more of the same re McGonagle, Hennessy etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    It seems to me if you are not on 'your' side whatever your side is, you are considered part of the clique or part of the conspiracy. Jamie Costin is a decent guy, you are losing credibility quick by attacking him, he was there when Mary Coghlan was in power, was he a yes man for her back then? Are Ciara Mageean, Dave Campbell and Brain Gregan part of the plan of the dark side also or have they been brainwashed. Seriously, its getting crazy. Its like Jim Corr.

    Whats wrong with a current athlete taking an interest? Derval O' Rourke has commented several times in the press (Indo, Daily Mail) about this situation, do we question her motives. Perhaps you do as she is managed by Paul Doyle but I wouldn't say thats the only reason as she is a naturally outspoken person (which is great).

    Waterford connection:confused::confused::confused:, is Kelly Proper part of the conspiracy too. How about Usain Bolt, he is managed by Ricky Simms who is from Donegal, I'd say he is involved too. Costin spoke openly at the conference and to media such as Irish Times (forgot they are in on it too) and RTE (probably they are in it too) yet we get the athletes voice as being quotes from Derval O' Rourke in the Daily Mail. A rag that not too long ago was accusing Mary Coghlan of bullying (falsely), ie, they stir up the sh*t, thats what they do. Please don't tell me you are basing the Daily Mail as the barometer of the feeling of athletes in Ireland. Can you give me evidence that Jamie Costin doesn't represent the views of current Irish athletes, how did you undertake this research?

    Newsflash: Patsy McGonagle and Gareth Devlin and Liam Hennessy and the Irish Times and Jamie Costin and Ciara Mageean and the Daily Mail (oh no they are not talking about Mary and bullying anymore, they are on our side - Jim Corr), Ossie Kilkenny and Bono, the postman from Glenties who predicts the weather (he is from Donegal) were all spotted in Iceland last week. Its suspected they triggered the volcano. Typical, what else would you expect from the clique:rolleyes:

    While I am not denying there are problems, I think this has definetly gone to the land where old Mr Corr resides.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips


    Originally posted by Tingle
    Newsflash: Patsy McGonagle and Gareth Devlin and Liam Hennessy and the Irish Times and Jamie Costin and Ciara Mageean and the Daily Mail (oh no they are not talking about Mary and bullying anymore, they are on our side - Jim Corr), Ossie Kilkenny and Bono, the postman from Glenties who predicts the weather (he is from Donegal) were all spotted in Iceland last week. Its suspected they triggered the volcano. Typical, what else would you expect from the cliquerolleyes.gif

    I never said Jamie Costin wasn't a decent guy but he wasn't voted in by the athletes so how can he be representative of them? In general, athletes are afraid to publicly voice their real opinions for fear of being shafted by the powers that be for doing so. That's the basic Modus operandi of the Sports Council as was shown in the High Court -rule by fear. Again, for someone who has remarked quite a lot on this it seems strange that you wouldn't have deducted this (or even thought it was possible) from what the court transcripts revealed about the ISC/AAI.

    Also, it's a fact that there's a stong link between Costin and the Sports Council through Pierce O'Callaghan and Patsy McGonagle so it's not some sort of mad conspiracy like you're trying to make out.
    While I am not denying there are problems

    Understatement of the year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    FishnChips wrote: »
    I never said Jamie Costin wasn't a decent guy

    True, but you said he is a Yes man which is not a very complimentary charachter description and you questioned his motives for being the athlete rep. If thats not an attack on him personally, I'd hate to see what you'd say if you meant to attack him personally. As for the Pierce O' Callaghan link, I assume thats due to the Walks so do we assume then that the man likely to replace Patsy McGonagle at Congress next week, Ray Flynn, will also be part of this clique as he is a walks man through and through?
    FishnChips wrote: »
    . Again, for someone who has remarked quite a lot on this it seems strange that you wouldn't have deducted this .

    Maybe I don't believe in fairytales or conspiracy theories;)

    So, politics and Congress canvassing aside, does anyone have any other opinions on the plan. Personally I think it looks good as I have said. Indentify/create centres of excellence, tap into 3rd level institutions, implement proper LTAD, proper event coaches. There is more to a High Performance plan or high performance centre than putting a bit of heating in Santry. That would help maybe 50 top (not even elite athletes) in one location for 4-5 months of the year and only sprinters at that and to be honest won't leave a great legacy in say 10-20 years. This plan seems to address the next generation and is, at last, seemingly looking at the next 10 years as opposed to the next 10 months. When you look at the current make-up of Irish teams from Youth to Senior, how many of them came through and used one of the best (even though inadequate) indoor facility in Ireland we have in Santry, very few. What does that say? To me, that facilities are not as important as coaches.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips


    Originally posted by Tingle
    As for the Pierce O' Callaghan link, I assume thats due to the Walks so do we assume then that the man likely to replace Patsy McGonagle at Congress next week, Ray Flynn, will also be part of this clique as he is a walks man through and through?

    No, Jamie Costin and Pierce O'Callaghan are very close friends.
    Originally posted by Tingle
    So, politics and Congress canvassing aside, does anyone have any other opinions on the plan.

    Again, overlooking the fundamental flaw with the plan. Denial is not just a river in Africa..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips


    Originally posted by Tingle
    Maybe I don't believe in fairytales or conspiracy theorieswink.gif

    What are the fairytales?


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