Swim training - help needed

DustyBin

OK so I can swim, just not very far. I'm referring to front crawl or free style, whatever you want to call it yourself.

People who know what they're talking about have seen me in action and tell me that I can swim, I just don't have swim fitness. When I fatigue, everything goes to pot.

Currently comfortable enough to dig out 50m repeats, with a fair rest between. Plan next week to attempt to push it out to include a couple of 100m repeats. Trying to give 2 mornings a week to the swimming also.

At the moment that's just what I do, I go down to the pool and dig out reps.

So, hopefully someone could point me in the right direction. I'm looking to get more out of my morning swims, and would like to have a bit of structure to them. I've been swimming for about 7 months and have hit a wall of some sort, and just don't seem to be getting any better.

During my weekly running I know that basically I have to aim for one speed type session and one long endurance type session in the week, with everything else at an easy pace. Is there a similar outline/structure I can adopt to swimming twice a week?

I own a pair of fins and a kick board if that helps.

Thanks for any help you can give.

groovyg

Does you local pool offer adult coaching sessions? If it does you could try going to one of those, in these sessions you usually do reps of 100's 200's 50m sprints etc which would build up your swim fitness. I find I swim a lot more in those sessions than if I go to the pool on my own.

DustyBin

Yeah they do adult lessons, but they're more about teaching people how to swim - like for total beginners. Not a sniff of doing sets or anything, I was just left to swim up and down on my own really, which was a pain in the butt.
Maybe that's all I can do is keep swimming, but I suppose I was looking for ideas for drills that might help build stamina or fitness, or maybe some rule of thumb as to what sort of % increase in sets and total distance I should be trying to do each week
Aghh, I'm just confusing myself - is it simply a case of practice, practice, practice?

tunney

With all due respect - if all you can do is 50m reps "with a fair rest" I'd guess that you need the lessons and that its not just fitness.

DustyBin

Tunney you're right, proper lessons would surely make a big difference and ideally I'd have got the swimming sorted out over the winter. I did some group adult lessons but got very little out of them other than pool time. I'd like now to go for some one-one lessons but would like more time to commit to the swimming than I currently do until after the marathon in cork. In the meantime I'm just trying to keep going and improve a little if I can. Do you have any suggestions for what I should be trying to do on a 2 day a week 45 - 50 min a day basis? Thanks

gerardduff

tunney wrote: »

With all due respect - if all you can do is 50m reps "with a fair rest" I'd guess that you need the lessons and that its not just fitness.

In fairness most places offering lessons are aimed at getting people off the bars and started.

The OP wants a few ideas of drills and sets...Anybody who's done any swimming knows where he's coming from there. Swimming can be really tedious if you are on your own or lack focus or just the experience of having trained with other swimmers.

If you can join a big enough club that has lots of lanes operating with varying abilities that's where you should head. Swimming with a buddy or in a group will do wonders for your swimming, but the standard has to be compatible.

If you don't have a local club, just go to a local pool and ask if they put a lane in. Go when the lane is in and make a swimming buddy.

If you can't get going with any of that, put your fins on and try swimming farther. Increase your endurance.

Every sport requires a level of endurance which you can only acquire by participating. Swimming especially. This is really because swimming requires specific muscles to be (aerobically) fit. Added to this, your breathing has to be controlled (syncronised with your stroke) to be an efficient swimmer. Again, practice is the only way to improve.

Build the endurance up over time by shortening your rest period/increasing distance/doing sets/varying your workouts and drills. When you can keep in going for 10 to 15mins at any pace with good form you are ready to do speed work. And you should always be in control of your stroke. If ' everything goes to pot' (I think you said ) you're going too hard. Ease off.

secman

Hi Dusty,

As I said in my PM, I'll be at the leisure centre in Courtown on Sunday morning at 10 to do a session.
I do appreciate where you are at the moment in the swimming, but I think I can be of some help to you.
I used to be a Triathlete in a previous life from 89 to 99 !, but these days I am crocked and am only able for the swims now.

In the next month or so I will be getting in to the sea at Cahore, last year I helped a local girl to train for the Olympic Eireman event, she was quite nervous of getting in to the sea , especially on her own. As you all know the swim section was cancelled !

Anyways I'll be there on Sunday, most probably tired from my Sat session (long one usually)

Secman

ir666

DB,

if you can swim 50m then rest.

Why not throw in some 75m & rest etc.

The main thing is to slow down and relax relax relax!

As others have said , swimming with others or a club etc would be a great idea.

But the main thing that helped me was to go super slow and relaxed and build slowly.

Best of luck.

tunney

In fairness most places offering lessons are aimed at getting people off the bars and started.

The OP wants a few ideas of drills and sets...Anybody who's done any swimming knows where he's coming from there. Swimming can be really tedious if you are on your own or lack focus or just the experience of having trained with other swimmers.

I learnt to swim aged 23-24.
I still amn't and will never be a good swimmer but I've manged to get my 1500m time down to low 20s. I know where he is coming from and I know that he needs more than a few "drills and sets" - he needs someone to develop his stroke.

If you can join a big enough club that has lots of lanes operating with varying abilities that's where you should head. Swimming with a buddy or in a group will do wonders for your swimming, but the standard has to be compatible.

If he can barely do 50m short course (assuming) swimming with others unless its technique based will merely serve to reinforce bad habits.

If you don't have a local club, just go to a local pool and ask if they put a lane in. Go when the lane is in and make a swimming buddy.

Joining a masters club would be a great idea.

If you can't get going with any of that, put your fins on and try swimming farther. Increase your endurance.

Fins are for kicking drills, nothing else.
Bad idea to use them to swim furhter.
Anyone remember the choice words Ray Darcy had about his swimming coach who got him to train with fins and then got him to take them off two weeks before his first triathlon
?

Every sport requires a level of endurance which you can only acquire by participating. Swimming especially. This is really because swimming requires specific muscles to be (aerobically) fit. Added to this, your breathing has to be controlled (syncronised with your stroke) to be an efficient swimmer. Again, practice is the only way to improve.

If its all about fitness why can fat old men hammer me over 400m when it might take them over an hour to walk 10km and I can do it in low 30s? Swimming is ALL about technique to a point, when the OP comes back talking about how to get from 28-24 minutes for 1500m then we will talk fitness.

Build the endurance up over time by shortening your rest period/increasing distance/doing sets/varying your workouts and drills. When you can keep in going for 10 to 15mins at any pace with good form you are ready to do speed work. And you should always be in control of your stroke. If ' everything goes to pot' (I think you said ) you're going too hard. Ease off.

Sounds advice - if your stroke breaks down, stop, rest, go again. You are trying to learn a very technical thing and it will take time and effort but its worth it in the end.

A good master club will at the very least hook you up with someone to help you learn more quickly.

DustyBin wrote: »

Tunney you're right, proper lessons would surely make a big difference and ideally I'd have got the swimming sorted out over the winter. I did some group adult lessons but got very little out of them other than pool time. I'd like now to go for some one-one lessons but would like more time to commit to the swimming than I currently do until after the marathon in cork. In the meantime I'm just trying to keep going and improve a little if I can. Do you have any suggestions for what I should be trying to do on a 2 day a week 45 - 50 min a day basis? Thanks

I'd read about swimming stroke from some online resources, I'd think about every stroke that I make and how I think that that relates to what I have read. I would accept that it will be a frustrating exercise but ultimately worth while. I personally found the bbc.co.uk swim skills site very good for everything from tumbles to freestyle.

DustyBin

Thanks for taking the time to reply there people

gerardduff wrote: »

If you can join a big enough club that has lots of lanes operating with varying abilities that's where you should head. Swimming with a buddy or in a group will do wonders for your swimming, but the standard has to be compatible.

Local pool has one lane in 'most of the time', but it's grand really cos it's not ever that busy when I go down. Tried looking around for some sort of swimming club but the only one I can find is for kids - not sure they'd appreciate me turning up :pac: It's just me on my own after that. There's some lads I know that will be doing some open water swimming over the summer, they're miles ahead of me but looking forard to getting out with them again.

gerardduff wrote: »

Build the endurance up over time by shortening your rest period/increasing distance/doing sets/varying your workouts and drills. When you can keep in going for 10 to 15mins at any pace with good form you are ready to do speed work. And you should always be in control of your stroke. If ' everything goes to pot' (I think you said ) you're going too hard. Ease off.

Sounds like practice so

ir666 wrote: »

DB,

if you can swim 50m then rest.

Why not throw in some 75m & rest etc.

The main thing is to slow down and relax relax relax!

As others have said , swimming with others or a club etc would be a great idea.

But the main thing that helped me was to go super slow and relaxed and build slowly.

Best of luck.

I find it fairly difficult to relax for whatever reason. Will work on the building slowly.

tunney wrote: »

I know where he is coming from and I know that he needs more than a few "drills and sets" - he needs someone to develop his stroke.

I think your right BTW, I just don't really think I've the time to commit to lessons at the minute, and am lookin for something to keep me ticking over. Fair point about reinforcing bad technique. Hopefully secman's mega offer will give me a few key pointers for improving stroke.

tunney wrote: »

I'd read about swimming stroke from some online resources, I'd think about every stroke that I make and how I think that that relates to what I have read. I would accept that it will be a frustrating exercise but ultimately worth while. I personally found the bbc.co.uk swim skills site very good for everything from tumbles to freestyle.

Thanks for the bbc tip. I've spent a lot of time on/off over the past 4 months or so reading books and websites, all with slightly different advice, and then having to put up with a daft excuse for lessons I've gotten very disheartened about swimming. It's feckin hard work trying to learn.




Will take on board what you have all said - thanks

DustyBin

secman wrote: »

Hi Dusty,

As I said in my PM, I'll be at the leisure centre in Courtown on Sunday morning at 10 to do a session.
I do appreciate where you are at the moment in the swimming, but I think I can be of some help to you.
I used to be a Triathlete in a previous life from 89 to 99 !, but these days I am crocked and am only able for the swims now.

In the next month or so I will be getting in to the sea at Cahore, last year I helped a local girl to train for the Olympic Eireman event, she was quite nervous of getting in to the sea , especially on her own. As you all know the swim section was cancelled !

Anyways I'll be there on Sunday, most probably tired from my Sat session (long one usually)

Secman

Secman this is deadly thanks. I'll be there at the pool for 10, I'll send you another PM to arrange.

My wife may be a bit nervous about me meeting up with some stranger off the internet down by the pool, and I'm sure she's right to be cautious but feck it - I'm there . Just please don't turn up wearing shades and a trench coat, if I see that going on by the poolside I'm gone. Oh and no 'meeting by the sauna/jacuzzi/family changing rooms' ok?

Joking, see you Sunday, thanks again.

DustyBin

Thanks for all the help above, but has anyone any suggestion as to how I should build drills into 2 days a week?
I mean should I devote one of the days to drills and the other day to straight swimming, or mix it up both days?
Also, what drills do you think would be most beneficial?

Or maybe just forget the drills altogether?

Thanks

Tinder

Swimming for hours on end with bad technique will only get you injured, sore shoulders and a rotar cuff injury.

I would recommend pyramid sets. 1lap followed by 2laps, 3laps, 4laps, 5laps and have a good rest in between, then do 5laps, 4laps, 3 laps, 2laps and 1lap. do it all on time is the key, do them at a normal pace, no sprinting, this is all about pacing yourself.

Try and get the sets (1,2,3,4,5) and (5,4,3,2,1) in and around the same time, slow everything down and really concentrate on getting the stroke efficient and the elbow high on recovery. This will also teach you your pace which is both difficult and important if a tri is your aim, no point in lashing off in the swim (which is easy to do) and end up really bunced for the last 50m.

Also if you can join a Masters Club do. I can swim well and have been swimming since I was a nipper but learn something new all the time with my Masters Club, the smallest changes in a stroke can make the world of difference.

good luck

Every time you go swimming do it to the clock. otherwise you end up swimming aimlessly.

DustyBin

Burkatron has posted up a link on the swimming forum to a couple of swim programmes that I think are very useful if like me you're trying to increase your distance in the pool

The first one Zero to 1650 in 6 weeks assumes that you can swim a 4 x 100m lengths

The second one Zero to 700 would appear to suit those not able to swim 100's

This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for a few weeks back, so maybe it might help others in the same position?



btw, met up with secman at the pool afterwards, and following a few simple pointers and lots of patience and encouragement he set me off comfortably doing 75's and 100's. Am now up to 200's and looking forward to launching into the second week of the above plan