re-train TB advice

paddlepop

Hello all,

I have a TB i have been riding since Oct last year. He is really great at hacking up the forest and is very forward-going (aren't they all)

However in the arena his canter is just a mess. Our transitions are perfect from walk-trot, they are ok trot-walk(we are working on this) but the canter is just a mess that I cant even attempt it. He gallops, but cant canter. His transition from trot to canter is horrendous. When I ask for canter he just trots faster! It takes the length of the arena to get into canter and by that time we're at gallop! He's not balanced at all so turning isnt pretty. SO I have brought him back to basics and i put him on the lunge. Is there anything else i can be doing to try and get his canter slower? I was thinking of getting out in the field and cantering in really big circles because the arena just isnt big enough. Suggestions welcome as I would love to be able to canter along side my fellow riders instead of either trotting at full pace or galloping and leaving them all behind!

convert

When I moved from ponies to horses, I went from quite a relatively stocky half bred 13hh pony to a 15hh TB mare who was extremely inexperienced. While she had never raced, I still thought that she was really quick and was galloping when she was actually only cantering; she was just a lot quicker than I was used to. If you're not used to TBs, then this could be part of the 'problems' you're experiencing.

That's not to say for a moment that the horse isn't going a little too quick when you ask it to canter, but it is something to bear in mind.

One of the main areas you need to work on is the transitions from trot to canter. I found this was the main area I had to work on with my mare, as, when asked to trot, she, like your horse, would tend to 'run' on in a trot rather than striking off into a canter. What I started to do was teach her how to half halt in a trot, especially at the corners. Then I started to work on our transitions from trot to canter. Before I asked her to canter, I collected her and ensured she had impulsion (i.e. going forward from her hind part). Then, when she was nicely on the bit, I'd ask her to canter in the corner. If she didn't do it immediately and started to 'run' at the trot, I'd simply half halt, regroup and begin the process again. Although she initially was cantering quite quickly, she had learned about smooth transitions from trot to canter.

Once I had the upward transitions sorted, I began to work on her canter and worked on collecting her and asking her to come down on the bit so I could begin to do half halts in order to slow down the pace of the canter. Again, it will take a while, and you need a lot of patience, but it will work. And when it does so, it's really really rewarding.

Just a quick question: if you stand up in your stirrups and ask the horse to canter in the same way a jockey would (i.e. just letting your hands rest on the neck and kicking off into a canter) will the horse just fall into the canter or will he still 'run' at the trot? If he does happen to just canter 'normally' (i.e. not running) then you could perhaps try to do this in the arena, and gradually work on teaching him to canter with you sitting in the saddle.

paddlepop

thanks Convert-thats given me a lot to work on. Hes a big boy-17 hands so yes he could just be cantering but when his friends canter beside him and hes still running in trot i get frustrated-plus trying to ride nicely in that gait is very hard! I dont really know how to do half halts but i get the idea. Rambo isnt on the bit yet either or even collected as sticks his big ole neck out so trying to get him round and from behind is also a little difficult. But I will work on the transitions.
And in answer to your question-no i wouldnt stand up in the stirrups. If anything I will try and avoid doing anything remotely like jockey riding so he dosent think "and we're off!". I tend to try and sit deep in the saddle and not lean forward at all...
Thnks!

convert

You could try taking a look at the Pony Club or BHS Manuals - they would probably give some basic advice re some of the techniques you need for flatwork schooling, and the aids, etc. required for half halts, collection, etc. I'm sure there are other good books out there. If you happen to know some instructors who are familiar with your riding and with your horse, they may be able to recommend some books which would suit your needs.

convert

Oh, and a long dressage whip will also help if you're finding him very big and a little 'long' when you're riding him.

shanagarry

I'd agree with what convert has said, he needs to learn that he can't run into canter. So when he starts running, rather than continue to push until he eventually runs into canter, bring him back to a slow steady trot, or even walk, and then ask again. Eventually he will learn that he has to 'pop' into canter. You may find this easier to do on the lunge initially.

Are you using side reins on the lunge? They would help improve his shape and balance, but be careful not to make them too tight initially.

Also, continue to focus on your walk and trot - the canter will automatically improve if you get him more balance and controlled at the slower paces, where it is easier to work but to keep control at the same time.

JEmily

Hi Paddlepop,

Welcome to the wonderful world that is TB's. And an ex-racehorse which is even more work. But don't worry it's all worth it;)

I have a TB ex-racehorse 3 years now and they are brilliant, you might need a bit more patience but they are very eager to please. Sometimes too clever but i love their quirks,.

I had exactly the same problem as you re: canter. Alot of them don't know they have another pace bar walk, trot, gallop. I remeber when we started cantering the minute i ever asked for trot he wanted to canter in this new-found gait, he loved it.

The best advice i EVER got was yes, lungeing is very helpful, also builds up the muscles he'll need to stay balanced in canter. Alot of it is there balance is not good, you'll find one rein will be dissasterous. While the other he'll just fall in or get very unbalanced hence, fast trotting.
The othe rpiece of advice is bring him back to walk and ask for canter from walk. Before you say it i said the same "but we've never done walk to canter before, it will be dissaster". It's actually better than you think, because he's coming from walk he'll tend to go into canter and be balanced much better. And they don't get all worked up about "the canter in the corner coming" you'll see he'll relax, use himself and not drag you around the arena. Try it.
Also just ask for canter by seat if you can, shift weight of inside bum seat into the saddle, ask for canter by queeze, tap, tap, no need to throw outside leg back. They will know what leg by your bodyweight, and they are very sensitive so you'll be surprised they will understand.

Hope you can understand that, try it and see how you get on.

paddlepop

Thanks for all the replies. Its re assuring to know other people have the same challenges as me!
I rode him in the arena on Sunday. I did lots of walk-trot-walk transitions and he is doing so well on those. He is really clever and picks things up quickly. He is learning voice commands which is quite nice and easy. I dont have to use any leg on him really so those paces are nice. Although I do find the sitting trot very hard. I ride a cob on the weekends and she is lovely to sit trot to, but my TB is soooooooooo high and bouncy that i really cannot sit at all-I have no control and tend to lean forward and hang on to the reins. I have tried the half-halts and he seems to be getting the idea there too and we have slowed the trot down but its still so hard to sit to! He has a hard enough mouth so I do find I tend to have a hard contact on him to get him to slow down-I wonder should I change the bit(currently a full cheek french link)...?

I finally got the nerve up to try a canter on a 20 m circle not knowing what would happen. The only other times i have cantered on him was around the full arena. Well! He finally got into canter but only after trotting fast for a round! Then once we got going he got so unbalanced that we both kind of fell into the middle of the circle! Both of us leaning. I thought i could slow him down but decreasing the circle but it only made him faster! So it took me alot of effort to stop him and that took another round to go back into trot and walk. It was hard work. But he does actually have a nice canter(i only got 3 times around each way) so I excited I managed to do it.

Yes when I lunge him I have him on side reins-on the longest ones so he isnt too tight. Whats the best way to ask for canter on the lunge? "canter" and a click? I dont use the whip as he doesnt need it. All I need to do to get him going is use the tail of the lunge rope. He trots immediately on the lunge and hates walking. It takes me an age to get him back into walk on the lunge.

I will do alot more lunging in the walk-canter transitions and keep working on him. He is a very clever boy and i think he'll come good in the end!
thanks will keep you posted.

Bellemz

I'm doing something similar with a 17.1 though he's not my first TB to reschool.

I found being very light in the saddle in canter helped him to balance and collect in canter. It also makes it easier for him to right himself if he's finding corners difficult in the school...

paddlepop

how do you mean Bellemz....light in the saddle? More weight in the stirrups and less in the bum? What do you do?

I find if i am too far forward he tends to go forward more so i try to actually sit deeper in the saddle and if he gets too fast i try to "block" him with my seat. Dont know if this is right...

Any more tips??:D

Bellemz

Yes, more weight in the stirrups and get your bum out of the saddle. Leg still, body almost upright, not in jumping position. I find some of them will react to tension from your seat and go faster or they're so busy listening to your seat that they forget to balance themselves around those corners. Lots of half halting in this light seat, with my centre of gravity moving forwards and back over the saddle as I hover seems to work well with this guy anyway, they're all different. I find it gives him less to think about and he responds great.

Re: lunging, the bigger the circle the better, make him maintain a correct circle shape and bend the whole time, none of this drifting in and out business. That will help him improve his own balance too...

JEmily

Agree with post above. My thoroughbred loves an XC seat, out of saddle, bum back, leg secure. He actually chills right out. If he gets a bit excited, few half halts and then he'll relax and get on with the job. This works before show jumping to loosen him out, then i find i can sit quietly in the saddle upright and i find he can balance much better. He loves the XC seat when we're doing hunter trials etc. Think this is his forte anyway, ha! But even try it before any show, Dressage, Showing etc. to loosen him up first.

Also, my horsey doens't walk when i first put him on the lunge (3 years on), so just push him on in the trot until he gets it out of his system, then you can tell him when to walk etc. Just make sure you push him on (working trot) with your command in trot, not him dictating the pace etc.

Good luck.

Theponylady

There are several books written specifically about re-training racehorses. You might try a search on Amazon.com or ebay and see if you can find them, they might be useful.

The problem you have is pretty common with ex-racehorses. It's not just because they raced and are used to galloping-it's because they have been bred just to run(particularly if they are bred for flat racing as opposed to national hunt and steeplechase racing), and they are not built to have a balanced quiet canter. They can ALL learn, but sometimes it takes a lot of training to get there.

Lunging with side reins can be very useful. The bigger the circle, the better. And rather than asking the horse to go round and round at the canter, you are better off asking him to get into a balanced trot, then ask for canter, canter maybe once or twice around, then back to trot. Ask for the trot BEFORE the horse falls apart and starts galloping or breaks to trot. It might only be possible to get halfway around a circle at canter before you need to break him down to trot, and you may only be able to get it two or three times each direction per session. He's going to have to build up muscles in the right areas to be able to keep his balance and stay together at the canter. It will probably take months of steady work to start seeing improvement. Lots of up and down transitions, asking the horse to hold the canter a few steps longer when you see him holding it easily at the level you've been at. You might get half way around for the first week or two, then a full time around, then after another week or two, he might keep it twice around.

Don't lunge the horse every day. Maybe 3 times a week will do. More than that, and they can get sore and cranky-same as what would happen to you if you suddenly started going to the gym and working out hard when you weren't used to it. Even a fit racehorse, if he's used to only galloping and not cantering, is not going to have the correct muscles built up to be able to canter in a frame quietly.

I used to train quite a number of ex-racehorses. Just take your time, don't get in a hurry, and you will get the job done.

Friskyfilly

Know what you mean. God love them they are a mess when they come out of training. It will take some practice alright. Having him on the lunge is good alright but it will take practice up on his back to get him to do the transaction better and better. One suggestion is to attempt it in corners and if he does not go within a few strides bring him back to a working trot. Try again in the next corner, again giving him plenty of warning sitting trot, clicks, leg aids, of course it will be all over the shop to begin with but you will get there when he does. Another thing is maybe try and get him to go from walk to canter, what harm is it going to do and back again to walk, I would try anything once, does not give him that much time to run on in the trot in this case.
When you want to slow him down, think slow you.... nice soft easy jelly everything is fluffy clouds slow keep saying it to him and slow down your riding, if you slow your rising trot it will in time get him to slow his trot same in canter, your prob keeping up to him, try and teach him threw your body, slooooow slooooow nice and slow you think slow and I bet he will slowly get the idea. Even throw the reins at him a little dont grab him all up tight cos that's what he is used to.
You just keep thinking slow and keep telling him and he will start to come around.