Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Amazotheamazing

Strange days when Munster are producing speedy wingers.

theKramer

Whats the world coming to. Leinster producing forwards and Munster producing backs... :eek:

Tox56

Leinster are producing them too, Carr, Conway, Kearney et al. Ireland should have some choice in the back three in the coming years.

CiaranMT

vinny chase wrote: »

Duncan Williams is really poor; in that clip he either takes a step and a half with the ball on every single pass; or the two he does sweep from the ground he misses the first receiver entirely and grounds the ball.

I don't think Williams should be judged on a four minute clip, personally.

Amazotheamazing

Tox56 wrote: »

Leinster are producing them too, Carr, Conway, Kearney et al. Ireland should have some choice in the back three in the coming years.

Funny how it goes, Kearney was starring in the AIL at the same time as Earls, Earls has since gone on a Lions tour and is an Irish starter and Conway had a much better Irish underage career than either Zebo or TOH, but both have gotten serious HEC time this season and benefitted from it. Zebo and TOH are currently first choice for their provinces while Conway isn't, just yet. I think Conway will be something special though.

vinny chase

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Funny how it goes, Kearney was starring in the AIL at the same time as Earls, Earls has since gone on a Lions tour and is an Irish starter and Conway had a much better Irish underage career than either Zebo or TOH, but both have gotten serious HEC time this season and benefitted from it. Zebo and TOH are currently first choice for their provinces while Conway isn't, just yet. I think Conway will be something special though.

Well, what you're aren't taking into account here is that Leinster have been one of the best backlines in Europe for the past few years; and their back three in particular has been full of stars and Irish internationals.

Because Zebo and TOH are first choice for their provinces doesn't mean at all that they are better players than David Kearney or Andrew Conway, simply that their provinces don't have as much talent in that position imo.

jacothelad

vinny chase wrote: »

Well, what you're aren't taking into account here is that Leinster have been one of the best backlines in Europe for the past few years; and their back three in particular has been full of stars and Irish internationals.

Because Zebo and TOH are first choice for their provinces doesn't mean at all that they are better players than David Kearney or Andrew Conway, simply that their provinces don't have as much talent in that position imo.

Zebo got his break because of the unfortunate injury to Howlett. If Douigie was still fit Zebo would be 2nd fiddle. TOH probably wouldn't be 1st choice at another province as yet.

I give you......................."Simon Danielli".

Once a decent player but now on the downhill slope and still probably McLaughlin's first choice 11 while clearly there are better wingers - about 6 - in the squad and academy.

Amazotheamazing

vinny chase wrote: »

Well, what you're aren't taking into account here is that Leinster have been one of the best backlines in Europe for the past few years; and their back three in particular has been full of stars and Irish internationals.

Because Zebo and TOH are first choice for their provinces doesn't mean at all that they are better players than David Kearney or Andrew Conway, simply that their provinces don't have as much talent in that position imo.

I'm not saying anything about who's better or worse, just that some very talented guys are waiting on benches in Leinster.

Podge_irl

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I'm not saying anything about who's better or worse, just that some very talented guys are waiting on benches in Leinster.

It's an interesting one. I can only see the provincial academies getting better and more productive and there are going to be a lot more young players stuck on benches or not in squads.

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I'm not saying anything about who's better or worse, just that some very talented guys are waiting on benches in Leinster.

It's an interesting one. I can only see the provincial academies getting better and more productive and there are going to be a lot more young players stuck on benches or not in squads.

That's what Doncasters for!

Or if not they could always go to... Connacht...

Tox56

I know this is OT, but when should Nacewa start to be phased out for Leinster in the big games? There are all those wingers waiting to have a chance, and Nacewa can never be IQ. He is an extremely important player, but it has to happen sometime, or surely the young talent won't wait around.

CIARAN_BOYLE

jacothelad wrote: »

ZI give you......................."Simon Danielli".

Once a decent player but now on the downhill slope and still probably McLaughlin's first choice 11 while clearly there are better wingers - about 6 - in the squad and academy.

Just five starts this season two in the heineken where he played at 15

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Funny how it goes, Kearney was starring in the AIL at the same time as Earls, Earls has since gone on a Lions tour and is an Irish starter and Conway had a much better Irish underage career than either Zebo or TOH, but both have gotten serious HEC time this season and benefitted from it. Zebo and TOH are currently first choice for their provinces while Conway isn't, just yet. I think Conway will be something special though.

I hope you are right about Conway, he has gotten injured during the last two international windows which is when he should have gotten a chance to establish himself had he been fit during the 6Ns last year and the RWC this year I'd say he would be in the HEC 23 now perhaps even starting for Leinster now

WeeBushy

Tox56 wrote: »

I know this is OT, but when should Nacewa start to be phased out for Leinster in the big games? There are all those wingers waiting to have a chance, and Nacewa can never be IQ. He is an extremely important player, but it has to happen sometime, or surely the young talent won't wait around.

It would be on topic for the Leinster thread, however

Tox56

WeeBushy wrote: »

It would be on topic for the Leinster thread, however

I thought about it, but there was a discussion about up and coming wingers, so I was brave and took the risk.

Fireball07

jacothelad wrote: »

Zebo got his break because of the unfortunate injury to Howlett. If Douigie was still fit Zebo would be 2nd fiddle. TOH probably wouldn't be 1st choice at another province as yet.

I give you......................."Simon Danielli".

Once a decent player but now on the downhill slope and still probably McLaughlin's first choice 11 while clearly there are better wingers - about 6 - in the squad and academy.

Would he really? I'd like to think Zebo would be ahead of Murphy. He'd have been given some chance anyway and if he took it, he'd be in the team. And he's been fairly impressive in the HC. McGahan started Barnes when he took his chance last year, and the same with POM this year.

Podge_irl

Fireball07 wrote: »

Would he really? I'd like to think Zebo would be ahead of Murphy.

Well he wasn't even in the 23 for the first two games.

Plenty of players get their break from injuries anyway

danthefan

Zebo definitely got his chance because of injury. Nothing wrong with that in this particular case, it's the way a lot of players get a break. He's obviously doing really well with all the gametime so hopefully he'll keep getting games when Howlett and Jones are back.

Fireball07

Podge_irl wrote: »

Well he wasn't even in the 23 for the first two games.

Plenty of players get their break from injuries anyway

I know yeah...most players do, really.

But I dunno...Zebo's always looked fairly threatening in the pro12 and surely in training he must outshine Murphy who is pretty much the definition of average. A solid enough squad player, and he's versatile enough but he doesn't offer anything special like Zebo's pace or Hurley's hands.

profitius

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's an interesting one. I can only see the provincial academies getting better and more productive and there are going to be a lot more young players stuck on benches or not in squads.

Thats what I've been saying all the time in Connacht threads. with the exception of a few positions Irish rugby is stronger than ever and the provincial squads are getting bigger and younger all the time. Its only a matter of time before you see players actively seeking to go to connacht instead of turning them down.

Podge_irl

profitius wrote: »

Thats what I've been saying all the time in Connacht threads. with the exception of a few positions Irish rugby is stronger than ever and the provincial squads are getting bigger and younger all the time. Its only a matter of time before you see players actively seeking to go to connacht instead of turning them down.

I'd be worried that they'll actively seek to move to England rather then Connacht. There needs to be a certain amount of work done to make sure Connacht is a good proposition for them. But I agree in general - if you look at a team like Leinster they have a very strong and more importantly, young team and they're still churning out players. Munster will be in a similar position in 3 years or so I imagine. The likes of Zebo and POM are getting their break now, but similar players will struggle in a few years.

CatFromHue

profitius wrote: »

Thats what I've been saying all the time in Connacht threads. with the exception of a few positions Irish rugby is stronger than ever and the provincial squads are getting bigger and younger all the time. Its only a matter of time before you see players actively seeking to go to connacht instead of turning them down.

Central contracts are great and have done alot for Irish rugby. They do have a down side in that they reduce player movement. The free market in Fra, NZ, SA, Aus, Scot, and Eng actively helps player movement (e.g. once players get to a certain age or are not in contention for an international place they move). As the various academy's grow stronger it will inevitable that players will have to move west to get game time.

Amazotheamazing

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'd be worried that they'll actively seek to move to England rather then Connacht. There needs to be a certain amount of work done to make sure Connacht is a good proposition for them. But I agree in general - if you look at a team like Leinster they have a very strong and more importantly, young team and they're still churning out players. Munster will be in a similar position in 3 years or so I imagine. The likes of Zebo and POM are getting their break now, but similar players will struggle in a few years.

I don't think there's anything too wrong with players trying their luck in England or France for a few seasons. it'd be great to see a young backrower learning their trade in the top14, for example.

thomond2006

Credit to Chambers for putting in a serious shift for the As. Best of luck to him in the NRL.

Amazotheamazing

So, Ruddock eh, do we need him, do we want him?

He looks very strong but surprisingly slow, does he have the power you need to go with his bulk?

irishbucsfan

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

So, Ruddock eh, do we need him, do we want him?

He looks very strong but surprisingly slow, does he have the power you need to go with his bulk?

Hes incredibly strong. Probably the most naturally strong person in the Irish camp.

I don't personally rate him too highly as an 8. He's not a good enough carrier because of his pace/technique. If he does go to Munster I would like to see him playing 6 exclusively with Coughlan at 8 and OMahoney at 7 with Leamy covering. That's a strong back row. Then hopefully Butler will come through as well.

thomond2006

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

So, Ruddock eh, do we need him, do we want him?

He looks very strong but surprisingly slow, does he have the power you need to go with his bulk?

I think we need a backrower anyway, it remains to be seen if Wallace will play on after this season and Leamy keeps getting serious injuries. Coughlan turned 31 in December, you would wonder how long he can play at his current level of performance.

Amazotheamazing

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Hes incredibly strong. Probably the most naturally strong person in the Irish camp.

I don't personally rate him too highly as an 8. He's not a good enough carrier because of his pace/technique. If he does go to Munster I would like to see him playing 6 exclusively with Coughlan at 8 and OMahoney at 7 with Leamy covering. That's a strong back row. Then hopefully Butler will come through as well.

John Hayes was incredibly strong, didn't make him into a backrow though. It's more than strength you need. If he's not fast enough to be a decent 8, is he fast enough to be a good 6?

Benny Cake

I think the question is, would he start for Munster in the Heineken Cup? For me, the answer is yes. Added to that, the fact that he's young & Irish qualified makes him even more appealing. With all these considered, he would be an excellent addition to the Munster set-up.

irishbucsfan

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

John Hayes was incredibly strong, didn't make him into a backrow though. It's more than strength you need. If he's not fast enough to be a decent 8, is he fast enough to be a good 6?

Correct. John Hayes was not a back row...

I don't think pace is nearly as essential at 6 because you aren't going to be carrying from a standing start. Look at Easterby, look at Richard Hill. Ruddock has everything a great 6 needs but I don't think the same can be said for him as an 8 yet. He is still very young though.

profitius

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

So, Ruddock eh, do we need him, do we want him?

He looks very strong but surprisingly slow, does he have the power you need to go with his bulk?

Hes very strong but not very fast. A good player but I don't know if he'll turn into the player some people think yet. He looks like a 6 more than a 7 or 8 and Munster have DOC2, Shane Buckley, Leamy and POM (I'd like to see him play 7) for that position. Ruddock is good at the breakdown which is always a bonus.