a shooter as an independant TD

xesse

Is there any plans for any shooting body to field independant td,s if an election was to take place.
Or would we be too busy arguing amongst ourselves .
i wouldn,t be eloquent enough for the job , but i know of quite a few lads whom i shoot with that would do a damn fine job of it if it was to happen.
Now i know i,m going to get all the nay-sayers and the like giving me jib on this thread....but maybe this should be looked at now and teased out a bit just in case;););)
6 independants in 6 strong shooting counties then come together and you have a force the size of the green party. i think

Sparks

We've talked about this before. A lot.
The math doesn't support the idea I'm afraid.
~200,000 shooters spread all over the country.
If they all voted in one area, no problem, but they don't.
Maybe if you could get all the shooters and all their eligible family to vote, you could elect someone in Wicklow; but it's not a sure thing.
Independent candidates can be elected, but they're usually based on major local issues that affect the entire local population, like provisioning of hospitals and the like.
And even when you get them in, they'd have to be Minister for Justice to be able to fix the Firearms Act.
And at the moment, people are too worried about losing their jobs, negative equity on their house, schools and colleges for their kids, their own pensions, healthcare, rising levels of crime, massive national debt, collapsing banks... well, you get the idea.

Bananaman

I think the idea has merit

don't know anything about how you do it - you'd have to be able to prove you're a corrupt backstabbing type to get anywhere if you got in though

the media would have to give you fair coverage which could only be a good thing

of course if it was looking likely all the NGBs would field a candidate and feck it up for each other


B'Man

IRLConor

If anyone's willing to run, I'm sure the shooting community could provide some support. Whether it would be enough or not is anyone's guess.

Personally I'd think if someone ran as a single-issue, pro-shooting candidate they'd have trouble getting their deposit back. A candidate running as a genuine politician with a full spectrum of policies who just happened to nail their colours to the mast on shooting issues would have a much better time of it.

Finding a suitable constituency would be tough. There were only 14 of the TDs elected the last time who got less than a 10% share of the first preference votes and only one of them (Beverley Flynn) was even nominally an independent. Your best bet would probably be with a mostly-rural 5 seat constituency and aim to secure 10%+ of the first preference votes. Just as an example, these are roughly the figures you'd have to meet:

Constituency|Rough first-preference vote target based on 2007 turnout
Carlow Kilkenny|6,800
Cavan Monaghan|6,600
Galway West|5,600
Laois Offaly|5,700
Mayo|7,200
Wexford|6,900
Wicklow|6,600


Laois Offaly looks easier than it is because you'd have to contend with 2nd and 3rd choice FF TDs getting strong transfers from Brian Cowen. Galway West looks a bit more open but you'd still have to be careful of FF transfers.

Realistically, you'd have to aim for 6,500 - 7,000 first preference votes. Getting that number of votes is no problem. Getting that number of first preference votes is a different story though.

Sparks

Wicklow/Wexford might seem doable from those figures because of the concentration of firearms licences in those districts; but don't forget, target shooters are a small part of the overall shooting community, and hunters aren't the majority either; farmers are. And farmers are generally looking to issues other than shooting when voting.

IRLConor

Sparks wrote: »

And farmers are generally looking to issues other than shooting when voting.

As would I TBH. A politician's position on firearms ownership is only one part of the bargain. That is, if I could find out what their position was, past the party line or platitudes. :rolleyes:

kay 9

Sparks wrote: »

We've talked about this before. A lot.
The math doesn't support the idea I'm afraid.
~200,000 shooters spread all over the country.
If they all voted in one area, no problem, but they don't.
Maybe if you could get all the shooters and all their eligible family to vote, you could elect someone in Wicklow; but it's not a sure thing.
Independent candidates can be elected, but they're usually based on major local issues that affect the entire local population, like provisioning of hospitals and the like.
And even when you get them in, they'd have to be Minister for Justice to be able to fix the Firearms Act.
And at the moment, people are too worried about losing their jobs, negative equity on their house, schools and colleges for their kids, their own pensions, healthcare, rising levels of crime, massive national debt, collapsing banks... well, you get the idea.

+1 on that sparks, the latter part of your post has it in a nutshell, there is too much emphasis on the economic health of this country at the moment for the majority of our higher profile men to care about a mere 200,000 shooters if that figure is correct Seems a bit low to me, as there was 1500 licence applications in a small area I know near me and that was before all were put through aswell. It is hard to argue against the need for all this attention towards our economy and the likes as it's a total shambles and they have their work cut out for a time to come to even get it back on track. I can't see them even considering looking at the "poor oul shooters" needs in the foreseeable future, especially if the IMF come in as it's rumoured:rolleyes::rolleyes: Only upside of the IMF that I can figure out is the decrease in ammo prices:D

Sparks

IRLConor wrote: »

That is, if I could find out what their position was, past the party line or platitudes. :rolleyes:

That's another point - independents are free to vote as they see fit in the Dail, but they're one TD out of 168 and they're going up against parties so they don't even make it out of the noise; and if you chose a party TD, then what they think doesn't really matter because the Whip system tends to ensure they all vote en masse. Ironically, the only real examples we've seen of a TD dodging that system and voting and acting against their party was Jim Deasy pushing to ban handguns in opposition to the stated FG policy on that point

However, there is a solution. This is Ireland, after all. Just use the brown envelope solution and arrange for large political donations through a single lobby group to whomever is in government and buy the support you need.

Everyone okay with donating an average of €100 a year to a bribe fund? I'm sure we could find someone we could all agree on to run a fund of ~€20 million which is intended for underhanded political uses...

kay 9

Sparks wrote: »

Wicklow/Wexford might seem doable from those figures because of the concentration of firearms licences in those districts; but don't forget, target shooters are a small part of the overall shooting community, and hunters aren't the majority either; farmers are. And farmers are generally looking to issues other than shooting when voting.

I bet I speak for alot of fellow farmers or hobby farmers when I say that we farmers have being through all the political disputes possible for decades and it's a no win situation as far as I can see.:mad: We were getting the same price for stock fUUUing 20 yrs ago, so it's hard to have guns as our priority especially if farmin is our only income. I know everyone wants wage/salary increases but at the end of the day, it's all about the dollaz$$$. Farmers have even driven their tractors through Dublin and for what. We need more riots lads. If there was a way to get the farmers and rest of the shooting community in co it would be gigantic step in the right direction for some sort of a resolve. It would be a huge project to get rolling though i guess Most farmers have lost their construction jobs now anyway as I havee so it's all i have is farmin right now. So i have more than enough time to join some "Super Shooting Group":D Im confidant I'd get some local lads to go along too, as farmers love such outings;)

Ps. regarding riots, for legal reasons I am not implying that we start an actual riot but a legal one:D

kay 9

Sparks wrote: »

That's another point - independents are free to vote as they see fit in the Dail, but they're one TD out of 168 and they're going up against parties so they don't even make it out of the noise; and if you chose a party TD, then what they think doesn't really matter because the Whip system tends to ensure they all vote en masse. Ironically, the only real examples we've seen of a TD dodging that system and voting and acting against their party was Jim Deasy pushing to ban handguns in opposition to the stated FG policy on that point

However, there is a solution. This is Ireland, after all. Just use the brown envelope solution and arrange for large political donations through a single lobby group to whomever is in government and buy the support you need.

Everyone okay with donating an average of €100 a year to a bribe fund? I'm sure we could find someone we could all agree on to run a fund of ~€20 million which is intended for underhanded political uses...

It's all the brown envelopes that have been floating around for the past 18 or 20 yrs that have ruined this country as far as I'm concerned, in relation to the US and Irl per capita there was more "legal mafia" here by far. What we need is a general election as soon as possible to get good ole everday common sense into society if at all possible. People have lost the run of themselves, going on power trips and not thinking of the consequences. As mentioned above Jim Deasy just to be seen in opposition for his own well to do and that miniscule feeling of power... Good idea though Sparks with the 100 euro, the $ sign in those mens eyes might swing them but we shouldn't have to do that. We should be governing to our government and they convey it on a broader spectrum our nation, but instead it's out of control, they no longer seem to care about the peoples opnion and I believe that is the rock they are going to perish on.

Traumadoc

http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/



I think it is interesting that FG have come out so early to say that they would repeal the stag hunting ban if elected.

It is something that will hurt FF If they vote on it, I think FG know this and are willing to support shooters ( Waterford FG gobsh*tes excepted).

xesse

If everyone took their blinkers off and noticed that a pro-shooting candidate can have other issues for a mandate
i.e
if you were to field one candidate in three counties
dublin,kildare,wicklow
All three are located beside each other so your resorces are pooled together and you could get better media exposure
There are a lot of shooting clubs and members from those counties
The issues can be expanded to include,as Sparks said ( people are too worried about losing their jobs, negative equity on their house, schools and colleges for their kids, their own pensions, healthcare, rising levels of crime, massive national debt, collapsing banks)
Sparks also said
(And even when you get them in, they'd have to be Minister for Justice to be able to fix the Firearms Act)
Well i believe that we could do a whole lot better for ourselves in there rather than out here talking about missed opertunities;)

There are alot of shooters plus shooters families on facebook...why not try poll the irish shooting community there,
i,d do it myself but not writing this took 30 mins. i,d be afraid of missing the election by the time i got a poll on facebook up lol