UN Mission to Chad

cyrusdvirus

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0331/1224267400031.html

Troops being called home

iceage

I thought every man and his dog knew this.

Local-womanizer

iceage wrote: »

I thought every man and his dog knew this.

Especially since I made a thread about it already.....:(

:P

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055870379

cyrusdvirus

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Especially since I made a thread about it already.....:(

:P

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055870379

Apologies LW, my bad!!

Mods, please merge/delete as appropriate

OS119

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Especially since I made a thread about it already.....:(

:P

i did one a week before yours - do i get a Blankety-Blank Cheque book and Pen?

cyrusdvirus

OS119 wrote: »

i did one a week before yours - do i get a Blankety-Blank Cheque book and Pen?

Nope, my thread has generated the most interest, therefore i get them!!

Local-womanizer

haha,a 3 way battle for the thread!

Which way will it go?

cyrusdvirus

Local-womanizer wrote: »

haha,a 3 way battle for the thread!

Which way will it go?

Ok, your 2 threads may be a bit more battle hardened than mine, but bringing fresh strength to the fight could well swing it for me!! :D

iceage

Tony Killeen should get it, sure he was the last to find out. The pen that is, cos he definately won't be writing any cheques for the DF now will he.

cyrusdvirus

iceage wrote: »

Tony Killeen should get it, sure he was the last to find out. The pen that is, cos he definately won't be writing any cheques for the DF now will he.

Nice edit!! :D

OS119

iceage wrote: »

Tony Killeen should get it, sure he was the last to find out.

does anyone think he knew they were there in the first place?

and i call 'winner'. i got 31 posts on my thread - so blankety-blank cheque book and pen to me, after all, the DF aren't going to be using them anytime soon!

iceage

For the life of me i can't remember the exact term he is porported to have said when he was announced as Minister for Defence but roughly it went something like " The post was unexpected or, It wasn't the one I expected but wasn't an unpleasant one" Someone might dig it up for me.

I wonder what he'll bring to the job..first day in the job. "Lads where exactly is Chad?

OS119

iceage wrote: »

I wonder what he'll bring to the job..first day in the job. "Lads where exactly is Chad?

i take it that the new chap isn't quite one of the great intellectual and moral leaders of our age then?

any idea what his views are - assuming he has any?

Poccington

OS119 wrote: »

i take it that the new chap isn't quite one of the great intellectual and moral leaders of our age then?

any idea what his views are - assuming he has any?

Haven't heard anything about his views regarding the direction he plans to take the DF.

So I'd imagine it's more of the head in the sand stuff we've had before.

iceage

OS119 wrote: »

i take it that the new chap isn't quite one of the great intellectual and moral leaders of our age then?

any idea what his views are - assuming he has any?

My sarky comment "Where exactly is Chad" was a wee joke.

OS119

iceage wrote: »

My sarky comment "Where exactly is Chad" was a wee joke.

do you think there was an element of truth behind it?

has this guy made any comments on any aspect of foriegn or defence policy at all - or is he just lobby fodder promoted to a deptartment nobody on government cares about to ensure/reward his party loyalty?

Poccington

OS119 wrote: »

do you think there was an element of truth behind it?

has this guy made any comments on any aspect of foriegn or defence policy at all - or is he just lobby fodder promoted to a deptartment nobody on government cares about to ensure/reward his party loyalty?

Personally, I'll go for the second option.

Avgas

Seems like the DF will be grounded for a while viz PK.

However, don't become totally despondent as the world is full of hate, nutters and failed states/governments just itching to unleash violence -and that's just in Ireland!

For example...

NEW TRIPS?

Things are looking interesting regarding Venezuala and Colombia (tip; Spanish language CDs will be the accessory this year and if it happens imagine the run on jungle boots!). Probably won't happen...but you know....many wars get going by mistake/miscalculation.....

Russia is always good for violence, death and a spot of invading/intimidating the neighbours. The spot of bother with Georgia is simmering nicely fueled largely by the fact it was a 3-0 away victory to the Russkis and the Georgians with current nutty leadership might in desperation fancy a re-match. There is also Moldovia (there alway is) which could be good for a spot of highly confused ethnic hatred and general Borat misery. I have a personal bet on Belarus turning nasty sometime soon. But then I don't get out much these days.

All these latter Ruski scenarios are close to home. The stakes would be high, and any mission potentially very very nasty. Think Bosnia 1993-1995 with Russians add in for colour. The Russians may well only permit an EU or UN mission PK (if any at all) and they might favour the Nordic battlegroup over anything else......and make no mistake about it they would have a de facto veto in their own front-yard.....that is what Georgia 2008 was partly about to remind us all.....

DOES PK A DEFENCE POLICY MAKE?

More seriously... might we as a nation not take this pause in PK to reconsider our defence policy and PK in general? One of things that PK has done has been to provide a professional lifeline for the DF in getting decent gear and career opportunities for people. The extra pay got many their first house/car as well. Without PK we'd be sunk-professionally. Moreover, its boosted the standing of the country. No doubts!

However, PK has operationally acted a bit like a soother to comfort us from more critically examining our security and defence policies. Many people basically conflate the PK mission as being one and the same with a defence and security policy overall. Defence by this definition becomes merely PK and only PK, what else would you want to do, and what other kit would you ever want? Deeper and more difficult questions get avoided under the comfort blanket of 'more PK'. Do we join NATO or not? No don't answer that just do more and better PK-off to Liberia with you all! Are we really up for a common EU defence or not (and is such a defence alliance really credible anyhow) ? No, don't really answer it we'll do PK (and maybe sometimes peace enforcement) with our EU buddies....off to Chad with you, or the Congo, or whatever. But lets not talk about the D word-defence. Oh, and lets not ever have a mature and balanced discussion about what a balanced defence policy for Ireland would look like....

Maybe now that we're grounded from PK because we're broke and nothing has come up (YET!)....there might be some space for that debate?

Yeah right!

But.....if the pause on overseas/PK missions of scale continues (above Coy level-I assume their will always be a few people going out as observers?) and becomes a longer freeze..like say more than 18-24 months... questions will start to be asked by the EVIL Department of Finance/Bank-aid, and UCD economists, etc...about what are our DF actually for besides flood relief?

The muttering about letting numbers slide well below 10,000 has already refused to go away.

Just some thoughts.

Avugas?

OS119

good post.

i think UNPK has been a double-egded sword: on the good side it has taken a otherwise 'barrack' Army and placed it in an operational setting - forcing it to sharpen and harden, on the other hand it has both given (imho) a false positive in that an ability to conduct permissive environment PK has been conflated with an ability to undertake warfighting, and that the PK mission has been raised to the status of holy grail within the DF itself and the wider body politic.

effectively that the DF has had its warfighting raison d'étre quietly slipped off the table because its expensive, potentially politically difficult, and the PK role allows both the DF and the body politic to feel all 'holier that thou'.

to progress the IA needs a fairly hard, demanding PK/PE deployment that involves the largest contingent possible, and widest range of units - combat engineers, Artillery, Cav/reece, Infantry etc.. without that the Officer Corps can't gain real experience of managing and leading operational sized units in operational conditions, and the junior ranks and NCO's will get physically and mentally flabby, become barrack-centric and bored.

iceage

Interesting to see what said Minister is going to do after said contingent return from Chad. Question is, is this guy a bean counter (cull the herd) or crowd pleaser? (416's and new boots for everyone in the audience) What exactly did he do before he got this post?

I reckon hes busy with his History homework though. Will Willie be taking late night phone calls asking for pointers.

Local-womanizer

The withdrawel is not happening without critisism: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0331/chad.html

It is playing into the hands of the Chadian govt. Idriss Dieby isent exactly a huge supporter of human rights. Its leaving the refugees very exposed.