Malcolm McLaren, RIP

Tabnabs

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/malcolm-mclaren-dies-aged-64-1939621.html

tbh

aw crap

see ya later, innovator.

Simon Cowell and Louis Walsh must be devastated. Never liked him. He destroyed punk by marketing and merchandising.

May God have mercy.

Dudess

Wow. Not a major fan but there are still some things he did that I admire, there's no doubt he made a significant mark, if sometimes just as a professional controversialist.

Early in llife for him to pass on too...

Heh, I like how he would have tried to implement, if mayor of London, the serving of alcohol in libraries. :pac:

showry

He was a pain in the arse but he was interesting. I always preferred him to Lydon. Duck Rock is still a brilliant album.

fryup

RIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt6Co7EMNCU

mike65

Just saw it, one of the great spoofers and shakers of our time. Nice to see Double Dutch posted, my fav Malcolm track.

Caveat

Didn't like him but the world was better with him in it.

We need controversial people, shameless self publicist, bull****ter, mythmaker and arrogant though he was, he was also bold, creative, shrewd, highly observant and intelligent.

Don't think he ever shafted Lydon to the extent that Lydon would have us believe either.

garbanzo

I am a total fan of his album "Paris" from the 1990's. An amazing soundtrack to/for an amazing city. Check it out. Athmospheric.

I was going to say something disparaging about him but this aint the time, RIP.

rovert

Lets not mention the whole chlid porn thing....

mike65

?

JP Liz V1

RIP

Dudess

rovert wrote: »

Lets not mention the whole chlid porn thing....

Indeed, let's not - because it's a figment of the imagination?

tbh

Dudess wrote: »

Indeed, let's not - because it's a figment of the imagination?

the rest of us were ignoring it....was working well for a while there.

mike65

I risked a call from the cops by googling and could'nt find anything, so I suspect Rovert has confused (somehow!) Malc with Jonathan King. Another pop impresario.

rovert

Dudess wrote: »

Indeed, let's not - because it's a figment of the imagination?

Nope he was a "new wave child photographer"

latenia

His image suffered unfairly due to the dominance of punk zealots in the music press through the 80s and 90s but IMO he was more of a bandwagon creator than jumper with an uncanny eye for spotting trends at their outset. Without him there wouldn't have been the Pistols-that's indisputable. I even prefer ...Swindle... to Never Mind... which is just about the worst heresy imaginable to punks.

I don't know how much he was involved musically with some of his releases but here are 2 of the best songs of the 80s from any genre:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcc3mgXnUzY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trdu7OYRXjY

mike65

rovert wrote: »

Nope he was a "new wave child photographer"

What the hell are you on? Get us some evidence to back your claim or shut up.

Dudess

tbh wrote: »

the rest of us were ignoring it....was working well for a while there.

I was curious. Mike was too.

rovert wrote: »

Nope he was a "new wave child photographer"

I can't find a link to suggest it, but that's child porn?

mike65

Ah I think I might be finally getting it - Bow Wow Wow? Annabella Lwin

rovert

mike65 wrote: »

What the hell are you on? Get us some evidence to back your claim or shut up.

Shut up? Charming

Read Rip It Up and Start Again by Simon Reynolds and stop being so reactionary guys

mike65

Stop being so flipping "coy"

Dudess

But if you post a comment effectively accusing him of being involved in child porn, you can hardly expect people not to be curious. Or "reactionary" as you call it. You've offered little in the way of explanation, that's all that's being asked of you - is that so unreasonable?

rovert

Dudess wrote: »

But if you post a comment effectively accusing him of being involved in child porn, you can hardly expect people not to be curious. Or "reactionary" as you call it. You've offered little in the way of explanation, that's all that's being asked of you - is that so unreasonable?

Arent you the person who called it a figment of my imagination? Sorry but that is reactionary.

Sorry if I thought more people in a thread about Malcom McLaren on a music forum read one of the more famous and influencial music books ever written. :rolleyes:

Dudess

I admit I didn't read it - but seeing as I can't even find a link to this indiscretion of his via Google, it's nothing too scandalous is it?

Spiritoftheseventies

So for anyone who forgot McLaren put together the Pistols. For a small brief period in the seventies they turned everything on its head.
The single sleeve for God Save the Queen was inspired.



It was organized chaos but inspired a generation of musicians. Would hate to think he was remembered for a song as bad as double dutch

tbh

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

So for anyone who forgot McLaren put together the Pistols. For a small brief period in the seventies they turned everything on its head.
The single sleeve for God Save the Queen was inspired.



It was organized chaos but inspired a generation of musicians. Would hate to think he was remembered for a song as bad as double dutch

dude! double dutch is an amazing piece of music - if you were around at the time, I guarantee you'd never heard anything like it before. 3 years before "Graceland" made african rhythms cool to a white middle class audience

Spiritoftheseventies

yeah heard the song. Not bad. But from the manager of a band that produced some of the greatest punk songs of all time it was a bit of a let down

tbh

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

yeah heard the song. Not bad. But from the manager of a band that produced some of the greatest punk songs of all time it was a bit of a let down

I can understand that, if you're more into punk. I remember it blowing my nine-year old mind - first time I'd ever heard that kind of music, really turned me on. And of course he brought hip-hop - as in, the true, five pillars hip-hop, to the UK and Ireland.

rovert

Dudess wrote: »

I admit I didn't read it - but seeing as I can't even find a link to this indiscretion of his via Google, it's nothing too scandalous is it?

Ok then master researcher :rolleyes:

Must be a figment of my imagination that he threatened two 13 year old girls to post nude for a magazine he was launching.

Spiritoftheseventies

Yeah the song was ahead of its time. The only thing I would have against him was how he let the pistols flounder after first album. Got a bit embarrassing in the end.

Dudess

rovert wrote: »

Must be a figment of my imagination that he threatened two 13 year old girls to post nude for a magazine he was launching.

Finally - an answer!

rovert

Dudess wrote: »

Finally - an answer!

Read the book and England's Dreaming while you are at it.

Spiritoftheseventies

rovert wrote: »

Read the book and England's Dreaming while you are at it.

In the meantime this should suffice

He shot to fame and notoriety as the man who guided the Sex Pistols into the pop charts in the 1970s.

But Malcolm McLaren, who has died aged 64, had already become a fixture on the London punk scene.

The performer, impresario and tireless self-publicist first made his name when he opened a shop selling fetish clothing with Vivienne Westwood.

He continued to generate headlines, appearing in reality show Big Brother: Celebrity Hijack in 2008.


McLaren, who also enjoyed a solo music career, was born in London in 1946 and raised by his grandmother in Stoke Newington.

When he was six years old, his mother remarried but McLaren never got on with his stepfather.


He's one of the rare individuals who had a huge impact on the cultural and social life of this nation
Music journalist Jon Savage



He attended St Martin's College Of Art and Goldsmiths College in the capital before setting up clothing shop Let It Rock on King's Road in Chelsea. The shop was later renamed Sex.

McLaren was involved in putting the Sex Pistols together in late 1975 and dressed band in his outfits.

Under his management, the band courted controversy.

In 1977 he was arrested on the Queen's Silver Jubilee after sailing down the Thames on a boat with the band so they could play their anti-establishment song God Save The Queen.

A year later, in 1978, the Sex Pistols set off on a tour of the US. But the band members returned on separate flights, and they split - amid accusations that McLaren had mismanaged them and withheld money.

McLaren's life was rarely anything but colourful. He was once exiled to Paris because of fraud allegations against him in London arising from the antics of the Sex Pistols.

McLaren kept the Sex Pistols' contract rights until one member of the band - John Lydon, who went by the name of Johnny Rotten - took him to court in the 1980s.

Lydon eventually won and gained complete control from McLaren. The pair refused to speak to each other after the band's split.





McLaren and Westwood had a son, Joseph Corre, who became the co-founder of the world-famous lingerie chain, Agent Provocateur.

McLaren managed the New York Dolls shortly before launching the Pistols and later launched Bow Wow Wow, for whom he penned a number of songs.

Following his management career McLaren created his own musical projects, releasing the first of his albums, Duck Rock, in 1983, and having UK hits with singles including Buffalo Gals, Double Dutch and Madame Butterfly.

In 1999, an alternative career seemed to beckon when he announced plans to join the race to become London mayor. The "punk godfather" said he would stand as an independent candidate with a manifesto including legalised brothels and selling alcohol in libraries.

In November 2007, aged 61, Malcolm was due to become a contestant on the ITV reality show I'm a Celebrity... Get Me Out of Here! but pulled out, claiming the show was a "fake".



Music journalist Jon Savage, who wrote England's Dreaming, the award-winning history of the Sex Pistols and punk, said: "Without Malcolm McLaren there would not have been any British punk.

"He's one of the rare individuals who had a huge impact on the cultural and social life of this nation."

Creation Records founder Alan McGee described his late friend as a "visionary".

And despite their differences, former Pistols frontman John Lydon issued a tribute, signed Johnny Rotten, which said: "Above all else [Malcolm] was an entertainer and I will miss him, and so should you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8610482.stm

rovert

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

In the meantime this should suffice

Not really, have you read either?

Spiritoftheseventies

rovert wrote: »

Not really, have you read either?

Well not much to do unless you provide us with some extracts.

rovert

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Well not much to do unless you provide us with some extracts.

Wut?

Spiritoftheseventies

rovert wrote: »

Wut?

You mentioned a magazine article and a book. Do you have some extracts from either?

rovert

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

You mentioned a magazine article and a book. Do you have some extracts from either?

Magazine article?

Yeah Im going to wade through a 600 page book to post extracts on here to prove a point that Im right about.

Spiritoftheseventies

rovert wrote: »

Magazine article?

Yeah Im going to wade through a 600 page book to post extracts on here to prove a point that Im right about.

Well something would be a help. Not disputing what you are saying but using extracts makes your case stronger. No one in media that i have heard or read have brought it up so far.

rovert

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Well something would be a help. Not disputing what you are saying but using extracts makes your case stronger. No one in media that i have heard or read have brought it up so far.

And that proves what exactly? Not even John Lydon is slating him at the moment. Dont be lazy read Rip It Up and Start Again ,it is a seminal book on the subject.

Spiritoftheseventies

rovert wrote: »

Magazine article?

Yeah Im going to wade through a 600 page book to post extracts on here to prove a point that Im right about.

Do you have the book. is there an index at the back. Surely you can source the page that lists the allegations?

rovert

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Do you have the book. is there an index at the back. Surely you can source the page that lists the allegations?

You'll be asking for page scans next no I dont have the book where Im at currently. Stop badgering me it is in Rip It Up and Start Again which has been reprinted numerous times and the claim was never been refuted. Despite claims to contray it has been posted numerous places on the internet too.

EDIT: It is written about in Chapter 16 called Sex Gang Children

Spiritoftheseventies

rovert wrote: »

You'll be asking for page scans next no I dont have the book where Im at currently. Stop badgering me it is in Rip It Up and Start Again which has been reprinted numerous times and the claim was never been refuted. Despite claims to contray it has been posted numerous places on the internet too.

EDIT: It is written about in Chapter 16 called Sex Gang Children

So if its on the internet post it. If its there and you have access to it I dont see the problem. This is a tribute thread to Malcolm McLaren and yet you came in with these statements.
Some of just wanted you to back them up with some printed extracts which is the norm really.

rovert

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

So if its on the internet post it. If its there and you have access to it I dont see the problem. This is a tribute thread to Malcolm McLaren and yet you came in with these statements.
Some of just wanted you to back them up with some printed extracts which is the norm really.

Ive given you the book and the chapter. :rolleyes: Id more forthcoming it what I posted wasnt met with persistant hostility.

tbh

if you both just let it drop, it'd be dropped. I am aware of the irony of taking a thread off topic to complain about off-topicness.

Dudess

It's still to do with Malcolm McLaren...

tbh

it is in it's hole, with respect. It's three people, one of whom is saying '"I know something and I'm not going to tell you" and the other two saying "no you don't, you don't know anything"
you, not so much as the other fella in fairness. I liked what he said about mcclaren and the pistols, and I'm going to enjoy those books that rovert recommended I'd say.personally I'd enjoy the thread more if there was more of that and less of the bickering. maybe that's just me tho.

rovert

The thread would have been a lot more truncated if people didnt jump the gun call other people's who actually read round the subject posts figments of their imagination.

Read the book or not, believe it or not but his apparent attempt to emboil EMI, the BBC and his own associates in a child pornography scandal is in there.

tbh

I think the description of him as the original simon cowell is very apt. Of course there were always the managers in the background pulling the strings since the music industry began, I like the way was so blatent about it, and it's since become something refined and sanitized and commercialised to produce a simon cowell.

Dudess

rovert wrote: »

The thread would have been a lot more truncated if people didnt jump the gun call other people's who actually read round the subject posts figments of their imagination.

It's about something to do with Malcolm McLaren, the subject of this thread - and if you're going to post something in a "I'll get attention by saying something really vague so that everyone will be going wtf and then I'll refuse to elaborate" manner, you got exactly what you wanted, so what's your problem? You hardly wanted people to just ignore it did you? And if you make a huge claim like that with nothing whatsoever to back it up initially, people are bound to think you're talking through your arse, especially when Google yields nothing.

It seems interesting - people asked questions and were met with hostility from you instead of an answer, wtf is the point in that?

You could even have written a short par explaining what you meant - five or six lines even - but no, being evasive and telling people to fuk off and read the book, on a public message-board where people write stuff, explanations and so on, ftw...