Irish in Pats

Zephyr91

I was going through the Pats brochure, and notice that you pick 2 subjects along with Education to study, dropping one of them at the end of 1st year. I was considering picking English and Geography. But my Irish isn't that great, so thought maybe I should pick Irish instead of Geo to brush up. I have basic Irish, but that's about it - as all I have learned in the last 2 years is how to memorise answers to poetry/prose/essays etc. I was wondering if taking Irish as a subject for Pats is hard, or whether you start off with the basics. What does the course involve? If I take Irish - do I still have to go to a gaeltacht for 3 weeks?

Also if anyone has any other info of experiences they'd like to share on the other subjects - please do.

TheColl

You still have to go to the Gaeltacht regardless of subject choice.

Doing Irish involves classes on literature mainly.

You'll do Irish classes as part of Education anyway. You'll do one subject (Teagasc na Gaeilge) that teaches you how to teach Irish. And you'll also have tutorials to improve your grammar and oral Irish. Everyone does these regardless of subject choice.

I did Irish and Maths in first year along with Education, and dropped Irish after first year. I really liked Maths, you do some interesting stuff compared to the LC!

So overall, I wouldn't choose Irish just to improve my level of Irish, this will happen through the other courses anyway. Choose Irish if you have an interest in it, and want to do some Irish literature.

Zephyr91

Once again, TheColl, you come through. Thanks.

I'm glad I know that...I'm not taking Irish so. It's a shame. It was my best and favourite subject for the JC - now I find myself hating it more and more everyday. For the oral exam in the LC they should make it worth way more than 25%. I can speak it well because I've been to the gaeltacht a few times.

I'm not a Maths person at all. Ha. Won't be taking that. I'll just have to take your word for it.

TheColl

Zephyr91 wrote: »

Once again, TheColl, you come through. Thanks.

I'm glad I know that...I'm not taking Irish so. It's a shame. It was my best and favourite subject for the JC - now I find myself hating it more and more everyday. For the oral exam in the LC they should make it worth way more than 25%. I can speak it well because I've been to the gaeltacht a few times.

I'm not a Maths person at all. Ha. Won't be taking that. I'll just have to take your word for it.

No prob! Best of luck with it, you'll enjoy it!

timewilltell

Zephyr91 wrote: »

Once again, TheColl, you come through. Thanks.

I'm glad I know that...I'm not taking Irish so. It's a shame. It was my best and favourite subject for the JC - now I find myself hating it more and more everyday. For the oral exam in the LC they should make it worth way more than 25%. I can speak it well because I've been to the gaeltacht a few times.

In Pats and doind Irish as one of my 2 subjects. Oh how I regret it!

Zephyr91

timewilltell wrote: »

In Pats and doind Irish as one of my 2 subjects. Oh how I regret it!

Oh really? Thanks for the heads up! Haha. Why do you regret it? Is it hard? At least you're able to drop it at the end of first year. What's your second subject? Am I asking too many questions?

spurious

Apologies if you're not training to be a primary teacher, but if you are, wouldn't Irish and Maths be a priority, particularly if you are a child's first encounter with these subjects?

Zephyr91

spurious wrote: »

Apologies if you're not training to be a primary teacher, but if you are, wouldn't Irish and Maths be a priority, particularly if you are a child's first encounter with these subjects?

Well unless primary school Irish now focuses on teaching prose/poetry/An Triail instead of the actual language and has maths mixed in with the alphabet, I think I'll be just fine. I doubt every primary school teacher is in love with maths and Irish. In fact, as English and Geography are the two most commonly selected subjects in Pats, I know that for a fact. Thanks for your concern though.

spurious

You were the one said your Irish wasn't great, but thanks for the explanation.

I just know what we see in the secondary system. It becomes clear why we see it if this is the attitude of trainee teachers.

Zephyr91

I was referring to the LC. In the mocks I got a very low C - whereas in the JC I got a B. Purely because paper 2 let me down, which is because Paper 2 is pretty much about memorising off answers to questions.

My Irish is basic, but just needs some actual brushing up on. I went to the Gaeltacht 3 summers in a row and can hold a decent conversation. As I said in my post, Irish was my fave subject up until 5th year. Nothing to do with the language, but how it's taught.

As for maths - because I hate honours maths for the LC, hopefully won't effect the way I teach it in a few years. As both subjects are mandatory for sec school, I would try my hardest for everyone to enjoy them.

TheColl

Zephyr91 wrote: »

I was referring to the LC. In the mocks I got a very low C - whereas in the JC I got a B. Purely because paper 2 let me down, which is because Paper 2 is pretty much about memorising off answers to questions.

My Irish is basic, but just needs some actual brushing up on. I went to the Gaeltacht 3 summers in a row and can hold a decent conversation. As I said in my post, Irish was my fave subject up until 5th year. Nothing to do with the language, but how it's taught.

As for maths - because I hate honours maths for the LC, hopefully won't effect the way I teach it in a few years. As both subjects are mandatory for sec school, I would try my hardest for everyone to enjoy them.

Yeh don't worry about this! Plenty of my colleagues hated maths in school themselves but love teaching it. You'll find that the way it is taught in primary school is very different to secondary school, and for me it 's now very different to when i was in primary school (not too long ago!!).

TheColl

spurious wrote: »

You were the one said your Irish wasn't great, but thanks for the explanation.

I just know what we see in the secondary system. It becomes clear why we see it if this is the attitude of trainee teachers.

What is it you see in the secondary system?

spurious

TheColl wrote: »

What is it you see in the secondary system?

Children coming in with very, very low standards in maths skills and a really poor attitude to Irish - from certain feeder schools.

They are the only subject areas about which a child will say 'I can't do' or 'I don't like' on their first day at second level. A huge amount depends on the teacher(s) they have had. We see children within the special needs spectrum who have better skills than those outside it, depending on what teacher they have had.

If they come in with such negative attitudes, it is very hard to turn them around.

timewilltell

Zephyr91 wrote: »

Oh really? Thanks for the heads up! Haha. Why do you regret it? Is it hard? At least you're able to drop it at the end of first year. What's your second subject? Am I asking too many questions?

Well to be honest the course IS kinda interesting. Last semester we did a thriller novel as Gaeilge, and did some short stories, you know, the bealoidis ones. We also studied the media. Sadly lazy bones here went to about 5 lectures all semester..NOT good idea!! bUT THIS TERM WE'RE STUDYING IRISH SHORT FILM, Padraig Pearse and Caoineadh Airt Ui Laoghire (Snooze fest).

So I kinda do regret talking Irish, as while it is interesting I know i would have preferred Religion! Irish isn't woefully hard but unless your passionate give it a miss beacuse you will still be doing it throughout the year anyways I do English as a second!

Zephyr91

timewilltell wrote: »

Well to be honest the course IS kinda interesting. Last semester we did a thriller novel as Gaeilge, and did some short stories, you know, the bealoidis ones. We also studied the media. Sadly lazy bones here went to about 5 lectures all semester..NOT good idea!! bUT THIS TERM WE'RE STUDYING IRISH SHORT FILM, Padraig Pearse and Caoineadh Airt Ui Laoghire (Snooze fest).

So I kinda do regret talking Irish, as while it is interesting I know i would have preferred Religion! Irish isn't woefully hard but unless your passionate give it a miss beacuse you will still be doing it throughout the year anyways I do English as a second!

Religion eh? Hmm, I'm not particularly a religious person. I think I'd pick either English, Geography, history, bioscience. They all sound really interesting ...

Thanks for the info!

timewilltell

English is AMAZING. Honestly...
Geography seems tough enough, and bioscience is basically useless!

rahrah

spurious wrote: »

Children coming in with very, very low standards in maths skills and a really poor attitude to Irish - from certain feeder schools.

They are the only subject areas about which a child will say 'I can't do' or 'I don't like' on their first day at second level. A huge amount depends on the teacher(s) they have had. We see children within the special needs spectrum who have better skills than those outside it, depending on what teacher they have had.

If they come in with such negative attitudes, it is very hard to turn them around.

Imagine a secondary school educator blaming someone else for their own short-comings. :eek:

Powerhouse

rahrah wrote: »

Imagine a secondary school educator blaming someone else for their own short-comings. :eek:

Indeed. Except in this case a child with a deplorable standard and poor attitude to certain subjects on day one of secondary school is hardly the product of a "secondary school educator's short-comings". If blame is to be apportioned at least let it lie with the appropriate sector. Perish the thought I know but in fairness.................

spurious

I'm lucky enough not to teach in either subject area, but there is something very wrong when children come out from a primary system telling you they 'cannot do' one particular subject (and ONLY that subject).

Find it hard, maybe even 'no good at', but 'cannot do'? At 12?

kraggy

@OP

I would highly recommend doing Geography in Pat's. Some interesting stuff.

I did Maths as well but dropped it after 1st year. Found it very hard.

@ Spurious

The 2 subjects that one chooses e.g. like I did maths and geog, have absolutely nothing to do with primary teaching. They are studied like arts subjects with no reference whatsoever to teaching children. You are even in class with those studying the subjects for the BA.

This is made even stranger by the fact that 40% of your degree marks come from these academic/non-teaching-related subjects.

I think it's ridiculous and some of the main heads in the college have been looking to change it.

At the end of the day, you're training to be a teacher.

TheColl

spurious wrote: »

I'm lucky enough not to teach in either subject area, but there is something very wrong when children come out from a primary system telling you they 'cannot do' one particular subject (and ONLY that subject).

Find it hard, maybe even 'no good at', but 'cannot do'? At 12?

I agree that kids at 12 saying they 'cannot do' a certain subject is awful. But I'm sure you find that these kids are in the minority. Also, I remember myself starting secondary school and being quite intimidated at the thought of doing secondary school work, even though I was a very high achieving primary student (if i may say so myself!). Once I settled in and had the right kind of teacher I got on fine. I'm sure that is also the case for a lot of these kids, particularly if they are not the highest achievers to begin with.

dambarude

I'm training to be a primary teacher atm (though not in Pat's).

I have to say that Spurious is definitely touching on the truth here. Teacher's attitudes and abilities certainly impinge on the children they are teaching. Hatred of Irish in particular seems to be quite widespread in my year, which doesn't bode well for its teaching in the future (I could rant on about this for hours...). A teacher's enthusiasm (or lack there of, as the case may be) is no doubt passed on.

All that said, most teachers (or prospective teachers) will try and brush up on the areas of the curriculum they are weakest at, and will hopefully not let that subject be seen as the 'boring' one, or the useless one when they are teaching.

I know from personal experience the effect that primary school teaching when you transition into secondary. I had very poor Irish compared to my counterparts from other feeder schools, and it showed. Thankfully I improved quite drastically, but it required work. Irish is now my favourite subject, but it wouldn't have been when I started in secondary school, I really struggled with it.

Regarding the Arts subjects versus education subjects, everyone's right in saying that you don't learn about the teaching of those particular subjects by choosing them. But you definitely do learn more about them, and appreciate them better. Someone who chooses Gaeilge as their academic/arts subject will more than likely be better at it on graduation than one who doesn't.

araic88

My take on academic subjects in Pats:
(I only finished last year but I suppose things could have changed since!)

French is tough, classes are small and they make you work very hard, but it's the only subject that gives you a degree in that subject too. That was enough for me to take it on in first year not enough to keep it on
Bioscience is the only subject that is ONLY offered to first years so it's a risk taking it incase you hate the other subject! Also I've heard it's very boring :cool:
Religion, Geography, History all seemed okay from what I heard. Music was quite demanding I think. Actually Religion seemed to be more interesting than I'd have thought - I didn't do it but people seemed to like it, I think it was more world religions than Catholicism.
English seemed good, a lot of people liked that, there was quite a lot of choice I believe.
I did Gaeilge and I didn't ENJOY it per se, but it really wasn't very difficult. Well actually the subject matter/level of Irish used by lecturers was high, but I soon learned (along with many others) that at the end of every semester the various lecturers gave huge hints as to what would come up in exams, so as you can imagine attendance was perfect on the last day and ...not great otherwise!! It's a hard subject to do REALLY well on, but quite easy to do pretty well. I somehow got a 2:1 after shameful attendance in 3rd year.
And I don't care who gets on their sassy horse about me being allowed teach Irish to kids after neglecting my own Irish studies in college - academic subjects are a joke in Pats and have very little to no benefit on teaching. In fact, if I had to choose my two academic subjects again, I'd pick English and Irish because when you do those some of the 'professional' courses (i.e. for teaching) are combined so it makes for an easier workload!
I loved Irish in primary school, hated it in secondary school and learned nothing in college even after picking it to try and improve, but I still promote it and love teaching it.

Zephyr91

Thanks, araic, that was a very helpful post.

araic88

Zephyr91 wrote: »

Thanks, araic, that was a very helpful post.

No probs, oh and the best way I found to improve Irish was to hang out in the 'Seomra Caidreamh'. It's a room where you "have" to speak Irish....and there is a constant supply of free tea & biscuits To be honest I was too afraid to go in til third year and then discovered how many mcvities I had missed out on There are a few gaeltacht peeps who probably hate having to listen to us mumble and sputter out terrible Irish but most people are in the same boat as you (and as I was!) and it's all in good fun so don't worry about picking Irish if you'd like to do it, and either way drag some new friends to the seomra caidreamh before oral time