Major Flight disruption today

GerardKeating

Volcanic ash cloud disrupts European flights..

rebel.ranter

Surely you mean disruption not distribution?

GerardKeating

rebel.ranter wrote: »

Surely you mean disruption not distribution?

That too, some flights are being distributed to other airports

From the RyanAir site.

Flight disruptions 15th April 2010 due to Icelandic volcano eruption.

From the Heathrow Airport site..

Last updated: 7:00am
Following advice from the Met Office, the National Air Traffic Service (NATS) has introduced restrictions to UK airspace this morning as a result of volcanic ash drifting across the UK from Iceland. These measures currently affect Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow airports which are closed but may also affect other parts of the UK later today. Passengers intending to fly today are asked to contact their airline for further information and should expect disruption in the coming hours. Updates will be issued throughout the morning.

From the Birmingham airport site..

MAJOR FLIGHT DISTRUPTION – Thursday 15th April

Sponge Bob

All Norways airports are shut bar Oslo which shuts at 9am our time.

The excellent Iceland Weather site ( unlike our overpaid tossers whoc an't run a radar) is here

http://en.vedur.is/

Their 5 day forecast is here

http://en.vedur.is/weather/forecasts/atlantic/

It shows the ash plume being spat toward the northern north north sea ..Scotland Norway then on to Denmark thurs and friday.

On Friday Night the airflow starts to push the plume in a straight line from Iceland to Ireland, get out of here by midnight friday ....in fact the transatlantic routes may close by 1800 GMT Friday eastbound from the US and Canada and Westbound later that night.

Sponge Bob

UK and Irish airspace is closing at Midday. I assume that anything caught on the atlantic either has to divert south or land in Shannon.

Don't ask me when they will reopen the airspaces, the ash cloud looks like tracking towards Ireland from friday night and for quite some time thereafter.

However Connemara International Airport will remain open for business if you are going to the Aran Islands.

Cookie_Monster

can planes not just fly above or below it?

Brian

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

can planes not just fly above or below it?

Uses more fuel. In my case, Ryanair seem to have jumped at the opportunity to cancel my flight - Aer Lingus flights to Heathrow were still operating half an hour after my flight to Stansted was cancelled.

Sponge Bob

It looks like Shannon-USA should be OK till tomorrow but these will change every 4 hours. Flights are cancelled ( or not) based on this information.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/vaacuk_vag.html

Cookie_Monster

Personally I think the whole situation is stupid. How come they are only cancelling flights for today today. This eruption happened weeks ago and the cloud has been tracked. Why couldn't they have given people 3-4 days notice given they knew wind and weather conditions and that the cloud would affect travel?

munchkin_utd

Thanks be to god I got off the island on Tuesday when the going was good!

Statement from the Irish Aviation Authority

The Irish Aviation Authority based on advice from the Volcanic Ash Advisory Centre, will start to close sections of Irish airspace from 1200 today. This will result in the shutdown of operations at Dublin Airport.

The cause of the closure relates to the ash cloud from a volcano in Iceland, which is heading towards Ireland. It is not safe for aircraft to fly into volcanic dust as it can cause engines to shut down and other electrical faultsThe volcanic ash cloud is also causing severe restriction in UK Airspace. The situation is being closely monitored and an update will be provided at noon today.

Passengers are advised to contact their airline's website.

http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=93&n=96&a=859

And from Cork airport all departing flights to at least 4pm are cancelled.

Sponge Bob

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Personally I think the whole situation is stupid.

This is a DIFFERENT eruption you numpty

The Ash volcano only went off on tuesday night, the one you are on about is not an aviation hazard at all.

Alun

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Personally I think the whole situation is stupid. How come they are only cancelling flights for today today. This eruption happened weeks ago and the cloud has been tracked. Why couldn't they have given people 3-4 days notice given they knew wind and weather conditions and that the cloud would affect travel?

This was a fresh eruption that started last night in the main crater which was much more powerful than what happened last month.

munchkin_utd

Alun wrote: »

This was a fresh eruption that started last night in the main crater which was much more powerful than what happened last month.

And its still going!

In a BBC interview, Britain's National Air Traffic Service Director Paul Haskins said the volcanic eruption is still under way and that the situation is being constantly reviewed.

from http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0415/travel.html

Run_to_da_hills

No doubt Sealink and Irish Ferries will be rubbing their hands, pay back time.

murphaph

what do folks reckon, will Dublin be open again at 9am? My bro is supposed to be flying out to visit us for the weekend

Looks shakey.

Brian

murphaph wrote: »

what do folks reckon, will Dublin be open again at 9am? My bro is supposed to be flying out to visit us for the weekend

Looks shakey.

The cloud appears to be focussed more over England, so so long as he's not flying out of the UK he should be all right.. http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271309704.png

loveacca

Is it only today? Relations coming in from the UK at the weekend for a family do and my poor mother is going demented that they may not make it

murphaph

Baza210 wrote: »

The cloud appears to be focussed more over England, so so long as he's not flying out of the UK he should be all right.. http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271309704.png

But presumably a Dublin-Berlin flight would have to pass right through that cloud and so will also be cancelled?

Brian

murphaph wrote: »

But presumably a Dublin-Berlin flight would have to pass right through that cloud and so will also be cancelled?

Possibly, although if the take off and landing airports are clear they might be able to fly over it..

rom

OK Aer Lingus canceled my flight from Cork. Am I entitled to compensation for this other than the price of the flight back. Paid for insurance on the flight also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_261/2004#Cancellation

It looks like I should get 250 Euro per passenger. Am I right ?

daveyboy_1ie

Flying to Thailand (via Amsterdam) next Friday morning at 4 in the morning, so will hopefully be ok. Depends on how bad things get. Hopefully things will return to normal ASAP, maybe by Saturday if of course the Volcano eruption does not get worse.

Between the passport office fiasco, riots in Bangkok and Volcano's in Iceland I am begining to feel that the world does not want us to go on this holiday

mayotom

Was down in the Airport in Faro a while ago and most flights are cancelled from UK and Ireland, but there is that one getting through from the Foggy, boggy mountainside Knock looks like Knock and Shannon are the only Int airports operating in the UK and Ireland, they´ll need to be ready for the diversions, bit of a bonanza for the all those empty hotels in the west

Cookie_Monster

Sponge Bob wrote: »

This is a DIFFERENT eruption you numpty

The Ash volcano only went off on tuesday night, the one you are on about is not an aviation hazard at all.

Alun wrote: »

This was a fresh eruption that started last night in the main crater which was much more powerful than what happened last month.

EDIT: read it wrong first time. fair enough about the timings now i've read it properly

thomasm

Trying to rebook with ryaniar online but none of the flights from ireland are listed as cancelled after 8am so you cant do it even though they are cancelled. Ryanair not answering any phones...any ideas anyone

KC61

daveyboy_1ie wrote: »

Flying to Thailand (via Amsterdam) next Friday morning at 4 in the morning, so will hopefully be ok. Depends on how bad things get. Hopefully things will return to normal ASAP, maybe by Saturday if of course the Volcano eruption does not get worse.

Between the passport office fiasco, riots in Bangkok and Volcano's in Iceland I am begining to feel that the world does not want us to go on this holiday

Out of curiosity, how can you be flying at 4am??

The first flight from Dublin is not until 0600!!!

Depending on what you need to do at the airport - 1 hour to 90 minutes is the max time you need to check in etc.

Sponge Bob

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ok so different eruption, but if it happened Tues night why is there still only notice as of (late) this morning?

The cloud only got here this morning , thats why

The next advisory is due shortly and will project out to around 6am UTC tomorrow. Decisions will be made therefter.

The last advisory showed the ash cloud east of Dublin but nowhere near Knock and Shannon and Cork before tonight at midnight at which point it projects into the celtic sea from wales and you must go around kerry and consider closing Cork fom 6pm. That may change in the next advisory and cause eg planes from Portugal to Cork to divert to Shannon instead.

Look at it properly willya

6am

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271309704.png

Advisory updates.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/vaacuk_vag.html

KC61

rom wrote: »

OK Aer Lingus canceled my flight from Cork. Am I entitled to compensation for this other than the price of the flight back. Paid for insurance on the flight also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_261/2004#Cancellation

It looks like I should get 250 Euro per passenger. Am I right ?

Come off it. Why should they pay you? It's not their fault. I am afraid that you are not entitled to compensation.

Reread the link that you put up. It says:

The airline is also required to pay cash compensation as described below, unless one of the following conditions applies:

one of which is:

"the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided by any reasonable measure."

These are most certainly extraordinary circumstances.

Colm R

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ok so different eruption, but if it happened Tues night why is there still only notice as of (late) this morning?

The cause of this problem is specifically the eruption which occurred around midnight last night.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

These are most certainly extraordinary circumstances.

No its not, volcanos are not extraordinary by any stretch of the imagination, nor are dust clouds. volcanos and dustclouds are not extraordinary in Iceland (or europe) either.

IMO its not different to closing an airport due to heavy rain or fog.

daveyboy_1ie

KC61 wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how can you be flying at 4am??

The first flight from Dublin is not until 0600!!!

Good call, actually flight is at 6.00 and had it in my head to be at airport at 4, but as you say it hardly needs the full two hours, so might try and get there closer to 5 am.

Sponge Bob

The new advisory shows the cloud over Ireland tomorrow morning at 5am ( our time) and this includes Shannon and Knock.

There is no way that Irish airspace will be open tomorrow, friday. Everywhere north of a line from Paris to Vienna to Kiev will be shut tomorrow.

NEW

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271331761.png

mayotom

My Brother just took off from Knock 5 minutes ago for Faro, all fine there, but tomorrow looks like a problem...

will be a big night out in Albufeira tonight then

Tigerbaby

Tom

just spotted your brother's plane flying south over Limerick on www.flightradar24.com.

fair sailing to him !!

Tadhg.

Sponge Bob

There were a number of notorious ash incidents between 1981 and 1991 which taught airlines never to f***k with ash.

This is a report of what happened to a plane that hit an ash cloud 1000km from Mount Pinatubo. The report comes from the US Geological survey

http://www.preventionweb.net/files/3000_USGS2.pdf

Aircraft encountered ash cloud at 29,000 ft at
approximately 600 nm west of volcano. Crew
observed St. Elmo's fire on the windshield and a
scent similar to an electrical fire in the
cockpit for 6 to 8 min as they went through the
ash. There was no abnormal indication in
the cockpit. The crew observed a green echo,
which seemed to be ash on weather radar, but it
disappeared when they were clear of the ash.

Flight attendants reported thin (whitish) fog in the
cabin, most dense in the upper deck compartment,
followed by the forward cabin. The flight was
continued to Tokyo, where engine inspection
revealed that all four engines were damaged
and were replaced.

Firststage nozzle guide vane cooling air holes were
70-80% blocked. Other damage occurred to the
cockpit windows, cabin windows, Pitot static
probes, landing light covers, navigation lights,
and all leading edge areas.

Another plane was damaged 1000 miles away from that volcano.

KevR

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The new advisory shows the cloud over Ireland tomorrow morning at 5am ( our time) and this includes Shannon and Knock.

There is no way that Irish airspace will be open tomorrow, friday. Everywhere north of a line from Paris to Vienna to Kiev will be shut tomorrow.

NEW

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271331761.png

Was supposed to be a review for UK airspace at 6pm today but they're not even going to bother with that review now; next review is 6am tomorrow. So 100% nothing in or out of the UK before then.

murphaph

looks like no chance for my bro's flight at 9 in the morning out of Dublin so. Balls. Ryanair website is not great, no info about tomorrow.

KevR

UK airspace now 7am at the very earliest.

Eurocontrol saying airspace closures around Europe could last 48 hours.

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

No its not, volcanos are not extraordinary by any stretch of the imagination, nor are dust clouds. volcanos and dustclouds are not extraordinary in Iceland (or europe) either.

IMO its not different to closing an airport due to heavy rain or fog.

Nothing like this has happened before in Northern Europe to this scale. I certainly can never remember Irish and UK airspace being closed due to Volcanic ash.

UK ATC (NATs) spokesman was quoted today as saying that "the airspace restriction was the worst in living memory".

In terms of airlines compensating customers, and that is what I was discussing, I would have to say that this does fall under the term "extraordinary" and that they are not liable.....it is basically an act of God and outside of their control.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

UK ATC (NATs) spokesman was quoted today as saying that "the airspace restriction was the worst in living memory".

WW2, no?

KC61 wrote: »

In terms of airlines compensating customers, and that is what I was discussing, I would have to say that this does fall under the term "extraordinary" and that they are not liable.....it is basically an act of God and outside of their control.

Act of nature, should be treated exactly the same as a weather related closure because that's what it is. God has nothing to do with it.

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

WW2, no?



Act of nature, should be treated exactly the same as a weather related closure because that's what it is. God has nothing to do with it.

I don't think mass transportation by air had quite reached the same proportions by 1939 as it is now.

So are you seriously saying that airlines should have to compensate passengers for the delays in this situation?

munchkin_utd

Bus Eireann Eurolines is putting on extra capacity to GB to cater for demand.

Additional Euroline Services ex-Dublin for anyone wishing to travel to the UK today. For more information on route 871 to London and other services visit http://bit.ly/EurolineServices

http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=854&month=Apr

lubo_moravcik

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

WW2, no?



Act of nature, should be treated exactly the same as a weather related closure because that's what it is. God has nothing to do with it.

if God had anything to do with it then my flight WILL fly out tomorrow afternoon

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

So are you seriously saying that airlines should have to compensate passengers for the delays in this situation?

I don't know off hand what the airlines have to do for "normal" adverse weather closures, but whatever it is this should be treated exactly the same and the same action taken over cancellations.

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

if God had anything to do with it then my flight WILL fly out tomorrow afternoon

:D

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I don't know off hand what the airlines have to do for "normal" adverse weather closures, but whatever it is this should be treated exactly the same and the same action taken over cancellations.
:D

So you have been griping with me about this without knowing the facts about this???? I as a regular traveller do.
Cop on. Sorry - but really - I was being very specific in stating that all my comments were in relation to airline liability.

Fog, snow, volcanic ash etc. ALL fall within the description of "extraordinary" in the context of the EU compensation regulations, i.e. "the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided by any reasonable measure."

That is the only scope in which I am using the word. Nothing else.

This is one circumstance where the airlines are not liable as it is completely outside their control.

Someone asked the question if they were entitled to compensation - they're not. Full stop.

KevR

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Bus Eireann Eurolines is putting on extra capacity to GB to cater for demand.


http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=854&month=Apr

Apparently there are 5 extra buses, all of which are full according to a friend of mine who is trying to get home to Manchester.


Wikipedia, I know, but looking at the historical information - this volcano can keep erupting for quite a few days at a time and in the past, incidents with this volcano were followed by volcanic incidents at the nearby Katla volcano which is much bigger and has worse eruptions.

Might be worse to come in terms of transportation in Europe and there is a chance that it could affect our weather.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyjafjallajökull#Eyjafjallaj.C3.B6kull_and_Katla

BenShermin

KC61 wrote: »

Someone asked the question if they were entitled to compensation - they're not. Full stop.

Pardon my ignorance, but are they actually even entitled to a transfer to another flight, or do the airlines just do that as a goodwill gesture?

BenShermin

According to the Stena Line website they've cancelled their 1925 sailing from Dún Laoghaire to Holyhead.

Stena never had any luck when unusual circumstances brought their competition to a halt, during the Irish Ferries dispute the HSS broke down:rolleyes:.

Sponge Bob

Paris is closing airports tonight at 2100 and for an indefinite duration.

I assume Germany/Holland go down some time today.

krustydoyle

My Friend is stuck in Belgium and aer lingus have re booked her on a flight at 10am saturday morning... shes worried that it wont of shifted by then because we have tickets for jeff dunham on sunday night..:mad::mad::(

KevR

BenShermin wrote: »

According to the Stena Line website they've cancelled their 1925 sailing from Dún Laoghaire to Holyhead.

Stena never had any luck when unusual circumstances brought their competition to a halt, during the Irish Ferries dispute the HSS broke down:rolleyes:.

16:20 Holyhead-Dun Laoghaire cancelled also.


Norway has closed it's ocean territory by the way. Not sure if it's because of the ash or not though...

KC61

BenShermin wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance, but are they actually even entitled to a transfer to another flight, or do the airlines just do that as a goodwill gesture?

That's a completely different question.

Basically in the event of cancelled flights the following rules apply under EU regulations:

If a flight is cancelled, passengers are automatically entitled to their choice of:

(a.) re-routing to the same destination at the earliest opportunity (under comparable conditions);

(b.) later rerouting, at the passenger's convenience, to the same destination under comparable conditions (subject to seat availability); or

(c.) a refund of the ticket as well as a return flight to the point of first departure, when relevant. Any ticket refund is the price paid for the flight(s) not used, plus the cost of flights already flown in cases where the cancellation has made those flights of no purpose. (see note below).

Where applicable, passengers are also entitled to refreshments, communication and accommodation as described below. Where re-routing is to another airport serving the same destination, the airline must pay for onward transport to the original airport or to a close-by destination agreed with the passenger. These choices, and the entitlement to refreshments, etc., apply to all cancellations, regardless of whether the circumstances are extraordinary or not.

The airline is also required to pay cash compensation, unless one of the following conditions applies:

• the airline notifies the passengers at least two weeks prior to departure
• the airline notifies the passengers between one and two weeks prior to departure, and re-routes passengers so that they can depart no more than two hours earlier than scheduled, and arrive no more than four hours later than scheduled
• the airline notifies the passengers less than one week prior to departure, and re-routes passengers so that they can depart no more than one hour earlier than scheduled, and arrive no more than two hours later than scheduled
• the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided by any reasonable measure.

The airline must also provide an explanation to passengers of alternative transport.

No compensation payments apply in these particular circumstances as the last condition above is fulfilled - i.e. it is outside the airline's control.

Note - the point regarding providing a return flight to the starting point from a transit airport applies only where passengers are transiting on a through ticket - so it does not apply for example to Ryanair who only sell point-to-point tickets.