Nylon Guitar Players!!

furerer

How you all doing,

I suppose I'm gonna create a stir here...but hey....it's all good discussion.

Do any other "nylon guitar players", ( I use this term loosely as nylon players are not all classical), out there ever wonder why the nylon guitar has not been brought forward to the 21st century?

We have been with the same style for 200yrs...is this why we are very, very, rarely seen as backing for vocalists amongst top groups and solo artists,......and when was the last time you heard nylon guitar in hip-hop, techno, rap, etc, etc, you getting the idea?

Why is there not a "Nylon Guitar" sub-category in "Music".......but there is a "classical" section?.....are the "ngp's" supposed to fit in there?

Why are "ngp's" allways depicted as sitting down, foot on stool, arms and hands set to exacting angles, dressed as a penguin, with a stern look on their face?........ man it's weird!

O.K., I'm writing a bit tongue-in-cheek, but hey! the above is pretty much true. We do not seem to be out there in masses where the top 40 is concerned, it seems we are an elitist group that play for niche crowds.

There is a wealth of talent in ngp land, and it is not being used. I believe it is time to change the way we think about the nylon guitar, and make openings for talented players so they may gain experience in live situations.....after all.......we can't all afford private lessons or music colleges where nylon guitar is taught.

I myself am an ngp, and love it.....but come on.......there is so much more to this guitar than classical;
Mexican, Brazilian, Spanish, Cuban, etc, come to mind......and why is it that they seem to be enjoying playing their music while some of the classical guitar players find it hard to break a smile.

Before you start to reply......if you do of course......do not read my thread as a personal attack, I simply would like to know if any of you might agree on some of my statements.......or perhaps you think I am just another fruit-loop..........but whatever you believe.......HAVE FUN PLAYING THAT NYLON GUITAR!!

JaneHudson

I agree - It's true there is a very stuffy classical player stereotype there. In fact the use of a footstool is compulsory if you are doing the Trinity exams!
(I play classical - on an alhambra 5P I got in Spain a few years back.)

Even within the classical studies there is some amazing Spanish and South American tunes to play though - it's not all Bach.
Also there are some great guitarists out there the likes of Jose Gonzalez or Rodrigo & Gabriela who play non-traditional stuff on nylon strings. Actually I would be interested to hear of some more.

Olympic Jip

There are no classical guitars in rap/RnB because that instrument does not fit into that particular music genre...Is thought that was obvious..ye?

furerer

Hey, some living players,....pretty cool. Good to see some remarks.

If anyone out there knows of a Japanese music programme named "J Melo", and watches it regular, you would have seen a rap artist, japanese, whom had teamed up with a japanese spanish/flamenco player.......apparantly they are doing very well!

R&B was never mentioned by myself......but if someone decided to play a nylon guitar, or try, to r&b,.....good on them!

rcaz

furerer wrote: »

when was the last time you heard nylon guitar in hip-hop, techno, rap, etc, etc, you getting the idea?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBLWDF2nfP8

I play nylon guitar, as well as steel guitar, both electric and acoustic. It's all just guitar! Different strings for different timbres! And if you go electric, the variables are endless. I'm a musician who's interested in sound whose primary instrument is the guitar, as awfully arrogant as that sounds

I play in the NUIM Guitar Ensemble, where we play different works arranged for 26 (I think) nylon guitars. We play a lot of different stuff, from William Byrd to Talking Heads, with Bach, Corelli, Fripp, and a lot more all in between.

(I should probably point out that I'm not classically trained, and mostly self-taught.)

bellg124

I'm not sure I agree that the nylon string guitar hasn't changed at all in two hundred years. Luthiers like Greg Smallman and Patrick Burke have introduced some fairly funky designs. Like the raised neck profile on both Luthiers' guitars and carbon fibre latice designs on Patrick's. As for top forty songs featuring nylon string I know Sting uses some on his tracks and, I know This is nothing to be proud of knowing, Craig David also uses some. Queens of the Stone Age use nylon strings on the album Songs For The Deaf on the track First It Giveth.

If you mean why is there no instrumental nylon string guitar playing in the top forty then I think you need to look at other instruments and you'll see that this isn't exclusive to nylon string guitars. There is no instrumental music featured in the top 40. I think before Rodrigo y Gabriella's album 'Live in Manchester', there hadn't been an instrumental album in the top forty since Mike Olfield's Tubular Bells!

As a Classical guitarist and someone who has studied music in university I can say that there is a ridiculous amount of snobbery and elitism amongst classical guitarists. I guess that might put a lot of people off the music.

furerer

I think some of you out there are not quite getting the drift of my thread.
Firstly, disecting others comments, then trying to prove the comments wrong,....well......get a life! Anyone can do that.
Secondly, we know that nylon guitar has been used in many top pieces of music.....in the top 40. We have not been in a cave all our lives, and yes, I'm sure the top players have carbon fibre and elongated necks.....but hey.....I cannot afford a hand-made guitar.....some of you might be able to.
The reason I put this thread up is to get those of you......who will probably never reach the status of Segovia, or John Williams,........and lets face it.......that's probably most of us, to open your minds as to the possibility of the nylon guitar changing to suit us.
If you have been playing for years, are quite good, and not making a living out of it....why not? Is it because you are not as good as Ceaser Romero? Well I believe that there is a great deal of openings for us all, we do not need a piece of paper to prove that we can play guitar successfully, that is really for those that want to move into teaching.......and lets face it.....how many people out there are offering lessons? Quite a few.
I know someone who has played for over 20 years, takes lessons, doing the "exam".......but cannot play a full piece of music.
Acoustic guitarists can learn the chords, and end up playing for an audience in a couple of years, and start to earn......and yes.....I have mentioned "earning a living" a few times........but if you cannot live on air alone, you have to have an income.....and why not something you love doing?
Constructive comments
Positive thinking
Different ideas
Looking & thinking outside the box....that's what we need....
If you want to be negative, disagree, and just try to wind people up...start your own thread up...it's quite simple.
No offence or disrespect to anyone from me.........keep it sweet you NGP's

bellg124

Ha you're right I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from with this thread. You asked why nylon string guitar isn't featured in top 40 songs - "We do not seem to be out there in masses where the top 40 is concerned, it seems we are an elitist group that play for niche crowds."- If you feel that I am "trying to prove you wrong" by telling you about popular music songs I know of that feature nylon string guitar, then I think you need to take my comments a little bit lighter. My comments weren't an attack on anyone. I wasn't suggesting that you, or anyone else has lived in a cave, (in case of unintentional further offence I should add: It's perfectly fine if you do live in a cave...) I just tried to point out that some top forty songs do feature nylon guitar. As for changes in the style of guitar you said that it's been the same for the last two hundred years, again I wasn't trying to prove you wrong by "dissecting your comments", just pointing out that like most things in the world, the nylon string guitar doesn't operate in a vacuum and is subject to change in design, especially when you consider the design of the strings, which are the main thing that makes the nylon string guitar unique.

Do you mean that perception of the nylon string guitar needs to change? If that's what you mean then I totally agree with you and I didn't pick up on that in your original post. You said yourself at the start of the thread "I suppose I'm gonna create a stir here...but hey....it's all good discussion..."
Apologies if my original comments annoyed or offended you, they weren't intended to.

iSeeStars

(:

judas101

Villagers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCdCuUKdx04

furerer

bellg124.............calm down dude.......I was not "having a go" at you.
The perception thing is somewhat right, but I'm trying to find out if other players are looking, or playing, at an alternative to the traditional ways.
We all hear the "you cant play xyz with a nylon guitar", but you know what.....if you want to you can.
One of the problems with ngp's is that they are a bunch of loners, which means we have no contact with other ngp's, which means we are restricting ourselves, and relying on the top people to show us what to play. Now I am not meaning absolutely everyone in that statement before some finger-happy person starts to type, but I am sure many of you know what I mean.
How many ngp's get out their guitar at the local and play? Probably not many. Is it because you feel your music will not go down well? you're not good enough? you need to be at the grand ol' opera to perform well.
Public houses may not be your first choice, it's not mine, I'll admit.....but what if a few players were there and you all decided to play a piece each, not for money, but for pleasure, would it not be more interesting. What if the players played different styles, electro nylons, standard nylons, etc. showing the diversity available.
At some stage we have to try and move the perception of the nylon guitar away from the norm.........and open other areas to us. I am certainly doing this with my playing, and I love every minute of it.

At some stage you players will have to take a risk......and there's really no risk.....because if you play a piece of music fairly reasonably, listeners will appreciate this.....it's only gobshi_es that will criticise.....and let's face it, no-one listens to gobshi_es.....except themselves and similar people.

By the way, what is it with the links some put up in comments, do you not have an opinion..........because as far as I'm aware.......opinions are like holes...everyone has one.

Chew on that lot!

Norrdeth

How about you keep on doing what you're doing and not complain about attitudes or perceptions of music, actions speak louder than words in some cases. Posting on a forum about the state of Nylon Guitar music won't make people change their styles, but if you show them what can be done ie start a band, etc. it would have a bigger influence.
Put all your energy into playing and listening instead of writing your pet hates here.


*Sorry if this sounds like a petty jibe, I'm tired and haven't got as much writing as I would have liked to get done today.*

gavitron22

i agree about acoustic people getting more of an audience and with (usually) less technical talent, but that's the lack of communication between modern audiences and classical music, that's in all types of art music, not specifically guitar music, i think more than a reevaluation of guitar music is one of Art music in general to be honest!

also the music you listed as the "other" are all quite similar, that's not much more free than the guy dressed as a penguin, in fact the hispanic playing the guitar is the other stereotype of nylon string guitar, you need to think outside the box more, like someone said they played in the nuim guitar orchestra? (i'm getting a weird feeling this forum is almost exclusively nuim students!) they did an arrangement of a jeff buckely piece arranged by a guy from my class? also, in my own compositions (my soundcloud name is the same as my username on this), it ranges from "classical" guitar in azura's star to metal and spanish influenced riffs in momma secco and tom's birthday, and blues and contemporary classical music in the one piece in stuff like akira koshkin or big seep are beautiful, so i think there's a certain aspect of you limiting your own expectations too, not in a bad way!

rcaz

gavitron22 wrote: »

they did an arrangement of a jeff buckely piece arranged by a guy from my class?

I know him!

gavitron22

yeah i'm fairly sure that this forum is inhabited almost exclusively by maynooth music students! :pac:

Norrdeth

Nothin' wrong with that Gav! ;-)

gavitron22

damn ,my cover has been compromised! :eek: