Does Ireland need a Wikileaks?

hatrickpatrick

Does anyone else feel that our country would be a lot better off if we had a site like WikiLeaks which could publicize all the hidden scandals which are apparently rampant amongst politicians and vested interests?

WikiLeaks has been running for years, it's only come to media attention over the last few weeks but it has exposed a good few other things in its time which actually led to such a public outcry as to force policy change. Could this be what Ireland needs to pull us out of the hideous "them and us" mentality our supposed servants, the government, has adopted?

wes

Well, no Ireland does not need a Wikileaks. People could just use the existing Wikileaks, to publish whistle blowing material.

Annasopra

We have something similar already

http://thestory.ie/

DeVore

It would last 5 seconds.


The laws here are worse then China, ask any journo.

DeV.

Iwasfrozen

DeVore wrote: »

The laws here are worse then China, ask any journo.

Oh come on, it may be bad but it's not worse then China.

jmcc

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Oh come on, it may be bad but it's not worse then China.

It is. In China, it is typically only the government that threatens journalists. Here, there are all sorts of threats. Most of them come from the guilty and their high priced legal mouthpieces. Then there are the PR flunkies who try to spread unattributable rumours etc. The reason why investigative journalism in Ireland is so hard is because the very fabric of the state is corrupt.

Regards...jmcc

northwest100

The Wikileaks site is currently based in Iceland and there's a proposal called The Icelandic Modern Media Initiative which if successfully passed by parliament would see Iceland become a journalist haven.

If Iceland join the EU before though, it probably won't happen.

conorhal

I'd settle for a 4th estate that did their job and spent more time investigating builders then it did plugging them in bloated property pull-outs (now mere property pamphlets), and fawning over them in the social columns........

Bob the Builder

Ireland just needs a government accountable and willing to stand up to the negative forces. If we just got an honest govt (and I don't mean FG or Labour or anyone else, just an honest government - but for the record, the greens have lost their credibility on this one), then that would satisfy me and then for everything else just use the already existing wikileaks.

Remember Wikileaks uses so many world servers and cache's, that it is nearly impossible to find out who leaked information. Such a system in Ireland, it could be narrowed down in a matter of hours.

What amazes me about Ireland is that successive governments have just tried to cover loopholes after loopholes after loopholes, by creating laws - thereby creating more loopholes and thereby requiring more laws - and then mixing more bureaucracy and corruption into the system. A vicious circle that means that no matter what you do now, you're breaking some law and stepping on someone's toes.

The leaking of the documents from the Tribunal relating to our former taoiseach is the immediate reminder for me that tells me that we need a better system of protecting journo's, when they are actually publishing resourceful information.

Sleepy

DeVore wrote: »

It would last 5 seconds.


The laws here are worse then China, ask any journo.

DeV.

Only if the site were hosted in Ireland...

DeVore

Location of your hosting is irrelevant. The offence occurs when the digital signal is rendered on the CRT or LCD screen.

Ireland is worse then China because in China, if you stand on a soapbox and say something outspoken, you get shot... ok, you made your stand, good for you...

In Ireland, if you stand on a soapbox and make your point.... the soapbox manufacturer gets shot.

Pretty soon... no one makes soapboxs or if they DO they make damned sure no one uses them to say ANYTHING.

DeV.

MysNthR0p3

DeVore wrote: »

Location of your hosting is irrelevant. The offence occurs when the digital signal is rendered on the CRT or LCD screen.

Ireland is worse then China because in China, if you stand on a soapbox and say something outspoken, you get shot... ok, you made your stand, good for you...

In Ireland, if you stand on a soapbox and make your point.... the soapbox manufacturer gets shot.

Pretty soon... no one makes soapboxs or if they DO they make damned sure no one uses them to say ANYTHING.

DeV.

Making it even more necessary to have sites like Wikileaks. The problem with the Irish is the slightest bit of negativity and we give up without a fight or even trying.

So what if the Irish law sucks, protesters in China know there's a pretty good chance they'll get shot for speaking out, they don't say "there's no point in doing this because the law here is worse than ...", they still speak out.

Having said that, I think, without proper documentary/legal evidence to back it up, your opinion about Irish law in this regard is seriously flawed.

jmcc

MysNthR0p3 wrote: »

Making it even more necessary to have sites like Wikileaks. The problem with the Irish is the slightest bit of negativity and we give up without a fight or even trying.

No we do not.

So what if the Irish law sucks, protesters in China know there's a pretty good chance they'll get shot for speaking out, they don't say "there's no point in doing this because the law here is worse than ...", they still speak out.

I don't think that you quite understand what risks any investigative journalist runs in Ireland. Most of the journalism you see in the media is either recycled press releases or opinion pieces. The cost of investigative journalism is high and it requires skills and a level of tenacity that often are beyond most journalists. It is cheaper for the publications to run with ordinary stuff that doesn't upset the not so great and never any good.

Having said that, I think, without proper documentary/legal evidence to back it up, your opinion about Irish law in this regard is seriously flawed.

In my experience, the guilty and the corrupt in Ireland will use the libel laws to try to shut down any criticism of their actions or activities. Your journalistic experience, whatever there is of it, may differ.

Regards...jmcc

bladespin

We need something for sure, shocking the amount of covering up, withholding and snti-information and noise the government are throwing out these days.

Could start with the bank guarantee and why investigations aren't allowed into what happened in the days prior to it. :rolleyes:

Also who started the whols public vs private sector squabble, suited some parties more than others.

Loads of conspiracy theories there to get it going.

OhNoYouDidn't

There was a cracking website in the 90's called Cogair (whispers) for about a year that was bang on the money all the time and whoever they were had serious contacts.

MysNthR0p3

jmcc wrote: »

I don't think that you quite understand what risks any investigative journalist runs in Ireland. Most of the journalism you see in the media is either recycled press releases or opinion pieces. The cost of investigative journalism is high and it requires skills and a level of tenacity that often are beyond most journalists. It is cheaper for the publications to run with ordinary stuff that doesn't upset the not so great and never any good.

So if I'm reading this right, you're saying a possible bullet in the back of the head (i.e. China) is more desirable than possible financial ruination (I assume that's the 'cost'). Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I always thought 'investigative journalism' was all about truth first and consequences be damned. You seem to be saying, therefore, that

a.) Few journalists in Ireland possess the abilities to be investigative and
b.) Its not worth sticking your neck out for

to which I would draw your attention back to my first point about giving up when faced with a challenge.

In my experience, the guilty and the corrupt in Ireland will use the libel laws to try to shut down any criticism of their actions or activities. Your journalistic experience, whatever there is of it, may differ.

Regards...jmcc

I'll state up front, my journalistic experience is zero. But I'd like to think that I possess a certain level of integrity, that when faced with a difficult choice I'll do the right thing. If that meant blowing the whistle on some form of corruption, then I would hope I would do so. If afterwards, I'm dragged through the legal system, and bankrupted/jailed, then I still count myself lucky to not have been lined up in front of a dirt wall and shot in the back of the head with an AK round.

Do media studies / journalism degrees not cite historical examples? Are they not told about the Veronica Guerins or Simon Cumbers of the world? Is it suddenly a big surprise that there my be consequences to reporting certain stories apart from fame? If journalists are more concerned with their safety (financial, professional, etc.) than reporting what they've uncovered, they shouldn't have become journalists.

jmcc

MysNthR0p3 wrote: »

So if I'm reading this right

No. Few journalists in Ireland have what it takes to be a good investigative journalist. Few publications can afford to fund good investigative journalism. Most of what passes for journalism in Ireland is just recycled press releases and windbaggery. Sometimes, and it is rare, good investigative journalism pieces make it through to publication.

I'll state up front, my journalistic experience is zero. But I'd like to think that I possess a certain level of integrity, that when faced with a difficult choice I'll do the right thing.

But when you are dealing with a publication, that decision is often not your decision to make.

Do media studies / journalism degrees not cite historical examples? Are they not told about the Veronica Guerins or Simon Cumbers of the world?

In between preparing their students to be just PR flaks, I suppose they may do. But if they toe the line, they may be appointed as a government press officer or to a quango board by grateful politicians in this wonderful little corrupt country.

Regards...jmcc

gavinsblog

Johnnymcg wrote: »

We have something similar already

http://thestory.ie/

In recent months we have been approached anonymously by various people, and either leaked information, or told how to procure certain information. In all cases the information has proven to be genuine, and we are researching the procurement of other data.

This goes hand in hand with a proactive policy of tactically requesting data (via FOI or EIR) in the interests of transparency.

danjo

We had the Centre for Public Inquiry but look what happened that!

oppenheimer1

jmcc wrote: »

It is. In China, it is typically only the government that threatens journalists. Here, there are all sorts of threats. Most of them come from the guilty and their high priced legal mouthpieces. Then there are the PR flunkies who try to spread unattributable rumours etc. The reason why investigative journalism in Ireland is so hard is because the very fabric of the state is corrupt.

Regards...jmcc

Hold on, the fabric of the state is not corrupt.

oppenheimer1

Its not just in Ireland that investigative journalism has gon to hell, its the same all over the world. Julian Assange in a recent interview with the Guardian described it as a disgrace that only 1000 journalists have died in the line of duty in the past 50 years.

simonj

As if RTE would ever raise awareness of any leaks that broke?
Best place to get info is sites like this and blogs

OhNoYouDidn't

simonj wrote: »

As if RTE would ever raise awareness of any leaks that broke?
Best place to get info is sites like this and blogs

They very much used to. Shows like Today Tonight used to be a consistant pain in the hole for the powers that be.

Prime Time of today on occasion lands a punch, but its infrequent as opposed to the regular occurance it used to be. And the news team do draw blood sometimes too. Wasn't the NIB/Bev Flynn scandal not a whistle blown to Charlie Bird?

The logical question is the relative infrequency of the decline in cracking stories a lack of talent within RTE of today versus 20 years ago or a policy shift or a lack of people risking their necks with leaks? I would suggest a bit of all three.

andrewire

simonj wrote: »

As if RTE would ever raise awareness of any leaks that broke?
Best place to get info is sites like this and blogs

True. RTÉ has such a shameful pro-FF bias. Most of their "stars" are FF too.