OOPs - 45% of teachers dont understand what volunteer work means. What an example!!

CDfm

I am involved in voluntary work and I dont get any recognition or pay for it. Its about giving something back to the community or helping out the world in a quiet way.

My g/f is involved in something and it takes a few hours a week. When I met her -it said she had character and values.

Lots of my friends are too -one a plumber trains juvenile GAA players and is very active. So lots of people do things in a quiet way and dont moan or whinge about it be do it because we want too.

Another did huge internationally recognised work for tsunami victims in Srl Lanka which was voluntary and unpaid.

When I see Teachers whingeing about their volunteerism and how they should be applauded I ask are these modern values.[/I]

Friday April 02 2010

SECONDARY teachers only spend half their working week in the classroom, a new survey has found.
Full-time teachers say they work an average 43 to 46 hours per week -- double what they are required to spend teaching.
But the survey also found that -- while the maximum number of class contact hours for a teacher is 22 per week -- teachers are doing slightly more than 19 hours a week in the classroom. The survey found their workload had increased over the past five to 10 years, mainly because of more paperwork and poor discipline.
The survey was carried out for the Teachers Union of Ireland (TUI) by a market research company, Behaviour and Attitudes, among teachers in VEC colleges and community and comprehensive schools, and included 12 in-depth interviews.
Key findings show that:
lEighty-one per cent of teachers say that discipline problems now take up considerable time.

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• Forty-eight per cent of teachers under the age of 35 and 45pc between 35 and 44 are involved in extra-curricular sports activities.

Outside of teaching, work such as preparing lessons, administrative duties, correcting students' work and meeting students individually typically accounts for 15 hours per week.
An average week also includes time spent planning with colleagues, organising extra-curricular activities, supporting students with special needs and students of minority groups, staff meetings and meeting parents. The findings endorse a spirit of volunteerism among teachers, with 35pc involved in sports and many more involved in other areas such as drama and debating.
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Societal
The discipline problem is attributed to a range of societal factors, from lack of parental interest to abuse of alcohol by students and, as a result, some teachers spend extra hours coaching more willing students.
Educators are also concerned that their role is becoming excessively administrative, due to increasing legal and reporting demands and an absence of the necessary administrative, technical and pastoral resources.
Greater integration of students with special needs has led to a wider range of abilities in the classroom -- an average 11 special-needs students per class in TUI schools -- leading to greater demands on teachers' time.
"The role of a teacher nowadays has become a complex one, especially compared to five to 10 years ago," the research team concludes. "The range and nature of teacher duties appear to have greatly expanded. In addition, the nature of society and indeed children has also changed.

- Katherine Donnelly
Irish Independent

Now I dont see how being interested in your community and society and being involved should bring about special merit.

I get involved in helping students in a professional body I am a member of prepare projects etc and tutors give my name out. No money changes hands and I hardly would show up at institute meetings or want to go on the regional council-even when asked.

My mother was involved in Conragh na Gaelige not because she was a teacher but because she was an irish freak and even counts in irish.

So are they to be applauded?

What value do we put on selfless community work and the scout and are the teachers setting a bad example to our society and young people.

I thought of puting this in humanities or politics but its more mainstream then that cos ordinary people perform selfless acts all the time -why should teachers get all prima donna about it.

metrovelvet

Teaching is a profession. It is not volunteer work nor should we expect it to be. Education is not a charity. It is the only thing you can take to the grave.

Teachers are professionals who worked and studied hard to educate the population. They should be applauded especially when their salaries stink.

sam34

i wonder does it refer to extra curricular sports activities just related to teh school eg school basketball team, school hockey team, or whatever, as opposed to local/community teams?

if it were the former, and they were expected to participate just cause they were school staff, then i can see why they'd be peeved

if it were the latter, that's entirly optional and cannot be perceived as payable, imo.

Dr Galen

i'm not sure this is a topic really suited to tGC. I'm not really seeing the relevance to the forum ethos/mission.

I think humanities might be a better home tbh.

CDfm

I considered Humanities but this is an ordinary life thing. Plenty of ordinary people go about their daily lives involved in community activities sports, charities or whatever.

Its like guys getting involved in training football teams or as scout leaders or whatever and its not a moral or ethical discussion. Like if I get a call like I did the other night saying can I see you about X relating to a charity I was involved in and give a few hours.

Lots of people do that unpaid etc -thats what volunteers do.So it really should be here cos its ordinary people and volunteering.

minidazzler

It's the union complaining here, not teachers TBH.

When I was in School there were alot of teachers involved in Extra-curriculars which they weren't paid for.

Every year my Irish teacher tried to start badminton teams, every year it just fell by the wayside, but still she did it.

There were I don't know how many teachers coaching Soccer, Football and Hurling.

There were teachers who actively tried to get people to do Young Scientists, then travelled with them.

Not to mention student council, and such.

I would bet that 75% of the teachers had an extra curricular maybe more.

One teacher who didn't was my Maths teacher, but he spent upwards of 60 hours a week working, preparing lesson plans that suited EVERY single student as individuals and as a group.

My point is, teachers put alot of time and effort in out of their own pocket. They don't complain. The people complaining here are the union.

The extra curriculars may not be traditional volunteer work, but that is neither here nor there, without the teachers who did it year in year out unpaid, there would never be any of this stuff.

Then there are teachers who do stuff outside of school too.

CDfm

Teachers get involved in lots of activities they are interested in. Some of these they do as hobbies others for career progression and others to ensure the survival of their schools. No students enrolling -no jobs for teachers.

But otherwise its part of their immediate community and if you have a GAA guy in a school who is passionate he will do it as part of his hobby and the sport he loves. Others will do it for social reasons to meet their teacher buddies.

I am not knocking it lots of volunteering has a social element and its not all drudgery.People do it cos they get a kick out of it.

In his LC year my son played bass in the school musical and not specifically cos he wanted to but his band went in because they gave it a bit of bottle. Joseph and his Technicular Dreamcoat competed with a rock band. He also was involved in helping a guy read and still helpos the guy with college essays.

I would hope he carries these values and activities as it shows character and values other than for his own benefit.,

@minidazzler the Union represents the Teachers and if they dont like how they are represented they should say.

I know a guard involved in a mental health charity who is routinely called in by his colleagues where there is a mental health issue arrest. Should he get paid for his volunteering even if there is a crossover?

There is lots of stuff that wouldnt get done without volunteers who go about life unpaid like adult literacy volunteers and the like.

The rural postman that looks in on the old woman etc. Thats community that is.

The guy who runs the youth club or starts up a martial arts club. Its not all meals and wheels.The old woman who does the flowers in the church -another volunteer.

iptba

metrovelvet wrote: »

They should be applauded especially when their salaries stink.

I think it's debatable that their salaries stink when you factor in the long holidays especially of secondary school teachers.

CDfm

iptba wrote: »

I think it's debatable that their salaries stink when you factor in the long holidays especially of secondary school teachers.

Calling community work unpaid overtime is bs -lots of people do it. Its normal and the reason people do it is they like other people and want to make a difference.

I didnt mean for this to be a debate about salaries . On the factual side of it Irish teachers starting salaries are close to 40k which is higher then German teachers earn. Teachers at top scale earn 70k with head teachers up to 100,000 k. (see the links below)

European run-down of teacher training and starting salaries ~ Cafebabel

http://www.independent.ie/education/...h-1511972.html

The average industrial wage in 2009 was 32,000 so factually metrovelvet is incorrect and teachers are not poorly paid.

So my reason for starting the thread was to say its good citizenship what teachers do but they are not the only people that contribute to their communities lots of people do.

Rant over.But I would be interested in hearing peoples own attitudes and experience with this.

Dr Galen

I'm still not seeing the relevance to tGC. I thought I'd let it roll for a while though just to see.

OP I can move this to humanties or politics. Just post up where you would like me to put it.

CDfm

I had seen this as a bit more mainstream than humanities tbh.

The article refered to teachers and a statement issued the attitude behind which I find weird-but it framed the issue on altruistic.

Where I saw it fitting in was where guys see themselves in their community as guys fitting in in society. So guys on volunteerism.

What I wanted to avoid in it was any type of discussion that brought gender into it to frame the post along gender lines (and which I could have done)but have it as more an everyman thing where a discussion is available to an ordinary guy in a way that it wouldnt be if stuck in humanities.

Thats what influenced me to post here and to provoke people who may not otherwise discuss such a topic.I could also have added barriers to volunteerism for guys but thats a totally different issue.

jobless

as said above..its the teachers union pointing this out...not the teachers wingeing as you put it.... ive never met a teacher who moans about what they do outside of school... they are not made do anything...

to me your post stinks of you wanting to be recognised for your volunteer work....

CDfm

jobless wrote: »

to me your post stinks of you wanting to be recognised for your volunteer work....

I didnt mean to give that impression because I dont and have had the opportunity to join national councils etc and havent done.

I think it makes me a more rounded better person & I have made friends with great people thru it.Cant see why the teachers moan about it. its voluntary.

And I dont think its wrong if people get recognised for their volunteer work or if a school teacher gets competitive with another school over football competition wins or the best debate team or whatever.

there was a woman from my home town -self appointed swimming pool building activist collected lots of money for a swimming pool that didnt get built and kept the money....tsk tsk

jobless

CDfm wrote: »

I think it makes me a more rounded better person & I have made friends with great people thru it.Cant see why the teachers moan about it. its voluntary.

where did they moan about it?.... read the article again... it wasnt a moan... they were merely pointing out that a lot of teachers are involved in extra curricular ativities.... and again how many teachers do you here moaning about their voluntary work?..it wouldnt make sense for them to do it if they didnt want to..they are not forced.

i really dont see the argument here

CDfm

I am not arguing.

The union is implying that extra curricullar stuff over their 22 classroom hours is benevolent. Lots of it is part of their job.The counter argument is that they cant do their jobs in the alloted time.

What I am saying is that some activities like sports etc people do cos they are hobbies. Lots of people do them. When a guy trains a team its normally because he is either a sports teacher or a sports fan.I have a friend who trains two teams because he is a GAA head - loves it. Its his thing. He is a plumber and not a teacher.

I am questioning the value system that got put out there about helping out in your community -lots of people do it and its being a good citizen. People do it cos they want to. Putting a spin on it that society is more complex is yada yada yada.

Lots of people are out there every day like the Tidy Towns people small shopkeepers, pub owners and residents associations making their world a better place.

Voluntary and giving back to the community is good.

Ollchailin

Yeah I don't get this either- I don't understand the OP's point (I'm not a maths teacher but I dunno where this 45% thing is coming from... and I dunno where it says teachers are looking for special merit) and I also don't understand why it's in this forum...

But anyway, my tuppence worth:

I'm a teacher, and I'm in charge of Irish debating in my school. I'm not looking for extra credit for it, I do it cos I enjoy it, I feel it benefits my students and I was deeply involved in debating when I was in school so I find it's a nice way for me to stay involved in some capacity.

BUT, it's not part of my job, and it takes up so much time that I would completely understand why some teachers may not want to do it. There have been many nights that between doing work for the debates and trying to fit in correcting copies/tests, I've been up til about 2 am and up at 7 for work again the next day. I'm not looking for special praise for it (although a show of appreciation goes a long way, especially from the students).

I will say this though: It is getting harder and harder to have the will to volunteer your time to students whose behaviour leaves a lot to be desired. The amount of students over my 6 years of teaching who have come in hungover, stinking of cigarettes, and probably after taking drugs, is frightening. As a female teacher also, there are a number of students I would not be comfortable with on my own in a classroom. For example, when doing mock Irish oral exams after school hours- this is not compulsory but I do it anyway, often to reach 8pm at night and think "why the hell am I doing this for this shower of uncaring, unappreciative yolks?". It can get disheartening, and so in some small way, I can see why certain teachers doing trojan work in very difficult circumstances, may feel they deserve special mention.

Dr Galen

this isn't even a humanities thread now tbh. I've also had a look around and don't think it really "fits" in the teaching and lecturing forum either. For that reason, I think its a bit of an orphan thread really. Unless someone has a better idea, due to it not being a topic for tGC I'm locking it.

Cheers

MM