Catholic dating Muslim

marinchik

Hi All,

Maybe someone had same experience and would love some thoughts on it. I have recently started dating a very nice man from Egypt and he is Muslim. I on the other hand am catholic and never dated man of a different religion before. The thing is, I keep hear all these stories about how badly Muslim men can treat their women, that they have to do everything for them, can’t disagree on anything and all. Saying that, the fella I’m dating treats me really well, I’m really happy when I am with him and miss him a lot when he is away. But my friends keep saying: “Oh yeah, just wait until you get married and then he’ll show you the true Muslim, when he’ll know he has you.” I haven’t told my parents about him, as I believe they will never approve of this union and this is killing me, in light of this I was even thinking to break things off, but never could, as I like him so much….
I’m really torn between whether to listen to what people have to say or whether listen to my heart….

Emme

It wasn't so long ago when a non-Catholic who married a Catholic was pressured to convert to Catholicism or failing that, had to bring up their children as Catholics. Islam has the same mindset nowadays. If you do marry this guy he will probably encourage you to convert to Islam and adopt the lifestyle of a Muslim woman but I'm not sure how rigid they are about dress codes in Egypt.

I work with Muslims and see them around town and to be honest I think that they treat their women very well, in many cases with more respect than Irish men.

taram

I've a few Muslim friends, though all girls, and with the exception of one who refuses to date outside Islam, they're all very willingly to learn about new cultures and religions and never force their beliefs on anyone.

Saying all Muslim men treat women badly is like saying all Christians are the same: like Mormans are the same as Catholics: yeah same book and god, but completly different mindsets and ways to treat people outside their religion.

Take your man on his own pros and cons! Any man can turn around and be a house devil/street angel, it doesn't take a religion to make him so!

Contessa Raven

Hi OP,

I would advise against listening to your friends. Yes, it is true that some Muslims treat their women appallingly but by the same token, Catholics have done some pretty horrific things too.

You can only judge this man by his actions and his words. Your friends are judging him by his faith. That is hardly fair. How would they feel if someone wouldn't go out with them because "All Catholics are child abusers?"

I have some Muslim friends (one is devout, the other is a practicing one but only when it suits iykwim) and they are some of the nicest people I have ever met. They really are accepting of our differences and never force their opinions on us. They hear of the abuse some women endure in some Muslim cultures and they recoil in horror.

I asked them before about inter-faith marriages and one of them told me that it is not necesssity but that it is preferred. Just like it is with Catholics, they also require that the children be brought up as Muslim.

To tar them all with the same brush is unfair. There are some Muslims out there who do not practice their faith and have no interest in doing so.

I would recommend reading up about Islam itself and maybe even Islam in Egypt/Egyptian society. It may give you good insight into how the culture there ties in with the religion.

CR

marinchik

Thank you all for your replies,

I completely agree that every person is individual and would not think that all Muslim are violent and aggressive, not at all. What makes me sad, that all my friends seems to think they are, and its like: you stay with him, you’ll regret. They sort of are forcing me to choose between him and them. Recently I was invited to a friend’s birthday party and it was made clear that my boyfriend is not welcome! I have no problem with religion itself, I was reading into Islam lately, and have no problem to raise my children as Muslim. But it feels like I have to prove to everyone that I am actually happy with a Muslim man…

Honestly, I don't think you're friends are entirely wrong. I grew up in an area of England with lots of Muslims, and I think every single one of the English women I knew who married Muslim men ended up divorcing them and having a lengthy fight for the kids. They all did change after the wedding, becoming stricter, expecting the wives to convert or conform, many of them wanted to take on a second wife etc. People will tell you not to tar people with the same brush but honestly, I think there's a very good reason those ideas about Muslim men exist. I have a lot of Muslim friends here in London, male and female, and honestly, I don't think I'd ever get with one of the guys romantically. They might have been born here and seem Westernised, but their faith and way of thinking is really deeply ingrained. Of course, if the guy is just Muslim by culture and doesn't practise it at all, it's a different story, but don't be fooled by the fact he doesn't seem strict. A lot of the guys I know go out loads, have girlfriends, smoke weed, but down the line they will want a nice Muslim girl who conforms to their ideals - no short skirts, no drinking, no previous sexual partners. I'm not an Islamophobe, I've been around Muslims all my life and some of my closest girlfriends are Muslim but I'd tread very carefully if I ever got into a relationship with a Muslim guy.

S23

My biggest concern would be that you start your post with "I have recently started dating a very nice man from Egypt and he is Muslim".

Yet in the course of your posts you manage to talk about or touch on marriage, moving to Egypt and raising your children as Muslim.

I'm all for learning about different cultures but how about you take a big chill pill and just enjoy things for what they are at the moment. Sure it may turn out to be the greatest love story ever told and you may ride off into the sunset together. However, it may just be another person that you date that ends after a while.

My advice is relax yourself a bit. I'd say your friends are worried if you are talking about marriage and babies and moving country to them and I wouldn't blame them either if you have only started seeing this lad.

Take your time and let the relationship progress. You will find out the true content of his character in due course.

Its sad that your friends are giving you a hard time about this and of course you should always do what you feel is right. However, maybe, just maybe, you have them worried that you are about to rush into something major without thinking too much about it?

LegacyUser

Hi Op,I would say to you that sure everyone is lovely when a relationship starts out.
All Muslims put their religion before everything.On top of that this is basically how it works there.
Women have traditionally been preoccupied with household tasks and child rearing and have rarely had opportunities for contact with men outside the family.
I hate saying this but majority of Muslim men do turn to controlling women.Not allowed to speak to other men unless family or close friends of the family.You become a property and no drinking dancing in clubs etc.. would be condoned.In Egypt you would have to dress as the women in his family dress.
I don't doubt nice guy who is treating you good.But you are in early stages of relationship.
How you will know,watch for over irrational jealousy and trying to stop you from having girl mates or guy mates etc...
You will feel the alarms warnings take heed if you do feel them!
But what more than can be definite if you do stay with him and relationship progresses to marriage (long down line) he will not marry you unless Muslim.That is one thing you must if it gets serious check.I would try it by making it quite clear that nothing of you will change not religion or your social life and friends.

Best of luck op.

At S23 while i agree with you about her relaxing and may be just a relationship she will move on from and not go any further as early stages.
What you said about finding out who he is in due course and his character.You are mistaken.As a woman who has dated and had many friends who have dated also married Muslim men.That is not the case at all.They pretend until married then the rules change.(NOT ALL) But especially countries such as Egypt etc... it is the truth.
Unless they have no intention of ever going back there or have no family left.

marinchik

No, I was just thinking about what it could be like in far future, but I’m definitely not rushing into anything. The thing is that he is actually very serious about us, and said that if I feel that the fact he is Muslim is not ok with me, that I should tell him now and break things off before he falls for me too deep and be left heartbroken.
I think maybe I became too obsessed with idea to prove to the whole world that Muslim are not all the same and my man is good, that I started talking about marriage, babies and moving to Egypt and that if this ever to happen I’ll be ok with it, not meaning that I will merry him asap.

S23

marinchik wrote: »

No, I was just thinking about what it could be like in far future, but I’m definitely not rushing into anything. The thing is that he is actually very serious about us, and said that if I feel that the fact he is Muslim is not ok with me, that I should tell him now and break things off before he falls for me too deep and be left heartbroken.
I think maybe I became too obsessed with idea to prove to the whole world that Muslim are not all the same and my man is good, that I started talking about marriage, babies and moving to Egypt and that if this ever to happen I’ll be ok with it, not meaning that I will merry him asap.

Sounds like he is sticking a flag up and stating that he takes his religion very seriously to me. If this is the case then (and I'm not saying it definitvely is) then theres a 99.9% chance if things did progress to marriage you would be expected to conform and adhere to the standard behaviour of a Muslim wife.

Devout Muslims don't fcuk about when it comes to these things. There is a strict adherence to the way things are done.

Maybe you just need to talk to him about it. It might seem pushy or whatever but it sounds like hes coming on pretty strong too so it may be the best course of action. You could just ask him flat out if things got to the stage where you were married would he expect you to become a 'standard' Muslim wife.

If he says yes then you have you answer. If he says no, you'd be able to do as you are, then its up to you to work out if hes bull****ting you

seenitall

Agree 100% with S23. Have the talk with him now. Hopefully he will be honest enough with you to not try and bull---t you about his expectations of you down the line, just so that he could hang on to you now.

In essence, I do hope you have found a nice guy for yourself who will not try and change 90% of your personality in the future. Unfortunately, the religion itself (or the way it is interpreted culturally) seems to be geared to this kind of manipulation of women. So, be very careful, won't you?

The best of luck to both of you.

Shayman

Hi OP.

I spent some time in the Middle East a few years back and made a lot of friends both Muslim and non. In fact I was very friendly with a Saudi guy who was married (very happily) to an Irish girl and they had a couple of kids. To the best of my knowledge they are very happy. He practices his faith fairly devoutley, she chose not to become Muslim but respects his and his family's beliefs. The kids are being brought up as Muslims but they have said they will let the kids decide for themselves what to do when they get old enough. She wears all the Islamic female gear when she goes out in Saudi as she doesn't want to stick out from the crowd but she doesn't have to. As was stated above you get various types - good and bad - in Islam as you do with Christianity. Egyptians and Saudis tend to be more passive/less fundamental than, say, Pakistanis or Yemenis. In general Islam is a very respectful and peaceful religion. In the end it's your decision. You should also consider, however, that his family will probably have issues with him having a relationship with a non Muslim so best thing is for you both to sit down and lay your cards on the table. I wouldn't write him off just because of heresay and bad press that Islam gets though. Good luck!!

Shayman

[quote=[Deleted User];65366129]Honestly, I don't think you're friends are entirely wrong. I grew up in an area of England with lots of Muslims, and I think every single one of the English women I knew who married Muslim men ended up divorcing them and having a lengthy fight for the kids. They all did change after the wedding, becoming stricter, expecting the wives to convert or conform, many of them wanted to take on a second wife etc. [/QUOTE]

I think you'll find they were of Pakistani descent? A lot of the way they (Pakistanis) treat women is a cultural rather than religous thing. Sure, women are treated differently in Islamic culture, not necessarily badly but different none the less. A Muslim will not necessarily insist on his fiance converting to Islam but it would certainly be favourable to most.

LegacyUser

marinchik wrote: »

No, I was just thinking about what it could be like in far future, but I’m definitely not rushing into anything. The thing is that he is actually very serious about us, and said that if I feel that the fact he is Muslim is not ok with me, that I should tell him now and break things off before he falls for me too deep and be left heartbroken.
I think maybe I became too obsessed with idea to prove to the whole world that Muslim are not all the same and my man is good, that I started talking about marriage, babies and moving to Egypt and that if this ever to happen I’ll be ok with it, not meaning that I will merry him asap.

Can i ask how long you two are together and what ages you are?




Well wouldn't say he wasn't good.Just he may change and become a control dominated Muslim which majority do especially from mainly Muslim run countries.That is the problem with a relationship with cultures,laws,religion and ways towards women,which would be totally alien to you.Which all boil back down to religion been the dominating factor.
You would do well if you have no intention of changing religion for this man and practically who you are if you did go over there not to continue any further unless he assures you will not be problem with family or with him that you want to remain a catholic.


And at whoever used Christianity could be same that is rubbish,You get a few men in Christianity who carry on like control freaks towards women.But that's their personality.In countries like that majority are like that and religion and culture control them and their families also.

LegacyUser

Shayman wrote: »

Hi OP.

I spent some time in the Middle East a few years back and made a lot of friends both Muslim and non. In fact I was very friendly with a Saudi guy who was married (very happily) to an Irish girl and they had a couple of kids. To the best of my knowledge they are very happy. He practices his faith fairly devoutley, she chose not to become Muslim but respects his and his family's beliefs. The kids are being brought up as Muslims but they have said they will let the kids decide for themselves what to do when they get old enough. She wears all the Islamic female gear when she goes out in Saudi as she doesn't want to stick out from the crowd but she doesn't have to. As was stated above you get various types - good and bad - in Islam as you do with Christianity. Egyptians and Saudis tend to be more passive/less fundamental than, say, Pakistanis or Yemenis. In general Islam is a very respectful and peaceful religion. In the end it's your decision. You should also consider, however, that his family will probably have issues with him having a relationship with a non Muslim so best thing is for you both to sit down and lay your cards on the table. I wouldn't write him off just because of heresay and bad press that Islam gets though. Good luck!!

More passive are you serious lol i will not even try to argue that.
Shayman truth of matter is you do not know what goes on behind closed doors.
They are bringing them up Muslim but decided to let them decide when they get older? After been Muslims for the majority of their lives?
Remember this you think you mates gf is very happy but he is beating her to a pulp behind closed doors.
I walk out and smile at everyone and inside i am miserable.
Its more than hearsay its fact and witnessed,majority are like that control dominating and do not see women as equal.Prince charming until ring on finger or has the woman so manipulated she doesn't know whats normal anymore.

Again i am not saying all but majority.

Shayman

lilies wrote: »

More passive are you serious lol i will not even try to argue that.

You Don't agree? How many countries have Muslim Governments invaded in the last 20 years? Remember Iraq had a secular Govt when it invaded Kuwait!

Shayman truth of matter is you do not know what goes on behind closed doors.

And you do?

They are bringing them up Muslim but decided to let them decide when they get older? After been Muslims for the majority of their lives?

Exactly as most Irish people were brought up as Catholics and made their own decisions when they were old enough...

Remember this you think you mates gf is very happy but he is beating her to a pulp behind closed doors.

You say he is beating her to a pulp behind closed doors - and you don't even know them. He has never laid a finger on her!

I walk out and smile at everyone and inside i am miserable.
Its more than hearsay its fact and witnessed,majority are like that control dominating and do not see women as equal.Prince charming until ring on finger or has the woman so manipulated she doesn't know whats normal anymore.

Again i am not saying all but majority.

I think you're full of crap! You hadn't even the balls to log in under your own username and a mod allowed you to make a blatant untrue statement (mod: see fourth point above!) Have you ever been to an Islamic country? Yeah? Where? Or are you ranting from your little introverted cocoon in the middle of some bog!

LegacyUser

Shayman wrote: »

I think you're full of crap! You hadn't even the balls to log in under your own username and a mod allowed you to make a blatant untrue statement (mod: see fourth point above!) Have you ever been to an Islamic country? Yeah? Where? Or are you ranting from your little introverted cocoon in the middle of some bog!

For everything else doesnt make sense.


For this comment (Remember this you think your mates gf is very happy but he is beating her to a pulp behind closed doors.)
You replied with this to me.
(You say he is beating her to a pulp behind closed doors - and you don't even know them. He has never laid a finger on her!)
And mods i am sure saw that i was making a hypothetical comment!

A hypothetical comment meaning you have no idea what goes on behind anyone's closed doors.And wasn't referring to your Saudi mate i was referring to anyone's mate!!
Meaning everything can look like roses to the outsiders eyes but not all true!
And to the rest yes i do know,You been a man will never know

LegacyUser

I haven't read all the posts as it's late and just thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth.

I have recently been to a wedding - catholic girl/muslim guy and both are amazing people. He is Egyptian and lovely. Not sure how things are since the wedding as they live in Egypt but will be due an update. To me he doesn't seem very strict in his religion.

I dated a turkish muslim at one stage who was more like a catholic. Hated the muslim faith, ran from turkey and wouldn't mix with them - he was lovely but it didn't last - number of reasons all not religious.

I have a male cousin who married a female Indonesian muslim. He had to convert and when he treated her as an equal was pulled aside and told how to treat her as a second class citizen to be honest. He was horrified and did not like this but she confirmed it was ok as she knew it was her religion. They have since divorced and he is the one with custody. She doesn't want it as she knows it his entitlement - that is the religion. He lives over there but it has been made clear that he would be ok to return to Ire with them for her not to see them again. I myself think this is appalling and unnatural as its the most natural thing to be a parent in particular a mother. He thinks the same and that's why he stays there so they can see her.

I have a female friend (catholic) who has a muslim boyfriend. She is pregnant. She split up with him before she became pregnant for him to beg her to come back and marry her it was shortly after this she fell pregnant. She agreed and then it couldn't go ahead as his parents said it was her or them his inheritance. Needless to say she is left high and dry and worried to hell about what he'll do re baby once it arrives - as in come looking to take it.

Another female catholic friend who is now married to muslim man - she was treated like crap and her whole personality changed, she didn't drink, go out late, had to cover herself up etc. (Oh last friend above used to wear low cut tops and minis and that had to stop.Also her BF's friends would not acknowledge her at all in there home.) I have lost contact with her as I am a strong person so she wasn't allowed spend time with me.

Anyway I also work in an area which deals with Muslims from time to time and they do differ. I think it is down to the country they are from to how strong their faith is. You have to judge for yourself but I would say be a little cautious and don't think to yourself I'm going to make this work because everyone close to me things it shouldn't - I kinda did this with a different sort of relationship before and you only end up fooling yourself and getting hurt.

Also note that they can be very charming so look through that as you would with any other culture man.

Don't be afraid to tell your parents but do be prepared to answer any questions they have. I would not ask him too many questions about his religion and just observe him and you will get to learn how strong his faith is and maybe be able to make a firmer decision based on that.

Good luck and I hope it works out whatever you choose.

Memnoch

I'm married to a Muslim, but my OH has never said a prayer in her life, and neither of us is religious, so it's not a problem.

Here's my advice...

Do not emigrate, ever. It MIGHT work out okay, but it's a big risk. Once you are in another country, you have no rights. You could easily be intimidated, bullied, made to conform. You need to stay where you have support. Maybe after you've been married for a few years and you are really sure he's not going to change his colours you should consider it, not before.

A lot of Muslim men have very traditional upbringings. I can't tell you how many Muslims I know who thought it was okay to sleep with white girls because they are tramps but they would only marry a good muslim girl who was pure and chaste.

It isn't strictly Muslims either. Many Indian men can be like this. Though that is changing as the country gets more modern and westernised. It's more a cultural thing about strong traditional values.

In the end you have to make a judgement, but there has been some very good advice already in this thread. If he seems at all religious, i.e. he prays, goes to mosque regularly. This is a big red flag.

It is absolutely a generalisation, but sadly, one that that is based on many negative experiences. The practise of Islam in many parts of the world today is just as backward as the practise of Christianity was a hundred or more years ago.

marinchik

Hi All,

Thanks a mill for all your replies.

I met him last night and tried to have a conversation regarding what it could be like if we to get married and have kids and all. He told me that there is no way he would ever try to change me or make me do anything against my will. But did mention that I would have to stop smoking and drinking, yeah I didn’t like this part, but I’ve no problem to giving it up since my health will only benefit;-)) If we to have children they would definitely have to be Muslim.

We have been dating for the last 3 months and he is already talking of moving in together, when I say its too soon to be even talking about it, he gets very upset, he says that if you feel you like someone and want to be with him, why joke around and drag time you just have to go for it, no matter how long you know each other, I fell if I to say ok lets do this we would wed in no time and have kids, which freaks me out a bit, as things are moving away too fast for me…

I think I will wait and see how things will develop, as I do like him a lot….

S23

Well you've gotten plenty of advice and I think I can see where this one is headed but the very best of luck to you

Barracudaincork

marinchik wrote: »

He told me that there is no way he would ever try to change me or make me do anything against my will. But did mention that I would have to stop smoking and drinking, yeah I didn’t like this part

So what did he mean when he said he wasnt going to change you then and how is telling you that you would "have" to stop smoking and drinking not trying to change you?

You can label it as better for your health etc etc but you are just making excuses for him. As S23 said, i think we all know how this will pan out..........

marinchik

We’ll to be completely honest the more I think about it and read your comments, the more I am convinced that this relationship has no future. He does have some qualities that don’t sit well with me but I think, as you mentioned before, I was just making up an excuses for him. He does pray and goes to mosque when he gets a chance, so I think we are too different. I like my freedom and do things the way I’m used to, I don’t think I’ll be ok with someone even slightly trying to change my ways of living, I might give in a beginning, but will not tolerate forever though…. I guess, its not a great relationship when you do things you don’t enjoy just to make your other half happy….

Shayman

Shayman wrote: »

I think you'll find they were of Pakistani descent? A lot of the way they (Pakistanis) treat women is a cultural rather than religous thing. Sure, women are treated differently in Islamic culture, not necessarily badly but different none the less. A Muslim will not necessarily insist on his fiance converting to Islam but it would certainly be favourable to most.

You think I'll find they were of Pakistani descent, do you? I think I know better than you where my friends and acquaintances are from. Some are Pakistani and yes they are strict, but others are from Saudi, the UAE, Egypt, Oman, all kinds of countries which have only Islam in common. I have female friends from Malaysia whose husbands expect them to wear a headscarf when they step outside the door. Even in the more relaxed countries like Bahrain where alcohol is allowed, women are often expected not to work, and in Saudi Arabia they're not even allowed to drive! And I'm not even going to get into Afghanistan. I'd be hard pressed to think of a single Muslim country where women have anywhere near the amount of rights and freedoms they have in Europe. I'm not only talking about laws but also cultural expectations.

Memnoch

marinchik wrote: »

We’ll to be completely honest the more I think about it and read your comments, the more I am convinced that this relationship has no future. He does have some qualities that don’t sit well with me but I think, as you mentioned before, I was just making up an excuses for him. He does pray and goes to mosque when he gets a chance, so I think we are too different. I like my freedom and do things the way I’m used to, I don’t think I’ll be ok with someone even slightly trying to change my ways of living, I might give in a beginning, but will not tolerate forever though…. I guess, its not a great relationship when you do things you don’t enjoy just to make your other half happy….

I don't think there needs to be a knee jerk reaction, though there might be some posts urging you to dump... dump... dump.

But you are right to be clear in what you want.

He is asking you to give up smoking and drinking. Is it for your health or for religious reasons?

I'm not religious, but personally I would not be able to live with a smoker. That's my choice and luckily for me the person I fell in love with was not a smoker.

Wanting your children to be muslim? Pressurising you to get married so soon? "If you love me then what's the problem?"

This is not to say that he is a bad person OR that he doesn't loves you, OR that your relationship is definitely doomed. But there are definite red flags here.

There is nothing wrong with compromise in a relationship, but if he is asking you to sacrifice what you believe, is he willing to do the same in return? Compromise should be from both sides and it should bring balance and happiness to both, not just for one at the expense of the other.

It's good that you have your boundaries. You need to define them and stick to them. Decide what you feel is unreasonable and what isn't. Then let him know. If he really loves you he will accept you and try to adapt his thinking accordingly.

LegacyUser

I agree with the above statement you could be as religious as the pope but may not want to live with a smoker for reasons entirely unrelated to their religion.

Just to throw my hat in the ring. A family friend of now approximately 60 married a Muslim Egyptian man nearly 40 years ago. Came from Catholic family and obviously Ireland was ALOT more Catholic at the time of their marraige. People worried but he seemed very liberal etc and they went ahead and got married. She refused to move to Eygpt which didnt seem to bother her OH, in the end due to him finding work they moved to Amsterdam.

It's now 33 years on, they have been separted for about 6 years, due to him treating her as a slave. they have two sons both brought up in quite a non-religious way but where taught about both religions.. One is gay and is father due to entirely his faith (even though he could still not be viewed as practicing) has disowned him, beat him when he found out and has not talked to him in 3 years. Another has followed his father, he does not speak to his brother, he won't tell anyone who his brother is, if the gay brother is in the mothers he will refuse to come &/or will walk out if the gay brother turns up. His relationship with his mother is disintegrating as he treats her like a second class citizen. He now wants to move to Eygpt. The mother is left in Amsterdam with nothing as her husband has taken everything but still won't grant her a divorce. She has very little and wants to stay in Amsterdam for her sun. Its a horrible situation.

I know everyone is different and we can not tar people with the same brush, I know a Catholic man could also easily turn against his gay son. But my point is this, this man was not a practicing Muslim, he did not force in the early part of her marraige to do or act in a way associated with his religion but now it is his religion which has torn her family apart.

Times are different but people need to cautious

marinchik

I, by no means, say that he is bad or anything, I just think that few of his qualities would not be ok with me in a long run. For someone else it could be nothing, but for me, a person who likes my independence and be able to do things, as I’m used to, not really. Like he says I shouldn’t wear makeup, when I already wear next to nothing of it, because I’ll attract more male attention. When I have to study in the evenings, and he is around he gets upset that I’d rather spend time studying that with him, that I’m selfish, but I’m on a deadline and do spend as much time with him as I can. I mean I like the thing the way they are now, but I’m afraid on going forward he might get more strict and demanding and I know I will not cave in and this will most definitely cause some stir, so basically what I’m trying to say that I believe that in a long term this might not work and I do not want to sort of make him stick around for nothing as he does have some serious plans for us in future…….

Memnoch

marinchik wrote: »

I, by no means, say that he is bad or anything, I just think that few of his qualities would not be ok with me in a long run. For someone else it could be nothing, but for me, a person who likes my independence and be able to do things, as I’m used to, not really. Like he says I shouldn’t wear makeup, when I already wear next to nothing of it, because I’ll attract more male attention. When I have to study in the evenings, and he is around he gets upset that I’d rather spend time studying that with him, that I’m selfish, but I’m on a deadline and do spend as much time with him as I can. I mean I like the thing the way they are now, but I’m afraid on going forward he might get more strict and demanding and I know I will not cave in and this will most definitely cause some stir, so basically what I’m trying to say that I believe that in a long term this might not work and I do not want to sort of make him stick around for nothing as he does have some serious plans for us in future…….

You know your situation best and what is best for you. While I don't like the idea of breaking up someone's relationship over the internet, based on everything you've told us, I feel you are making the right decision.

He's controlling and shows strong deference to his religious beliefs, both of which are worrying signs for the future as you've pointed out.

Best of luck in the future.

LegacyUser

marinchik wrote: »

I, by no means, say that he is bad or anything, I just think that few of his qualities would not be ok with me in a long run. For someone else it could be nothing, but for me, a person who likes my independence and be able to do things, as I’m used to, not really. Like he says I shouldn’t wear makeup, when I already wear next to nothing of it, because I’ll attract more male attention. When I have to study in the evenings, and he is around he gets upset that I’d rather spend time studying that with him, that I’m selfish, but I’m on a deadline and do spend as much time with him as I can. I mean I like the thing the way they are now, but I’m afraid on going forward he might get more strict and demanding and I know I will not cave in and this will most definitely cause some stir, so basically what I’m trying to say that I believe that in a long term this might not work and I do not want to sort of make him stick around for nothing as he does have some serious plans for us in future…….

All of what you said if your friend was writing that what would you say to them?
Personally straight away i see the issues of him controlling you.Don't wear make up and pouting because you are studying for your future and calling you selfish?
This is already the signs of a man who is trying to manipulate you and change you to how he wants.And trying to make you guilty.
Is there other things you aren't saying?
Sweetheart i am not been bad but i see every alarm bell going here.
And he already has serious plans for your future and trying to get you to move in with him.
In my experience that is so he can get you away,and have more control over you out of view of family and friends.Soon enough it will be more than likely he doesn't like your friends.

peggy1

Hi everyone,

don't want to take over this thread or anything but have just being reading the above responses and my question is very related..

I dated a muslim from the lebanon whilst working in the uk 3 years ago. He had to return to the middle east as his work visa had ran out. I was a student and there was no talk of the future. Just wondering at the same time if you think the characteristics below suggest had it ever got serious etc that he might have got controlling eventually.

1. I was out shopping one evening. Had arranged to meet him that evening around 8 or 9. Got numerous missed calls from him between 5 and 6 pm. When I finally answered - (hadnt heard the phone initially his first question was "where are you" "where are you" " why didnt you answer my calls". Then he said he was ready to meet me where would he collect me. Next thing he had arrived and was ringing me like mad and texted that he had arrived at the shopping centre where was I? I was trying on clothes so didnt answer for a while. Then i rang him and he said i will meet you where are you, despite my saying id ring him in a few minutes when i was ready and meet him in the carpark outside. He came into the shopping centre looking for me.

2. When he texted me, if I didnt get to answer he would sent a text saying "you hate me, right?" i think this was to get my attention... ??do you think that was a bit attention seeking? he was 35

3. He believed in a relationship the man should show leadership when in a relationship and be a few years older than the woman

4. He always insisted on paying for meals out etc.

in your opinions do you think any of the above were red flags?

He was well educated and mixed with christians regularly.

S23

Do we think any of them were red flags? #1 is the biggest and reddest flag I've ever seen.

peggy1

Thanks S21, do you think it was a red flag that he would be posessive?

as I'm not fully sure.. it was ramadam time and he wanted to go for food as he had been fasting all day.. so maybe that was it?

also he wore normal clothes as did women in the lebanon where he was from

peggy1

that said another time i had to delay meeting him as i was in town with a friend, he wasnt very impressed as he said he didnt like to be "hanging around" waiting for me as he had planned to meet me.. That said couldnt that apply to any guy?

I really liked him and felt very cared for when with him. He always gave me his full attention which i liked.

S23

If he was hungry it still doesn't excuse behaving like an over possesive psycho.

Put it this way, if it was me and I'd been fasting I'd simply have said, look can you meet met at 9 (or whatever time) on the dot I'm going to be desperate for something to eat.

I wouldn't be ringing you up a billion times and acting like an idiot. You said you'd arranged to meet at 9 but you got multiple phone calls between 5-6 and his first question was to demand to know where you were? Its all a bit psycho possesive if you ask me. Reminds me of that creepy fella in Sleeping with the Enemy

As for your other points

#2 No adult should behave like that. It shows a lack of capability to have a normal realtionship and function as a part of one withour resorting to childish sh*t like that

#3 What exactly does show leadership mean? I'd guess he meant call the shots and dictate terms. Thats nonsense. A partner should be just that, a partner. An equal, someone who you respect and who respects you. Not someone you tell what to do all the time.
Sure sometimes I say to the missus 'right we're doing XYZ tomorrow night/this weekend' and make a decision but just as often she'll do the same.
As for the age thing, its hardly imperative that one partner be X years older than the other. Everyone has types so their might be a greater attraction for some people to certain groups but you can't plan who you fall in love with. Like would you really knock back someone who was perfect for you in every other way just because they didn't tick a certain box like age or height?
I think it shows that he had set parameters for what he was looking for that had to be adhered to.

#4 In itself is a tricky enough question. Chivalry isn't dead and all that. Its a nice gesture and all that. However, many women like to get their share and might not want their man paying for everything all the time.

However, thrown in with the other stuff you have said it looks like another 'rule' of the relationship.

seenitall

Look, peggy1, generally speaking, these guys grow up in the culture where the woman is a subservient creature, and meant only to serve the man. A wife is to be controlled, her behaviour and sometimes clothes strictly proscribed, as well as who she is allowed to associate with etc. Girls are reared to have no wishes for their own advancement in the world and no independent thoughts. Man earns the money, man pays bills, and as man holds the money and the power, the woman is little more than chattel really. Man is boss, end of story.

It will be very difficult for most guys who come from such cultural background, to get their heads around having to be patient, waiting around on a mere woman while she is clothes shopping or whatever. It is supposed to be the other way around!

The same thing with his texts. Your paramour simply did not have the cultural background to unable him to understand why, as a mere woman, you don't have the decency to be at his beck and call, and drop everything the moment he texts.

Unfortunately, I have experience with this sort of relationship, so I am not talking through my hat here.

All this doesn't mean that these people are necessarily bad human beings. But what it means is, that if you value the way YOU have been brought up, i.e. as a woman who is more or less equal in everything to your male counterparts, you cannot have a succesful intimate relationship with a guy from this kind of culture. Something has to give.

On the other hand, if you don't mind being treated as described in the first paragraph of my post (or in your own post, actually), then yes, this may have been the great love of your life... but have no fear, Ireland is itself becoming a multi-cultural society nowadays, I am sure you can find yourself a nice Muslim man on these shores again.

peggy1

Hi S23,

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Yes, maybe you're right. My friends had told me be careful when i told them i was dating a muslim!

#1. Yes, it was probably a bit posessive even though he didnt say anything when I met him, just took my hand kissed me and said i was looking for you! Then we went for a meal. Maybe it was that he wanted to have the meal with me? but yes you are probably right, it was a bit posessive or strange behaviour. I just really liked him - he made me feel so special and wanted, cared for..that's what attracted him to me more was that feeling but maybe it might have got dangerous too or controlling..

#2. Yes you are right it was childish sh.t!!

#3. yes, possibly the man to show leadership by being the one to be in charge and make the decisions - there is probably something in their culture alright where the man likes to be the decider of things etc.. and there is something attractive about having a decisive man!! compared to a dithering one at the other extreme..but that doesnt mean he would become a wife beater like other posts have suggested some men do behind closed doors or that he would restrict his wife from having friends etc


#4. Oh yes, I'm all for paying my share - thats what i found strange. despite numerous attempts to pay - one time i even paid when he was in the bathroom but he insisted on reimbursing me.. some people might think great to that but i would have preferred to have paid my share or every second turn genuinely, even though i was a student i had ample means.

He didnt drink or eat pork either

peggy1

Hi Seenitall,

Thanks for your reply, yes you are probably right, it is probably culturally engrained in them that that is how it is, not sure would i go as far as to he would have expected me to have served him but yes perhaps that he wasnt to be kept waiting, that he was too important for that etc!

whilst i did feel cared for by him and wanted and i liked all the attention he gave me,i liked his decisiveness in a way too and there is something attractive about a man who is decisive and takes charge.. in a way.. but at the same time it might have been a novelty for me. as perhaps if i had ended up with him long term I might have got sick of it etc, i was still in the honey moon stage of the relationship..

he had no issues with what i wore.

Memnoch

peggy1 wrote: »

Hi Seenitall,

Thanks for your reply, yes you are probably right, it is probably culturally engrained in them that that is how it is, not sure would i go as far as to he would have expected me to have served him but yes perhaps that he wasnt to be kept waiting, that he was too important for that etc!

whilst i did feel cared for by him and wanted and i liked all the attention he gave me,i liked his decisiveness in a way too and there is something attractive about a man who is decisive and takes charge.. in a way.. but at the same time it might have been a novelty for me. as perhaps if i had ended up with him long term I might have got sick of it etc, i was still in the honey moon stage of the relationship..

he had no issues with what i wore.

I don't like to be kept waiting either. I make an effort to be punctual and on time and respect the time of others because I value my own time. Not to say that this applies to your situation as you hadn't agreed to see him till 9 and he DID turn up early.

I don't think many people here have had a "muslim" fast where you can't touch anything till sun down. He was probably desperate to get a bite but at the same time didn't want to eat without you, hence he was anxious to find you and meet up.

Personally, I don't feel that shopping is more important than eating with someone who hasn't had a bite or drop all day, and that in that particular situation you wouldn't have lost anything by compromising. I'm not saying you shouldn't have your personal space and that that space shouldn't be respected, but the claims from some posters about how this incident shows him as some kind of psycho control freak are OTT.

Relationships are about compromise, sometimes you gotta make a little extra effort and the attitude on here seems to be that the moment anyone expects even that little bit extra from you it's not worth it.

Because when you boil it down, what REALLY did he ask for?

The pay thing is probably more about his pride as a man as that is something that is beaten into East Asian men quite strongly. It's their DUTY to provide and if they don't it's considered severely humiliating. Maybe if he was over here and saw how it was no big deal, he would relax about it too.

projectvv

hi, i know lots of women in this situation and would like to give my tuppence worth. First of all, the muslim mens' behaviour is typical of the culture they are from, it has nothing to do with islam, for example, i see that he is critical when you are in college and yet islam encourages all, both men and women to be educated. anyway islam is for all nations and it is only when these men try to impose their own particular culture, in this case, egyptian, that there is conflict of the type mentioned. i think the other BIG issue being overlooked is the intention of the man. Most all egyptians fall into the category of economic migrants and they only way they can ensure residency here is to marry an irish woman. Now, having said that i know lots of irish married to egyptian years and they live here have kids etc and are happy. but i think ya just have to be aware of this issue, by him marrying you he will get a resident visa and be allowed work here and ultimately take irish nationality - a huge plus for him. this may not be his intention but it is common, especially when they marry older women who cannot even give them kids. Obviously this is not the case with you and if ya marry and have kids ya may end up in the statistics of those that actually do work and like i said there are many. if ya decide to go ahead, my advice is keep on to your irish culture, even if ya change to islam as islam is not just for the arabs. The sterotyping sadly has some truth, this is becuase this is arab culture, i lived in egypt before and the christian egy men treat their women similarly. Sadly the 2 concepts of islam and arab culture are always interchanged.