Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

TheRevolution

profitius wrote: »

In a world cup game with 20 min to go Rory Best gets an injury. Who would you rather see coming on. Varley/Cronin or a less than fully fit Flannery? I know who I'd choose.

I would definitely want Cronin or Varley to come on. Flannery hasn't played in 2 years he would probably struggle in the AIL currently let alone the Magners or god forbid the World Cup.

Amazotheamazing

keane2097 wrote: »

Why in the world would the length of the flight be important?

Long haul flights are bad for injuries and can put strain on muscles, afaik. Could be way off of course, it's not an area I pretend to be an expert on.

smurphy29

As much as I'd love a fit and firing Flannery at the World Cup, I think this is curtains. It's all well and good saying he's 'better than Best' but the fact of the matter is he's 33 and hasn't played in two yers, so such statements are meanigless.

There is the additional danger that putting him in contention for a RWC could see him forcing it a bit, which is the last thing he needs.

We don't know for sure if he'll ever really return to anything like the force he was. A shame for a class player.

PhatPiggins

keane2097 wrote: »

Why in the world would the length of the flight be important?

High altitude and lack of mobility can exacerbate some injuries.

Won't pretend to be an expert on the matter

edit. jeez you need to be quick to get an answer in here

keane2097

The effect of that at the end of a three month rehab program (which would obv have to have gone close to perfectly for this argument to matter) would be vanishingly small.

PhatPiggins

keane2097 wrote: »

The effect of that at the end of a three month rehab program (which would obv have to have gone close to perfectly for this argument to matter) would be vanishingly small.

Good news for him then

Amazotheamazing

keane2097 wrote: »

The effect of that at the end of a three month rehab program (which would obv have to have gone close to perfectly for this argument to matter) would be vanishingly small.

I'm not so sure. His body is wreck.

Wasn't it the long haul flight to the far side of Russia that Woody in part blames for his early-ish retirement? We'd to go there for a qualifying game and the flight caused an injury to flare up?

thomond2006

Dave Ryan is to have elbow surgery.

-From the Evening Echo, mentioned in an article on Quinny's retirement.

Podge_irl

Regardless of whether the length of the flight exacerbates the injury, there is also the matter that it will take a good deal longer to replace Flannery should he get injured again. I wouldn't even think of bringing him to the world cup til he has a few months of rugby behind him, and that's just not possible.

Amazotheamazing

thomond2006 wrote: »

Dave Ryan is to have elbow surgery.

-From the Evening Echo, mentioned in an article on Quinny's retirement.

Would be surprised if Ryan is kept on, he's just not getting enough gametime.

TheRevolution

He is constantly injured, can't see him making it unfortunately.

[Jackass]

To be honest, I don't think Quinlan is the only person who wont be in Munster squad next season, Flannery, who'll be 33 at the begining of next season, just coming back from almost 2 years of injury, and having had surgery to fix it, I'm surprised if he'll be given the all clear to come back.

Even if he does, will he ever be the same player again? He's one injury away from enforced retirement, I think the mind is fit, but the body has given up.

We've missed him a lot for Ireland, but I'm not sure he'll ever be up to pro-fitness level again, or would be the same player at 33 and trying to refind fitness after such a long lay-off.

I think Varley has stepped up well and would hold off Flannery for the jersey.

Any news on if Wally is going to play on post world cup? He's 35 in a couple of months.

Hyperbullet

Shame about Ryan, poor fella is constantly injured.

CouchSmart

Any word on signings for next season, Ulster and Leinster have made their announcements this week but it's all quiet down south. I've heard talk that Botha can't bend his elbow anymore so may have to retire and if I remember correctly the Munster press release, about him moving, keenly mentioning that it's dependent on a physical - naturally.

thomond2006

[Jackass] wrote: »

Any news on if Wally is going to play on post world cup? He's 35 in a couple of months.

He signed a one year deal so he'll be playing with Munster next season after RWC.

Sin a bhfuil

thomond2006 wrote: »

He signed a one year deal so he'll be playing with Munster next season after RWC.

Not just Munster, he will be with Ireland for one more year as well as he got a central contract.

CouchSmart

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

Not just Munster, he will be with Ireland for one more year as well as he got a central contract.

Nope, he's on a provincial contract, the signing was announced by Munster. Obviously he can still play for Ireland, he's just not centrally contracted.

Sin a bhfuil

CouchSmart wrote: »

Nope, he's on a provincial contract, the signing was announced by Munster. Obviously he can still play for Ireland, he's just not centrally contracted.

From the IRFU website: http://www.irishrugby.ie/provincial/news/22343.php

It has been confirmed that David Wallace has agreed a contract extension with the IRFU and Munster Rugby until the end of 2011/12 season.





David Wallace, who made his debut for Munster in August 1997, will now vie with Ronan O'Gara to become the fourth Munster player to reach 200 caps. Wallace, 34, commented on his contract extension from the Ireland camp in Dublin earlier today.
He said: "I'm very happy that we've agreed terms for another season. I'm enjoying my rugby right now. I feel I've plenty to offer and look forward to helping Munster and Ireland achieve success."

I must say I was surprised that he got a central contract considering Sean O'Brien didn't.

CouchSmart

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

From the IRFU website: http://www.irishrugby.ie/provincial/news/22343.php



I must say I was surprised that he got a central contract considering Sean O'Brien didn't.

Look at what category it's under, 'provincial'.

Some recently signed international contracts for example:

http://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/22729.php
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/21716.php
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/22054.php
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/20954.php

Provincial contracts:

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/21765.php
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/22343.php

Not that it matters..

CIARAN_BOYLE

CouchSmart wrote: »

Look at what category it's under, 'provincial'.

exactly a central contract would be listed as under the Ireland category

http://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/22729.php

Sin a bhfuil

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

exactly a central contract would be listed as under the Ireland category

http://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/22729.php

It could be misfilled. Read what the press release says:

Provincial contracts

.... Lock Dan Tuohy, who earned his first Ireland cap against New Zealand last June, has signed a new two-year deal with Ulster, while prop .....

Sean O'Brien among quintet to sign new Leinster deals
Ireland internationals Sean O'Brien, Shane Jennings and Devin Toner are among five players to agree new contracts with Leinster.Back row players O'Brien and Jennings have signed three-year contract extensions while lock Toner has agreed a new two-year deal.

Wallace's contract:

Wallace Pens Contract Extension

It has been confirmed that David Wallace has agreed a contract extension with the IRFU and Munster Rugby until the end of 2011/12 season.

Note Wallace penned an Extension (of his central contract).

buck65

GerM wrote: »

The likes of Coughlan, Horan (great servant but in reality serves little purpose other than holding back Darragh Hurley now), Billy Holland, Niall Ronan, Tom Gleeson and Duncan Williams are all players that had potential but the window of opportunity has passed with younger players now showing more potential than them. The likes of POM, Butler, Hurley, Nagle, Dineen and Murray should now be filtered in along side the first team players slowly to see if they've got what it takes. I realise some of the players I named are good players and have shown up well this season but I don't believe they're potentially better than those they're holding back.

First off Coughlan has been one of our most consistent backrows for the past 2 seasons and nearly always plays well. Can't believe you don't rate him.
Marcus Horan has played shag all rugby for the past season and a bit and hasn't held anyone back as he has rarely played himself and is only used now as cover.
Billy Holland covers second and back row and with alot of our squad away next year a guy like that is valuable - also hasn't been given enough chances , from what I've seen he is a decent player.
Duncan Williams is 4th choice scrum half now so isn't a factor, Niall Ronan is a decent player to have on the books as well not physical enough for me but certainly worth his place in the squad. Tom Gleeson has been unlucky this season as he missed agood bit and maybe it was his chance to shine, agreed probably not good enough though.
Nagle, Hurley (always seems to be injured), Murray and POM have all had gametime this season and have grown in stature because of it.

GerM

buck65 wrote: »

First off Coughlan has been one of our most consistent backrows for the past 2 seasons and nearly always plays well. Can't believe you don't rate him.
Marcus Horan has played shag all rugby for the past season and a bit and hasn't held anyone back as he has rarely played himself and is only used now as cover.
Billy Holland covers second and back row and with alot of our squad away next year a guy like that is valuable - also hasn't been given enough chances , from what I've seen he is a decent player.
Duncan Williams is 4th choice scrum half now so isn't a factor, Niall Ronan is a decent player to have on the books as well not physical enough for me but certainly worth his place in the squad. Tom Gleeson has been unlucky this season as he missed agood bit and maybe it was his chance to shine, agreed probably not good enough though.
Nagle, Hurley (always seems to be injured), Murray and POM have all had gametime this season and have grown in stature because of it.

I rate Coughlan. He's quite underrated in the same manner that Dowling was but he's not top class nor will he ever be. He's also the wrong side of 30. Horan will be on the bench ahead of young players and will prevent other props getting exposure; someone like Hurley can do an equally good job if not better at this point. Billy Holland is almost 26 and, whilst showing well in a few ML games, is not going to establish himself as a front line player. Duncan Williams has only been overtaken by Murray in recent times. If Murray had started a game such as the Wallabies it would have been fantastic experience for him. I've seen them share a pitch as well as seeing them both on their own a fair few times now and I don't know how the coaching could rate Williams ahead of Murray at any stage. Niall Ronan is a decent player but, again is holding back the likes of POM. Ronan isn't of a sufficient quality to play international or top end HEC rugby. Gleeson is just taking up a squad place at this stage but Munster don't have a huge amount of players coming through in his position.

I'm not necessarily saying these players should be cut loose but they should not be used ahead of the younger players when there's a choice. Horan should be used like Ronan McCormack was in his final playing days. Only when needed and other players are not an option. The same could be said of Ronan. Coughlan should be kept in and around the team as he is a decent workhorse. These middle tier players though should have a similar input as Stephen Keogh does in Leinster these days. Good man to have around the squad but not used unless required.

It's a lot easier to look at it from the outside in a dispassionate manner but there can't be any room for sentimentality if Munster are to return to past glories as quickly as possible.

buck65

GerM wrote: »

I rate Coughlan. He's quite underrated in the same manner that Dowling was but he's not top class nor will he ever be. He's also the wrong side of 30. Horan will be on the bench ahead of young players and will prevent other props getting exposure; someone like Hurley can do an equally good job if not better at this point. Billy Holland is almost 26 and, whilst showing well in a few ML games, is not going to establish himself as a front line player. Duncan Williams has only been overtaken by Murray in recent times. If Murray had started a game such as the Wallabies it would have been fantastic experience for him. I've seen them share a pitch as well as seeing them both on their own a fair few times now and I don't know how the coaching could rate Williams ahead of Murray at any stage. Niall Ronan is a decent player but, again is holding back the likes of POM. Ronan isn't of a sufficient quality to play international or top end HEC rugby. Gleeson is just taking up a squad place at this stage but Munster don't have a huge amount of players coming through in his position.

I'm not necessarily saying these players should be cut loose but they should not be used ahead of the younger players when there's a choice. Horan should be used like Ronan McCormack was in his final playing days. Only when needed and other players are not an option. The same could be said of Ronan. Coughlan should be kept in and around the team as he is a decent workhorse. These middle tier players though should have a similar input as Stephen Keogh does in Leinster these days. Good man to have around the squad but not used unless required.

It's a lot easier to look at it from the outside in a dispassionate manner but there can't be any room for sentimentality if Munster are to return to past glories as quickly as possible.

But the thing is the players you are promoting are already there so I just see that getting rid of a few players such as Ronan, Gleeson, Horan, Williams, Holland, Couglan and replacing them with guys like Dineeen, Hurley, Nagle Butler etc. All that does IMO is weaken our squad by reducing numbers.
Munster to relive their past glories have to open the chequebook and sign a TH, centre, backrow because none of those guys you mention are good enough to turn this team around. Leinster seem to have no problem recruiting players even with their much vaunted academy.
Yes, a large cull of so-so players is needed but with so many of our squad going to retire or b away for half of next season I think I would be careful of who we jettison unless we have cover coming.

GerM

buck65 wrote: »

But the thing is the players you are promoting are already there so I just see that getting rid of a few players such as Ronan, Gleeson, Horan, Williams, Holland, Couglan and replacing them with guys like Dineeen, Hurley, Nagle Butler etc. All that does IMO is weaken our squad by reducing numbers.
Munster to relive their past glories have to open the chequebook and sign a TH, centre, backrow because none of those guys you mention are good enough to turn this team around. Leinster seem to have no problem recruiting players even with their much vaunted academy.
Yes, a large cull of so-so players is needed but with so many of our squad going to retire or b away for half of next season I think I would be careful of who we jettison unless we have cover coming.

Agreed, but I said that some of the players shouldn't be cut loose, just not used ahead of the younger lads who are potentially much better players. Munster have already signed a TH and I believe in Butler and POM they have two future Irish internationals who are good enough to play a role in turning the team around. They will need to sign a centre but I'm sure that's already in the pipeline.

profitius

buck65 wrote: »

But the thing is the players you are promoting are already there so I just see that getting rid of a few players such as Ronan, Gleeson, Horan, Williams, Holland, Couglan and replacing them with guys like Dineeen, Hurley, Nagle Butler etc. All that does IMO is weaken our squad by reducing numbers.
Munster to relive their past glories have to open the chequebook and sign a TH, centre, backrow because none of those guys you mention are good enough to turn this team around. Leinster seem to have no problem recruiting players even with their much vaunted academy.
Yes, a large cull of so-so players is needed but with so many of our squad going to retire or b away for half of next season I think I would be careful of who we jettison unless we have cover coming.

So you want Munster to continue on the way they're going? ie backwards.

Its time to cut the middle tier players from the squad and stop relying on the chequebook to paper over the cracks.

By all means sign some top quality players but its vital that the young players are developed quicker than whats happening. You can't have young players waiting for years to get a decent run of games. They might as well scrap the academy if they're going to do that.

I also think the squad is far too big. They seem to be signing more players and letting nobody go as of yet. So if it continues the way its going the likes of Nagle, TOD and Danny Barnes will have less games next season.

Keep the old heads and proven performers. Cut the middle tier of players. Those who have not progressed to HEC level. That'll pave the way for the younger players to progress quicker and strengthen the team.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Munster have a squad of 45 players on development or full contracts for this season. Leinster have a squad of 39 contracted players this season while Ulster have a squad of 35 contracted players.

Munster could easily cut any player who is 25 or older and isn't in the HEC first choice 23.

I don't deny that Billy Holland, Niall Ronan, Donnacha Ryan and others aren't good players. In fact I think the reason that Munster are doing well in the ML is because of these decent players who are played regularly since it gives Munster an incredible amount of depth. In fact I think Munster may be the largest squad in the ML, and this depth helps them in the ML since they can put out a decent squad for everygame.

Sin a bhfuil

Most the Munster academy players/on the fringes of Munster are all playing top level AIL - its not as if they are not getting a fair bit of competitive gametime. A lot of those mentioned like Murray & Nagle have only emerged this year, so its hard to dump players like Peter Stringer just now, as he has got a contract.

Its fairly easy to shuffle the backs around (like McFadden to the wing), not so easy to have a hooker playing as a prop or lock.

Leroy Lita

is there any news on anymore Munster signings for next season??
Conrad Smith said before Christmas that hid be interested in going to Munster? any chance of that happening?

GerM

Leroy Lita wrote: »

is there any news on anymore Munster signings for next season??
Conrad Smith said before Christmas that hid be interested in going to Munster? any chance of that happening?

Smith said the idea of moving to Munster would appeal at some point in the future. He's contracted until 2012 so it would be more likely this time next year for something to happen.