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Ireland agrees to lend Greece €450m

  • 11-04-2010 08:14PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0411/greece.html

    good to see that after Anglo and Quinn we still have dosh left over for Greece. Crazy stuff!


«1

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,462 ✭✭✭blinding


    I am a bit short as well. Can I have 900 million Euro please ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    they've lost their marbles!

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭2qk4u


    Squize every last cent out of the Irish so we can sent it out of the country. Roll on the elections...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Piriz


    in fairness guys:
    • it hasn't happened yet, just all eurozone countries agreed to it if its necessary
    • Ireland could make a profit from it, interest @ 5%
    • safeguarding Greece would benefit all EU member states including Ireland


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GSF


    Piriz wrote: »
    in fairness guys:
    • it hasn't happened yet, just all eurozone countried agreed to it if its necessary
    • ireland could make a profit from it, interest @ 5%
    • safeguarding Greece would benefit all EU member states including Ireland

    Greece aren't exactly a great credit risk but since we will be borrowing the money to lend to Greece that brings our own IMF/ECB bailout nearer. Isn't Ireland contributing self defeating on that basis alone?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭woodseb


    GSF wrote: »
    Greece aren't exactly a great credit risk but since we will be borrowing the money to lend to Greece that brings our own IMF/ECB bailout nearer. Isn't Ireland contributing self defeating on that basis alone?


    an extra 450ml borrowing for us at around 4.5% to lend on at 5% isn't going to tip us over the edge in terms of our own borrowing anyway

    the biggest risk to irelands debt situation is a crippling interest rate, greece is facing yields of 7.5% which is unsustainable for any eurozone nation, if they are allowed to default our interest rate would also skyrocket and the cost would be far in excess of the risk in lending 450mln to greece now

    ...in short, not being part of a solution means that we will be the next problem


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Piriz


    GSF wrote: »
    Greece aren't exactly a great credit risk but since we will be borrowing the money to lend to Greece that brings our own IMF/ECB bailout nearer. Isn't Ireland contributing self defeating on that basis alone?

    fair enough, but i'd assume the move is calculated, 450 million is not the most significant when it comes to showing support for a member state and participation within the EU. Remember the move is said to strengthen the Eurozone and benefit 'all' its members. Participation from Ireland will bring its own rewards, non-participation might be detrimental... If Ireland were in Greece's position wouldn't we prefer equal assistance from other members?
    Are we certain Ireland would be borrowing the money?
    I understand why people would be disgruntled with such an announcement due to our own Economic situation but we shouldn't close our doors and cover our ears. You scrub my back and i'll scrub yours is an attitude which would favor everyone! (IMO)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GSF


    Piriz wrote: »
    Are we certain Ireland would be borrowing the money?

    We are borrowing money already to meet current day to day expenditure, so where else would we find €450m from except by borrowing?

    It has set the precedent for future bailouts which are likely - Portugal and Spain. If Greece costs us €450m how much would Spain cost us?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭woodseb


    GSF wrote: »
    We are borrowing money already to meet current day to day expenditure, so where else would we find €450m from except by borrowing?

    It has set the precedent for future bailouts which are likely - Portugal and Spain. If Greece costs us €450m how much would Spain cost us?

    setting a precedent that EU states will be helped if worst comes to worst is the whole point of the plan to support the Euro as a currency and lower the risk of lending to EU countries

    If it comes to Spain or Portugal needing to be bailed out, the problem facing Ireland will be far more worrying than it is now and it'd be likely that we would be in no position to help given the size of the bailout needed. The greek bailout is possible at the moment because the size of the total amount can be spread over the other states and these states can borrow at rates below what would be reasonable to lend to the country in need. If Spain was in danger of going under it's hard to imagine the EU could step in again


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Piriz


    GSF wrote: »
    We are borrowing money already to meet current day to day expenditure, so where else would we find €450m from except by borrowing?

    It has set the precedent for future bailouts which are likely - Portugal and Spain. If Greece costs us €450m how much would Spain cost us?

    Well we also sent money over to support Haiti, did we borrow money to do that? Maybe we have a contingency fund for these things, i dunno. But if you think we should never help then we should never receive help either.. Quite simply it doesn't work like that and shouldn't either!
    The loan will be paid back and also turn a profit, we borrow money to help another nation who needs it, we show we are willing and involved members of the EU, all members will benefit from its outcome and we make a profit from it! Its win win!
    And if it happens with the others hopefully it'll be win win again too. If Ireland ever needs similar it'll be a great resource for us too.

    I think you are missing the part about this being a loan, hence it will be paid back with interest as a cherry on top!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    It's all part of the policy of pretending things are going reasonably well in Ireland. We've no bank failures and look at how we're able to help the Greeks!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,194 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Would pay for half the Cork - Limerick motorway easily. Disgraceful.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Piriz


    Would pay for half the Cork - Limerick motorway easily. Disgraceful.

    are you taking the piss?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Piriz wrote: »
    [*]Ireland could make a profit from it, interest @ 5%

    How can we make a profit when we will have to borrow the money back from another country to replace what we loan to greece? And where did you get this 5% rate from? The report says the money will be loaned at below market rates.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,136 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    I wouldn't say anything yet about denying Greece that kind of money. How fair away are we from needing the same thing?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    Piriz wrote: »
    in fairness guys:
    • Ireland could make a profit from it, interest @ 5%

    They said the same too about NAMA. Roll on the future so we can call on all these bets!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    This wouldn't have to even be considered if Maastricht, European EMU and the eurozone regulations had made allowance for ECB transfers in the event of an asymmetric economic shock like I said they should back in the late 90s as a mess waiting to happen in its absence. With that unavailable six months or a year ago (or even now), there's no other useful option.

    If I'd made an effort, taken the evil pill and submitted the final draft of that thesis I'd be a prophet now...<sigh>


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Piriz


    How can we make a profit when we will have to borrow the money back from another country to replace what we loan to greece? And where did you get this 5% rate from? The report says the money will be loaned at below market rates.

    From the RTE link:
    The loans would carry an interest rate of about 5% - lower than the rate currently being paid by Greece, but higher than the rate Ireland borrows at, which means in theory Ireland could make money from it.

    &

    5% is below the current 7.5% market rate Greece are borrowing at.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    It's in our interest that the Greeks are helped through their difficulties by the collective action of all eurozone members, including us. We don't want an "every man for himself" approach, because we sure as hell would have great difficulty defending our position without help.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Piriz wrote: »
    From the RTE link:
    The loans would carry an interest rate of about 5% - lower than the rate currently being paid by Greece, but higher than the rate Ireland borrows at, which means in theory Ireland could make money from it.

    &

    5% is below the current 7.5% market rate Greece are borrowing at.

    So what is this 1% ECB interest rate we are currently at? Who can borrow at that rate?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    sceptre wrote: »
    ...If I'd made an effort, taken the evil pill and submitted the final draft of that thesis I'd be a prophet now...<sigh>

    Then you would be without honour in your own country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Piriz


    EF wrote: »
    They said the same too about NAMA. Roll on the future so we can call on all these bets!

    It was only a matter of time till someone started talking sh*te about NAMA in this thread...congrats on being that person, take an iota!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Piriz wrote: »
    From the RTE link:
    The loans would carry an interest rate of about 5% - lower than the rate currently being paid by Greece, but higher than the rate Ireland borrows at, which means in theory Ireland could make money from it.

    &

    5% is below the current 7.5% market rate Greece are borrowing at.
    your math is all fishy (and the amount "pledged" grew from 250 million last week to 450 million this week :rolleyes:) you must be seriously joking if you are trying to sell this as a "good investment"
    Ireland borrows 450 million at the current 4-5% rate we get and gives it to Greece at 5%

    if we get paid back then thats one terrible investment with a real rate of 0.5-1% from Irelands perspective, yes thats right less than 1% rate for a BBB- (and on negative watch) rated "investment" :cool:

    please dont try to paint this as "good investment" its not.
    its a form of aid, pure and simple so please dont call it an "investment"

    i suppose its better than NAMA or pouring money into Anglo and never seeing it again....
    anyways by the time the money actually starts to arrive in Greece (if ever since theres some serious time wasting going on) it might be too late
    interesting times we live in, interesting times


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Piriz


    So what is this 1% ECB interest rate we are currently at? Who can borrow at that rate?

    I dunno, but i guess if they could they would, but they're not!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Piriz


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    your math is all fishy (and the amount "pledged" grew from 250 million last week to 450 million this week :rolleyes:) you must be seriously joking if you are trying to sell this as a "good investment"
    Ireland borrows 450 million at the current 4-5% rate we get and gives it to Greece at 5%

    if we get paid back then thats one terrible investment with a real rate of 0.5-1% from Irelands perspective, yes thats right less than 1% rate for a BBB- (and on negative watch) rated "investment" :cool:

    please dont try to paint this as "good investment" its not.
    its a form of aid, pure and simple so please dont call it an "investment"

    i suppose its better than NAMA or pouring money into Anglo and never seeing it again....
    anyways by the time the money actually starts to arrive in Greece (if ever since theres some serious time wasting going on) it might be too late
    interesting times we live in, interesting times

    hey, you quoted me from where i was answering some other posters question.
    I'm not trying to paint this as a "good investment", you say 'my maths is all fishy'? its not my maths, its from the article..
    I have highlighted that it would be....ah just read my other posts ffs!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭woodseb


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    your math is all fishy (and the amount "pledged" grew from 250 million last week to 450 million this week :rolleyes:) you must be seriously joking if you are trying to sell this as a "good investment"
    Ireland borrows 450 million at the current 4-5% rate we get and gives it to Greece at 5%

    if we get paid back then thats one terrible investment with a real rate of 0.5-1% from Irelands perspective, yes thats right less than 1% rate for a BBB- (and on negative watch) rated "investment" :cool:

    nobody is talking about this being a good investment on purely financial terms:rolleyes: this deal is been done because if it was done on the basis of financial investment the rate would be too high for Greece which is the problem - you've introduced this term for making a pithy point...actually i'm not sure what point you're are making

    anyway, Ireland would be making a 0.5-1% margin on this loan. The margin is what you look at in lending because the money you use to lend isn't free.....just as a bank must lend at a rate that exceeds what it pays for funds in the wholesale or deposit market.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭damnyanks


    It's about spreading the burden and showing support for the EU.

    Also imagine if we don't pay up and when we are in the exact same situation how would the rest of europe deal with us?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭Mister men


    Piriz wrote: »
    in fairness guys:
    • it hasn't happened yet, just all eurozone countries agreed to it if its necessary
    • Ireland could make a profit from it, interest @ 5%
    • safeguarding Greece would benefit all EU member states including Ireland
    So we live in a country where we leave kids without special needs assistants so we can bail out another country....thanks the EU.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭Mister men


    damnyanks wrote: »
    It's about spreading the burden and showing support for the EU.

    Also imagine if we don't pay up and when we are in the exact same situation how would the rest of europe deal with us?

    Hopefully kick us out.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭Elevator


    Piriz wrote: »
    fair enough, but i'd assume the move is calculated, 450 million is not the most significant when it comes to showing support for a member state and participation within the EU. Remember the move is said to strengthen the Eurozone and benefit 'all' its members. Participation from Ireland will bring its own rewards, non-participation might be detrimental... If Ireland were in Greece's position wouldn't we prefer equal assistance from other members?
    Are we certain Ireland would be borrowing the money?
    I understand why people would be disgruntled with such an announcement due to our own Economic situation but we shouldn't close our doors and cover our ears. You scrub my back and i'll scrub yours is an attitude which would favor everyone! (IMO)

    bollocks to the whole lot of it, have heard it all now


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