How much Musical knowlege is necessary in your field

seannash

Just wondering how much benefit has your personal music experience helped you out with regards working in a recording studio.

is it essential to know how to play an instrument/know the ins and outs of how certain speakers work/room acoustics.

are these considered absolutely essential before you even dream of entering a studio on the bottom rung or are these things you pick up with experience(obviously not being able to play an instrument)

also interested in hearing about hearing.

Is it something that can be trained or are you born with the ability to hear better than other people.
sometimes people talk about being able to hear subtle differences when compairing audio file thats honestly i struggle to tell the difference.

now this could be my listening eviroment but it could also be that i just cant hear the difference

i know from my own experience that my attention to deatail has definitely improved the more i work with music.

sorry for the rant but its been something that ive always wondered

Rockshamrover

Let me chime in on the "hearing differences" bit.

Does it really make that much of a difference to the end result if only a handful of people can spot a tiny variation in sound? Take any classic song of the last few decades. Slightly change the sound on the hi hat. Will that be noticed by 99% of the general public? I don't think so

Most people listen to their music on mp3 anyway, so the subtle difference you may or may not hear in the studio wont effect the end listener.

On playing an instrument. I can see how this would be of benefit when it comes to getting across ideas on how to play certain parts of a song etc.

Not completely necessary though as I'm sure there are lots of people in the biz who can't play anything.

seannash

Rockshamrover wrote: »

Let me chime in on the "hearing differences" bit.

Does it really make that much of a difference to the end result if only a handful of people can spot a tiny variation in sound? Take any classic song of the last few decades. Slightly change the sound on the hi hat. Will that be noticed by 99% of the general public? I don't think so

Most people listen to their music on mp3 anyway, so the subtle difference you may or may not hear in the studio wont effect the end listener.

On playing an instrument. I can see how this would be of benefit when it comes to getting across ideas on how to play certain parts of a song etc.

Not completely necessary though as I'm sure there are lots of people in the biz who can't play anything.

i hear ya but its more the fact that sometimes i cant tell that there has been a change(good or bad) even if im told beforehand.

i know he public wont notice but would other producers.

Rockshamrover

seannash wrote: »

i hear ya but its more the fact that sometimes i cant tell that there has been a change(good or bad) even if im told beforehand.

i know he public wont notice but would other producers.

I guess it only really matters if there are ten producers in a room and nine of them can hear the difference. You being the tenth man.

Again, will that difference impact on the final result?

FlyingCircus

I agree with Rockshamrover 90% of the general public can care less how the tune it's recorded if the song it's good and stuck in your head than it's good.

I will say that playing an instrument it's a plus not a must, in our studio I play guitar bass few piano chords and couple of drums beats ,and my business partner does not play anything but it's still able to record

and work its way perfectly into a session.

I will say that what it really important it's the engineer knowledge of tempo and rhythms as working with music it's mostly working with tempo.

What an good engineer should know are the different instruments frequency range for EQ purposes and good ears for pitch especially for drums and guitar...knowing that a drum kit it's out of tune or a guitar intonation it's not set properly it's priceless.

A bit of electronic and computer knowledge will give you a different boost too.

As I said not important but can make huge different sometimes.

shayleon

just like with any other line of business, the more experience you have, the better you become (until the point of being completely senile - this can reverse the process). I definitely noticed a constant improvement in hearing regarding little abnormalities in the sound and pitch.

MilanPan!c

Part of being a good Engineer or Producer is communication.

Being able to "talk the talk" can be the difference between having a client and not having a client.

Being able to back up the talk, though, is the difference between a happy client and a disgruntled client.

Both strands benefit from knowledge, and a lot of it.

There's no certain "amount of knowledge" you need, but if you can't competently and confidently record something you don't have enough.

Bands are going to assume you're Brian Eno or Butch Vig (e.g.) until you convince them otherwise.

Every engineer I know didn't feel prepared for their first clients... it's normal... just be brave and you'll get there, no matter how much knowledge you have (relative to the greats...)

seannash

Niall - Dahlia wrote: »

In my experience one of the first things that comes up in conversation as you're setting up a session with a band is "Do you play any instruments yourself?" or "Do you play in a band yourself?" Maybe it's mostly for the sake of conversation, but it can't be a coincidence that almost every musician asks me this. I think a musician will respect and trust you more if you play his particular instrument.

If you can answer yes, and can chat about their gear, their setup, your own experiences as a musician, you're showing that you've personal knowlege of the instrument, and the band will probably be more willing to take onboard any suggestions and advice you have. If the answer is no...I just feel a band is going to be a bit weary of trusting you from the offset.

Before starting engineering I played piano and guitar. I had no problem relating to guitarists and the occasional keyboard player. Drums were a completely different matter. I felt a bit lost, I couldn't communicate to the drummer on any kind of technical level. Soon as I could I got a few drum lessons! It helped me so much, one of the best things I did. Now when the drummer is setting up we can talk about hi-hat position, snare choice, what dampening might be needed etc. Not only that, I find it so much easier to listen critically to drums, hear mistakes, edit drums, and at the end of the day it results in a better sound because I know the instrument a bit deeper!

Not saying you can't learn all these things by simply studying the instrument a little (plenty of examples of great engineers/producers who can't play), but I think hands on is the best way to go about it.

In relation to hearing...definitely something that you can be trained to do. When I first started off I was quite worried about all the things I couldn't hear that others were saying they could hear. Over the years these things have revealed themselves. My hearing certainly hasn't got any "better" (frequency wise)! I just know what to listen out for a bit more. I try not to think about all the things I know I still can't hear! Just have to give it time, it will all come to you eventually if you put the time in.

thats a very good point about the band being able to relate to a fellow musician,never thought about that.

good to hear about the hearing too,whenever i hear some people give really detailed feedback im always wondering how they manage to hear all these abnormalities in a mix.

MilanPan!c

seannash wrote: »

thats a very good point about the band being able to relate to a fellow musician,never thought about that.

good to hear about the hearing too,whenever i hear some people give really detailed feedback im always wondering how they manage to hear all these abnormalities in a mix.

One thing I'd say about hearing is that production, like any art, REQUIRES 'covering' other peoples work, at least at the beginning.

And in order to recreate, you need to actually really critically listen to the idea you're trying to replicate.

Most of my listening skills were developed earlier, rather than later, before I even started producing people and engineering.

Just saying, getting used to high-end reproduction is one thing, but picking apart a mix to learn how it works can be done with very cheap gear.

I mean, cmon, Sgt Pepper was recorded on a glorified 4-track through monitors that can probably be beaten for 500e.

Sorry, but I just hate the, "you need tons of money to record decently" argument. So many beginning engineers would benefit from solving the problems that come from having almost no resources.

IMO of course.