Anglo irish bank get pay raises? what next?

lightspeed

Has anyone seen how anglo irish bank are getting pay rises already?
The very bank that was responible for such bad banking and ignoring any sort of financial regulation and getting a huge bail out. A few days after sean fitzpatrick gets arrested they are getting pay rises? It makes me sick. This government is raping this country. Why do we have so many ministers and politicans elected ?
All they do is rape the country dry and retire and collect a massive pension. How can they get away with this?

Diabhal Beag

"Rape" is such an over-used term

Agricola

lightspeed wrote: »

How can they get away with this?

If you find out, please PM me the answer.

melekalikimaka

not everyone in the banks were naughty, some are actually working quite hard to sort out the mess of a few

Ulysses Gaze

All they do is rape the country dry and retire and collect a massive pension. How can they get away with this?

Because the Irish people let them? We own Anglo, essentially, but where are the people hitting the streets in protest?

Are we that cowed?

orourkeda

I love the fact that irish people absolve themselves of their portion of the blame. Who elected Fiann Fail? Who took put mortgages they knew they couldnt afford?

Danbo!

lightspeed wrote: »

What next?

Probably a few more threads on the subject

melekalikimaka

orourkeda wrote: »

I love the fact that irish people absolve themselves of their portion of the blame. Who elected Fiann Fail? Who took put mortgages they knew they couldnt afford?

I believe the answer is...

all the people who'll be moaning on this thread

Liam Byrne

orourkeda wrote: »

I love the fact that irish people absolve themselves of their portion of the blame. Who elected Fiann Fail? Who took put mortgages they knew they couldnt afford?

Answers to your questions :

1) Not all of us
2) Not all of us

And I don't even think the FFfriends bank HAD any mortgages; definitely not many.

mikom

orourkeda wrote: »

Who elected Fiann Fail?

Not me.

orourkeda wrote: »

Who took put mortgages they knew they couldnt afford?

Not me.

Now it's my turn.

Who's the black private dick that's a sex machine to all the chicks?

lightspeed

Anglo may still need more tax payers money in more bail outs in the future and yet the give their employees raises.
As for defending by saying not all bankers behaved badly what does that have to do with anything?
i lost my last job i was in due to this recession in which the banking crisis is the main cause so should tax payers money not have been used for me to keep my old job and all the other people that lost their jobs?
How can we tolerate a government that uses taxpayers money for the bankers and thne the bank is so flushed with cash it can afford to give their employees increases?
There is no defense for this knife in the back. There is mayem with the passport office and hospitals. My mother cant even pick up her xrays as they wont answer the phone and yet the government is saying to them take the wage cut and be happy. If there was violence and riots right now would it relly be so bad? it seems to me there is already anarchy.
im all for protesting so if anybody else is willing let me know.

Karen23

melekalikimaka wrote: »

not everyone in the banks were naughty, some are actually working quite hard to sort out the mess of a few

I know not everyone in the banking system is to blame for the mess the banks are in but neither are the people who have nothing to do with the finance or property sector all around the country who have taken pay cuts and struggling to live to try and help the economy.
I think in these times no one should get pay rises. The country is collapsing around us and people are getting wage increases , I dont see the sense it at all. We all work hard but the the majority are having a hard time trying to keep their heads above water on reduced wages.
Another bloody joke in this country but we've come to expect nothing less.

melekalikimaka

Karen23 wrote: »

I know not everyone in the banking system is to blame for the mess the banks are in but neither are the people who have nothing to do with the finance or property sector all around the country who have taken pay cuts and struggling to live to try and help the economy.
I think in these times no one should get pay rises. The country is collapsing around us and people are getting wage increases , I dont see the sense it at all. We all work hard but the the majority are having a hard time trying to keep their heads above water on reduced wages.
Another bloody joke in this country but we've come to expect nothing less.

alot have these rises tied into their contracts

galwayrush

What next??? FF being re-elected into Government sometime in the future, that would be even more shocking.

lightspeed

orourkeda wrote: »

I love the fact that irish people absolve themselves of their portion of the blame. Who elected Fiann Fail? Who took put mortgages they knew they couldnt afford?

people did not take on mortgages they could not afford because most of them took on the mortgages when they had jobs. so because fianna fail was elected to power they should be allowed abuse the peoples trust and money in such a savage way?
im not financial regulator . That was his job and the bankers jobs to ensure that such a banking crisis does not happen. If a bookies went broke from taking on large bets and the government bailed them out would you blame the bookie or the people who made the big bets?

stealthyspeeder

The irish govenment owns a majority stake in Anglo Irish. It was able to buy this with the moeny that it recieved bith from taxes and debt it issued on the financiial markets.

If the government did not allow the managment to issue bonus' to the staff of Anglo Irish, they would, within 6 months move to another one of the many banks in the IFSC who can utilize and reward their skillset.

If this happened, Anglo Irish would have remploy the staff who left or face serious loss of business capacity, this is expensive, as nobody in the financial sector will want to work at a bank which does not pay performance related bonuses. Those that they would be able to find, would require a higher salery to compensate for the lack of bonus that they could get at another employer. This would end up costing the company, and thus the govenment, and thus the tax payer more in the long run. The issue of bonus to all staff below senior managment is pocket change to how much the bank could lose if it lost all its best staff and had to remploy specialists from high paying banks.

Short run Headline grabbing terms such as "raping the taxpayer" are only put forward by people with no knowledge or experience of the financial sector job market. Without the employees, the bank is nothing, and if it collapsed you could kiss goodbye to what shreds of an economy we have left, as the Irish Government would be forced into default.

Liam Byrne

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

***** [whatever] *****

Everything that you wrote could be applied to ANY company.

And whatever about standard companies standing on their own two feet doing whatever they want with their money, Anglo can go f**k themselves if they're going to throw away my €18,000 with this bull****.

EVERYONE is down pay.....even in companies that have not had to whimper and beg from the corrupt FF government.

And I can't wait until the next shareholders' meeting of Anglo - because we should all go there since we own the cesspit and tell them exactly what we think of their ignorant and sickening carry-on.

My name is URL

Think of it as an added assurance rather than a pay hike. The guys at Anglo have a hell of a task in front of 'em to turn things around, and that benefits all of us.. so is it not better to pay them well to increase the chances of them performing well?

I know that a lot of problems have stemmed from over-paying people, but in comparison to the people that got us into the mess in the first place, the people that got a raise today still have low salaries

melekalikimaka

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

lengthly post too lengthy to quote fully

I agree, you want the best to mange the bank, the best wont work for peanuts

dvpower

My name is URL wrote: »

Think of it as an added assurance rather than a pay hike. The guys at Anglo have a hell of a task in front of 'em to turn things around, and that benefits all of us.. so is it not better to pay them well to increase the chances of them performing well?

I know that a lot of problems have stemmed from over-paying people, but in comparison to the people that got us into the mess in the first place, the people that got a raise today still have low salaries

I tend to agree. These rises apply to just 60 of the staff. From what I gather, some of them have new roles and others have specialist skills and qualifications important to the current phase that the bank is in - this is not a general pay rise.

The bank is under the control of new management. Let them manage.

stealthyspeeder

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Everything that you wrote could be applied to ANY company.

And whatever about standard companies standing on their own two feet doing whatever they want with their money, Anglo can go f**k themselves if they're going to throw away my €18,000 with this bull****.

EVERYONE is down pay.....even in companies that have not had to whimper and beg from the corrupt FF government.

And I can't wait until the next shareholders' meeting of Anglo - because we should all go there since we own the cesspit and tell them exactly what we think of their ignorant and sickening carry-on.

It could only be applied to publically owned companies competing in a industry dominated by private profit maximising companies. I dont think "ANY" company really describes this rare situation.

If you dont mind me asking, this 18g of yours which they are throwing away........ how exactly are they doing this? amount you have in savings, tax paid last year, or private bill the government sent you or what?

A lot of people are down in pay and a lot of people are out of work completely, however the impact of certain companies failing, is different accross industries. If Pat the Butchers goes bust, it will put a a small number of people out of work, however if a major bank goes bust, it can start a worldwide recession (Lehmans) which is felt by > 90% of the worlds population, and if a government backed bank goes bust, then the country goes into default (Iceland). This is serious. Much much much worse than having some corrupt slime that never seem to get anything done in power. If you are a country in default, you effectively have 0 influence of your econommy, no power and international credit/trade wont come near you for years, leaving job prospects in tatters and an overall decrease in the qualithy of life for all.

Emotive headlines of unfairness and simple reasoning, could force the government to make a short term decision (no bonuses) which would not have the negative headlines, but a year later, the value of the company could be rock bottom or at worst bust, which would cost the taxpayer soooo much more than bonus' to mid and low level staff.

buzzymam

The "guys at Anglo" dont need to do jack sh1t. They begging bowl will be presented to the government next week and it'll be the tax payers who sort them out AGAIN.

Why do they need key experienced staff when were paying for their mistakes?

stealthyspeeder

buzzymam wrote: »

The "guys at Anglo" dont need to do jack sh1t. They begging bowl will be presented to the government next week and it'll be the tax payers who sort them out AGAIN.

Why do they need key experienced staff when were paying for their mistakes?

This is exactly why you want a bonus culture in a bank.... if the bank does well, you do well.

Take this culture and prime motivation out of it, bank wont perform well and taxpayer will foot the bill.

buzzymam

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

This is exactly why you want a bonus culture in a bank.... if the bank does well, you do well.

Take this culture and prime motivation out of it, bank wont perform well and taxpayer will foot the bill.

Thats some screwed up work ethic imo.

ilovelamp2000

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

If the government did not allow the managment to issue bonus' to the staff of Anglo Irish, they would, within 6 months move to another one of the many banks in the IFSC who can utilize and reward their skillset.

Which banks are hiring ?

And how attractive is a skillset that involves creating the biggest mess in Irish financial history?

jackhammer

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

If the government did not allow the managment to issue bonus' to the staff of Anglo Irish, they would, within 6 months move to another one of the many banks in the IFSC who can utilize and reward their skillset.

Let them off with themselves. It would be interesting to see how marketable their CVs are, with Anglo-Irish on them.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

I agree, you want the best to mange the bank, the best wont work for peanuts

The best? You're having a laugh!

This lot managed to rack up the biggest corporate loss in Irish history. They don't even deserve peanuts!

dvpower

Rosco1982 wrote: »

Which banks are hiring ?

And how attractive is a skillset that involves creating the biggest mess in Irish financial history?

Many banks are hiring. Especially in specialist roles.
It was the management policies of Anglo that got it into trouble, not the staff.

buzzymam

jackhammer wrote: »

Let them off with themselves. It would be interesting to see how marketable their CVs are, with Anglo-Irish on them.



The best? You're having a laugh!

This lot managed to rack up the biggest corporate loss in Irish history. They don't even deserve peanuts!

+ 1 !

stealthyspeeder

Rosco1982 wrote: »

Which banks are hiring ?

And how attractive is a skillset that involves creating the biggest mess in Irish financial history?

Most of the international banks in the IFSC are hiring at the moment in some departments.

from whos perspective would you judge the attraction? and saying that they created the mess is simplfying the causes and effects of the global credit crunch a wee bit!

Liam Byrne

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

If you dont mind me asking, this 18g of yours which they are throwing away........ how exactly are they doing this? amount you have in savings, tax paid last year, or private bill the government sent you or what?

The government is throwing €18,000 per person into Anglo.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

A lot of people are down in pay and a lot of people are out of work completely, however the impact of certain companies failing, is different accross industries.

We know all this. We know that Lenihan guaranteed it, etc.

That does NOT excuse throwing additional money at it for no reason.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Emotive headlines of unfairness and simple reasoning, could force the government to make a short term decision (no bonuses) which would not have the negative headlines, but a year later, the value of the company could be rock bottom or at worst bust, which would cost the taxpayer soooo much more than bonus' to mid and low level staff.

The company does not have the money.

As a shareholder (courtesy of FF) I'm perfectly entitled to object.

And please - less of the patronising "emotive headlines" and "simple reasoning".

Emotive ? Possibly. Because it's WRONG.
Simple reasoning ? More like simply cop-on.

If we weren't bailing out Anglo I couldn't give a crap (as long as I wasn't paying interest to them, they can do what they like with THEIR money).

But THEY don't HAVE any money. It's OUR money.

Staff should do WHAT EVERYONE ELSE has had to do since THEIR EMPLOYER bolloxed up the economy......do extra work with no bonuses.

THEIR. COMPANY. HAS. NO. MONEY.
THEY. CANNOT. GET. PAID. MORE.

Do I have to put that in bold and flashing lights ?

Liam Byrne

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

and saying that they created the mess is simplfying the causes and effects of the global credit crunch a wee bit!

Come off it! They loaned out irresponsibly to developers. They hid millions in loans from auditors.

And that's only the stuff we're allowed to legally say!

The "global credit crunch" has feck-all to do with that carry-on. :mad:

dvpower

Liam Byrne wrote: »

THEIR. COMPANY. HAS. NO. MONEY.
THEY. CANNOT. GET. PAID. MORE.

Do I have to put that in bold and flashing lights ?

I've been trying to get this point across to public servants for a couple of years now.

smurgen

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

nobody in the financial sector will want to work at a bank which does not pay performance related bonuses.

if they were to be paid in relation to their performance they'd get nothing

melekalikimaka

Liam Byrne wrote: »

As a shareholder (courtesy of FF) I'm perfectly entitled to object.

wow i was paying attention til i read that

Liam Byrne

dvpower wrote: »

I've been trying to get this point across to public servants for a couple of years now.

Fair point.

But this fiasco - and Cowen's pathetic opinion on it - won't help the Government's position.

Leaving staff with the same salary and asking them to do a bit more isn't TOO bad in the current climate.

Asking them to take a pay CUT as well is a biggie.

And asking them to take a pay CUT while their taxes are allowing the most corrupt company in the history of the state to give pay RISES is a non-runner.

stealthyspeeder

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The government is throwing €18,000 per person into Anglo.

And if they were to become profitable in 5 years, and the share price rises to €25,0000 per person, would this be unacceptable to you? The government would have more money and could theortically justify a decrease in the amount of tax it needs. Its long run vs short run, and if any govenment ever shows a preference for the short run over the long run in any aspect of finacial policy, they get sold short and devalued in the finaincial markets.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The government is throwing €18,000 per person into Anglo.

We know all this. We know that Lenihan guaranteed it, etc.

That does NOT excuse throwing additional money at it for no reason.

Its not for no reason. It is to prevent future LARGER losses which the taxpayer would pay if they occurred. I believe this was the entire subject of my first post.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

As a shareholder (courtesy of FF) I'm perfectly entitled to object.

And please - less of the patronising "emotive headlines" and "simple reasoning".

Emotive ? Possibly. Because it's WRONG.
Simple reasoning ? More like simply cop-on.

Of course you entitled to your opinion, but that doesn not mean your opinon is based on a solid foundation of knowledge about the different facors involved which are specific to the banking sector. I am of the opinion that if you understood more, your opinion about the government choice of action would change.

Where did you find out the information you are basing your opinions on? Because unfortunately it sounds to mean like populist opinion based on tabloid newspaper stories. It is emotive and is wrong in the short term picture that is painted, but the end result is drastically different over a longer period of time.

I disagree about "Cop on", not paying bonuses would lead to a far worse situation than paying them in the long run for the taxpayer.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If we weren't bailing out Anglo I couldn't give a crap (as long as I wasn't paying interest to them, they can do what they like with THEIR money).

But THEY don't HAVE any money. It's OUR money.

Staff should do WHAT EVERYONE ELSE has had to do since THEIR EMPLOYER bolloxed up the economy......do extra work with no bonuses.

THEIR. COMPANY. HAS. NO. MONEY.
THEY. CANNOT. GET. PAID. MORE.

Do I have to put that in bold and flashing lights ?

This shows a lack of understanding about the industry and about the effect of time in a marketplace for jobs and stocks.

The government owns it, if it fails the taxpayer will pay, if it profits the taxpayer will profit.

If you dont pay the staff the same or better than the compitors, the best will leave, and the bank will make lower profits comparitively than its compditors and the banks share price will not rise and the taxpayer will continue to pay long term and large!

If it does pay well it will have a choice of profitable individuals who will make themselves and the bank more money. This will make the price go up and benefit the taxpayer.

Liam Byrne

melekalikimaka wrote: »

wow i was paying attention til i read that

What's that supposed to mean ?

Anglo is nationalised. That means it belongs to the country - i.e. us - (unfortunately).

melekalikimaka

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Fair point.


Leaving staff with the same salary and asking them to do a bit more isn't TOO bad in the current climate.

not in the banking industry, people who can fix things in banking are in serious high demand, you think its better to not pay them their market value and ley them leave so some inexperienced fella tries his hand at fixing thing... really...

stepbar

Look its as simple as this... You say peanuts you get monkeys. I wouldn't expect the average joe soap to be able to understand that.

Liam Byrne

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Because unfortunately it sounds to mean like populist opinion based on tabloid newspaper stories.

Well that shows how little you know, because I wouldn't read a tabloid if you paid me.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

If you dont pay the staff the same or better than the compitors, the best will leave

You're continuously assuming that "the best" are working there.

If they were, then they wouldn't have needed to come begging for OUR money.

Anglo is a tainted brand and there is NO HOPE IN HELL of it ever being worth "€25,0000 " (whatever that is - the misplaced comma looks like something out of Anglo's books)

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Of course you entitled to your opinion, but that doesn not mean your opinon is based on a solid foundation of knowledge about the different facors involved which are specific to the banking sector. I am of the opinion that if you understood more, your opinion about the government choice of action would change.

Patronising in the extreme. As I pointed out to you earlier, EVERY company needs the best staff that it can afford, and yet you repeat that the banking sector is somehow "different", and has "specific" factors.

And your opinion is not only patronising, but wrong. I understand that commercial operations that fail to make a profit CANNOT continue to be reckless and act as if they had an endless supply of cash. And no, it wouldn't change if I "understood more" :rolleyes: - it's called ethics, fairness and realism.

I'll repeat - there is NOTHING in any of your posts that is "specific to the banking sector".

Liam Byrne

melekalikimaka wrote: »

not in the banking industry, people who can fix things in banking are in serious high demand, you think its better to not pay them their market value and ley them leave so some inexperienced fella tries his hand at fixing thing... really...

They're the SAME STAFF as were there.....how can they possibly "fix things in banking" ?

melekalikimaka

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You're continuously assuming that "the best" are working there.

If they were, then they wouldn't have needed to come begging for OUR money.

Explain a bit more please, or am I to hazard a guess your assuming to suit you crumbling argument.

smurgen

melekalikimaka wrote: »

not in the banking industry, people who can fix things in banking are in serious high demand, you think its better to not pay them their market value and ley them leave so some inexperienced fella tries his hand at fixing thing... really...

im a master in financial economics and i understand all the risks and signals to the markets and the paying best salary things but i think the government needs to take a firm stand against this move. simple rule: do what you've always done and you will get what you've always gotten!they need a different approach that just firing money at people all the time.people got hight salaries in the past and look what happened.the financials sector job market is at the moment full of lemons and better screening processes are needed.id say a share in the bank itself would be a better option tbh

Liam Byrne

melekalikimaka wrote: »

Explain a bit more please, or am I to hazard a guess your assuming to suit you crumbling argument.

I'll respond, despite the "crumbling argument" bull (it'd be funny if it weren't so untrue).

If those people were so amazingly capable of running a bank, then they wouldn't have crashed like they did, with so many unsecured and dodgy loans, and wouldn't have transferred funds and loans around to hide them.

One or two dodgy ones, then fair enough, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, but the exposure is more like the result of a drunken gambler at Cheltenham than a skilled banker that got unlucky.

They'd have taken a hit like all banks due to the worldwide crash and iffy practices, but they would not have been exposed as the cesspit that Anglo is.

The Lovely Muffin

Anglo Irish Bank aren't the only bank giving pay rises.

Last year (2009), another bank (won't mention who in case it causes legal trouble), gave a pay rise AND a Christmas Bonus. The pay-rise was 3% and the Christmas bonus was 5%. Another person who works for the same bank, who also got the pay rise and Christmas bonus, bought a watch that cost €1,000 for their (teenage) daughter.

I know because the people I am talking about are related to someone we know and it was the person we know who told us.

The whole thing about "no bonuses and pay rises" is absolute bullcrap and it's high time the government stopped lying to us and taking us for fools, but, it's doubtful that will ever happen.:mad:

KevinVonSpiel

Anglo Irish bank get pay raises? what next?

Handjobs?

Pepe LeFrits

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'll respond, despite the "crumbling argument" bull (it'd be funny if it weren't so untrue).

If those people were so amazingly capable of running a bank, then they wouldn't have crashed like they did, with so many unsecured and dodgy loans, and wouldn't have transferred funds and loans around to hide them.

One or two dodgy ones, then fair enough, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, but the exposure is more like the result of a drunken gambler at Cheltenham than a skilled banker that got unlucky.

They'd have taken a hit like all banks due to the worldwide crash and iffy practices, but they would not have been exposed as the cesspit that Anglo is.

The people who ran the bank into the ground aren't there any more.

Anglo staff getting pay rises certainly rankles but we're talking about 70 people out 1200 here, and there could be very good reasons for those 70 people getting rises. I know for a fact that there are still some extremely capable people working there, and I also know that morale in the place is very low and the staff desperately want out. If the Government want to have any hope of turning the place around or at least recovering something, they're going to need to keep some good people in there. Others have already jumped ship to other banks.

lightspeed

if the people in anglo were /are so good then why they they crumble so badly?
i thought bankng jobs had decreased in number and yet we need to give them a pay rise from taxpayers money? i had no idea that the banking industry was having such a boom in jobs. is there actually any reason to suggest anglo irish will actually be profitable even in the longterm?
the taxpayers money is not an endless pit of money and i reckon any potential investors must realise this and see that its not a safe gamble.

sparklespark

If the people in Anglo Irish bank are soo unhappy with their salary why dont they leave. See how far they would get. Absolute disgrace if they get a pay rise. Absolute Disgrace.

Pepe LeFrits

lightspeed wrote: »

if the people in anglo were /are so good then why they they crumble so badly?

That's like asking if German soldiers were so good then why did they lose World War 2.

i thought bankng jobs had decreased in number and yet we need to give them a pay rise from taxpayers money? i had no idea that the banking industry was having such a boom in jobs. is there actually any reason to suggest anglo irish will actually be profitable even in the longterm?
the taxpayers money is not an endless pit of money and i reckon any potential investors must realise this and see that its not a safe gamble.

I don't agree with it but if they've decided they want to continue operating the bank and operating it properly they'll need people and not the cheapest they can find.

sparklespark wrote: »

If the people in Anglo Irish bank are soo unhappy with their salary why dont they leave. See how far they would get.

Lots have already.

sparklespark

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

That's like asking if German soldiers were so good then why did they lose World War 2.

I don't agree with it but if they've decided they want to continue operating the bank and operating it properly they'll need people and not the cheapest they can find.

Lots have already.

Obviously not enough of them have left.