fathers rights to see baby daughter

michael66

I have an 8 month old baby with a woman I no longer have a relationship with. I absolutely adore Mia, my baby, in fact nothing else really matters and I live for the time I spend with her. I have paid maintenance from the day she was born and very soon she will be going to a creche, which will put considerable financial strain on me as I lost my job and took a 50% drop in salary and when I took another job. I also bought my house 4 years ago. The mother is in a secure position with a good job and over €40,000 in savings and although I have very little I have continued to use my savings to make payments. At the moment I am only been given very limited access to Mia, I can only see mia in the mothers house which is really horrible due to the atmosphere but it is better than not seeing her at all. The mother has suggested I should just walk away, which will never happen, but when I ask her to sign some thing that says she will not request maintenance support she just says I have repsonsibilities.
I love mia with all my heart and will work 2 jobs if necessary to make payments. I think the mother is just using Mia to hurt me and is as tight as a ducks arse as they say.

My question is if I go to court and the judge see the mother in a much better financial suituation than me will he reduce the amount of Maintanance i am paying if I show that I cannot afford half the amount of the weekly cost for Mia.
The mother wanted my name on the birth cert I could not understand why she was being nice about this and insisting on it but I have recently read that fathers who are not on the birth cert cannot be made to pay maintanence. This explains why she was so insistant. Is it possible to have my name removed from the birth cert and if so does this releive me of the need to pay maintanance. I will never do this and will always want my name on the cert and to be the father and to pay maintanance but I would like to threaten her with some thing as she is just a money grabber and i would like to try and scare her just once.

Thanks for any help and advice you can give.

michael

Gordon

Hi there, this is a Helpdesk for Boards.ie related concerns. I think you may be wanting to post this thread on the Parenting forum located here -> http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=251

Would you like me to move this thread there so you can have a discussion with the Parenting forum community regulars?

michael66

Please do, I am still getting to learn how to use this Boards ir correctly. Thank you for your help.

Regards

Michael

planetX

You spent an awful lot of your post going on about money.
Why don't you concentrate on getting access? The mothers financial state isn't your business anymore. If you go to court the judge will look at your finances, and may reduce your payments if they are excessive. You are obliged to maintain your child regardless of the mothers situation.
As for the birth cert - what a horrible question, I sincerely hope the answer is no.

metrovelvet

Yes you can still have to pay maintenance and not have your name on the birthcert.

If you refuse to pay maintenance she can take you to court and it will be granted.

You can procrastinate this by disputing paternity and then there will be a hugely expensive dna test ordered. Paternity will be confirmed and maintenance will be set.

She then, if she wants, take those results and the court order to have the birthcert ammended.

However, it will be part of your legacy - she will tell your daugher how you denied paternity and refused to name yourself as her father and you will have from the start contaminated your relationship with your daugher by doing this.

michael66

The money is not the issue. Mia is 8 months and now I am not able to see her at all now. There is always 2 sides to every suituation but believe i have done everything i can to try find a resolution to our problems. I have begged, yes begged her to meet with me with a mediator present. I arranged this but she would not turn up. I am willing to meet her with a friend of her present and she wont agree to that. Now she wont return my calls or texts. I have no other choice except to take this to court which is very sad for 2 people who have knwon each other for so long. Can any one tell me the following.

What steps should I take i believe that I should look for Guardianship first.
Access rights. Mia is 8 months old and when it suited the mother like going away for a weekend, or having a night out on the town, Mia has stayed in my house, we have also arranged that I look after mia in May when the mother heads away on a weekend away with her friends and when she attends a wedding. But it looks like she is restracting that now and will not let me see her at all due to the fact that the mother does not approve of my girlfriend now. I dont ever intend to introduce mia to my girlfriend and would be willing to put up with the awkwardness of seeing Mia in the mothers house but now all that is withdrawn and cant get to see her at all. I have not seen her in 2 weeks.

Can any one give me advice. I will do what ever i have to do to spend time with Mia, she loves my company and I look after like the little princess she is. I have taken a second job to meet the payments as Mia is going to the creche soon and I intend to pay my half. It is heartbreaking as i cant even hold her for 5 minutes. The mother is using Mia just to hurt me and even though I can barely live with this I have never raised my voice or said anything hurtful or disrespectful to the mother. however it is all taking its toll.

Because of Mia's age can any one tell me what access the judge will grant me.
How long does it take to get to court.
Where do i register.
I think I should go for guardianship first with access rights as part of the discussions.

Anything else i need to know.

I have numberous letters where i have written to the mother begging her to discuss this with me. I have tried to arrange mediators. I have always paid my maintenance on time event though there have been times i have had to borrow to do it.

This is presently breaking my heart like nothing else ever has and not sure where to turn.

thanks

Michael

smelltheglove

Michael you situation is very unfortunate. The most unfortunate bit being the effect it will have on your child. As a child who went through similar circumstances I insisted on it being different for my own daughter. I still get quite shocked hearing the stories people bring here sometimes.

At this stage I dont think you have any choice but to bring her to court. Fathers tend to be quite afraid of what will happen in the courts which again is another unfortunate thing as I dont think the courts are as biased to mothers as some people believe. I for one was raised by my father and that was years ago.

More recently a few years back a lad I worked with was in the same predicament as you, he was afraid of losing access of needing to pay more money. I still remember the day he decided to go to court, with him being such a young man at the time, no more than 22 it was quite a step to take but he felt he had no choice. He was given joint custody, he had his daughter 3 days a week and he was ordered to pay less maintenance than he was paying at the time.

I doubt it is the nicest of ordeals to go through but you are fighting here for your future with your daughter. If her mother fails to recognise your rights than she will have to abide by the ruling of the courts. I hope this goes in your favour, not only do you sound like you are dedicated to your daughter but also that you are being put under financial demands that you cannot meet. However bear in mind, no matter how little you earn and how much the mother earns you most likely will be required to support your child financially whilst she lives under her mothers roof.

michael66

I have read through all the post but may be it is late, i am tired or maybe i am just stupid. I have an beautiful amazing 8 month old daughter that I am not allowed to see by the mother. We were never living together and i have tried everything like mediation etc but she wont even go. The latest is she wont return my calls or answer my texts. In fact she says she will have nothing to do with me. I am on the birthcert but I do not think I am a legal guardian. How do I check and what steps should I do to gain access. I have always paid maintanance even though I am not allowed access.

Any advice

thanks

Michael

p.s. my whole world revolves Mia and it is breaking my heart not being able to hold her and see her

kerrz

Hi Michael66

My partner went through something similiar last summer . He had access to his kids but when he lost his job and had to reduce payments the mother refused access .

Unfortunately court was his only option when mediation etc was refused . He contacted the support group for fathers called Amen (www.amen.ie) . They were fantastic . He met with them and they explained what he needed to do , how to proceed and they are also great listeners . I would advise just even talking to them as it helped him get a lot off his chest and their advice was invaluable . One of their counsellers even went with him to the court on the day just as support .

They advised him to go to his local district court office ( which we had done previously to the the visit to Amen but the secretary told us the only way to make an application was through a solicitor , which is not the case )We asked for the forms for guardian of infants , maintenance order and access .You need to apply for them all separately but will all be heard on same day at the same time in court .He started to tell us about needing a solicitor but my partner politely and firmly told him that we knew we didn't need one , only then did he go about getting them and filling them out . You keep one copy and make a copy for the mother and either post them by registered post to her and hand in a copy of the registration to the court clerk or you hand deliver them .The clerk on the day you go in gives you a date for court , where we live family court is on the first Tuesday of every month .Our court was closed during July and August so it nearly 3 months before my partner got to sees his kids again. We turned up at 10 and then wait till the case is called . No one can go in with you only a solicitor if you have one . My partner never had . Guardianship was granted for us as there was no reason for it not to be , if its in the childs best interest it is usually granted despite the relationship of the parents .My partner had access re instated and he was allowed to add some clauses into the access agreement like a drop off point , definite times etc , maintenance was also reduced . My partner brought in copies of his bank statements , income , outgoings etc , documentation helps an awful lot .

I hope some of this helps .My partner was at a total lost last year and felt he had no rights but talking to Amen really helped and I would strongly recommend them .

Going to court is daunting but for your child and you it is a necessity .It will give you a more stable relationship ,when access is court ordered it is unlikely that the mother will break the court order .

Best of luck !

Princessa

Unmarried mothers are the sole legal guardians of their children. End of. If both parents sign an affadavit to grant guardianship to the father then they will both be guardians if this is not undertaken the sole guardianship of the child is the mothers.

michael66

I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I am still trying to resolve this with out going to court although I already know i am wasting my time.

Princessa

michael66 wrote: »

I have read through all the post but may be it is late, i am tired or maybe i am just stupid. I have an beautiful amazing 8 month old daughter that I am not allowed to see by the mother. We were never living together and i have tried everything like mediation etc but she wont even go. The latest is she wont return my calls or answer my texts. In fact she says she will have nothing to do with me. I am on the birthcert but I do not think I am a legal guardian. How do I check and what steps should I do to gain access. I have always paid maintanance even though I am not allowed access.

Any advice

thanks

Michael

p.s. my whole world revolves Mia and it is breaking my heart not being able to hold her and see her

You need to get to a solicitor. Save receipts etc for maintainence payments etc. Its very sad but unfortunatly its becoming more common, a solicitor will be able to advise you what steps to take next, maybe even a letter from a solicitor sent to her might encourage her to grant you acess.

Im sure she doesnt want to have to go to court over this, so maybe the solicitors letter might give her a wake up call that you are not going to take this lying down, you are going to fight to see your daughter.

kerrz

You're welcome , It is very hard to find info online etc for unmarried fathers and their rights .

My partner did his best to avoid the courts , his kids are 9 & 4 . He left when the eldest was 4 and after years of cancelled visits , only getting the kids when a babysitter was needed or she was fed up of them .There was no routine . He increased maintenance when asked , bought extras like beds , car seats etc for their mams house above the maintenance which was just under a 1000 pm . He figured if their mam was kept happy then the kids would be happy , if their mam was annoyed with him then this would be transferred to the kids and above anything he wanted them to be happy .

The only way forward for him was through the courts when the mother refused a definite arrangement and refused mediation . When he lost his job access was completely withdrawn .

It was the best thing he ever did , the kids now know exactly when they are coming to their dads , they have routine and also something to look forward to . It also avoids arrangements being cancelled because you and the mother have had a row , which is not fair on the kids and in the long run they are the ones who suffer the most .

Not wanting to go to court is admirable but maybe a naive . If you sort out an arrangement now between yourselves , there is no reason why she wont cancel it a couple of months down the road when there is a another disagreement .Having a signed agreement really means nothing unless it can be backed up by a court ruling .

Please contact Amen even just to talk to someone, they really are fantastic .They help even if you dont want to go to court .

Amen Helpline: 046 9023 718 / 086 7941 880(out of hours )
Email: info@amen.ie

Nevyn

http://www.treoir.ie/

http://www.treoir.ie/details.php?service_id=489

Unmarried & Separated Fathers of Ireland

1a Main Road Tallaght Dublin 24
Phone

(01)4514200/ 451 4295

email

info@dads-house.com

www.usfi.ie

Current Services

Access to children, court applications, gaurdianship, maintenance, joint custody, divorce, legal seperations, grandparent/step parent rights, domestic violence, counselling & mediation, social welfare entitlements. Partenting courses, training needs. We are the national hq for our 11 support groups nationwide

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/unmarried-couples/legal_guardianship_and_unmarried_couples

miju

michael66 wrote: »

My question is if I go to court and the judge see the mother in a much better financial suituation than me will he reduce the amount of Maintanance i am paying if I show that I cannot afford half the amount of the weekly cost for Mia.

Theres no gaurentees in court. I know in my circumstances I had vouched expenses, receipts, statements etc to show I had NO money (a €60 deficit per week) and she had nothing of the sort but she still said she was comfortable on her income which was double mine. Judge still doubled what I was paying her. The law can be a complete ass and is still incredibly biased towards women.

Regardless of maintenance get yourself into Dolphin House (District Court Family Law Office, Dolphin House, East Essex Street, Dublin 2. Tel + 353 1 888 6000 Fax + 353 1 6717903 Email: DistrictFamilyLaw@courts.ie) and have a summons issued to her in relation to gaurdianship & access.

It's a very simple process go into the building reception on the left hand side and speak at the counter and they will guide you through the rest and it costs nothing.

Believe me as someone who has been through this already you'll more than likely end up there anyways at some point regardless of how well intentioned any agreements are. You wont need a solicitor in Dolphin House either though you can have one if you wish (though it's VERY debatable as to how much use they are).

If you wish you can have all three issues heard at same time which would be access, gaurdianship & maintenance.

Princessa wrote: »

If both parents sign an affadavit to grant guardianship to the father then they will both be guardians if this is not undertaken the sole guardianship of the child is the mothers.

Not fully correct. The court can also order gaurdianship be granted to men and this is done on a very regular basis.

moonpurple

www.usfi.ie

see these guys end of story

mollso

theres something not right about the ops statements - it has come across to me as though you say you love your daughter and she means everything to you however there is the sense that there is something else behind what you are asking. Look you have a child and you want to be responsible so what exactly are you asking for help for? It doesn't matter what the mother has or hasn't what matters is that you face up to what is important. You have to take the time to ensure that the best possible outcome is gained for your child not for you nor for anyone else - therefore stop trying to suss out ways to get at the mother and try and put your energies into getting it right for your child.