http://www.independent.ie/national-news/graduate-salaries-plummet-to-a-dismal-euro400

alex73

I would have been glad to get 400 euros a week when I left college. I mean a graduate has no mortgage, usually not married, and a job with 400 a week is a good starting point. (double the dole anyway)


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/graduate-salaries-plummet-to-a-dismal-euro400-a-week-2124158.html

billybigunz

In fact, marginally more science graduates were studying for further qualifications than working – 43pc compared with 42.6pc –

That is a shocking figure. These people need a place to emigrate to. THey should probably start pushing 3rd year school students towards learning German.

€400 gross a week is a diabolical wage. I was pulling more than that doing a PhD 3 years back.

dudara

billybigunz wrote: »

€400 gross a week is a diabolical wage. I was pulling more than that doing a PhD 3 years back.

Did you ever think that you were perhaps overpaid while doing your PhD? I received E1,000 per month while doing mine.

Most trainee graduates at the Big 4 are roughly in the region of E22k per annum - which is approx E400 per week. And that kind of pay at Big 4 firms has been common for years.

billybigunz

dudara wrote: »

Did you ever think that you were perhaps overpaid while doing your PhD? I received E1,000 per month while doing mine.

Most trainee graduates at the Big 4 are roughly in the region of E22k per annum - which is approx E400 per week. And that kind of pay at Big 4 firms has been common for years.

No, was about the going rate internationally for the top level of PhD students. I wouldn't do one on 1K a month.

NinjaTruncs

Why do people think Grads are entitled to huge wages? I left college and started on 20K, less than 5 years later my wage has more than doubled, why? because i'm good at my job. College was easy, a few weeks work at the end of each year and you could easily pass your exams, does that mean i'm highly qualified, no, it means i can study the right things at the right time. Grads need to put the work in to get the rewards, not just finish college and expect to be getting top wages.

zootroid

When I left university in 2005, my first job had a salary of 21,500. Most people in my class that found work were paid around the same, in the 20-23k bracket. I think this is a fair wage as you really have little or no experience. I remember a few years ago a friend of mine started her first job in 2007 and started on 28k. I'm not sure whether this was the average or whether hers was just an exception, but it seemed to me that graduates salaries jumped by a huge amount. Now it seems they're back at a more realistic level.

egan007

First job from college with a degree in computers 2001 fetched me 12K

1K per month kept me in all the beer i needed.

artful_codger

alex73 wrote: »

I would have been glad to get 400 euros a week when I left college. I mean a graduate has no mortgage, usually not married, and a job with 400 a week is a good starting point. (double the dole anyway)


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/graduate-salaries-plummet-to-a-dismal-euro400-a-week-2124158.html

and bugger all tax to pay on that.

markpb

dudara wrote: »

Most trainee graduates at the Big 4 are roughly in the region of E22k per annum - which is approx E400 per week. And that kind of pay at Big 4 firms has been common for years.

Accountants can't easily be compared to graduates because their degree does not mean anything. They're only qualified when they've passed their professional exams. Intge meantime, their salaries are competitively lower.

Fwiw it's a little blasé to sat that graduates should be happy with whatever salary they get. While we definitely need to keep costs down, we also need to encourage young people to go to university and get a degree. Lower graduating wages means more will take up a trade r emigrate. There's a limit to how many carpenters and builders one country needs.

ToasterSparks

As an unemployed graduate, I'd be happy to be on 22k a year, or €400 a week. I have no commitments, and I can make do just fine on that amount. I have no illusions that my degree or masters entitles me to anything - I know as much or as little as everybody else.

Starter wages on this level are great - obviously I'd assume that my wages over time would rise in relation to the work I put in. Obviously if the job entails insane hours outside the norm, this is a low wage, but taking the average job, it's an acceptable wage.

alex73

billybigunz wrote: »

€400 gross a week is a diabolical wage. I was pulling more than that doing a PhD 3 years back.

Great for you, I presume your Phd was not in economics.

billybigunz

alex73 wrote: »

Great for you, I presume your Phd was not in economics.

Lower stipends?

avalon68

dudara wrote: »

I received E1,000 per month while doing mine.

+1.
And out of that 1,100 euro per month I managed to pay rent (always in a nice enough place), health insurance, buy a cheap car, car insurance (astronomical to begin with), petrol, eat out once a week, take 2 - 3 trips abroad per year (incl. one to usa every year), head to a few concerts every year, buy food and alcohol, and even save some money.......which is why I find it so difficult to understand when people say they cant survive on the dole, or cant take a small cut in their pay......budgeting skills people!!

Penisland

Working on an undergraduate placement I earned above 400! God id be pissed if get less when I graduate!!

Don’t think I will though! If you look at grad programs you can easily start on 33k plus!!

eclectichoney

Penisland wrote: »

Working on an undergraduate placement I earned above 400! God id be pissed if get less when I graduate!!

Don’t think I will though! If you look at grad programs you can easily start on 33k plus!!

Lol. If you can get a job. Do people not realise that hundreds of people are losing their jobs every single work day in this country and that it is only going to keep getting worse for the next year or two at least?

Penisland

eclectichoney wrote: »

Lol. If you can get a job. Do people not realise that hundreds of people are losing their jobs every single work day in this country and that it is only going to keep getting worse for the next year or two at least?

I’m inclined to agree with you in some ways. I’m doing a masters next year so to improve my chances of getting a job I actually want instead of taking a job out of necessity now.

There will always be jobs for the best graduates even in the current climate. People need to study harder in Ireland! Irish students take the "free" (nobody take me up on this please! :P) education system for granted and the recent study into inflated grades shows colleges are quick to give away handy degrees to the students who go to college as its "free". If Irish student increase our damaged reputation we can begin to fight once more for jobs we want rather than need.

damnyanks

When I left college I was earning 60k a year smug etc.

Joe Schmo

QUOTE: damnyanks

"When I left college I was earning 60k a year smug etc."

That is impressive. Can you say what this job was (title & field if you can)?

Personally, I started in finance @25k, to 32K after 12 months. I saw recently that the type of role I was in is offered by one employer under the WPP scheme (ie dole money for job seekers).

If I had the cop-on at the time I would have targeted a role in European-level finance. Grads at the Euro Investment Bank get 36k(based in Brussels) and I think for some reason don't pay state tax, pay European tax.

billybigunz

damnyanks wrote: »

When I left college I was earning 60k a year smug etc.

I started in 50k after college and there ere 80k jobs going if I wentto London. You'd want your head examined working for 20k.

parker kent

Penisland wrote: »

I’m inclined to agree with you in some ways. I’m doing a masters next year so to improve my chances of getting a job I actually want instead of taking a job out of necessity now.

There will always be jobs for the best graduates even in the current climate. People need to study harder in Ireland! Irish students take the "free" (nobody take me up on this please! :P) education system for granted and the recent study into inflated grades shows colleges are quick to give away handy degrees to the students who go to college as its "free". If Irish student increase our damaged reputation we can begin to fight once more for jobs we want rather than need.

I think next year you will learn the hard way that you are being naive. Even if you study hard, get great grades etc you can still be jobless. Trust me, I have one masters and I am doing another. My degree and first masters all had top results. But I am in a sector with no jobs at the minute. Due to the lack of jobs, more people are staying longer in education. Plenty of those will have studied hard and will get Firsts. But Firsts don't mean employment. It is very, very hard getting jobs you actually want right now.

In September when I graduate (again!) I will take any job, anywhere.

MonkeyBone

parker kent wrote: »

I think next year you will learn the hard way that you are being naive. Even if you study hard, get great grades etc you can still be jobless. Trust me, I have one masters and I am doing another. My degree and first masters all had top results. But I am in a sector with no jobs at the minute. Due to the lack of jobs, more people are staying longer in education. Plenty of those will have studies hard and will get Firsts. But Firsts don't mean employment. It is very, very hard getting jobs you actually want right now.

In September when I graduate (again!) I will take any job, anywhere.

I have to agree with you on this one.

I got top results in all my subjects and when I finished last year I could not get a job in this country to save my life. I went abroad to Manchester though and got a job that payed nearly €700 a week (in a consultancy firm as a business technology analyst) but I had to come back after a bereavement in my family and personal circumstances mean I have to stay. I have been looking for a job for months now in this country and still no luck. Other people I graduated with are abroad and it is pretty much hit and miss for them. Some are working in great jobs while others are simply teaching english as a foreign language. We all have Masters and some have MBAs.

Anyways, I don't mean for this to sound like a sob story. My point is that getting a job in this country is and will be hard to get for the foreseeable future. In previous post it sounded like some people thought that getting €400/week was shocking but no one should scoff at €400 a week particularily if you take into account the experience you will be getting. A good education plus good experience will always equal better pay or better job prospects.

Having said that though, an economy with jobs would also help.

Penisland

parker kent wrote: »

I think next year you will learn the hard way that you are being naive. Even if you study hard, get great grades etc you can still be jobless. Trust me, I have one masters and I am doing another. My degree and first masters all had top results. But I am in a sector with no jobs at the minute. Due to the lack of jobs, more people are staying longer in education. Plenty of those will have studied hard and will get Firsts. But Firsts don't mean employment. It is very, very hard getting jobs you actually want right now.

In September when I graduate (again!) I will take any job, anywhere.

Fair enough Kent, I am not going to challenge your voice of experience in your own situation. But that is your situation.

I have a lot of experience with multi-national companies, various academic awards and I am not going to bore you with the generic traits I have in abundance! I have lived in a minority all my life- I will be in the minority of the employed.

Hey if I am naïve, I’ll learn from it!

billybigunz

Penisland wrote: »

Fair enough Kent, I am not going to challenge your voice of experience in your own situation. But that is your situation.

I have a lot of experience with multi-national companies, various academic awards and I am not going to bore you with the generic traits I have in abundance! I have lived in a minority all my life- I will be in the minority of the employed.

Hey if I am naïve, I’ll learn from it!

Fair play, you have the right attitude. Never settle for something average. There are high paying jobs out there for graduates straight out of college. I'd still say to get out of Ireland as even in the good times it really is a few divisions behind the bigger cities.

Penisland

billybigunz wrote: »

Fair play, you have the right attitude. Never settle for something average. There are high paying jobs out there for graduates straight out of college. I'd still say to get out of Ireland as even in the good times it really is a few divisions behind the bigger cities.

Thanks Billy! I think it is hard for some people to have a positive attitude, having received endless PFOs! But a bad attitude will never get you anywhere! One of my dreams is to work in one of the world’s major business districts so I would not mind moving away!

billybigunz

In 2006/7 just before the credit crunch, Davy were offering Irish graduates a 30K starting wage. Graduate traders in London were starting on about €80K in the big firms at this time.
Now Davy are offering 20K for graduates. Ireland really doesn't have a culture of graduate schemes. Even in the 'good years' the gradIreland book had the same handful of employers.

shoegirl

billybigunz wrote: »

That is a shocking figure. These people need a place to emigrate to. THey should probably start pushing 3rd year school students towards learning German.

€400 gross a week is a diabolical wage. I was pulling more than that doing a PhD 3 years back.

Thats funny because my sister is on a govt of Ireland scholarship doing a PhD and she gets the pricely sum of about 308 a week.

In one place I worked at the height of the boom we hired graduate starters on about 385 a week gross. If there is scope for progression then the starting wage doesn't really matter. The problem would only be if this was to be your real salary for the next 3 or 4 years, which I'm sorry to say I've seen a lot of.

Right now I'm seeing graduates displace a lot of non-qualified candidates for jobs that are not really graduate jobs, so suspect much of this is due to this as well. A bunch of us are being laid of in my place, and basically anybody without a degree isn't get any response on their applications, full stop, we're about 50/50 graduate/non-graduate.

shoegirl

billybigunz wrote: »

In 2006/7 just before the credit crunch, Davy were offering Irish graduates a 30K starting wage. Graduate traders in London were starting on about €80K in the big firms at this time.
Now Davy are offering 20K for graduates. Ireland really doesn't have a culture of graduate schemes. Even in the 'good years' the gradIreland book had the same handful of employers.

Somewhere else which I won't name is only paying graduates 18k.

ferike1

I guess thats my biggest problem with the Grad wages here. Not that they are low at the start but even afterwards they are still much lower with less bonus and improvement. After working for about 3-4 years here in a business/finance/accounting job I'd be making roughly the starter wage of someone doing the same job in the states or the UK, my friend is going to Corporate finance job in the UK and will be starting on £39k (excluding bonus) which is standard, even if London is more expensive than Ireland (I dont think its by that much), I reckon he will still be better off financially than someone here. It's twice the Davy pay and something tells me that in three years time Davy will still not be on/near parity with that job.

Yes we understand its a recession etc etc. but even then its still much less, my advice is leave the country and 'have a good time' as Mary Coughlan so eloquently put it.

parker kent

Penisland wrote: »

Fair enough Kent, I am not going to challenge your voice of experience in your own situation. But that is your situation.

I have a lot of experience with multi-national companies, various academic awards and I am not going to bore you with the generic traits I have in abundance! I have lived in a minority all my life- I will be in the minority of the employed.

Hey if I am naïve, I’ll learn from it!

Just to note that I too have worked for multi-national companies, very big players in their relevant markets. Whilst it is great to have a positive attitude, it is another thing to have a delusional attitude. Be positive of course, but try to be realistic.

My original point referred to the poor opportunities out there to get your dream job straight out of college. Yes you may get employment, but it is very hard to get the job you may have assumed you would get when choosing your course. People have to be creative and enterprising to do well now. This can vary from sector-to-sector, hence my personal experience being particularly poor. There are NO graduates being employed this year in my area. Regardless of what "generic traits" I may have, I cannot force people to emply me when, for a plethora of reasons, they are taking no new employees.

I am not trying to be a doom-monger, that is a trait I deplore. I am not saying that this is the end of the world and that nobody, nowhere will find a job. It is just that some people will have to work in areas they may not have previously experienced. Others will have to volunteer, do FAS work placements etc.

Perhaps next years graduates will benefit from a changed economic environment. Hopefully they will.

witnessmenow

I'm a RCG (may 09) from electronic and computer engineering from NUIG

I took a started a job in January for similar wages as described in the article, and I was very happy to take it! Try not working for 9 months (or even worse working your arse off for a family business for no wages) and see how big of a factor money is in your decision then.

GavMan

I was a grad in 08 from Computer Science.

I got a job paying 29K, and with OT, I was earning about 36K.

I was made redundant in Jan and I can honestly say I would not get out bed for 400 per week.

I worked my balls off for my degree and I know I am worth my 30K+ per annum and I will go anywhere I need to, to get it.

I have no qualms about that and anyone who works for that, is worse. There's still a lot of companies turning big profits who are merely taking advantage of people.

**** that i say

ferike1

GavMan wrote: »

I was a grad in 08 from Computer Science.

I got a job paying 29K, and with OT, I was earning about 36K.

I was made redundant in Jan and I can honestly say I would not get out bed for 400 per week.

I worked my balls off for my degree and I know I am worth my 30K+ per annum and I will go anywhere I need to, to get it.

I have no qualms about that and anyone who works for that, is worse. There's still a lot of companies turning big profits who are merely taking advantage of people.

**** that i say

I like your attitude! Unfortunately there are those who will settle, either out of fear or necessity, so the companies will get their labour one way or another. It's the same case with the Big Four, audits still need to be done but they let go of all their qualified accountants to save costs, but they are still making loads and getting the trainees to do the work without overtime. Smart idea if you are the partners, less so if you are the one being exploited.

Celtise

The rate with the Big 4 in Ireland has dropped but hasn't every industry? Last year, I was on a six month contract and I was paid €380-400 plus a tiny bit of overtime when my contract was up (of less than a weeks wages in total for the entire contract over time, though I did take c.2 extra personal days).

Graduates were earning more than me, enough that they were scandalised when they found out what pitiful amount they were giving me. For such a contract, I found it manageable on that amount (especially being a resourceful student still) but any longer a contract I would have had difficulties as the cost of living/rent/expenses were barely covered by this amount in Dublin (though I could definitely do it for cheaper in any part of Munster or Galway).

Cuddlesworth

ferike1 wrote: »

It's the same case with the Big Four, audits still need to be done but they let go of all their qualified accountants to save costs, but they are still making loads and getting the trainees to do the work without overtime. Smart idea if you are the partners, less so if you are the one being exploited.

Yeah its true you get paid a pittance as a trainee inside the big four but its not a fair comparision. The 3-4 months a year paid study leave while they are still attaining their qualifications, plus one months holidays and huge budget(I've seen it) for training is impressive. At least where I work.

And they are no longer getting paid overtime. Its all time in Leui and for in the next year I wouldn't be surprised if a few trainees in my place decide to take a paid six month vacation.

dan_d

GavMan wrote: »

I was a grad in 08 from Computer Science.

I got a job paying 29K, and with OT, I was earning about 36K.

I was made redundant in Jan and I can honestly say I would not get out bed for 400 per week.

I worked my balls off for my degree and I know I am worth my 30K+ per annum and I will go anywhere I need to, to get it.

I have no qualms about that and anyone who works for that, is worse. There's still a lot of companies turning big profits who are merely taking advantage of people.

**** that i say

Now I graduated from civil engineering in 05 and have been working hard for the last 5 years, earning up to 40k. It dropped in Jan to 38k. I am facing redundancy, as are my colleagues...personally 28-30k a year would suit me just fine.
So if you won't get out of bed for less than 30k with a year and a half experience, and I'll happily take 28-30k with 5 years experience, what does that say about both of us, and the wider problem we have here? I worked hard for my degree too....but I can see while we have problems, there are jobs out there. We need to get over ourselves and take them.Your degree gives you entry in the door. It does not give you an entitlement to anything, least of all an inflated wage.
(I should also add that I have a mortgage...I'm assuming you don't which further increases my irritation at your sense of entitlement)

MysticalRain

I think the point people are missing here is that however much you think you are personally worth to an employer, there are thousands of other people out there at the moment who would happily do your job for far less than what you're being paid.

Clearpreso

MysticalRain wrote: »

I think the point people are missing here is that however much you think you are personally worth to an employer, there are thousands of other people out there at the moment who would happily do your job for far less than what you're being paid.

Very on the money there. It is all about who has the power here, there are few jobs and absurd levels of people seeking those jobs.
If the dole queue seems like a more appealing option to people than swallowing ones pride... then fair enough, each to his own.

Alternatively if anyone is so sure that their skills and abilities are better than everyone else why not try setting up a business yourself and try making the big bucks?

pow wow

MysticalRain wrote: »

I think the point people are missing here is that however much you think you are personally worth to an employer, there are thousands of other people out there at the moment who would happily do your job for far less than what you're being paid.

....and you'll be up against most of them at interview. We had an Assistant Finance Officer job (glorified accounts clerking really, no management) going with my old employer and redundant Finance Directors were applying for it.

It's the wrong time for everyone to be jobhunting right now, fresh graduates and more experienced workers alike. The sense of entitlement some graduates have (I recently graduated myself before the flaming starts) will waiver quickly once reality sets in.

dlofnep

It's really depressing to see this. I've been working in a call centre for the past 7 years, and can clear nearly 500 a week in here. I went to college to give me a chance to get out of here. I'm going on to do my masters - but I may be forced to emmigrate.

I don't really have a problem earning the same wage at the beginning, gradually moving up. But it's a sad state of affairs to have to cut your wages by 100 a week AFTER you graduate.

I'm seriously considering moving to Canada on a skilled worker visa after my masters.

Firetrap

I think there's an agenda to drive all wages down here. I would love to know what percentage of the workforce has experienced a pay cut in the last year or so. The €400 a week figure doesn't surprise me. As well as the moves to reduce wages, the massive numbers of unemployed people out there means that it's an employer's market and they can name their price.

mrgardener

dlofnep wrote: »

It's really depressing to see this. I've been working in a call centre for the past 7 years, and can clear nearly 500 a week in here. I went to college to give me a chance to get out of here. I'm going on to do my masters - but I may be forced to emmigrate.

I don't really have a problem earning the same wage at the beginning, gradually moving up. But it's a sad state of affairs to have to cut your wages by 100 a week AFTER you graduate.

I'm seriously considering moving to Canada on a skilled worker visa after my masters.

But did you start your present job on 500 pw?
Remember, a degree/masters gives you the right to apply for certain roles, it doesn't give you the right for inflated wages. Good old fashioned hard work does that.

dlofnep

mrgardener wrote: »

But did you start your present job on 500 pw?

I didn't. But to be honest, entry level pay is above 400 a week.

mrgardener wrote: »

Remember, a degree/masters gives you the right to apply for certain roles, it doesn't give you the right for inflated wages. Good old fashioned hard work does that.

Who said I was asking for inflated wages?

COYW

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Why do people think Grads are entitled to huge wages? I left college and started on 20K, less than 5 years later my wage has more than doubled

Spot on. I did my degree and masters in 2 of the big 5. I am out working less that 5 years and my salary has gone from less than €20K to 250% of that. I didnt earn €400 a week when I started and would have been very happy with that kind of money and that was during the boom.

Also, I think any current grad who gets a job in their field in Ireland with €400 a week should consider themselves very happy. Most of the peers wont get that.

qwytre

It shouldn't mattter to you how much you earn as a graduate in your first job just as long as you have enough to get by. What is important is you start off in the right career and start gaining good experience and keep up the training. Get into a good company that will continue to train you and give you opportunities to work on good projects, that is worth way more to you than an extra 100 euro a week.

I started off on 300 pounds a week so 400 euro a week sounds about the same given that it was about 9 years ago. And I was fully prepared to work for nothing just to get the right experience (thankfully the company did pay me something, it was in the middle of the dot.com crash)

Spend the first 12-36 months learning as much as you can and then you can start moving up the salary scale.

BlackWizard

This 400 euro a week, is it gross or net?

Lostindub

I think to a large extent this is very much dependent on what you have studied.

I did a 2 year cert in Science and started out on 26K in 2006 and with promotion etc this had raised to nearly 36K by 2008. However I had reached a level and could not go any further without a degree so I went back to college for a further 2 years and graduated in may 09.

I, like everyone applied for (literally) hundreds of jobs and when I finally got one, well a 6 month contract - That seen my yearly plummet from 36K to 21K! I'm now on second contract job in an absolute hell hole for the princely sum of 24K (salary) and have to put in between 45-50 hours a week for that.

I have a mate doing a work placement as a compulsory part of course and she will be paid 25k for her placement - it would seem business courses pay that bit better!

I have no desire to move country - but I have to say, if i'm gonna work for peanuts - Id rather have them in the sun! Contract jobs are of little use to anyone here if I want to settle here - I cant even get a decent car loan as I'm only on contract - mortgage, I'd be flung from the bank!

Just to clarify, I am grateful I'm working - but I studied very hard for 4 years, worked my a*se of for nearly 3 and I get paid less then a mate who works in a supermarket, who has a permanent, secure job.

Time to ditch science me thinks

billybigunz

Average third level qualifications don't pay. If you are **** hot and have gone straight from school into a good course, finished with a first maybe in the top of your class then you will do well.

Every dick in this country has a 2.1 or 2.2 in some run of the mill biology or arts degree. The joys of free third level.

MysticalRain

Lostindub wrote: »

I think to a large extent this is very much dependent on what you have studied.

I did a 2 year cert in Science and started out on 26K in 2006 and with promotion etc this had raised to nearly 36K by 2008. However I had reached a level and could not go any further without a degree so I went back to college for a further 2 years and graduated in may 09.

I, like everyone applied for (literally) hundreds of jobs and when I finally got one, well a 6 month contract - That seen my yearly plummet from 36K to 21K! I'm now on second contract job in an absolute hell hole for the princely sum of 24K (salary) and have to put in between 45-50 hours a week for that.

I have a mate doing a work placement as a compulsory part of course and she will be paid 25k for her placement - it would seem business courses pay that bit better!

I have no desire to move country - but I have to say, if i'm gonna work for peanuts - Id rather have them in the sun! Contract jobs are of little use to anyone here if I want to settle here - I cant even get a decent car loan as I'm only on contract - mortgage, I'd be flung from the bank!

Just to clarify, I am grateful I'm working - but I studied very hard for 4 years, worked my a*se of for nearly 3 and I get paid less then a mate who works in a supermarket, who has a permanent, secure job.

Time to ditch science me thinks

I don't blame you for thinking that. And people wonder why we don't have a Knowledge Economy?

paddylonglegs

+1 for the 400 pw earner!yay lets start a facebook page :rolleyes:

It really goes to show the power of the employer at the moment. with 4 years exp behind me and after taking on a project management role I'v started on a probationary rate of 400 net. It was put to me when I asked for a higher wage, "look i'v had 100s of cvs for this job,its what I'm offering". What can I say to this? This is my first managerial role but I'm really putting my heart and soul into it - arrived into work yesterday at 7 am to oversee a job being ready for 9, then stayed back til 7 in the evening to get the schedule ready for the week. sorry i'm not giving you the sob story here but I feel i'm going above and beyond for this measly wage (and its difficult to get him to pay me for this overtime). In these times i'm not able to tell him to stick his job.

In 2006, after 1.5 years exp I was on 28k, its now plummeted and I have way more responsibility. Understandably wages have come down considerably and I understand that, but there is no way cost of living has come down in comparison. At the end of the day its our skills that are getting devalued and its an employers market.