What criteria is needed to force a referendum

Is mise le key

Hi all,

Thought this might be the place to get such an answer,

My blood is boiling at the prospect of more billions being borrowed on the irish peoples backs to be poured into failed private companys soon to be state owned failed companys.
Does our government have the ultimate right to just do as they see fit with the nations finances without having to have it justified by its people.
What criteria are needed before a referendum can be called as i think the majority of people would object to this act of.....treason.....would that be the correct word to use, a crime against this state & its people.

Why cant the private companys that are the banks that borrow money on the markets simply have to face their international creditors to pay the consequences for losing the money they borrowed??? Is that not how it works.....well it seems to be for the ordinary loan borrower anyway.

Why cant the private companys that borrowed money to buy land to develop which is now after losing its value have to face their creditors (our banks) & pay the consequences for losing the money they borrowed??? Is that not how it works.....it seems to be for all the people who's property is now in negative equity.

So again my question is......

What criteria is needed to force a referendum?

sceptre

Is mise le key wrote: »

So again my question is......

What criteria is needed to force a referendum?

I'm ignoring everything but this as assuming you want an answer to this, your own rationale isn't relevant to the question and only leads down a side-discussion and there are threads on your views on NAMA etc. On the upside of this, what I type below is a definitive answer to your actual question.:)

There are two types of referendum in Ireland under the constitution: a referendum to amend the constitution with which we're all pretty familiar and a non-amending or "ordinary" referendum, with which people are less familiar.

For a referendum to amend the constitution, a bill is passed by both houses of the Oireachtas, passed to the people for referendum and signed by the president if the proposal is passed at referendum. This procedure has been used a large number of times.

For a non-amending referendum (legally called an "ordinary referendum"), a joint petition must be presented to the president by a majority of the members of the Seanad and at least a third of the members of the Dáil. Following the receipt of the petition from Oireachtas members and a consultation with the Council of State, the president declares that the issue is a matter of such national importance that it can only be decided by reference to the people. At that point, the president does not sign it unless it is passed by the people at referendum within 18 months or passed by the Dáil after a general election and within 18 months. This procedure has never been used.

Both procedures are explained pretty well here.

There was an old procedure present in the 1922 constitution by which a referendum could be forced by a popular initiative in the form of a petition requiring 50,000 signatures to refer it to the Oireachtas and 75,000 signatures to force a referendum after two years if not dealt with by the Oireachtas. This procedure wasn't enacted in ordinary legislation and was later dumped by the Oireachtas who had the power to amend the constitution. There is no such provision in the 1937 document which is currently in force.

Hence, what you're asking about would require a majority of Seanad members and no less than a third of Dáil members to petition the president to refer a question to the people and then for the president to decide it should be, after consulting with the Council of State.

Is mise le key

sceptre wrote: »

I'm ignoring everything but this as assuming you want an answer to this, your own rationale isn't relevant to the question and only leads down a side-discussion and there are threads on your views on NAMA etc. On the upside of this, what I type below is a definitive answer to your actual question.:)

.

I take your point, just though a little context of why i was asking wasnt any harm. Thank you for the information which is very clear.

gleep

So where to start a petition then? Boards ?

Would we get, say 50k names? In light of the publishing of the two banking inquiries today, I think a petition to have the government dissolved and a GE called would be supported. Never mind all the other crap we've had to put up with.

Liam Byrne

gleep wrote: »

So where to start a petition then? Boards ?

Would we get, say 50k names? In light of the publishing of the two banking inquiries today, I think a petition to have the government dissolved and a GE called would be supported. Never mind all the other crap we've had to put up with.

Doesn't look like it would make a damn bit of difference.....

sceptre wrote: »

There is no such provision in the 1937 document which is currently in force.

But if anyone knows of any way, then speak up now!

Eliot Rosewater

gleep wrote: »

So where to start a petition then? Boards?

Petitions aren't allowed, as per the charter.

Maybe try politics.ie, anything goes there. Literally anything.

Nijmegen

You could get dail backing, but the senate is rigged to give the government a majority.

I'd sign such a petition - and help get it going - but I can see our political class ignoring it.

They have a proven ability to avoid doing the right thing when they have a legal getout.

gleep

I'm sure anything like this would be ignored, turkey's don't vote for xmas and all that, especially incompetent cute hoor turkeys.

But I'd really, really like to give it a shot. After all, I think 100k+ signed a petition on Facebook to have the Ireland-France game replayed!

So, I'm thinking a simple wordpress blog, calling on the government to listen to the electorate, do the decent thing, stand down and call a general election immediately.

If anyone would like to help out please post below and keep the thread going!

Just did a search and www.petitionireland.com is available, might get it, anyone else have an idea for site name? Answers on a postcard!

Stab*City

sign me up!!

Liam Byrne

Count me in for sure!

P. Breathnach

Stab*City wrote: »

sign me up!!

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Count me in for sure!

It's not even clear what you are signing up for. Perhaps an exercise in group therapy.

Liam Byrne

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It's not even clear what you are signing up for. Perhaps an exercise in group therapy.

Well I was signing up for a campaign to reinstate democracy and hold a referendum and general election as soon as possible.

With FF denying the by-elections and delaying the no-confidence vote because some of them are conveniently dossing off on early holidays, they are proving themselves to be as undemocratic as they come!

Stab*City

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It's not even clear what you are signing up for. Perhaps an exercise in group therapy.

gleep wrote: »

I think a petition to have the government dissolved and a GE called would be supported. Never mind all the other crap we've had to put up with.

No an excercise in reading.

Grumpypants

Nothing like an online petition to get things done. Remember Wispa's ?

gleep

Has anyone got any other ideas on a website name? I looked at blacknight last night and you can buy the domain and hosting there.
I want to create a blog where people simply add their name, would this constitute a petition? Assuming they know what they are signing!:D

I reckon that, sadly, simply going around the dole queues asking people to sign up on an iphone, you could get 200k names:mad:

Coillte_Bhoy

gleep wrote: »

I'm sure anything like this would be ignored, turkey's don't vote for xmas and all that, especially incompetent cute hoor turkeys.

But I'd really, really like to give it a shot. After all, I think 100k+ signed a petition on Facebook to have the Ireland-France game replayed!

So, I'm thinking a simple wordpress blog, calling on the government to listen to the electorate, do the decent thing, stand down and call a general election immediately.

If anyone would like to help out please post below and keep the thread going!

Just did a search and www.petitionireland.com is available, might get it, anyone else have an idea for site name? Answers on a postcard!

Fair play to you for your enthusiasm but i think your pi$$ing in the wind. And Facebook petitions and camaigns dont mean a thing. It's so easy to click a support button etc. God knows how many campaigns ive supported without givivng it any thought. As regards the France game i was at that game and go to most Irish games but didnt sign that ridiculous page and neither did most serious football fans that i know. Anyway good luck with your campaign