Is the financial Regulator over re-acting?

RichieO

Is the financial Regulator over re-acting regarding putting administrators into Quinn Insurance, the boss obviously thinks so... I can't understand why, when they had evidence of financial irregularities at Anglo Irish they sat on it for months, seems they're now doing too much too soon as apposed to too little too late...

efb

Sure Seanie thought that last lad was harsh. No, I'd say, Quinn really pulling the heartstrings with his ads the last while.

Ebonhoof

Quinn has to say they are being harsh, the alternative is everyone thinking something is wrong and cancelling all the policies, hence killing the company.

Reputation is everything for insurance companies. Even if something is wrong they would say nothing is wrong.

FlutterinBantam

In a word-NO

Mad_Max

Cant believe this is even a question. There'd be a queue around the corner to get at the last one for not doing anything and the second the new one does his job we say he's over-reacting.

Only in Ireland.

MagicSean

Mad_Max wrote: »

Cant believe this is even a question. There'd be a queue around the corner to get at the last one for not doing anything and the second the new one does his job we say he's over-reacting.

Only in Ireland.

But is it not going from one extreme to the other?

Mad_Max

Not if the company broke the rules its supposed to adhere to, no.

If no rules were broken then m.....no wait, a Judge wouldn't have approved the request if they done no wrong.

We're easily won over with a sob story in this country.

paddyland

The thing I cannot understand, is WHY did RTE give Quinn such a tearjerking platform on the national news broadcast to plead his woes unquestioned and unopposed?

The regulator is not moving in there for fun, there are bloody great questions to be asked about how that man runs fast and loose with ethics and regulation. His cohorts are the very people who have run off to Cape Cod and Malaga to escape the mess they created.

It was a very one sided piece of broadcasting by RTE. Where was the debate? It was almost like another Bertie tearyfest.

dan_d

NO!!!!!
There is no such thing as over reacting anymore since the numbers we were given on Tuesday for the banks debts....and while we watch the main players in all this skip the country.
These people have proven beyond a doubt that they cannot be trusted at all. The minute Anglo is mentioned, alarm bells should go off about Quinn. If Quinn has done nothing wrong, then he has nothing to fear. Perish the thought that he might have to obey a few regulations to carry out his business. His reaction, I would think, gives a good indication of exactly how far outside regulation he has obviously been conducting business. If he was in any other country, he'd be obeying rules with no question....because the penalties are severe.
I'd imagine RTE gave Quinn a platform because he's the main sponsor for the Late Late??? He's probably doing deals with them aswell.

wildefalcon

AS I understand it, the Regulator is not the same person who oversaw the collapse of the banking sector.

The new Regulator has acted to ensure the customers will get something for their money in the event of an increase in claims.

He was concerned that there wasn't enough money in the Quinn Insurance bank to pay out if trends continued.

As the owner of Quinn Insurance owes 2.5 billion to Anglo Irish Bank, this is probably a preventative measure, just in case there was a temptation to raid the corporate money bank.

Which is quite wise. I still remember PMPA. Which we are still paying for when we pay the 1% insurance levy.

So, I think he acted correctly.

I am, however, a bit concerned that this is a public appeasement excersize, to reassure us that they are "doing something".

WildeFalcon

bamboozle

wildefalcon wrote: »

AS I understand it, the Regulator is not the same person who oversaw the collapse of the banking sector.

The new Regulator has acted to ensure the customers will get something for their money in the event of an increase in claims.

He was concerned that there wasn't enough money in the Quinn Insurance bank to pay out if trends continued.

As the owner of Quinn Insurance owes 2.5 billion to Anglo Irish Bank, this is probably a preventative measure, just in case there was a temptation to raid the corporate money bank.

Which is quite wise. I still remember PMPA. Which we are still paying for when we pay the 1% insurance levy.

So, I think he acted correctly.

I am, however, a bit concerned that this is a public appeasement excersize, to reassure us that they are "doing something".

WildeFalcon

dam right he isnt the last clown rode off into the sunset with a 600k plus retirement package after several years asleep at the wheel (when he wasnt being wined and dined by the banks that is!)

Our country needs to urgently ragain some internationalrespect as a state with a well managed and regulated banking and financial market. Companies licensed by the Financial Regulator need to realise that they must comply with state regulations.

Neary was either turning a blind eye on his watch or he was purely incompetent at his job, we need to make sure the incumbent is wide away and on top of his game.

ei.sdraob

hes not overreacting,
from what was explained in prime-time,
seems the law/regulation regarding the amount of reserves/cushion and insurance company must have has been breached

this would be akin to a bank not having the required levels of reserves

zootroid

Is he over-reacting? No. A high court judge agreed with him as well.

I've lost a lot of respect for Sean Quinn recently, from his close ties to Anglo to this. He has only got himself to blame.

And the tactics he's now at, blaming the regulator, writing to the cabinet to get them to over-rule the regulator, claiming so many jobs are at risk because of the actions of the regulator, all of this is not on. It makes him come across as a bully, someone who feels he should get his own way all the time, and not have to obey the rules.

k_mac

k_mac wrote: »

But is it not going from one extreme to the other?

As in turning a blind eye or doing his job, I'd rather he did his job!

bamboozle

if only the former financial regulator on one of the 50 plus occasions his office was notified of issues with Anglo Irish Bank something had actually been done we would not be seeing NAMA.
Quinn like all companies regulated by the Financial Regulator need to adhere to the relevent regulations and forget about calling up their buddies in the Dail whinging.

this country needs to be taken seriously, this action by the financial regulator is a first step in this regard.

Fat_Fingers

wildefalcon wrote: »

As the owner of Quinn Insurance owes 2.5 billion to Anglo Irish Bank, this is probably a preventative measure, just in case there was a temptation to raid the corporate money bank.

Which is quite wise. I still remember PMPA. Which we are still paying for when we pay the 1% insurance levy.

Actually as far as i remember insurance levy was 2% until last buget when it went up to 3%.

The fact is Quinn Insurance had breached insurance regulations.
This is not the first time , Quinn Insurance had breached insurance regulations in 2008 and was fined €3.2m.

Quinn has now taken position "do you know who i am?!?" and tried to bully Financial Regulator by writing to the cabinet to get the regulator over-ruled.

Interesting how "quiet ,private and decent" man Quinn is now on all airwaves, giving RTE interviews , portraying himself as some sort of victim. Yet he refuses point blank to make a statement on 1 billion loss in Ango ; his current 2.5 billion loan from Ango and the fact the he only 3 months ago gave himself and his family 200 million from Quinn Insurance while at the same time company was investigated by Regulator for basically been out of funds.

It must be a big shock to Sean Quinn to see Financial Regulator actually doing his job and protecting taxpayer.

flutered

the last regulator came down hard on two small companys that i know of, a credit union and an small time insurance broker, i am not saying the new guy is wrong, but will he be even handed, with all the publicity over anglo any one that even seemed to be in trouble was going to be hit hard at the moment,
according to quinn his bankers and financiers asked for a reprive, also he claimed to have a million in hard cash, i am sure that next month we will know who was correct.

Ddad

no no no no no.

I was listening to Radio 1 this morning and a senator from Cavan comes on with the Quinn is a decent man and has impeccable ethics and was beyond reproach. Cast back three years and if you had made any allegation about Seanie Fitz you'd have been labelled a charlatan and Ahern would have been advising you to top yourself for talking down the economy, Let us not forget that MR Quinn was heavily involved in the propping up of the anglo share price under very questionable circumstance. IMHO Quinn is as culpable as the author of his own misfortune as FF is reponsible for the woes of the country. Unfortunately, we will always have those among our countrymen who think 'shure he did great things for his country, county, town , parish and he should be left alone'. Thats how we ended up on this desolate shore.:mad:

Mad_Max

flutered wrote: »

the last regulator came down hard on two small companys that i know of, a credit union and an small time insurance broker, i am not saying the new guy is wrong, but will he be even handed, with all the publicity over anglo any one that even seemed to be in trouble was going to be hit hard at the moment,
according to quinn his bankers and financiers asked for a reprive, also he claimed to have a million in hard cash, i am sure that next month we will know who was correct.

The only worry is that he doesn't keep it up. I'd be worried if I never heard from this guy again.

Fat_Fingers

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tycoon-fights-for-empire-as-creditors-call-for-asset-sale-2122293.html

Anglo Irish Bank and other major creditors have upped the ante in recent days in their bid to overhaul the massive €4bn-plus debt mountain that is owed to them. :eek::eek:


I had no idea Sean Quinn managed to get himself into €4bn-plus debt !!!!
I was thinking it was "only" 2bn

paddyland

dan_d wrote: »

I'd imagine RTE gave Quinn a platform because he's the main sponsor for the Late Late??? He's probably doing deals with them aswell.

Well here's another nice scandal. As well as all the other bailouts, I am bailing out RTE with my licence fee.

This bully Quinn can come in, wave a very large wad of money at RTE, the 'national' broadcaster, sponsor some of their TV production, and in the process, buy himself some guaranteed positive airtime.

When the financial regulator comes calling, Quinn can then pick up the phone, call RTE, and 'remind' them of all the sponsorship deals, before the Six One News?

That is as bad as a group of lads clubbing together to fix Bertie up with a house. It might be all above board and peachy, but it is wide open to abuse, and frankly, it stinks.

That one sided RTE report on Quinn speaks volumes.

thebman

TBH its typical Irish attitude.

Regulator does nothing and lets people away with technically breaking rules and everyone is fine with it until the sky falls down and then they say he wasn't doing his job and should be fired and now they are saying he should lay off.

Have people learned nothing from the past few years?

thebman

thebman wrote: »

TBH its typical Irish attitude.

Regulator does nothing and lets people away with technically breaking rules and everyone is fine with it until the sky falls down and then they say he wasn't doing his job and should be fired and now they are saying he should lay off.

Have people learned nothing from the past few years?

Yeah, and is it just me, or is anyone else a bit cynical about the new regulator being a bit of a hardass..it does sort of give the government added justification for sending more cash the banks way now..'well, the regulator says they've to hold reserves of 7% now, so, sorry lads, we're gonna have to give them just another couple of billion...and there's no way in hell they'll lend it out'..
Although if this is the level of regulation we should expect, surely there will have to be an examination of what the last guy was at..

Rongil

I would have to say, without any hard evidence, that the previous Financial Regulator was part and parcel of the banking demise. If they were ordered to ignore the statutory regulations set for banks, is another question.

I have no qualms about the Regulator doing what they are supposed to do, we might not be in the poo if they had done so in the first place. I have no sympathy for Quinn, only his employees, who unfortunately worked for a small fish in a big ocean.

Adamisconfused

Yet again, someone flouts the rules and the typical Irish sentiment of, "ah sure, he's a grand fella" comes streaming to the surface.
To hell with Quinn. If we were in a properly civilised country such as Canada which actually enforces the law, then Quinn should be begging not to be thrown in front of a judge let alone making excuses for what his companies did. To hell with all the charlatans and law breakers.

paddyland

paddyland wrote: »

The thing I cannot understand, is WHY did RTE give Quinn such a tearjerking platform on the national news broadcast to plead his woes unquestioned and unopposed?

The regulator is not moving in there for fun, there are bloody great questions to be asked about how that man runs fast and loose with ethics and regulation. His cohorts are the very people who have run off to Cape Cod and Malaga to escape the mess they created.

It was a very one sided piece of broadcasting by RTE. Where was the debate? It was almost like another Bertie tearyfest.

Quinn sponsors things like the Late Late Show on RTE!!

Ddad wrote: »

I was listening to Radio 1 this morning and a senator from Cavan comes on with the Quinn is a decent man and has impeccable ethics and was beyond reproach.

paddyland wrote: »

Well here's another nice scandal. As well as all the other bailouts, I am bailing out RTE with my licence fee.

We may not have any control over our money going to NAMA but by God we can do something about the TV license....I hope we do sometime soon! Other countries through civil action have gotten rid of their license fee.

dan_d

Ddad wrote: »

no no no no no.

I was listening to Radio 1 this morning and a senator from Cavan comes on with the Quinn is a decent man and has impeccable ethics and was beyond reproach. Cast back three years and if you had made any allegation about Seanie Fitz you'd have been labelled a charlatan and Ahern would have been advising you to top yourself for talking down the economy, Let us not forget that MR Quinn was heavily involved in the propping up of the anglo share price under very questionable circumstance. IMHO Quinn is as culpable as the author of his own misfortune as FF is reponsible for the woes of the country. Unfortunately, we will always have those among our countrymen who think 'shure he did great things for his country, county, town , parish and he should be left alone'. Thats how we ended up on this desolate shore.:mad:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We're parochial. This is a prime example of it.
If he's that wonderful and has such impeccable ethics, then he wouldn't have these problems and his business would be doing just fine.
He's right up there with all the biggest culprits as far as I'm concerned.

InReality

No.

The numbers are there in black and white. Quinn Insurance needs x amount of funds. There are not there because Quinn "Global" has pledged them someplace else.

Its very cut and dried really.
If Quinn goes bust it's entirely his own fault.

Flamed Diving

thebman wrote: »

TBH its typical Irish attitude.

Regulator does nothing and lets people away with technically breaking rules and everyone is fine with it until the sky falls down and then they say he wasn't doing his job and should be fired and now they are saying he should lay off.

Have people learned nothing from the past few years?

Same with economists. When the times are good, and economists are calling to take the heat out of the economy, they are called "doom & gloom merchants", when the inevitable crash happens, they are asked why "they didn't see it coming".

Always the same.

ninty9er

For all we know, untackled, this could have been Anglo in 2 years time.

The Regulator is just doing his job, and if he finds nothing incriminating I'm sure he will hand the company back to the Quinn family.

Can we get a poll on the thread with a simple Yes/No/Abstain set up

ninty9er

ninty9er wrote: »

Can we get a poll on the thread with a simple Yes/No/Abstain set up

PM a mod, they might be willing to add it..

thebman

ninty9er wrote: »

For all we know, untackled, this could have been Anglo in 2 years time.

The Regulator is just doing his job, and if he finds nothing incriminating I'm sure he will hand the company back to the Quinn family.

Can we get a poll on the thread with a simple Yes/No/Abstain set up

No need IMO, anyone that disagrees should read the thread to find out why they are wrong. No point letting them see that 20% agree with them as they would all be wrong too IMO.

I agree with Flamed Diving that it is a similar problem economists face. The number of times I've seen posts here say economists weren't calling the construction boom only to be followed by posts saying anyone that did was bound to be right about something eventually and were just doom merchants is ridiculous.

People need to read and decide where they stand instead of the constant flip flopping witnessed on these forums.

phoenix999

Not so long ago, Sean Quinn was listed as Ireland's richest man. He has now dropped out of the top 10. Clearly being worth over 4 bilion wasnt enough and his greed saw him invest hundreds of millions in Anglo shares. Employees argue that the company is making 20 million a month - the guy owes billions. People complain when the government didn't do anything to regulate the banks and now when they do take action, people take to the streets protesting. It is time people in this country got real. It's a pity that people can't put the interests of the country before their own selfish needs (referring to the teachers in particular). This country will be bankrupted if the government is continuously forced to reverse its course. And tough luck to those ministers up north demanding the company be taken out of adminsitration, it is Dublin that is calling the shots now. Afterall, it is the soutern Irish taxpapyer who will foot the bill if things go pear shaped at Quinn. Good on you Brian Lenihan and the regulator. Let's see more of this! And its also about time we saw laws introduced to prevent these guys transferring their properties to family members. It is blatant evasion.

jmayo

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Same with economists. When the times are good, and economists are calling to take the heat out of the economy, they are called "doom & gloom merchants", when the inevitable crash happens, they are asked why "they didn't see it coming".

Always the same.

That view of economists, especially ours, is being very charitable to some of them.
An economists views are often tempered by who is currently paying their bills.
dan mclaughlin being an excellent example of this breed.

ninty9er wrote: »

For all we know, untackled, this could have been Anglo in 2 years time.

The Regulator is just doing his job, and if he finds nothing incriminating I'm sure he will hand the company back to the Quinn family.
...

I am now getting very worried you are back and I am having to agree with you. :eek:
Must now go and wash my mouth out with soap and water.


This whole debate about whether the regulator should have gotten an administrator into quinn insurance is laughable.
Almost everyone would agree that the regulator's office are heavily to blame for the banking messes and should have stepped in to clean up some of the schenanagins.

Now when the regulator does step into an institution to protect the interests of the country, it's citizens and the institutions customers we have yokos baying that it shouldn't have been done since the companys owner created lots of jobs down the years and has been seen always as a decent skin.

The ultimate slur (parrotted by one particular ff backbencher who is depriving some village of it's idiot) is that this regulator is a foreigner and should not be interferring in Irish business affairs, especially when it is the affairs of a well connected businessman.
FFS can people grow up and understand if you break rules then there are sanctions, if you can't be trusted to get your business (particularly once such as insurance or finance) in order then tough you are out.

FFS we either start learning from the past or we adopt fyffes product as our national emblem.

Flamed Diving

jmayo wrote: »

That view of economists, especially ours, is being very charitable to some of them.
An economists views are often tempered by who is currently paying their bills.
dan mclaughlin being an excellent example of this breed.

Of course. Perhaps I should have said independent economists.

fontanalis

jmayo wrote: »

That view of economists, especially ours, is being very charitable to some of them.
An economists views are often tempered by who is currently paying their bills.
dan mclaughlin being an excellent example of this breed.



I am now getting very worried you are back and I am having to agree with you. :eek:
Must now go and wash my mouth out with soap and water.


This whole debate about whether the regulator should have gotten an administrator into quinn insurance is laughable.
Almost everyone would agree that the regulator's office are heavily to blame for the banking messes and should have stepped in to clean up some of the schenanagins.

Now when the regulator does step into an institution to protect the interests of the country, it's citizens and the institutions customers we have yokos baying that it shouldn't have been done since the companys owner created lots of jobs down the years and has been seen always as a decent skin.

The ultimate slur (parrotted by one particular ff backbencher who is depriving some village of it's idiot) is that this regulator is a foreigner and should not be interferring in Irish business affairs, especially when it is the affairs of a well connected businessman.
FFS can people grow up and understand if you break rules then there are sanctions, if you can't be trusted to get your business (particularly once such as insurance or finance) in order then tough you are out.

FFS we either start learning from the past or we adopt fyffes product as our national emblem.

It's reminding me of the village scene from Borat.
When the f*** will people see the connection between corruption, cronyism, gombeenism & nepotism with a shyt economy? Other countries will want nothing to do with Ireland.