Good Friday is not a public holiday..

Kotek Besar

..so why is my son's creche closed?

Good Friday is a normal working day in this country. I'm working as normal. I still have to pay creche as normal.. yet they are closed. This means I have to use a day's annual leave when I'm paying the creche to look after my child.

Anyone else think this is not on?

CrazyRabbit

Why are you paying for a service not provided?

Kotek Besar

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Why are you paying for a service not provided?

My point exactly!

I accept that creche closes on public holidays, but Good Friday is not a public holiday, it's a normal working day.

Fad

Kotek Besar wrote: »

My point exactly!

I accept that creche closes on public holidays, but Good Friday is not a public holiday, it's a normal working day.

Obviously all of the staff are devout Catholics and need the day to attend multiple Passion Masses.........

I was under the impression that, while it's not a public holiday, a lot of places get the day off (I understand that obviously you dont) and maybe they were working under that (incorrect) assumption.

Do they normally open on big religious holidays?

Kotek Besar

Fad wrote: »

Do they normally open on big religious holidays?

Forgive me, apart from Christmas Day and St Stephen's Day (which are, of course, public holidays), what other big religious holidays are there?

Dades

1st Nov is a religious holiday. Also the 1st May has a religious origin (though not a Christian religion ).

I totally get the OPs gripe - I've nearly always had to work Good Friday too.

However no doubt there will be something in whatever T&Cs you signed off on with the creche. Do you have any forms you signed?

Moonbeam

Is it a community creche?

lazygal

In my service, we've been on Easter hols this week and will be next. I gave a calender with the dates of all breaks, hols etc at the start of the year with the information pack to all parents. Did you not know this day would be one where the creche was closed in advance or is it a last minute thing? The creche can set their hours like any workplace-it might not suit you but would you not like another day with your child?

Nevyn

Check your contract with the crech and the terms and conditions you agreed to.
There are over heads which the crehce has which are not related to wages and they have to be taken into consideration as well.

Kotek Besar

lazygal wrote: »

In my service, we've been on Easter hols this week and will be next. I gave a calender with the dates of all breaks, hols etc at the start of the year with the information pack to all parents. Did you not know this day would be one where the creche was closed in advance or is it a last minute thing? The creche can set their hours like any workplace-

Yes, I knew in advance. Wasn't happy about it then, not happy about it now.

It's quite simple. I pay €150 a week for my child to be taken care of between 9am and 5.30pm, Monday to Friday. I accept that this should and does exclude Irish public holidays, but I disagree that the creche should be entitled to not provide the service on normal working days while continuing to take my money - even if I am informed of the closure in advance.

lazygal wrote: »

it might not suit you but would you not like another day with your child?

Nice attitude.

lazygal

If you knew in advance I think you are just having a rant. The creche gave you plenty of notice to arrange to take a day off etc.

My attitude is nice, if I was lucky enough to have a child I would want to be with them as much as possible.

Khannie

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Forgive me, apart from Christmas Day and St Stephen's Day (which are, of course, public holidays), what other big religious holidays are there?

Easter.

seamus

lazygal wrote: »

If you knew in advance I think you are just having a rant. The creche gave you plenty of notice to arrange to take a day off etc.

His point is that if he's paying €150 per week for them to look after his child, then surely he's entitled to a 20% discount on weeks where the creche has decided to arbitrarily close for a single day? Public holidays are different.

Khannie

lazygal wrote: »

My attitude is nice, if I was lucky enough to have a child I would want to be with them as much as possible.

A day off every once in a while is nice too.

Kotek Besar

seamus wrote: »

His point is that if he's paying €150 per week for them to look after his child, then surely he's entitled to a 20% discount on weeks where the creche has decided to arbitrarily close for a single day? Public holidays are different.

Precisely, thank you.

lazygal

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Precisely, thank you.

My point is that you knew this in advance, chose to send your child there and agreed to the terms and conditions.
If you don't like this policy, why not change to a service that suits you? You did know this before this week.

Kotek Besar

Khannie wrote: »

A day off every once in a while is nice too.

Indeed it is, but I'd prefer to choose myself when to use my annual leave, rather than be forced to use it because the creche decides to shut up shop while still being paid.

Kotek Besar

lazygal wrote: »

My point is that you knew this in advance, chose to send your child there and agreed to the terms and conditions.
If you don't like this policy, why not change to a service that suits you? You did know this before this week.

Because all the creches near to me are the same. One (not the one my child goes to) actually closes for two weeks during the Summer - while continuing to take money from it's customers. That's €300 they'd receive, for each child, for providing absolutely no service whatsoever.

lazygal

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Because all the creches near to me are the same.

This should tell you this is SOP. Maybe look into another area if this one day is very inconvenient and check that the provider meets the needs, which you already agreed to with your existing service but don't suit

Kotek Besar

lazygal wrote: »

This should tell you this is SOP. Maybe look into another area if this one day is very inconvenient and check that the provider meets the needs, which you already agreed to with your existing service but don't suit

Or maybe you should cop on.

This is, apparently, common practice among creches in Ireland (or in Waterford, at least) and will continue to be so for as long as people like you feel it's perfectly acceptable for a company, who you pay for a service, to decide to not provide that service, still charge you for it, so long as they give you notice.

I might add, in late December / early January when we were having the bad, icy weather, creche decided to open an hour later than usual, to allow their staff extra time to get to work. Can you believe it?

Obviously they didn't think (or care) that the parents who pay them have to get to work on time and, guess what, leave home earlier in bad weather (something creche didn't think of, clearly).

lazygal

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Or maybe you should cop on.

This is, apparently, common practice among creches in Ireland (or in Waterford, at least) and will continue to be so for as long as people like you feel it's perfectly acceptable for a company, who you pay for a service, to decide to not provide that service, still charge you for it, so long as they give you notice.

I might add, in late December / early January when we were having the bad, icy weather, creche decided to open an hour later than usual, to allow their staff extra time to get to work. Can you believe it?

Obviously they didn't think (or care) that the parents who pay them have to get to work on time and, guess what, leave home earlier in bad weather (something creche didn't think of, clearly).

I can only speak for my service. We inform our parents at the start of the year of all dates pertaining to the service, holidays, public holidays etc. During the bad weather I stayed open and took siblings free of charge who were stuck because the primary school was closed. I paid a member of staff to work overtime and did not charge parents.
I simply suggest that if this provider does not suit your needs, maybe you should find one that does. You knew the conditions in advance and agreed to them. If this was such a sore point with you, tell the provider and change to another. I would not pay for a service I was not happy with and I would switch to a new one.

Nevyn

The crech still has to pay wages, tax, prsi, rent ect when it's closed for holidays.
Would you prefer to not pay those two weeks and for the ammount to be spread out on the rest of the weeks?

Kotek Besar

lazygal wrote: »

I can only speak for my service. We inform our parents at the start of the year of all dates pertaining to the service, holidays, public holidays etc. During the bad weather I stayed open and took siblings free of charge who were stuck because the primary school was closed. I paid a member of staff to work overtime and did not charge parents.

That is great service, I commend you on that.

lazygal wrote: »

I simply suggest that if this provider does not suit your needs, maybe you should find one that does. You knew the conditions in advance and agreed to them. If this was such a sore point with you, tell the provider and change to another. I would not pay for a service I was not happy with and I would switch to a new one.

I'm not an idiot, so please don't speak to me as if I am.

I feel it is unacceptable for a creche to close on days other than Irish public holidays, yet continue to take payment from it's customers. I know that this appears to be common practice, however. This, I feel, is disgusting.

It's all very well to say "I would not pay for a service I was not happy with and I would switch to a new one.", but when they're all doing it (and I think you know very well that they are), then switching creches won't solve the problem, will it.

Perhaps most parents just bend over, accept this as the norm and hand over their cash - "thanks for not looking after my child today, here's your money".

Kotek Besar

Thaedydal wrote: »

The crech still has to pay wages, tax, prsi, rent ect when it's closed for holidays.
Would you prefer to not pay those two weeks and for the ammount to be spread out on the rest of the weeks?

Good Friday is not a holiday, it is a working day. They are being paid (by me) to work.

Balmed Out

Every business gets to set their own hours of opening. Thats just the way it is. Have you checked that all other local crech's do close that day? Id write a letter complaining about it and ask them to reconsider in future years and encourage others to do the same if i were you. Plenty of businesses are expected to open on public holidays for example my local leisure centre will have slightly reduced hours but opens every day but christmas and new years days. Thats the industry norm and the customers needs I suppose which is why they do it. I cant imagine that a crech would close on Good Friday if most of its customers complained.

cbyrd

Good Friday is not a public holiday, no, but the fee you pay is based on the placement for the child throughout the year, you have to pay the 5 days in a 4 day week to hold the place for the child, same way you get paid your holiday pay even though you are not working the 20 odd days off you get.

It's not done on a day to day payment, if it was then you would pay daily, but if you worked on that system then if you were 10 mins late getting there they could accept another child in your childs place, if they were full it would be tough and you would not be able to leave your child there !!

this is why a place is held for your child and cannot be filled by another child. That is what you are paying for, the priviledge of knowing that your child always has their place. Sameway a primary or secondary school has scheduled days off working parents have to take the time off,this is why you're given a calendar if you were given appropriate notice you have no arguement, time to do that was when you were handed the calendar the first time.
Annoying but true

Kotek Besar

cbyrd wrote: »

Good Friday is not a public holiday, no, but the fee you pay is based on the placement for the child throughout the year, you have to pay the 5 days in a 4 day week to hold the place for the child, same way you get paid your holiday pay even though you are not working the 20 odd days off you get.

It's not done on a day to day payment, if it was then you would pay daily, but if you worked on that system then if you were 10 mins late getting there they could accept another child in your childs place, if they were full it would be tough and you would not be able to leave your child there !!

this is why a place is held for your child and cannot be filled by another child. That is what you are paying for, the priviledge of knowing that your child always has their place. Sameway a primary or secondary school has scheduled days off working parents have to take the time off,this is why you're given a calendar if you were given appropriate notice you have no arguement, time to do that was when you were handed the calendar the first time.
Annoying but true

Codswallop.

Don't mean to be rude, but re-read what you've just written and see if it makes sense.

Khannie

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Indeed it is, but I'd prefer to choose myself when to use my annual leave, rather than be forced to use it because the creche decides to shut up shop while still being paid.

I meant a day off from the kids.

Khannie

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Or maybe you should cop on.

Here....can you extend a bit of courtesy please.

lazygal

OP, if you want to sort this out you will have to approach the service provider in a less aggressive manner than you have approached some posts here.
I have tried to explain the rationale behind this policy, but if you don't agree with it that is no reason to be rude.

Khannie

I'm off work tomorrow. My company are still paying me. I'm assuming the creche staff are being paid. While it's not an official holiday here, it's sort of an unofficial one. You need only look at what the traffic's gonna be like tomorrow to know that. I think it's just one of those things you need to accept or (geniunely) look elsewhere.

Have you raised this with the creche?

Kotek Besar

lazygal wrote: »

OP, if you want to sort this out you will have to approach the service provider in a less aggressive manner than you have approached some posts here.
I have tried to explain the rationale behind this policy, but if you don't agree with it that is no reason to be rude.

Aggressive? I'm not aggressive in the slightest dear, I just don't like being ripped off.

cbyrd

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Codswallop.

Don't mean to be rude, but re-read what you've just written and see if it makes sense.

Ok let me put it in terms you will understand,
if you sign up for a year long contract with a phone company billing monthly or weekly you pay monthly or weekly to hold that number. If you dont' use that phone one day does not mean you get that day free or deducted from your bill. Same rule applies here ok, it's not a daily service, and to be honest with you the way you attack people in here that just try to give advice or opinion is quite rude.
It's not codswallop, i think you need to ask your service provider what they're rules and regulations are, or in this case the people who look after your child instead of btiching about it and then attacking those who try to help.

Kotek Besar

Khannie wrote: »

I'm assuming the creche staff are being paid.

I'm sure they are. With money paid by me for a service not being provided.

Khannie wrote: »

While it's not an official holiday here, it's sort of an unofficial one.

Good Friday is a working day.

Khannie wrote: »

Have you raised this with the creche?

I asked the manager if Good Friday was a public holiday and if they were open. I knew the answer, but I'm hoping that when saying the words, "no, Good Friday is not a public holiday, however creche is closed", it'll make her think. That's as far as I'm personally prepared to go. The reason I do not want to push the issue further with the creche is because I like to know that my child is being well looked after and is in safe hands. I'm not suggesting that the creche might treat my child differently if I were to voice my dissatisfaction at their closure on a working day while continuing to take payment, but I'd prefer to be on good terms with them.

Kotek Besar

cbyrd wrote: »

if you sign up for a year long contract with a phone company billing monthly or weekly you pay monthly or weekly to hold that number. If you dont' use that phone one day does not mean you get that day free or deducted from your bill.

No. Totally different. The service is still there, however a choice is made by the customer not to use it. That would be like creche being open but me choosing not to take my child in.

cbyrd wrote: »

Same rule applies here ok, it's not a daily service,

No, it's a weekly service. Point?

cbyrd wrote: »

and to be honest with you the way you attack people in here that just try to give advice or opinion is quite rude.

I'm afraid I respectfully disagree with anybody who enjoys being ripped off.

cbyrd wrote: »

It's not codswallop, i think you need to ask your service provider what they're rules and regulations are, or in this case the people who look after your child instead of btiching about it and then attacking those who try to help.

Those who try to help? By saying to look elsewhere? If I'm not wrong, most creches are the same.

cbyrd

Ok fair point about the choice thing but you're not being billed by the day this is my point, if you were then you could pay for 4 instead of 5.

another point is if you are taking a day off are you going to be paid for it? unless you are self employed you really won't lose out surely.

Zulu

cbyrd wrote: »

Ok let me put it in terms you will understand,
if you sign up for a year long contract with a phone company billing monthly or weekly you pay monthly or weekly to hold that number. If you dont' use that phone one day does not mean you get that day free or deducted ...

Bad analogy. If they remove service (or there's "downtime") you should/do get refunded.
That is unless you are with a shower of absolute cowboys.

I sympathies with the op - they've paid for a service, and the crèche have arbitrarily decided not to provide it. (S)He should get a refund.

It's an awful shame we accept this kind of crap tbh.

Zulu

cbyrd wrote: »

another point is if you are taking a day off are you going to be paid for it? unless you are self employed you really won't lose out surely.

That really his beside the point. Maybe they don't have holidays left, maybe they're self employed, maybe, maybe, maybe....

The point is they paid for a service & they're not getting it.

lazygal

Zulu wrote: »

Bad analogy. If they remove service (or there's "downtime") you should/do get refunded.
That is unless you are with a shower of absolute cowboys.

I sympathies with the op - they've paid for a service, and the crèche have arbitrarily decided not to provide it. (S)He should get a refund.

It's an awful shame we accept this kind of crap tbh.

OP knew this was the deal when they signed up. They could have queried it then or sought a provider who better suited their needs. As they knew in advance and agreed to the T&Cs, I can't see why they object now.

Moonbeam

I think if a creche only costs 150 euro a week that they have included the weeks being closed in the over all price.
I purposely sent my child to a creche open every day of the year except public holidays because I work those days,if you knew in advance you really have no reason to moan about it.

cbyrd

i think you're best option would be to hire a child minder, that way then you call the shots.

nolly23

http://www.siptu.ie/YourRights/TUFGuideToLabourLaw/HoursHolidaysGeneralConditions/OrganisationOfWorkingTimeAct1997AnnualLe/





What Is The Difference Between A Public Holiday And A Bank Holiday?

A Public Holiday is a day declared by law to be a Public Holiday. A Bank Holiday has no legal status.
In everyday language, Public Holiday and Bank Holiday are often used interchangeably. The only Bank Holiday that is not also a Public Holiday is Good Friday. Good Friday has no legal basis as a holiday. Always use the expression Public Holiday. The State occasionally declares days to be ‘Public Holidays’ as they did for 31 December, 1999, Millennium Eve.
In some employments – local authorities and creameries – employees also take the Church Holidays. The Church Holidays were 6 January, Ascension Thursday, Corpus Christi, 15 August, 1 November and 8 December. With a fortnight’s notice these can be substituted for Public Holidays. Employees in the sectors mentioned often take both Public and Church Holidays, the extra days being subtracted from their Annual Leave entitlement

Love2love

My son's creche is closed today too. I have the day off myself so it doesn't really bother me but I will say that I was not informed by the staff nor was there even a sign on the wall to say it was closed today. It was just accepted.
I brought this to their attention and still nothing was said / done.

ash23

OP, my understanding of the whole thing (from the creche my daughter attends) is as follows.

(I'm using rough made up figures here).

There are 365 days in a year. Lets say in total weekends and bank holidays come to roughly 120 days per year.

So the working days of the creche are 245 days. So they also close good friday and christmas eve and new years eve and a couple of days over christmas. So we're at 240 days.


They work out the cost of the childcare based on the 240 days and split it up into weekly costs.
So lets say those 240 days cost €7800. They split it over 52 weeks and charge €150 per week.

So lets say they don't close over christmas except for public holidays and they don't close good friday. We're at 245 days. Which would cost 7963 for the year. Resulting in a weekly charge of 154.

So it would cost you and extra 5 euro per week for creche.



My company make us keep 3 days annual leave aside for good friday, christmas eve and new years eve as we are closed but it isn't a public holiday.

ash23

Love2love wrote: »

My son's creche is closed today too. I have the day off myself so it doesn't really bother me but I will say that I was not informed by the staff nor was there even a sign on the wall to say it was closed today. It was just accepted.
I brought this to their attention and still nothing was said / done.

This happened to me a few years ago. I wasn't told, nor were any signs up that creche was closing at 3pm. The place I worked at the time was open on good friday. I arrived at 6pm to collect my daughter to find one car outside the creche(the manager), and my daughter and her were the only people there.

Basically they had told every parent except myself or my ex. Everyone else went home at 3pm and she had to stay with my daughter. They didn't call as they knew we were both working and that it was their error.

Hwever since then, there have been signs up every year and I've always been told :P

GerardKeating

nolly23 wrote: »

http://www.siptu.ie/YourRights/TUFGuideToLabourLaw/HoursHolidaysGeneralConditions/OrganisationOfWorkingTimeAct1997AnnualLe/





What Is The Difference Between A Public Holiday And A Bank Holiday?

A Public Holiday is a day declared by law to be a Public Holiday. A Bank Holiday has no legal status.
In everyday language, Public Holiday and Bank Holiday are often used interchangeably. The only Bank Holiday that is not also a Public Holiday is Good Friday. Good Friday has no legal basis as a holiday. Always use the expression Public Holiday. The State occasionally declares days to be ‘Public Holidays’ as they did for 31 December, 1999, Millennium Eve.
In some employments – local authorities and creameries – employees also take the Church Holidays. The Church Holidays were 6 January, Ascension Thursday, Corpus Christi, 15 August, 1 November and 8 December. With a fortnight’s notice these can be substituted for Public Holidays. Employees in the sectors mentioned often take both Public and Church Holidays, the extra days being subtracted from their Annual Leave entitlement

SIPTU are slightly incorrect in this, Good Friday is not the only Bank Holiday that is not a public Holiday, There are three Bank holidays at Christmas December 25/26/27 and the third one is not a public holiday. It calls on 29th December in 2010, since December 25/26 are weekends.