Wrong reading on Pump

fred funk }{

I went to a garage today to fill up like I normally do, I have a fuel card. I drive a Citroen Berlingo 1.9D 2004 and it normally takes about 55 litres of there abouts depending on whats left in the tank.

Today it took over 66 litres :eek: and it had some in the tank before i started filling, the light was on but the needle wasn't anywhere near the bottom. I couldn't believe it when I seen the reading on the pump, I checked under the van to see if it had been leaking out but it wasn't. I would sometimes fill it to the brim but today I stopped it at the first click when I seen the reading.

I said it to the shop assistant but she told me to call the number on the receipt tomorrow and argue it with them. I think I was charged for about 10 Litres more than I got.

When I got home I checked my previous receipts to check the amount of litres that I recieved, they were all in and around the 55 litre mark, one was 57 but I remember one when I filled up I was on fumes so thats that one.

Any ideas lads?

L1011

Get on to the NSAI and request that they test the pumps. The pump should reset to zero when taken off the hanger so there shouldn't be any way you could have a previous dispense added on.

MacGyver

according to the citroen wesite the berlingo has a 60 litre fuel tank, there may be a reserve in it but i doubt it. my GF had a similar problem in a different brand car and the garage refunded her on the spot. she had kept an eye on the meter and saw it skip up a tenner.

GTE

MYOB wrote: »

Get on to the NSAI and request that they test the pumps. The pump should reset to zero when taken off the hanger so there shouldn't be any way you could have a previous dispense added on.

The pumps can be wrong in terms of "thinking" they are putting out more litres then they are.

Essentially, and I have to think about this cause it confuses me, it can be programmed to think that a litre is in fact less then a litre so for 10 true litres you get 12 displayed for example.

At my station in the last few years we have gotten some random tests where they pump an amount of fuel and make sure its correct. Additionally my boss pumps out a litre from each pump into a jug to see if they are staying calibrated every week.

I know I started this post off saying the pumps can be programmed but I can imagine that with belt drives and things like that in the pump it can "detune" itself over time but I can only imagine that the differences would be minimal. Not skipping a tenner :O :O :O

vectra

have yoyu got the handbook? It should say the tank capacity on it.
if so bring it to the garage along with youe receipt and ask them to explain it to you.;)

Bandara

I think I can solve this one

smart arse comes into petrol station, get ten euros of fuel, when hanging up the pump he leaves it half in the cradle and gets into his car and leaves without paying. The significance of the pump being half in the cradle is that the transaction is still open and the girl on the till cannot see the transaction on her till at all.

Next customer comes to the pump and picks up the pump and starts to fill (unknown to him the pump starts dispensing where it left off at ten euro).

Customer puts his normal fill in but gets told it's ten euro more than his car normally takes. Girl on till has to get paid the full amount as it blatently looks like the customer has got the fuel.

This might sound fantastical, I see it happening in my sites at LEAST once a week.

As an aside, pumps are incredibly accurate and cannot 'get confused', in all my years in the forecourt business I have never seen a pump tally wrong.

OP it's going to be hard for you to prove, ask the station manager to view the camera of the person before you, see if they got and PAID for fuel.

HT

Matt Simis

Hammertime wrote: »

I think I can solve this one

As an aside, pumps are incredibly accurate and cannot 'get confused', in all my years in the forecourt business I have never seen a pump tally wrong.

OP it's going to be hard for you to prove, ask the station manager to view the camera of the person before you, see if they got and PAID for fuel.

HT

Mmm.. dunno about that at all. Two stations on my commute (well, there are 4, but 2 with issues):

The station in Summerhill always overreads. Always. Ive said it to them twice already. Its not 10litres off, but at least 6. There is absolutely no way its what you describe. Pumps not being confused is irrelevant if the pump is incorrectly configured (purposely or not). Its also incredibly slow at fueling.

The pump in Kildalkey on the other hand displays gibberish on the display, you have no idea what you are putting in. Like that at least 9 months.

I can only imagine how "accurately" these pumps are calibrated.... :rolleyes: I think its more likely we are looking at that stereotype of Irish business.. mild corruption mixed with moderate ineptitude.

skyhighflyer

Hammertime wrote: »

I think I can solve this one

smart arse comes into petrol station, get ten euros of fuel, when hanging up the pump he leaves it half in the cradle and gets into his car and leaves without paying. The significance of the pump being half in the cradle is that the transaction is still open and the girl on the till cannot see the transaction on her till at all.

Next customer comes to the pump and picks up the pump and starts to fill (unknown to him the pump starts dispensing where it left off at ten euro).

Customer puts his normal fill in but gets told it's ten euro more than his car normally takes. Girl on till has to get paid the full amount as it blatently looks like the customer has got the fuel.

This might sound fantastical, I see it happening in my sites at LEAST once a week.

As an aside, pumps are incredibly accurate and cannot 'get confused', in all my years in the forecourt business I have never seen a pump tally wrong.

OP it's going to be hard for you to prove, ask the station manager to view the camera of the person before you, see if they got and PAID for fuel.

HT

On our site the till system started reading as soon as someone started to pump the fuel. You couldn't clear the sale until the pump was hung up but until then you got a live reading of what was being put in the car. I'd expect the girl on the till to notice the display for pump 3 or whatever suspended as 'in use' for a tenner with nobody at the pump before the next customer drove up.

That said, I saw all the usual boloxology being spouted by customers too (not directed at you OP) - the fuel guage on the customer's car would get jammed (fcuking Renaults :mad:), people would BS you with 'my Transit only holds 50 litres, or 'I put a tenner in but it's not even a quarter full'. I often had recourse to google for tank capacities for various cars and trucks during my time there.

But in this case it sounds like the OP has a genuine issue.

The only thing I would suggest (OP: please don't take offence but it happens) - be sure you're not reading the price instead of the litres on the receipt. 55 litres of diesel would cost around €66 at current fuel card rates.

kwalshe

This is the website you are looking for. Legal Metrology

http://www.nsai.ie/About-NSAI/Departments/LMS.aspx

Make sure you keep your receipt. I think the theory on somebody leaving an uppaid €10 on the meter do sound feasible, surely the system should be able to flag if a transaction takes a long amount of time.

fred funk }{

I'll ring them tomorrow and let you know what they say.

I never not fill it up so I Know how much the van takes, there's defo something wrong somewhere. Thanks for the replies.

si_guru

I have a Berlingo... 55 litres from empty(ish) every time.. 12 gallons - 600 miles. Everytime.

L1011

Matt Simis wrote: »

The station in Summerhill always overreads. Always. Ive said it to them twice already. Its not 10litres off, but at least 6. There is absolutely no way its what you describe. Pumps not being confused is irrelevant if the pump is incorrectly configured (purposely or not). Its also incredibly slow at fueling.

Theres a few Summerhill's but I know of one where the single stations' diesel pump appears to be older than me (think its a flip-over dial system) and takes an eternity to fill - but I've never noticed it over-reading before. Wouldn't have used it often though.

GTE

Hammertime made a very good point and one which I have unfortunatly had to put up with a few times in my time working at the petrol station.

Depending what brands of pump and what control system they come with they:
- DO NOT tell you when the pump is laying idle mid fill.
By that I mean, someone fills 5er, stops to have a chat while leaving the nozzle in the car and then fills the other 5er after the chat. I get a display saying the pump is in use and it does not have to be touched by me. I can only investigate if its pumping if I go into some submenu's.

On a busy day when there are lines of cars waiting to get a fill it can be missed by me. (but see the 3rd point, its not my fault )

- People can be smart arses and fill their car with a tenner, leave the pump nozzle in such a way that it doesnt click in and Im none the wiser on a busy stretch.

- Everytime someone has compained about a problem like that, they couldnt tell me for sure whether the pump was displaying 0 before they filled.

skyhighflyer's point is a good one, about the till person noticing no car at a pump that says its pumping but that can not be guaranteed at every instance so essentially, its an invalid point. It can simply be too busy to really notice. Especially on the older pump systems.

Since the new pumps have come into my service station I have had at least one person a day confuse the litres with the euros also. Not directing that at the OP cause I know there are dodgy things out there but you would still be amazed at the sheer amount of people who make that mistake.

EDIT:
The speed at which a pump fills I think is largely irrelevant also. If a station was going to fiddle the pumps it would be to a very small amount so they could at least argue their point if caught. And that way over the course of the whole amount of fuel in their tanks, they are making a good bit more money.
The old pumps in the place I work were sllllllllooooooooowwwwwww to fill but still bang on target calibration wise. We have one new and one old in the station and the difference is drastic.

If a station fiddles the pumps to such a degree that the fill time is considerably altered, quite frankly they are idiots. I dont see how they could defend themselves, because they would try, which such a huge discrepancy.

Voodoomelon

Its beyond me how someone wouldn't look at the readout before starting to fill?

bongi69

bbk wrote: »

- Everytime someone has compained about a problem like that, they couldnt tell me for sure whether the pump was displaying 0 before they filled.

I'll take your point, I always check. But say I drive up to the pump, take the nozzle off, and wait for it to reset which it doesn't because the fecker using the pump before me pulled a fast one.

I replace the nozzle and go into the shop to ask what the hell is the story. How likely would it be that the assistant would believe me? For all they know I've put a tenners worth in my car, am now being smart asking to reset the meter so I can get another tenner, essentially getting a tenners worth free.

Or worse, I move to a different pump, and the assistant sees that there's money owing on the original pump and me now using a different pump, and tries to spring me for the amount on the original pump that I pulled up to?

If it was my local garage, I'm sure they'd give me the benefit of doubt as we're all almost on 1st name terms, thats how often I'm there, but say it was a station down the country and there's me with my Dub plates and accent.

GTE

bongi69 wrote: »

I'll take your point, I always check. But say I drive up to the pump, take the nozzle off, and wait for it to reset which it doesn't because the fecker using the pump before me pulled a fast one.

I replace the nozzle and go into the shop to ask what the hell is the story. How likely would it be that the assistant would believe me? For all they know I've put a tenners worth in my car, am now being smart asking to reset the meter so I can get another tenner, essentially getting a tenners worth free.
Busy day and I dont know you then I wouldnt believe you. You shouldnt have replaced the nozzle. Id get the BEEP saying its been replaced and all seems normal, but if I notice that you drove up and directly went into the shop saying something was up and there was an amount of fuel owed that couldnt have been filled in time Id be on your side.

Or worse, I move to a different pump, and the assistant sees that there's money owing on the original pump and me now using a different pump, and tries to spring me for the amount on the original pump that I pulled up to?
On a busy day that would be suspicious but if it was a slow pace I would notice that there is a tenner missing and no car at the pump, but if you arrive directly after the git who did that left and I was busy tending to customers etc. then I would be suspicious and not release the next pump you go to.

If it was my local garage, I'm sure they'd give me the benefit of doubt as we're all almost on 1st name terms, thats how often I'm there, but say it was a station down the country and there's me with my Dub plates and accent.
Indeed locals do get the benefit of the doubt so I would take the money off them or stick the offending amount on to an account or day book, put in a request to review the CCTV and sort it out. If a non local was sure enough that they did nothing wrong I would put in the same request but I could only imagine you would have to wait and not leave until its sorted.

Voodoomelon, its beyond me too!

Thankfully the station I work at is generally at a pace that nothing goes wrong but I can only imagine how difficult it could be in a busy Dublin or commuter station.

I had a bad one though last year. Someone got 60 worth of fuel and left the nozzle ajar and drove off without me noticing. It was reported but nothing could be or nothing was done about it.

merchant08

Hammertime wrote: »

I think I can solve this one

smart arse comes into petrol station, get ten euros of fuel, when hanging up the pump he leaves it half in the cradle and gets into his car and leaves without paying. The significance of the pump being half in the cradle is that the transaction is still open and the girl on the till cannot see the transaction on her till at all.

Next customer comes to the pump and picks up the pump and starts to fill (unknown to him the pump starts dispensing where it left off at ten euro).

Customer puts his normal fill in but gets told it's ten euro more than his car normally takes. Girl on till has to get paid the full amount as it blatently looks like the customer has got the fuel.

This might sound fantastical, I see it happening in my sites at LEAST once a week.

As an aside, pumps are incredibly accurate and cannot 'get confused', in all my years in the forecourt business I have never seen a pump tally wrong.

OP it's going to be hard for you to prove, ask the station manager to view the camera of the person before you, see if they got and PAID for fuel.

HT

Is it not really hard to leave the nozzle back and not trigger the reset latch, ie it would be obvious to the 2nd person that there is something up because the nozzle is in a very unusual postion on the pump?

Does the pump not reset after being idle for a while?

Also would the vibration/noise of the pump running not alert the 2nd person?

GTE

merchant08 wrote: »

Is it not really hard to leave the nozzle back and not trigger the reset latch, ie it would be obvious to the 2nd person that there is something up because the nozzle is in a very unusual postion on the pump?

Does the pump not reset after being idle for a while?

Also would the vibration/noise of the pump running not alert the 2nd person?

No, no and no. Sadly. Again, thats depending on the system. I think our newer one is a lot safer in that sence though. Most gits just fill and run, they arent devious enough to bother putting the nozzle in such a way.

Having said that, if it were to happen the shop assistant is bound to notice that the pump says its in use and there is no car there so the pump can be reset and no one gets mischarged. Its when there is a queue of cars and the resulting busyment in the shop is when the problem happens.

Also, if a pump has two nozzles on it, one for each side someone could merely think its the other side being used when, it probably is also.

mot_Socks

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Its beyond me how someone wouldn't look at the readout before starting to fill?

Been awhile since I filled a car but doesn't the last amount input always display until someone lifts to fil, then it resets to 0. If the nozzle not put back right you might not notice that is didn't clock back to 0 and thus are screwed. Usually if tills are out there's major issue behind till. Till girl may at that point not care who pays for the fuel if she missed it.

nmacc

I thought I'd had an excess reading when filling up at my local garage and contacted the Metrology folks. They were very efficient and called me less than a week later to say that they had been to the garage and checked the pump in question (don't forget to tell them which pump) and that all was well.

In the intervening period I had figured out why the reading seemed so high and realised it was entirely my mistake.

I can't speak for anyone else's experience, but in my case it's full marks to Metrologoy for efficiency.

Voodoomelon

mot_Socks wrote: »

Been awhile since I filled a car but doesn't the last amount input always display until someone lifts to fil, then it resets to 0. If the nozzle not put back right you might not notice that is didn't clock back to 0 and thus are screwed. Usually if tills are out there's major issue behind till. Till girl may at that point not care who pays for the fuel if she missed it.

True enough, but I always wait until it drops to zero.

jimmycrackcorm

If the pump handle is still active then the motor is running and I think another user would definitely notice that.

GTE

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If the pump handle is still active then the motor is running and I think another user would definitely notice that.

Maybe, but I doubt it would be a wide spread thing considering you can have two sides to the pump and someone on the other side pumping away.

Bandara

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If the pump handle is still active then the motor is running and I think another user would definitely notice that.

No the motor goes to a lower almost quiet pitch if the pump has not dispensed for 60 seconds

deRanged

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If the pump handle is still active then the motor is running and I think another user would definitely notice that.

I doubt it. I once did that by mistake. It was when I was trying to pay and the girl couldn't find a pump with the same amount owing that I was trying to pay that we figured it out. I hadn't noticed a thing.