User group slams eircom broadband offer

bealtine

http://www.businessworld.ie/livenews.htm?a=2577066;s=rollingnews.htm

User group slams eircom broadband offer

Monday, March 29 14:27:43

This morning's announcement of the roll-out of "Next Generation Broadband from eircom is nothing of the sort and is merely "window dressing" for a hike in charges, according to Internet consumer pressure group, Ireland Offline, today.

The group points out that the term "next generation" is generally taken to mean super-high-speed broadband delivered through fibre cables.

They say that eircom's use of the term is "marketing speak" and does not materially change the speed that their customers will receive broadband.

Starting in Dublin, eircom is promising speeds of up to 8MB to all subscribers in which they claim to have also finally addressed the contention issue (which they call congestion).

"What is not in the headlines is the subtle but important change from a speed based model to a usage based model of charging," Ireland Offline said.

"Let us be clear on this announcement, this is neither Next Generation anything nor will 8 MB be delivered to the vast majority of hapless consumers.While IrelandOffline welcome the attention to the important issue of contention we feel this announcement is nothing more than window dressing."

"This is yet another attack on the hard pressed telecommunications consumers of Ireland. Not only do they have to endure the highest line-rental on the planet they now have to endure a E2 charge for each Gigabyte they go over their paltry caps. For instance the "Broadband Basic" has a minuscule 10GB cap barely enough for the average "tech savy" family. In reality this package will cost E50 for all but the lightest users. That's E50 + line rental making the total E75.36 per month. This is hardly a giant leap forward it's more like a gigantic leap into the dark past and into your wallet."

bealtine

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0329/breaking27.html

Eircom unveils 'next-generation' broadband

CIARA O'BRIEN

Eircom has unveiled its next-generation high-speed internet network which will give customers lines speeds of up to 8MB.

The telecoms company says the broadband packages, which will be available to both business and consumers, will be uncongested, enabling Eircom to guarantee more consistent speeds and allow consumers to view higher bandwidth content, such as streaming video or cloud computing.

Instead of offering different line speeds, Eircom's entry level product will now be offered at the higher speed 8MB line, and instead users will pay according to a usage cap of 10GB, 30GB and an unlimited package. Going over the limits imposed by the packages will result in a charge per gigabyte of €2, with Eirocm claiming the monthly charge will be capped at €49.99.

Existing customers will be upgraded to the 8MB line free of charge, Eircom said.

The service is initially available in Dublin, but Eircom said it would roll out the service to major urban areas throughout the country by the end of 2010.

Chief executive of Eircom Paul Donovan said the broadband service was a demonstration of the company's alignment with the national economic agenda.

"Improved broadband performance is critical for Ireland to realise its objectives as a smart economy," he said.

However, the company's move has been criticised by lobby group Ireland Offline, which said the move from a speed-based model of charging to usage metering was "price gouging" and said the announcement was merely "window dressing".

"The only thing 'Next Generation' about this product is the charging policy. This is a 200 per cent increase on the average user’s bill for those who can least afford it," the group said in a statement on its website.

"This is yet another attack on the hard pressed telecommunications consumers of Ireland."

bealtine

http://www.insideireland.ie/index.cfm/section/news/ext/eircombroadband003/category/1091

Eircom’s latest Next Generation Broadband (NGB) scheme has been labelled “window dressing” by pressure group IrelandOffline.

The telecoms firm's latest package promises speeds of up to 8Mb and congestion free broadband access to all users.

But IrelandOffline, a voluntary organisation consisting of home and business internet users, have denounced Eircom’s latest announcement as mere “price gouging.”

“What is not in the headlines is the subtle but important change from a speed based model to a usage based model of charging,” the group said.

“Let us be clear on this announcement; this is neither Next Generation anything, nor will 8MB be delivered to the vast majority of hapless consumers.

“The phrase 'Next Generation' alludes to the next generation of broadband products usually delivered by fibre; this most certainly is not anything like that."

The group have criticised the network’s announcement on Monday morning as “marketing speak” and claim that NGB will lead to nothing more than a 200% increase on the average user’s bill.

“Not only do they have to endure the highest line-rental on the planet, they now have to endure a €2 charge for each gigabyte they go over their paltry caps.

“For instance the 'Broadband Basic' has a minuscule 10GB cap barely enough for the average 'tech savy' family.”

IrelandOffline claim Eircom’s package will cost €50 “for all but the lightest users.”

According to the group's calculations, additional line rental makes the new package a total of €75.36 per month.

“This is hardly a giant leap forward; it's more like a gigantic leap into the dark past and into your wallet,” IrelandOffline said.

Sponge Bob

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0329/breaking27.html

Eircom has unveiled its next-generation high-speed internet network which will give customers lines speeds of up to 8MB.
The telecoms company says the broadband packages, which will be available to both business and consumers, will be uncongested, enabling Eircom to guarantee more consistent speeds and allow consumers to view higher bandwidth content, such as streaming video or cloud computing.
However, the company's move has been criticised by lobby group Ireland Offline, which said while it welcomed Eircom's addressing of the contention issue, the network wasn't "next generation".
Instead of offering different line speeds, Eircom's entry level product will now be offered at the higher speed 8MB line, and users will instead pay according to a usage cap of 10GB, 30GB and an unlimited package. The limit includes both upload and download usage.
Going over the limits imposed by the packages will result in a charge per gigabyte of €2, with Eircom claiming the monthly charge will be capped at €49.99.

watty

So how many lines can get 8Mbps?

Take in to account:
basic adsl vs newer ADSL2+ C.O.
length of line: Average length about 3km, About 5Mbps to 8 Mbps on ADSL2+ and 2 to 3Mbps on ADSL?
Quality of line
Number of dsl users in multipair (cross talk reduces speed)

Maybe 30% to 40% can get 8Mbps? Raising fewer false expectations than 20Mbps+ which maybe only 10% can get.

Then again only 2/3rds of people actually have a phone line.

Sponge Bob

A good time was had by all at the singsong :eek:

http://www.eircom.net/broadband/crystalSwing

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8bJeZxQlKE

bk

As I've said over on the broadband forum, this is nothing but a marketing smoke screen by Eircom to move people to usage based pricing so that they can milk more money from unsuspecting users at €2 per GB when they go over the 10GB cap.

Nothing more, nothing less. This doesn't even involve Eircom laying any new fibre or even upgrading to ADSL2+, they are simply moving people around VLAN's on the backhaul in areas that probably had spare capacity anyway.

lucernarian

watty wrote: »

So how many lines can get 8Mbps?

Take in to account:
basic adsl vs newer ADSL2+ C.O.
length of line: Average length about 3km, About 5Mbps to 8 Mbps on ADSL2+ and 2 to 3Mbps on ADSL?
Quality of line
Number of dsl users in multipair (cross talk reduces speed)

Maybe 30% to 40% can get 8Mbps? Raising fewer false expectations than 20Mbps+ which maybe only 10% can get.

Then again only 2/3rds of people actually have a phone line.

Are you sure about that?? Most lines up to about 4 km can manage 3 mbps. Some manage it at 4.5km. An estate in Drogheda which shares a 400 pair cable for most of the 4.5km distance, can still receive an unreliable 3 mbps or a reliable 2.5 mbps. I've pointed out that inaccuracy to you before on a thread in this forum.

Yeah I agree, this is simply a way for eircom to pick up a handy few quid off people who will blame their kids/viruses/youtube for the bill increase. Also, I'm really not looking forward to all the reliability issues people will have when their lines are maxed out... And I sincerely hope eircom will not fix every faulty line at 160/128 as they've done in the past...

useruser

watty wrote: »

So how many lines can get 8Mbps?

Take in to account:
basic adsl vs newer ADSL2+ C.O.
length of line: Average length about 3km, About 5Mbps to 8 Mbps on ADSL2+ and 2 to 3Mbps on ADSL?
Quality of line
Number of dsl users in multipair (cross talk reduces speed)

Maybe 30% to 40% can get 8Mbps? Raising fewer false expectations than 20Mbps+ which maybe only 10% can get.

Then again only 2/3rds of people actually have a phone line.

I have seen a figure of 2.7km quoted as average loop length for the eircom network. However, it is not clear whether this is the entire network which obviously has a lot of loops of 8, 9, 10km and longer which will skew this average. What I believe you should be examining is the % of lines within a city/suburban area that will be able to get full line rate and I imagine this will be far higher. You could then do a rough breakdown of the % of population that will have access to this higher speed product. If anyone has accurate figures it would be interesting to see them.

Generally speaking I think this is a positive move by eircom, it simplifies their ridiculously convoluted product pricing (which I agree is still far too high), ups the broadband game a little in Ireland and hopefully will spur eircoms' competitors into action.

watty

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Are you sure about that?? Most lines up to about 4 km can manage 3 mbps. Some manage it at 4.5km. An estate in Drogheda which shares a 400 pair cable for most of the 4.5km distance, can still receive an unreliable 3 mbps or a reliable 2.5 mbps. I've pointed out that inaccuracy to you before on a thread in this forum.

Yeah I agree, this is simply a way for eircom to pick up a handy few quid off people who will blame their kids/viruses/youtube for the bill increase. Also, I'm really not looking forward to all the reliability issues people will have when their lines are maxed out... And I sincerely hope eircom will not fix every faulty line at 160/128 as they've done in the past...

I put a question mark... There are many variables. My speculation is not far different to what you quote.

The answer is that only really eircom has full information to judge how many can get 8Mbps. I doubt the majority can. You say 4.5kms is a reliable 2.5Mbps. That proves this is nothing about providing universal NGN and/or universal 8Mbps (which it is implied in the marketing). It's about applying new caps and pricing and lumping all those that can only get 1Mbps, or only want 1Mbps with 8Mbps prices.

They still have not addressed line rental. I'd be impressed if instead the announcement had been that due to NGN backhaul rollouts that contention will reduce and we will cut line rental to €10.

Line Rental needs to be €10.

bealtine

watty wrote: »

Line Rental needs to be €10.

Even at €10 eircom broadband would still be expensive. The unlimited 8MBs "NGB" version would then cost €39.82 + €10. Nearly twice as much as the 5MB offering from UPC. The 10G capped version would be €25 + €10.

Still a reduction in line rental would surely induce more people to have phone lines.

watty

If it's "really" uncontended and unlimited, then it's not bad value at

The unlimited 8MBs "NGB" version would then cost €39.82 + €10.

Isn't the UPC packge limited to 120G or so?

Though a majority would be fine on 30G.

Packaged do need to clearly show typical speed and real limits of use, not magical "up to" or "unlimiteds" that are clear as mud "FUP".

mrskinner

Is the cap at 30 GB for ngb next generation broadband basic?

mrskinner

Here it is

• No Congestion Next Generation Broadband
• Download speeds of up to 8Mb
• Usage allowance of 30GB
• Line Rental included

bealtine

mrskinner wrote: »

Is the cap at 30 GB for ngb next generation broadband basic?

No the 30G cap is on the "Broadband regular" package the middle offering from eircom. This package costs €51.78 in a bundle or
€29.99 + line rental

mrskinner

Is there any difference in these 2?



1 Eircom broadband chatter bundle 51.87

2 Eircom new generation broadband regular same price.

The cap is 30 on both and I would not use this much.

All advice welcomed.

At the moment I am trying out O2 mobile broadband and it is fine. 20 euros per month.

I was with UTV but I did not trust them and left.

bealtine

mrskinner wrote: »

Is there any difference in these 2?



1 Eircom broadband chatter bundle 51.87

2 Eircom new generation broadband regular same price.

The cap is 30 on both and I would not use this much.

One (chatter) has bundled call minutes and the other package doesn't.
Apart form that they are both identical.

mrskinner

This is the package for talktime chatter and 3mb broadband

• Up to 3Mb broadband for €18.93 included
• FREE national & Local calls off-peak
• 30 FREE any network mobile minutes off-peak

eircom Next Generation Broadband Regular & eircom talktime chatter


What is NGB?

• No congestion up to 8Mb NGB for €18.93 included
• FREE national & Local calls off-peak
• 30 FREE any network mobile minutes off-peak

Bealtine? They are identical?

Sponge Bob

eircom have a nominal price for BB as part of a bundle and the excess charges kick in in Dublin if you exceed the caps associated with these nominal prices.

In Dublin most eircom customers are now in a bundle of 3mbit, typically. but many are in 1mbit bundles. These guys are in for a nasty shock!!! Thank feck this expensive old NGB crap is being tried out in Dublin first

They are as follows.

1. 1mbit costs as little as €8.97 and you can be surcharged up to €41.02 in a month or 460%.
2. 3mbit costs as little as €13.94 and you can be surcharged up to €36.05 in a month or 260%
3. 7mbit costs as little as €23.90 and you can be surcharged up to €26.09 in a month or 110%

All surcharges calculated from eircoms new packages clearly detailed here.

http://www.eircom.net/broadband/products/

cgarvey

mrskinner wrote: »

Bealtine? They are identical?

They differ in the broadband speeds, and the fact that the new product doesn't have contention (at the exchange) which will be a very noticeable improvement.

bealtine

[QUOTE=mrskinner;



Bealtine? They are identical?[/QUOTE]

Apples and fish.

The "Next generation" products will all be 8Mbs regardless of "package" or bundle. Some people will get the full 8 but most will not but the package will still be 8Mbs.
These "NG" products are being released in Dublin as of now and slowly across the country as time goes on.
As has been pointed out contention has allegedly been addressed so most people should see full speeds (for their lines) being achieved during peak times.