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No NCT - The consequences?
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08-04-2010 7:15pm#1
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Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!Join Date:Posts: 64848
No NCT Cert does not equal not roadworthy.
NCT Cert does not mean your car is road-worthy.
Common misconceptions.
Try and convince a judge with those semantics after your out of NCT car caused an accident and your insurance company has just proved your car was not road-worthy
Edit: I ain't ridin' a high horse here folks, BTW. I put my car back on the road from March 1st (while out of NCT) but only after booking an NCT appointment and having a copy of the NCT booking appointment with me in the car. And I was pretty confident the car was roadworthy (except for ABS and ASC not working until I got them fixed). The car passed the NCT earlier this week after the faulty wheel speed sensor causing the ABS and ASC problem was replacedLotus Elan turbo for sale:
https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/lotus-elan-turbo/38336785
My ads on adverts.ie:
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No, no truth in it. You can thank the Road Traffic Act 1963 for that one iirc...I heard your insurance wont pay up if you have no NCT and are involved in a coillision. Any truth to this?No NCT Cert does not equal not roadworthy.
NCT Cert does not mean your car is road-worthy.
Common misconceptions.
BTW no NCT Cert is a 5-penalty point offence. Driving the wrong way down a motorway is a 2 penalty point offence.
No NCT Cert = 5 penalty points, unroadworthy vehicle = 2 points, max.
Go figure!
All trueTry and convince a judge with those semantics after your out of NCT car caused an accident and your insurance company has just proved your car was not road-worthy
tut tut Unk - you're assuming his car is unroadworthy...... Having an NCT does not make it roadworthy. For proof, and paraphrasing your good self, Try and convince a judge your current NCT cert trumps your car being unroadworthy (as stated in court by the ins co's assessor, and/or Garda Technical......), and so caused an accident ,and your insurance company will take you to the cleaners. After they pay the 3rd Party, first, that is........Ode To The Motorist
“And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road”
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You haven't been able to get a booking since last September :eek: :rolleyes:
Servicing a car is more of an inconvenience than a NCT test, is that too much trouble also??
I haven't tried!
My cars are always fully serviced, and are always road-worthy. As it happens I don't scrimp and never have, scrimped on servicing.Try and convince a judge with those semantics after your out of NCT car caused an accident and your insurance company has just proved your car was not road-worthy
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What judge? I do not envisage my car "causing" any accident, because it is road-worthy. A scrap of paper does not determine the road-worthiness of my car. (If you crash on your way home from NCT test, the NCT will not vouch for the road-worthiness of your car.)
As to how any Insurance company can "prove" the un-roadworthiness? Surely this would only be in the event of some fault?
Note, if you have a tyre on your car without the "E" marking, you fail the NCT. Does it mean that, with such a tyre, your car is un-roadworthy?
If your indicator bulb is not "yellow" enough, you fail the NCT. Does that mean your car should not be on the road?
Why does the NCT not give a 2 year certificate for cars being tested after the 2-year anniversary of their first registration? They will only give you a cert up to the 2-year anniversary of your registration, even if this is only a few months away.
The points penalties for no NCT show how f'ed up the whole system is, it being a false industry, artificially created.0 -
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my NCT was up in mid-March. I stupidly assumed that they would send me a reminder letter with the next appointment. They didn't. (although they did previously). I only noticed it was out of date when changing my tax disc.
I rang the NCT centre to get an appointment (Naas)- the earliest they have is mid-May. I have the appointment letter in the car -I hope this will do if I am stopped by a guard some night!
I did ask the girl on the phone if a reminder/appointment should've been sent out, her exact words were "They are usually sent out - but if they are not you have to ring to make an appointment".
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Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!Join Date:Posts: 64848
I'm stunned at the level of advice on Insurance being offered in this forum.
That's cause it is no exact science
BTW I never said that a valid NCT is proof of roadworthiness and a lack of a valid NCT is proof of unroadworthiness. None of ye except peasant got that.
But if I were an insurance company like e.g. Quinn direct (:)) than I would try and find out how I could avoid paying a claim. A good starting point would be an invalid NCT. A very severe examination of the car by one of my friendly and thorough assessors would be next. You getting the picture yet? Lotus Elan turbo for sale:
https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/lotus-elan-turbo/38336785
My ads on adverts.ie:
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That's cause it is no exact science
BTW I never said that a valid NCT is proof of roadworthiness and a lack of a valid NCT is proof of unroadworthiness. None of ye except peasant got that.
But if I were an insurance company like e.g. Quinn direct (:)) than I would try and find out how I could avoid paying a claim. A good starting point would be an invalid NCT. A very severe examination of the car by one of my friendly and thorough assessors would be next. You getting the picture yet?
You're p1ssing into the wind unfortunately with some folk
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That's cause it is no exact science
BTW I never said that a valid NCT is proof of roadworthiness and a lack of a valid NCT is proof of unroadworthiness. None of ye except peasant got that.
But if I were an insurance company like e.g. Quinn direct (:)) than I would try and find out how I could avoid paying a claim. A good starting point would be an invalid NCT. A very severe examination of the car by one of my friendly and thorough assessors would be next. You getting the picture yet?
I get the picture more that you think!
I never rely on conjecture or speculation, unlike, apparently, so many others.0 -
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Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!Join Date:Posts: 64848
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055878980
so, no NCT because a VIN cannot be found, on the chassis.
Obviously a dangerous defect and rending the car unsafe on the roads, eh?
My car failed the NCT once because the "Cliath" on my numberplate looked more like "Oliath"
(Do a search - it is out there somewhere, although the pictures might have been lost after one of the boards.ie backups failed years ago)
But you still don't get my point, do you? The car failing the NCT is a starting point for the insurance company. If the car failed e.g. because the tyres were bald, the insurance company can stop their research straight away and refuse to pay the 1st party claim and have the proof right in their hands (NCT results)Lotus Elan turbo for sale:
https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/lotus-elan-turbo/38336785
My ads on adverts.ie:
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my NCT was up in mid-March. I stupidly assumed that they would send me a reminder letter with the next appointment. They didn't. (although they did previously). I only noticed it was out of date when changing my tax disc.
I rang the NCT centre to get an appointment (Naas)- the earliest they have is mid-May. I have the appointment letter in the car -I hope this will do if I am stopped by a guard some night!
I did ask the girl on the phone if a reminder/appointment should've been sent out, her exact words were "They are usually sent out - but if they are not you have to ring to make an appointment".
Ring them back and remind them you'll be having that test for free because they haven't lived up to their charter imposed by the contract for the NCT, < 28 days wait or test is free.0 -
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But you still don't get my point, do you? The car failing the NCT is a starting point for the insurance company. If the car failed e.g. because the tyres were bald, the insurance company can stop their research straight away and refuse to pay the 1st party claim and have the proof right in their hands (NCT results)
No they cannot. A bald tyre on the date of an NCT test does not infer that the tyre on the car on another date is/was bald. (I know someone who borrowed four tyres for the NCT, his own four being bald. He was out the same evening with four bald tyres and a new NCT cert)
I do get your point, but I don't agree with it. My point is the NCT test is pretty much useless. It has no bearing on the road-worthiness of a car.
I don't have comprehensive Insurance, so there will be no first party claim, BTW.Worst case scenario:
You cause an accident, putting several people into permanent special care, the claim runs into millions ...you have no NCT.
Your insurance pays out millions to the injured parties and promptly drags you into court to claim it back because they say your car was not roadworthy because it had no NCT.
You get your twisted wreck of a car examined, but due to the damage it can not be clearly established that it was indeed roadworthy at the time of the accident, it certainly isn't roadworthy now.
You get to carry the can and every cent that wou will ever earn will be promptly taken off you by the insurance to claim back the cost.
In light of that I personally find 50 Euro and one hour of my time for a valid NCT disc rather cheap ...but hey ...you go right ahead fighting the system.
Can you show me one case, in the history of the NCT, where anything like that has happened?
This fanciful story will not happen, nor is it likely to happen.
Your imagination is running away with you.
My Insurance policy(ies) do not stipulate any NCT requirement, BTW.
It really is no wonder we have systems like we do in this country, when such an idiotic system is accepted point-blank by so many.0 -
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No they cannot. A bald tyre on the date of an NCT test does not infer that the tyre on the car on another date is/was bald. (I know someone who borrowed four tyres for the NCT, his own four being bald. He was out the same evening with four bald tyres and a new NCT cert)
I do get your point, but I don't agree with it. My point is the NCT test is pretty much useless. It has no bearing on the road-worthiness of a car.
I don't have comprehensive Insurance, so there will be no first party claim, BTW.
Can you show me one case, in the history of the NCT, where anything like that has happened?
This fanciful story will not happen, nor is it likely to happen.
Your imagination is running away with you.
My Insurance policy(ies) do not stipulate any NCT requirement, BTW.
It really is no wonder we have systems like we do in this country, when such an idiotic system is accepted point-blank by so many.
My girlfriend got refused insurance simply because her car wasn't NCT'd. Can't remember what comapny it was but I'd say it would be in their terms and conditions.
I can't understand why you are so against the NCT at all. You gave the example of your friend with four bald tyres. He should be put off the road for driving around in a car like that. That is why he would have failed if he had his regular tyres on the car. Because it would not be roadworthy.0 -
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Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!Join Date:Posts: 64848
No they cannot. A bald tyre on the date of an NCT test does not infer that the tyre on the car on another date is/was bald. (I know someone who borrowed four tyres for the NCT, his own four being bald. He was out the same evening with four bald tyres and a new NCT cert)
Ok my last attempt
A bald tyre on the date of an NCT is proof that the car was not road worthy and the driver knows it was not roadworthy (because the NCT report told him). If the car is subsequently involved in a crash, the NCT sheet is still proof that the car was not roadworthy at the time of the crash. Unless the claimant can prove otherwise
My point is that the NCT result is an easy starting point for an insurer on his path of not paying out.Lotus Elan turbo for sale:
https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/lotus-elan-turbo/38336785
My ads on adverts.ie:
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Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!Join Date:Posts: 64848
Those statistics don't prove anything at all.
Except maybe that the low number of fatalities these days compared to pre-NCT times is largely contributable to the NCT
Lotus Elan turbo for sale:
https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/lotus-elan-turbo/38336785
My ads on adverts.ie:
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........... ............ Those statistics don't prove anything at all. ...............
On the contrary, they prove that vehicle defects account for a minute percentage of crashes.
To prove the NCT has made cars safer is a different kettle of fish entirely. It may have coincided with safer cars, (Car safety has improved all through the years, soa cars being tested are inherently safer year on year, by design, if nothing else) it may have contributed to safer cars, but , in itself, the NCT is not a certificate any car is road-worthy.
Take, five years ago, you were testing a five year old BMW 7-series, it would be a 2000 model. The same test now will be testing a 2005 model, inherently a safer car, despite the NCT.
My single argument remains, the NCT, as a measure of the road-worthiness of a car, is useless and the penalty for not having it is disproportionate.
Now, have a good weekend and let's hope everyone lives to Monday morning, eh? 0 -
Yes it would be interesting to look at the same stats from before the NCT was introduced. I'd say the contributory rate would be higher.
<start of rant>
I doubt the NCT made driving any safer. The amount of cars that are on the road with faulty lights, bald tyres and still have an nct is shocking.
People are ignorant driving with one headlight not working, but they still have an nct.
There are laws for this, so one can only assume that the nct is a poor man's tax ... think about it how many accidents are caused by cars over 10 years old which passed their nct, but a year later would not? NONE is the answer to that (I have access to some confidential data on that) ...
There is no nct on new cars, and we all know too well that newish cars (2-4 years old) would fail an nct just as likely as an older car. Yet as it is the 'poor' man that does not driver the less than four year old car, let him pay for ncts, even more so if he can't afford a car newer than ten years.
What also disgusts me is insurance companies (the thieving b*sta*rds they are) add a preimum for older cars. So 1.8 car 1998 is 400 euro more expensive to insure than the same car if it was 2002??? How does that make sense???
<end of rant>0 -
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On the contrary, they prove that vehicle defects account for a minute percentage of crashes.
To prove the NCT has made cars safer is a different kettle of fish entirely. It may have coincided with safer cars, (Car safety has improved all through the years, soa cars being tested are inherently safer year on year, by design, if nothing else) it may have contributed to safer cars, but , in itself, the NCT is not a certificate any car is road-worthy.
Take, five years ago, you were testing a five year old BMW 7-series, it would be a 2000 model. The same test now will be testing a 2005 model, inherently a safer car, despite the NCT.
My single argument remains, the NCT, as a measure of the road-worthiness of a car, is useless and the penalty for not having it is disproportionate.
Now, have a good weekend and let's hope everyone lives to Monday morning, eh?
You are just picking random sentances from my posts and arguing against them. You seem to think that you can make loads of assumptions based on loose theories without any evidence at all and people should believe you. If you want to wind it down to your "single argument" you have to explain what makes the NCT so useless. All you've said is that someone you know changed the wheels of his car for the test. This doesn't make the test useless. It just means the guy you know cheated it.<start of rant>
I doubt the NCT made driving any safer. The amount of cars that are on the road with faulty lights, bald tyres and still have an nct is shocking.
People are ignorant driving with one headlight not working, but they still have an nct.
There are laws for this, so one can only assume that the nct is a poor man's tax ... think about it how many accidents are caused by cars over 10 years old which passed their nct, but a year later would not? NONE is the answer to that (I have access to some confidential data on that) ...
There is no nct on new cars, and we all know too well that newish cars (2-4 years old) would fail an nct just as likely as an older car. Yet as it is the 'poor' man that does not driver the less than four year old car, let him pay for ncts, even more so if he can't afford a car newer than ten years.
What also disgusts me is insurance companies (the thieving b*sta*rds they are) add a preimum for older cars. So 1.8 car 1998 is 400 euro more expensive to insure than the same car if it was 2002??? How does that make sense???
<end of rant>
The NCT can't really keep track of cars between tests. Those vehicles didn't get through the test with those faults. I'm sure your confidential data can prove many things. Unfortunately it's not really an argument.
Of course there is no NCT on new cars. The chances of a car one year old having very bad tracking and completely worn breaks are not very high. The fact is that a four year old car has had four years of wear and tear and if it hasn't been kept serviced it may not be fit to be on the road. The NCT forces people to address problems on their cars that would affect their performance or legality on the roads.
Saying that rich people can get out of it by buying a new car is completely ridiculous. It reminds me of Krusty the Clown "My house is dirty, buy me a new one."
Your whole argument seems to be based on the presumption that cars don't age.0 -
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