[Media] Clamps removed by angle grinder

jd

This story has been running for a while in Wexford...
I wonder what the end result will be here...

http://www.wexfordecho.ie/news/story/?trs=mhojgbojau&cat=news

A DISPUTE about parking in a Wexford estate escalated this week when a resident began removing clamps from his vehicle with an angle grinder.

Seamus Kenny’s commercial van has been clamped a number of times since new parking restrictions were introduced at Hollyville Heights earlier this month despite the fact that he has been resident in the estate for two years and the van is his only vehicle.

His van was twice clamped this week, on Saturday and Monday, and Mr. Kenny removed both clamps with an angle grinder – which, he said, he will continue to do as long as his van is clamped...

How Strange

I dealt with a management company a few years back (we were the agents) and they insisted on bringing in the same ridiculous rule. We have to implement it which drove us crazy and I was completely opposed to it.

I personally can't see how they are allowed to discriminate between residents on the type of vehicle they drive unless there is a specific clause in the lease agreement saying it is prohibited to park commercial vehicles on the estate. If there isn't any clause or a special motion wasn't put forward and passed by the majority at an AGM then I'd say then it's illegal.

The article says it's a residents association and if that's the case they probably have no mandate to do any of this incuding introducing clamping.

It's an interesting one alright.

gurramok

This(private clamping) has been debated on boards before and the consensus reached was that private clampers have nothing in law to back them up in a court as there are no laws regulating them hence they have not sued the victim in this case for removing clamps.

So it appears that the victim of clamping in this case has a legal right to remove a private clamp as long as he does not damage the clamp(NCPS property). The Gardai also treat it as a private matter.

Just like if I started putting camps on vehicles in private apt complexes, I just need a few fools to pay up Funny laws.(or lack of 'em )

jd

More here
http://www.wexfordecho.com/news/story/?trs=mhojeysnid&cat=news

Secretary of Hollyville Heights Residents’ Assoication, Orla Tarpey, said the new rules had been enacted by the estate’s property management company and said the Residents’ Association was being smeared.

“The property management company is run by developer Willie Bennett and everyone who bought property in the estate signed up to these rules – they’re not coming from the Residents’ Association,” she said, adding that the Residents’ Association simply worked to keep the estate looking clean and tidy.

She said the prohibition on commercial vehicles was part of the lease Mr. Kenny had signed and said he would have to take the matter up with his landlord – something Mr. Kenny, who has rented his flat for two years, strenuously denies.

“If we give leeway to one person then we’ll have to do it for everyone,” she said, when asked if Mr. Kenny could be exempted from the commercial vehicle ban. Ms. Tarpey said she agreed with the two-hour deadline for visitors and said parking was a serious problem in the estate.

ravendude

If I was him I'd get a solicitor to send a letter to whoever is the head of the residents association and threaten to sue them personally for damages arising from the clamping (loss of business etc.) (they probably wouldn't have the foresight to set themselves up as a limited company).

I agree, a residents association would surely have no authority to engage a clamping company. With a management company in a block of apartments as far as I know, to some extent you are legally signing up to their policies when you purchase an apartment. A residents association on the otherhand is nothing more than a group of self appointed people who happen to be living in the area.

Paulw

In our development, the parking is covered under the Lease Contract, which was basically built on the Planning requirements, which specified commercial vehicles were prohibited from the parking area.

In that way, this resident's association may (just) be within their right to enforce the rule that way (although I don't agree with how they're doing it).

With regards to clamping and the cutting of the clamp, it's the difference between criminal damage (breaking off the clamp) and interfecing with a motor vehicle (road traffic Act, clamping of the car). Both are at fault and could potentially take the other to court. The cost of doing such is prohibitive though.

Victor

Some very loose phrasing by the paper.

The_Conductor

Paulw wrote: »

In our development, the parking is covered under the Lease Contract, which was basically built on the Planning requirements, which specified commercial vehicles were prohibited from the parking area.

In that way, this resident's association may (just) be within their right to enforce the rule that way (although I don't agree with how they're doing it).

With regards to clamping and the cutting of the clamp, it's the difference between criminal damage (breaking off the clamp) and interfecing with a motor vehicle (road traffic Act, clamping of the car). Both are at fault and could potentially take the other to court. The cost of doing such is prohibitive though.

Ours is exactly the same.
I guess that the protagonist is confusing the lease he signed with his landlord and the lease his landlord holds on the property........

jd

smccarrick wrote: »

Ours is exactly the same.
I guess that the protagonist is confusing the lease he signed with his landlord and the lease his landlord holds on the property........

His (rental) lease probably states that he has to abide by the rules of the complex as set out by the management company.

jd

Update from the Wexford Echo
http://www.wexfordecho.ie/news/story/?trs=mhojidauql&cat=news

I'd guess what's happening here is that the Management Company is billing the landlords for the clamping charges + the damage to the clamps.

Clamping mad

A YOUNG family is being forced to move from their Hollyville Heights home after new parking restrictions were introduced in the estate.

Artur Witman, who uses a commercial van for his delivery business, and his partner Dorota Piekaraska said the ban on parking commercial vehicles in the estate was driving them from their home of a year.

Another resident, Seamus Kenny, who led a campaign against the new "Cromwellian" regulations, has also decided to move after his vehicle was clamped for the sixth time on Saturday morning.

...
Mr Kenny said he knows of two other families who have already moved from the estate because of the controversial parking restrictions and said it was a measure of how bad the atmosphere had become that people were opting to leave.

Having opposed these new restrictions, I am disappointed that I am being forced to move but I have also been told that the Residents’ Association has threatened legal action against my landlord unless I move.

Cookie_Monster

Thats crazy, they have to move because the MC have this rule, is it even legally enforceable considering its actually illegal* for anyone but the council to clamp a car?

*messy gray area but in theory they have no right to at all.

seamus

They signed a lease or other legal agreement that they cannot park commercial vehicles in the estate.

Therefore they should stop parking commercial vehicles in the estate, and problem solved.

Clamping legality aside, the MC would be well within their rights to take the landlords to court for breach of the lease, who can in turn take their tenants to court for the same thing.

Most properties under jurisdiction of a management company have this kind of rule in place to discourage companies from using these carparks as overnight parking for their vehicles. They are a complete nuisance. Anything bigger than a Nissan vanette takes up more than one space and is an eyesore.

If the rule wasn't in place, people would be bringing lorries home and parking them in residential estates (yes, we had one guy doing this).

SoupyNorman

seamus wrote: »

They signed a lease or other legal agreement that they cannot park commercial vehicles in the estate.

Therefore they should stop parking commercial vehicles in the estate, and problem solved.

Clamping legality aside, the MC would be well within their rights to take the landlords to court for breach of the lease, who can in turn take their tenants to court for the same thing.

Most properties under jurisdiction of a management company have this kind of rule in place to discourage companies from using these carparks as overnight parking for their vehicles. They are a complete nuisance. Anything bigger than a Nissan vanette takes up more than one space and is an eyesore.

If the rule wasn't in place, people would be bringing lorries home and parking them in residential estates (yes, we had one guy doing this).

While in agreement with this, I am also in agreement with the clamp being removed with the angle grinder, my sister got clamped recently and as she had no CC so I paid it, €120 is a sickening and totally unjustifiable figure especially when the car was not causing any obstruction or parked on a main road (it was in a residential development). I do agree that she ignored the signs but €120, I nearly lost my lunch. Do they honestly believe that €50 is not an adequate sum to act as a ‘deterrent?’. Course not, sure they’d never make any profit off €50!

PCPhoto

SoupyNorman wrote: »

While in agreement with this, I am also in agreement with the clamp being removed with the angle grinder, my sister got clamped recently and as she had no CC so I paid it, €120 is a sickening and totally unjustifiable figure especially when the car was not causing any obstruction or parked on a main road (it was in a residential development). I do agree that she ignored the signs but €120, I nearly lost my lunch. Do they honestly believe that €50 is not an adequate sum to act as a ‘deterrent?’. Course not, sure they’d never make any profit off €50!

sorry - I have to disagree here ...... €120 is a deterrant, €50 isnt..... some people dont mind the loss of €50, while at least €120 is a sting in the pocket.

I think you should have told the sister to goto the post office/shop and pay it that way ...so she could learn her lesson...instead of bailing her out.

I've been clamped loads of times - ALL of which were my fault and I accept it , but I make the conscious decision NOT to pay for parking - I generally park for 8hrs a day ...so if I get clamped twice a week I break even, I havent been clamped in almost a year, so thats me saving money right there !!

As regards the topic on hand.... I dont think management companies should allow clamping on private grounds, and a commercial van ban surely thats discrimination against commercial drivers !!

I've got a fiesta van - same shape as a car but no back seats.

Cookie_Monster

PCPhoto wrote: »

and a commercial van ban surely thats discrimination against commercial drivers !!

I've got a fiesta van - same shape as a car but no back seats.

this is where it would get interesting, would the residents or MC have issue with a fiesta van or any other carvan or 4x4 or is it just larger vans cos the are unsightly.

Is there a specific reason this (commercial) ban was brought in in the first place? I see they have clamping due to townfolk parking there but no reason in the paper why commercials are specifically targeted

JJ

I wonder what they'd do about a wheelchair adapted vehicle? I drive a wheelchair adapted vehicle because my daughter is disabled. The same vehicles that are used as commercial vehicles are also adapted for wheelchairs so does that mean they'd be clamped too? I'd imagine if they weren't supposed to be, you'd still get the neanderthal clampers clamping them anyway.

I used to live in a private estate where there was clamping and when we had borrowed my in-law's car, it got clamped but we found that if we rang in and said it would be there, it would be exempt. From then on, we did this each day but we still got clamped on one occassion but they removed it when we reported the mistake. It was satisfying to see the none too happy faces on the clampers when they had to remove their clamp that time.

SoupyNorman

PCPhoto wrote: »

sorry - I have to disagree here ...... €120 is a deterrant, €50 isnt..... some people dont mind the loss of €50, while at least €120 is a sting in the pocket.

I think you should have told the sister to goto the post office/shop and pay it that way ...so she could learn her lesson...instead of bailing her out.

Haha, you must have pretty deep pockets if you reckon that €50 is not a deterrent. Also the severity of parking offence should reflect the release fee, e.g. parking in a bus lane, blocking an entrance etc should be €120. Parking in a development as a visitor, causing no obstruction = €120...ridiculous.

The only reason for such a steep fee is profit pure and simple.

I didn’t bail her out, she used my CC and paid me back not that this matters at all.(You sound like you'd be a pretty heartless sibling)

KamiKazi

I know if I ever get clamped I'll be whipping out an angle grinder.

SoupyNorman

KamiKazi wrote: »

I know if I ever get clamped I'll be whipping out an angle grinder.

Hrmm, I wonder would a few drops of Hydrochloric Acid do the job, it'd be quieter too.

KamiKazi

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Hrmm, I wonder would a few drops of Hydrochloric Acid do the job, it'd be quieter too.

Not quite as easy to acquire as an angle grinder though

Paulw

PCPhoto wrote: »

As regards the topic on hand.... I dont think management companies should allow clamping on private grounds, and a commercial van ban surely thats discrimination against commercial drivers !!

In most cases, it's actually detailed as part of planning permission for the development. The clauses stating no commercial vehicles is not something that management companies make up.

Yes, it is descrimination, but it is there to make sure that a residential development stays residential.

We have the same rules in our development, we do use a clamping firm, and we do enforce the rules.

seamus

KamiKazi wrote: »

Not quite as easy to acquire as an angle grinder though

You'd also be waiting. It's not like in the movies

Oliver1985

Im member reading about a guy in town cut it off and got 5000 fine and brought to court they take pictures of the clamp on the car!!!

Cookie_Monster

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Im member reading about a guy in town cut it off and got 5000 fine and brought to court they take pictures of the clamp on the car!!!

council can and will take you to court and fine you, private companies can't. can only go to small claims for value of lock or clamp destroyed, but since they are operating at the edge of the law they rarely do

Oliver1985

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

council can and will take you to court and fine you, private companies can't. can only go to small claims for value of lock or clamp destroyed, but since they are operating at the edge of the law they rarely do

Good to know Ill cut some Ncps clamps off

jd

Guy involved has posted videos on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOth1bEAOng

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLFqy8OqMRw

Xiney

The "residents association" sound like a bunch of power hungry assholes, tbh.

loyatemu

in addition to the reasons given above, commercial vehicles parked in residential estates are a safety hazard.

High-sided vans can block the view of drivers pulling out of their driveways, or turning into side roads and onto greens - particularly hazardous in areas where children are likely to be playing.

Saying "its my only vehicle" is not an excuse - if you're running a business, finding a legitimate parking space for your vehicle is an expense you should take account of.

BostonB

loyatemu wrote: »

... if you're running a business, finding a legitimate parking space for your vehicle is an expense you should take account of.

Is it illegal to park a commercial vehicles in a residential area?

johno2

This residents association would wake up pretty quick if tradesmen decided to boycott working in the estate. Not that it would ever happen though, but they would certainly learn to appreciate the need for commercial vans then. I wonder if their rules allow them to clamp a courier van as he is trying to deliver a parcel to someone. What about post office vans or ambulances? Why don't they just put a 1.8m height barrier across the entrance to the estate and be done with the problem. Bloody hypocrites.

johno

markpb

BostonB wrote: »

Is it illegal to park a commercial vehicles in a residential area?

Not usually. The local authority can place a weight/axle restriction on parking in residential areas. However, many lease agreements signed by owners include a no commercial vehicle restriction.

Paulw

johno2 wrote: »

Why don't they just put a 1.8m height barrier across the entrance to the estate and be done with the problem.

Probably because they wouldn't get planning permission for it. :rolleyes:

They do seem to be overzealous in their rules, but the restriction on commercial vehicles is not new, and it's actually quite common. It is generally specified in the planning permission and dictated by the local authority.

BostonB

Theres a big difference between someone doing a job and someone parking up everynight. I've noticed some people with big vans tend to park them away from their own house, and definately not in front. That is usually the start of problem. No one seems to have a problem with a van or similar once its off the road and not in front of other peoples houses.

the_syco

What gets me is that he's been living there for two years, yet it was only in the last year that the rule came into effect, forcing him out.

Haven't watched the videos yet, but will do when I go home.

KamiKazi

loyatemu wrote: »

in addition to the reasons given above, commercial vehicles parked in residential estates are a safety hazard.

High-sided vans can block the view of drivers pulling out of their driveways, or turning into side roads and onto greens - particularly hazardous in areas where children are likely to be playing.

Saying "its my only vehicle" is not an excuse - if you're running a business, finding a legitimate parking space for your vehicle is an expense you should take account of.

Yea good thing there aren't high sided vans on public roads.

Oh wait :rolleyes:

BostonB

the_syco wrote: »

What gets me is that he's been living there for two years, yet it was only in the last year that the rule came into effect, forcing him out.....

Theres a few blurry parties in this story...

1) Estate’s property management company.
2) The Owner of the Van
3) 96% of people on petition in support of the Van owner
4) Residents’ Association

I say blurry because the Sec of the Residents’ Association says its the Estate’s property management company, but then says "If we give leeway to one person then we’ll have to do it for everyone” which kinda contradicts that its the management company pushing this.

If its the Residents’ Association then that contradicts the 96% of people on the petition. Unless of course both or either are not representative of the group. And of course who knows if the reporting is accurate either.

I don't think we're hearing the full story tbh.

jd

In the Wexford People

Man in bitter parking row hits ‘The Consumer Show’

A WEXFORD man who was the centre of a bitter row over parking at the Hollyville Heights estate will feature on RTE's new consumer affairs show next Monday night.
Seamus Kenny hit the headlines earlier this year due to the row, which saw him regularly clamped ... as the estate has a ban on commercial vehicles.