Tabata Training Help

funkey_monkey

Hi,

I'm going to start some tabata training and am looking some help to get a correct balance for the exercises to do and how many to do.

I understand that 1 Tabata is 20s exercise + 10s rest for eight repetitions. How many tabatas should be don in total in one session?

What way are they done - is each exercise done to completion for 1 Tabata or are they alternated throughout the Tabata?


Many thanks and looking forward to the answers!

jeff lebowski

It's pretty much any comination of exercises using the 8 set protocol of 20s work, 10s rest. If you have plenty left in the tank you can do other tabata based sessions such as 2 crossfit ones called "Tabata This" and "Tabata someting else". Lately I have been doing a workout with 4 tabata's (so 32 in all) working at 8 sets of press ups, 8 body weight swuats, 8 pull-ups, 8 sit-ups. That ones pretty difficult.

If you are working out at home and have your laptop/pc nearby this is a handy timer that I use: http://www.beach-fitness.com/tabata/

Scuba Ste

As far as i understood you just do 1 exercise, its a conditioning exercise as opposed to a strength training one. i wouldnt fancy doing tabata front squats and then tabata bench, you'll probably kill yourself.

AFAIK front squats are common enough to do because its easier to rack the bar and if you fail its easier to dump.

Edit: I presumed you were thinking of it for strength training, if not disregard the above. I'd still go for a single 4 minute "set" as opposed to something crossfit style, Id call that crossfit not tabata.

Hanley

If you're able to do multiple tabatas, you're probably not pushing hard enough!!

kevpants

I find tabata's a bit of a piece of piss as far as the world of interval training goes.

I personally haven't been able to replicate the sheer brutality of 2 exercises in the 21-15-9 split.

I've been doing:
40kg squat thrusters and pushups
burpees and bodyweight squats
box jumps and 40kg bb rows
40kg push press and 40kg bb row

I usually do two in a session most days during my fat loss excursion. My times for them have absolutely tumbled.

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

I find tabata's a bit of a piece of piss as far as the world of interval training goes.

I personally haven't been able to replicate the sheer brutality of 2 exercises in the 21-15-9 split.

I've been doing:
40kg squat thrusters and pushups
burpees and bodyweight squats - AHEM!!!! What do we call this??
box jumps and 40kg bb rows
40kg push press and 40kg bb row

I usually do two in a session most days during my fat loss excursion. My times for them have absolutely tumbled.

Fair play to ya tho... you're such a pig headed bast@rd that I'm sure you're making great progress. My trek to 94kg starts tomorrow. Got some cake to finish off tonight!!

jeff lebowski

If you're able to do multiple tabatas, you're probably not pushing hard enough!!

You're probably right and I find myself thinking that too but I be in ribbons by the end of it.

Khannie

kevpants wrote: »

I find tabata's a bit of a piece of piss as far as the world of interval training goes.

Then you're not doing it right.

Hanley

Khannie wrote: »

Then you're not doing it right.

HAhahahaha brutal.

I think you have a point tho. Kev, tried Tabata thrusters with 45kg next week with me, we'll go balls out and you can tell me it doesn't hurt!!

brianthebard

kevpants wrote: »

I find tabata's a bit of a piece of piss as far as the world of interval training goes.

I personally haven't been able to replicate the sheer brutality of 2 exercises in the 21-15-9 split.

I've been doing:
40kg squat thrusters and pushups
burpees and bodyweight squats
box jumps and 40kg bb rows
40kg push press and 40kg bb row

I usually do two in a session most days during my fat loss excursion. My times for them have absolutely tumbled.

Did you scale these at the beginning or do 21-15-9 from the start and just take as long as it takes?

edges

The good Doctor tabata had to practicaly bribe his test subjects to continue when he formulated the tabata protocol.
If ou follow the protocol correctly you will want to quit well before the end of the 4 minutes, multiple Tabata's are not tabata training.

Exercises that work well:
Front Squats
Sprints
Jerks
stationary bike sprints (as Dr Tabata used)
Thrusters

And thats about it.
they are severe
if they're not, your aint doing it right.

However they do also form a nice interval pattern for more general conditioning, it's not strictly as Dr tabata intended but it works well for building endurance or burning fat.
For this choose 2-4 full body drills and go nuts.
Nice combo's are:
Burpees + Pushups
Squats + Pull ups
Sprints + Burpees

You get the idea.

Best of luck with your training.

Dave
www.wg-fit.com

Transform

no need to pick brutal exercises - i do this now and again with regular clients using

tabata -
inverted rows/pull ups x 8rounds

break 2-3mins

squats
break 2-3mins
press ups
break 2-3mins
sit ups

of course burpees and thrusters are going to be really tough but for the beginner the above will work wonders. oh and please count total reps for each exercise so you can aim to beat it

Khannie

Hanley wrote: »

HAhahahaha brutal.

Probably came across a bit harsh alright. I use them sometimes. I'll do 20 seconds all out fast punching on the bag, 10 seconds break, etc. I'll typically get in around 100 punches during that 20 seconds on. Even when I'm really fit I'm always *messed up* at the end of a tabata session. I'm not sure you can replicate that kind of lung buster with some other exercises (e.g. squats). If you don't have a bag / don't fancy punching I'd say sprints are a good alternative.

discus

There's always

Transform

discus wrote: »

There's always

mother of god nooooo!

d'Oracle

Khannie wrote: »

I'm not sure you can replicate that kind of lung buster with some other exercises (e.g. squats). If you don't have a bag / don't fancy punching I'd say sprints are a good alternative.

I have never done this punching tabata thing-thang but I have used air squats. If you go balls out, you will still hammer yourself with them.

Khannie

d'Oracle wrote: »

I have never done this punching tabata thing-thang but I have used air squats. If you go balls out, you will still hammer yourself with them.

Agreed, just probably not as badly. The thing about 20 seconds of squats is that for at least a few seconds of them you're just dropping down (i.e. exerting no effort). With the punching or sprinting there is always one limb exerting effort.

Let me put it to you this way...I wouldn't fear a tabata squatting session, but I would fear a tabata hill sprinting session. As was said though....you need to be balls to the wall 100% all out or you're fooling yourself.

Carl Sagan

Just tried tabata squats for the first time after reading this. Was doing my normal training (squats today) and then did some light weight tabata squats. I'm in bits now.. Have a slight ringing in my ears and I've been out of breath for the last few minutes.

Transform

Carl Sagan wrote: »

Just tried tabata squats for the first time after reading this. Was doing my normal training (squats today) and then did some light weight tabata squats. I'm in bits now.. Have a slight ringing in my ears and I've been out of breath for the last few minutes.

now THATS the way to do it - go do it with press ups and pull ups now!!

Inspector Coptoor

a balls out tabata workout with front squats with 25kg made me heave a few weeks ago.

Barry.Oglesby

The tabata protocol is really misunderstood. Essentially what Tabata et al did was increase anaerobic capacity through high intensity interval training. The reason a stationary bike was used was because the stimulus needed to be moderately resistant but constant and operating at a level of intensity above the individals VO2 Max. I can't remember how high but well above, something like 150%. The reason the study got so much publicity was because he essentially used aerobics to increase anaerobics.

So to get any similar metabolic effect, you would have to use the protocol with some sort of lower body movement. The pretty famous t-nation one was Dan John's (he used front squats with a relatively low load, something like 40-50% of 1RM) but probably any reasonably loaded lower body compound movement done at sufficient intensity would work.

Upper body stuff just won't work. It might feel sore and hurt a bit, but it simply isn't having the effect you might think it is. I'm sure it won't kill you, but it doesn't do what tabata does. I was yapping to Will about this one day and I think he reckoned maybe a hand bike might be okay but I might be wrong there.

TommyKnocker

Just a question

Doing front squats "balls to the wall" for 20 seconds, there is no way you could be doing your squats with proper form as your focus is on number of reps per 20 second interval.

Even though you are using lighter weight then you would if you were front squatting, would this not be a recipie for injury?


M

Inspector Coptoor

B-Builder wrote: »

Just a question

Doing front squats "balls to the wall" for 20 seconds, there is no way you could be doing your squats with proper form as your focus is on number of reps per 20 second interval.

Even though you are using lighter weight then you would if you were front squatting, would this not be a recipie for injury?


M

Yes, your focus is on banging out the maximum number of reps per 20 sec interval but if you do it in a squat rack with the pins in there shouldnt be a problem.
If you need to, you can drop the bar, and as its a front squat, it lends itself very well to dumping the bar onto the pins if needed.
I have to say though that by the time you;re on interval 5 or 6, you wont be able to bang reps out very fast at all and there is minimal risk of injury in my own opinion anyway

d'Oracle

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

The tabata protocol is really misunderstood. Essentially what Tabata et al did was increase anaerobic capacity through high intensity interval training. The reason a stationary bike was used was because the stimulus needed to be moderately resistant but constant and operating at a level of intensity above the individals VO2 Max. I can't remember how high but well above, something like 150%. The reason the study got so much publicity was because he essentially used aerobics to increase anaerobics.

So to get any similar metabolic effect, you would have to use the protocol with some sort of lower body movement. The pretty famous t-nation one was Dan John's (he used front squats with a relatively low load, something like 40-50% of 1RM) but probably any reasonably loaded lower body compound movement done at sufficient intensity would work.

Upper body stuff just won't work. It might feel sore and hurt a bit, but it simply isn't having the effect you might think it is. I'm sure it won't kill you, but it doesn't do what tabata does. I was yapping to Will about this one day and I think he reckoned maybe a hand bike might be okay but I might be wrong there.

This is something that comes up a lot in discussion about Tabatas.
And while its correct, when people say tabata they are usually referring to the time interval. I'm not sure the actual basis of the study is relevant to how most people are gonna be using it.

Sure if guy starts mouthing off about how Tabata something or other is raising his VO2max or what have you, then sure. But it boils down to a short hard interval session which can be useful as part of ones workout. I would imagine the vast majority of people who use it will neither get nor be looking for a similar metabolic effect.

I read an article by Lyle McDonald ragging on everyone and everything to do with Tabata because they weren't doing exactly what was done in the study. Frankly it just made the author look like a grumpy git.

Barry.Oglesby

d'Oracle wrote: »

Sure if guy starts mouthing off about how Tabata something or other is raising his VO2max or what have you, then sure. But it boils down to a short hard interval session which can be useful as part of ones workout. I would imagine the vast majority of people who use it will neither get nor be looking for a similar metabolic effect.

Then what are they looking for? Because I would say that there are far better ways than tabata to raise your metabolic rate. If you're doing them with upper body work, then you're totally missing the point and probably not getting anywhere near what you think you're getting.

As for being a bit anal or grumpy, well, I'm not in Lyle McDonald's category but the OP asked for tabata advice, he got some good, some bad, and I gave my opinion on the tabata protocol which you can see above. If people understood the method behind this type of training slightly better they might be able to structure their training better, apply the bits of science they know properly and then give themselves a better chance of getting in better shape.

d'Oracle

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Then what are they looking for? Because I would say that there are far better ways than tabata to raise your metabolic rate. If you're doing them with upper body work, then you're totally missing the point and probably not getting anywhere near what you think you're getting.

As for being a bit anal or grumpy, well, I'm not in Lyle McDonald's category but the OP asked for tabata advice, he got some good, some bad, and I gave my opinion on the tabata protocol which you can see above. If people understood the method behind this type of training slightly better they might be able to structure their training better, apply the bits of science they know properly and then give themselves a better chance of getting in better shape.

I'm not sure if you are taking my response as a criticism or not.
If you are I'm not sure why, but it wasn't meant like that. I certainly didn't suggest that you were being anal or grumpy.

So I'm gonna go ahead and opt out here.

Magic Eight Ball

Tabata deadlifts for extreme torture FTW

Barry.Oglesby

d'Oracle wrote: »

I'm not sure if you are taking my response as a criticism or not.
If you are I'm not sure why, but it wasn't meant like that. I certainly didn't suggest that you were being anal or grumpy.

So I'm gonna go ahead and opt out here.

No I wasn't taking it as criticism, I knew you were talking about Lyle's article but I appreciate that sometimes when you post like I did that people think you're just being a jerk.

I'm not.

Well, not intentionally.

And I am anal and grumpy, sometimes, however I can see the merit of using different timing protocols to mix up training, make it more interesting and so on. So be that 30 on 30 off or tabata, it's all good. But really, the methods employed are nothing to do with the original study. And that's okay too, don't get me wrong. Personally though, and I'm not alone in this, I like one of two things:
1) That I know and fully understand what I'm doing to myself
2) that whoever is coaching me knows and fully understands what he/she is doing to me.

You just get better results that way.

d'Oracle

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

But really, the methods employed are nothing to do with the original study. And that's okay too, don't get me wrong. Personally though, and I'm not alone in this, I like one of two things:
1) That I know and fully understand what I'm doing to myself
2) that whoever is coaching me knows and fully understands what he/she is doing to me.

You just get better results that way.

I would imagine the great paradox is that the more you know about it, the more important it becomes to know about it. I.e. you are more aware of what can go wrong or what doesn't really work. If that makes any sense.

Barry.Oglesby

d'Oracle wrote: »

I would imagine the great paradox is that the more you know about it, the more important it becomes to know about it. I.e. you are more aware of what can go wrong or what doesn't really work. If that makes any sense.

Possibly. I'm of a certain type who just has to know, but other lads come into the gym and just don't care what they're doing and just do as they're told. Maybe there's fault in both methods but I think there's deinitely fault in knowing a little bit about something and applying it without fully understanding it.

jeff lebowski

My gymboss timer just arrived in the post. Seems ike a great little gadget for Tabata's.....no distractions of looking at a watch etc.

ragg

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

And I am anal and grumpy, sometimes,

You missed obnoxious, irritating etc....

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

however I can see the merit of using different timing protocols to mix up training, make it more interesting and so on. So be that 30 on 30 off or tabata, it's all good.

Probably for another thread, but lets try it here. I think 30 - 30 timings are absolutely brutal. i find it hard it harder then Tabata style. I think its because the expectation is that you "should" be able to keep going for at least 10 rounds. Also, on a certain types of equipment i.e. the rower and the bike you have a almost limitless capacity to make it ahrder for yourself. Would you agree with this or have i just done Tabata wrong??

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

But really, the methods employed are nothing to do with the original study.

I think tabata is now jsut a catch all term for short extremely intense metabolic training. I saw a book recently and every metabolic workout in it was called a "tabata" many of which hadn't even got the timings write. I'm not sure what point there is to me writing this, but its more ontopic then my actual question...

funkey_monkey

I've got myself a timer and am doing the boxing now. Never really boxed before so getting up to speed with that prior to going at the tabata's 100%. Upper arms/shoulders are really sore and fading really quickly into the routine.

What could I combine with this to give me a full workout. The weights studio is in a different room to the bags. Not sure if I'd be able for any other upper body work after this.

chadmustang

Man its a four minute workout.. Theres no advice needed. Get a light weight on a bar and front squat it! You'll want to die before the 4 minutes is up but its great!

Thats all there is to it friend

Poncherello

I dont think you need any weight when doing Tabata squats. Air Squats all the way.
Try and do as many reps as possible in your first 20s say 25( making sure to lock out your knees at the top of each rep) and then dont allow yourself to do any less than say 23 in the remaining sets.
I love the feeling you get when trying to put one foot in front of the other after a set like that !