Going out with a muslim man??

LegacyUser

Hi everyone,

I'm a catholic irish girl. I don't practice my religion but my parents do. Recently I've become close to a Pakistani muslim guy who is in my college course. We text daily, we've been on dates but never kissed and he's told me he likes me. I like him too + I've told my friends.

They are really unsupportive and have "warned me off". They arent racist but they said that muslims have alot of rules and that their form of dating is different to an irish guys. One of my friends said that muslim guys are out looking for a wife. I know my parents also would not be happy. They arent racist, just old fashioned.

As I've said I do really like him but I don't know what to expect dating a muslim? and is it true they are looking for wives?

Neyite

to generalise about all muslims is a bit like saying 'all christian'.

like a lot of religions, there can be varying degrees of how closely they follow their faith. he might be from a quite liberal background or the exact opposite.

arranged marraiges can be common enough with muslims/pakistani people, so its a possibility that he might be betrothed to a girl in his community already, its also possible that he would face the same reaction bringing home a catholic girl, as you would a muslim.

the only person who can tell you the 'rules' for dating in Islam really is this guy you are seeing.

why not post this in the Religion & Spirituality - Islam forum, you might get some useful information about his religion there.

LegacyUser

Hi OP, I was with a pakistani muslim guy too so will tell you how it is from my perspective.

This guy was a lovely guy and when we first got together we had a lot of conversations about me being a catholic and him being muslim. He swore he wouldn't try to convert me. But guess what...after only a month or so he started to say he could never marry me because I wasn't muslim and then came the CONSTANT conversations about religion, telling me things like I was dressing too nicely and sending me emails about women who converted. Like I said, lovely guy but got too much in the end. IMO, a muslim's religion is the most important thing in their life and everything resolves around it. My female muslim friend warned me off going out with him (she said he would wreck my head in the end and he'd start getting controlling) but I thought I'd be different but I wasn't.

Like I said this is only my opinion so I can't speak for anyone else.

S23

To be honest, while checking out the spirituality forum may help with general info on Muslim culture etc..., your best bet is just going with the flow and finding from the source (this lad) what he's looking for or about in general.

I know quite a few muslims from playing cricket. There are lots of muslims at our club. Some of them are devout and go through a lot of intricate and drawn out religious practices from day to day and also surrounding religious events in their calendar like ramadan etc..

However, there are a few lads that are 'muslim' by default the same way a lot of people here in Ireland are 'catholic' by default. Some of them aren't religious in the slightest and go out drinking ( a huge NO NO with some muslims) and dating etc.. like the rest of us do.

The only person who can tell you if his religion is likely to be a big factor in any relationship you two may have is the lad himself

LegacyUser

Neyite wrote: »

to generalise about all muslims is a bit like saying 'all christian'.

like a lot of religions, there can be varying degrees of how closely they follow their faith. he might be from a quite liberal background or the exact opposite.

arranged marraiges can be common enough with muslims/pakistani people, so its a possibility that he might be betrothed to a girl in his community already, its also possible that he would face the same reaction bringing home a catholic girl, as you would a muslim.

the only person who can tell you the 'rules' for dating in Islam really is this guy you are seeing.

why not post this in the Religion & Spirituality - Islam forum, you might get some useful information about his religion there.

While i agree with you for the part he may be already betrothed and the more than likely disapproval of their son dating non Pakistani and non Muslim.
But it is most definitely nothing even close to any other religion(with Pakistani Muslims Arab Muslims and Asian Muslims) With majority you can definitely generalise.
They don't care who their son sows wild oaths with.
Pakistani Muslims majority of them are dedicated followers and may not be when younger but get more so when older.
Is there really a point in dating him.If you did date him and stay with him you would have to change your religion.You would not be allowed to go out with your friends dancing etc..
Its a very controlled world for women.Seriously not just a religion you are dating its a culture and the whole family and a whole different controlled not friendly to women culture.
I am not taking away from your bf at all i am sure a lovely person.
A few people i know have married Pakistani Muslims but they are very tight nit community and they follow parents rules almost to the letter.These women have changed their religion and whole lives.They do not even act Irish anymore.
Now there is exceptions to the rulesbut they are in their minority.Religion and their family come first.
If you see programs showing their culture its a very scary one.Girls are forced into marriage and disowned if they don't so as told.
I would quite honestly play it by ear.
Not for him just been a Muslim while that is whole different world when from countries such as Pakistan.But because his culture is absolutely alien to ours.


Just one thing can i warn you off of is.If you date him do not sleep with him.I am not implying you would but seriously if you infact get to that stage dont do it.
But it really depends on how westernised he is also.

Just play it by ear and see how you get on.But hold on to who you are and keep your friends and going out with them etc..
Take care of yourself

LegacyUser

S23 wrote: »

To be honest, while checking out the spirituality forum may help with general info on Muslim culture etc..., your best bet is just going with the flow and finding from the source (this lad) what he's looking for or about in general.

I know quite a few muslims from playing cricket. There are lots of muslims at our club. Some of them are devout and go through a lot of intricate and drawn out religious practices from day to day and also surrounding religious events in their calendar like ramadan etc..

However, there are a few lads that are 'muslim' by default the same way a lot of people here in Ireland are 'catholic' by default. Some of them aren't religious in the slightest and go out drinking ( a huge NO NO with some muslims) and dating etc.. like the rest of us do.

The only person who can tell you if his religion is likely to be a big factor in any relationship you two may have is the lad himself

Different story behind closed doors and when they find their religion again.ALot of my Muslim friends did all of above.And when they got married found Islam again devoutly when it came to their wives.

LegacyUser

keep him friend and be strong on your own view about things, don't try to change ur point of view to please him.

talk with him openly abt different religion and dating, see how he is.

no rush into anything. be friend and observe more before u give yourself to others.

there is a true story called 'not without my daughter'. you can read it.

LegacyUser

I have to say with all my being stay away.

Heres why

Muslims do not date. This leaves 2 senarios. 1. Hes using you fior his own ends because he does not respect you but fancies having a bit of fun before he finds a nice Muslim girl to marry . Or 2. Hes serious about you. In which case Id tread very carefully if I were you.

You will never ever understand what it means to be a muslim. Its not like the ala carte catholicism that we have going on here today. It is a full and complete way of life to those who follow on a scale that we as a nation will never understand again. Being a Muslim means that your entire life is dedicated to God and practising what is written in the book. It’s a very admirable way to live and I have great respect for the community, but it is not for young girls like yourself to be getting involved in. You will never be a true friend to him, because he cannot have you as a close friend due to the fact that you are not Muslim. Theres no point to persue friendship that you will not be able to maintain in a manner that you are used to as an Irish person interacting with her own faith all the time.

Ive seen good guys and bad guys, cool and the gang all the way through - but once they get married, its all the same road they go down. It is their job to protect you and love you and therefore their duty to bring you to the one true faith, otherwise you’ll be roasting in the fires of hell for all eternity and as your husband, he is bound to save you. .

As I say, Ive met Muslims and know Muslims that I have great respect for and admire, but they are different to us and that’s the full stop point.

The Not Without My Daughter reference is dragged up so much on the net in ref to relationship questions. It’s a good job an Irish father never abused his wife. We wouldn’t be able to throw our stones then. :P

LegacyUser

I can understand your F&F warning you off.

Unfortunately every sterotype is based on a grain of truth. When a Irish girl meets a muslim guy it seems to start out fine, he may seem to embrace Western ways. The trouble seems to start after the marriage when the man seems to change and become much more traditional in his outlook and expects the woman to start behaving like a muslim.

Anyway, people are warning you for a reason.

LegacyUser

Hi OP. There are different types of muslims, so it depends on whether he's a sunni or shiite on how liberal he is. I think it's important to remember though, you're still young and in college its not like your looking to settle down or anything so why not just go for it and live a little. I went out with a girl from a diifferent religion a few years ago and we had a lot of fun. Yes, inevitably we eventually split up but it was fun while it lasted. I say go for it!!

LegacyUser

Hi OP

I can tell you as a muslim myself that in Islam a muslim man can marry a woman of any faith. I won't deny that there is preference for the woman to convert but its not a necessity. His approach though seems too forward and direct. My mother was catholic and she didn't convert. Generally, there are relationships where both people can come from different faiths. Do try to just keep an open mind about these things though as in don't close off your mind to anything to do with Islam. We firmly believe that converting to Islam should definitely not be a forced or imposed affair but the idea is just to explain a little about it and leave it up to the person to convert. Forcing it upon people is against Islamic beliefs.

Unfortunately, as I have experienced this myself, his parents may feel angry or upset and in some cases, may reject him if he were to get seriously involved with you (with you as a catholic). I don't know how this thinking developed but its not in tune with Islamic beliefs. It does depend on his parental background, some parents are ok with the idea of their son getting involved with a woman of X faith while others are very strict about the woman being a muslim. As an example, my dad would want me to be involved with a muslim to begin with and although my view would differ, I'm not doing anything wrong as a muslim.

I will say though that devout muslims will never get involved in a relationship in the same ways as it normally would happen between other people. Similar to devout christians, there is no sex before marriage. Depending on how liberal he is, intimacy can vary. Don't think of it being that he will be cold with you or anything but you can try to imagine that the relationship would seem more like being close friends. Another thing to mention, I'm not Pakistani so I couldn't really comment but I would imagine that they would be more stringent about these things but culturally in the region, its quite rare to have such a thing as boyfriend/girlfriend. The way relationships develop there is if the guy and the girl each acknowledge that they like each other, the next step is that the guy approaches the girl's father to ask her hand in marriage. Depending on the girl's parents decision, they would either accept or reject the guy. Before any confusion develops about this, this would obviously be defined as the engagement period but engagement there is the equivalent to the boyfriend/girlfriend phase here. Engagements breaking off aren't anything uncommon. The only major difference ofcourse is that a step has been skipped. Whereas engagement here would be defined as marriage is almost definite. Its important to note though that in the case where both people are very happy in the relationship, marriage is something which should be considered seriously.

Like S23, muslims aren't necessarily all the same in how closely linked they are to their faith. My views would be more liberal than a lot of other muslims and I wouldn't say I'm a devout muslim in how I go about my life. I'd be open to the idea of being involved with someone as a boyfriend/girlfriend. It just depends on his background really.

John Mason

OP, this is your decision and has nothing to do with anyone else. by all means arms yourself with the fact but make sure they are correct and internet hearsay - having said that this is my story

my friend is going out with a muslin for the last 5 years, his family doesnt know about her, her's do. he is a lovely bloke and they are very happy. he hasn't once asked her to convert, she has offered but he has said no. he is definitely not looking for a wife.

my cousin is engaged to a muslin girl. they have a 6 month old daughter together. her family went nuts when she told them she was pregnant and told him he had to convert. he told them to feck off that he wasnt converting.

there was also the issue that he couldnt marry her, as his divorce hasnt come through yet. her family disowned her for about 4 weeks but now everything is great, he has been back and forth to her home country.

so its all lollipops and rainbows with my friends in mixed muslim relationships.

ironingbored

Hi OP,

There have been some good stories and some bad stories recounted here and the advice has generally been frank and fair.

If you want to know what this guy is looking for from the relationship just ask him. Ask him if you were ever to get married to each other would he insist you convert to Islam.

The fact that he is a Pakistani Muslim would tend to make the probability that he would try to convert you (in such a circumstance) all the stronger. Islam in Pakistan is as fundamental as you can get bar maybe its chaotic neighbour Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. I would also remind you that the penalty for apostasy in Islamic countries is death.

My gut feeling would be to leave it at being friends.