Club Teams - do you need h'caps tight to the limit?

ShriekingSheet

I'm always interested to see the likes of Metro/ProvTowns, if the good teams exclusively made up of 9 h'cap players, or do a few in-form 10s and 11s sneak in. If you're fielding the odd 6 or 7 in Junior Cup, do you stand a chance? And do succesful Barton Cup teams always have five pairs bang on the 14 combined limit?

It must be a hard call to make. Most clubs probably could field a team of 9s, 5s or combined 14s on paper. But the trouble is, are you shoe-horning in out of form players, or guys on the slide, just to make the team look good on paper? Or is the experience it takes to get those couple of shots lower paramount, even if a slightly higher guy seems to be making in-roads - he's higher for a reason?

stockdam

I don't know but I'll try my opinions.

Singles first......

Handicap should be accurate so therefore a player off 9 should beat a player off 11 over a period. A player on the way up is probably going to play worse than his handicap and a player coming down is probably a bit better.

One thing that does make a difference is a player's ability to play under pressure. Some people start to make silly decisions when they loose a hole - they try to win it back immediately and then end up loosing a couple in a row. Others will hole the crucial putt when needed. Some people play well under pressure and these are the ones I'd pick (the "fighters")

I'd also pick people who are consistent. If a 9 handicapper usually returns 30 to 35 points then he is probably a better bet than one that scores anywhere between 18 points and 40 points.

I might decide to pick a guy who at one stage played off scratch but is now playing off 9. He'll know what to do when the pressure is on. He has the experience.

Teams.........pairing up teams is a different thing altogether and sometimes you need to match personalities........they need to fight for each other.

Russman

I think generally its a judgement call by the manager of a given team.

You'll always get 10s or 11s who are more than capable of playing to metro standard and also some 9s who aren't up to it (even though they may be fine in strokeplay - with the club jumper on its a different story).

You often find in metro that there will be junior(s) who may be off 4 or 5 when playing a match as they're coming down very quickly, and a poor 10 handicapper hasn't much of a chance but that'd be the luck of the draw.

Many moons ago I played against Sutton in a metro match and the guy I played was 5 under when he beat me on 14th, we were both 17 and it was one of those things !

For barton its slightly different in that there are a number of possible combinations permutations. Would two good 8s be better than a 9 and a 5 ? etc etc.
A few years ago i played against a +2 and a 16 in a Barton semi final, we were a 4 and a 10 and got hammered (mind you the 16 was waaay to good for 16 it has to be said )

Matchplay is significantly different to strokeplay and the manager has to take that into account when picking the team - of course this often leads to people's noses out of joint if, say, a 10 is picked ahead of a 9 on the metro.

I suppose like most team sports the manager gets the credit for success and must take the stick (if its warranted) for losing.

Hope thats not too long winded.........

jimjo

Interesting topic as the metro is kicking off shortly.

I know many 9’s who for the life of them aren’t capable to playing to 9, coming in with 26 or 28 points in weekly comps. While I know a few 11’s who are coming in with 34 or 36 points week on week. So does a team manager decide I’ll have a team of 9 handicappers who have played metro cup before but are not playing anywhere near to their handicaps or will I throw in maybe the less experienced 10 or 11’s who are on decent form.

I suppose practice matches who be a good indicator to see if the 10 or 11 guys are capable of playing well in matchplay situations.

At the end of the day it’s the team managers call obviously, you need an even balance with the season campaigners and throw in some of the on form 11’s into the fold. However I feel team managers will always favour the lower handicappers.

Jasonw

stockdam wrote: »

I'd also pick people who are consistent. If a 9 handicapper usually returns 30 to 35 points then he is probably a better bet than one that scores anywhere between 18 points and 40 points.

i wish there were more people like you picking teams.

Leagues on at the moment. The next weeks teams are always last weeks winners. The guys who turn in consistant 35-38s don't get a look in.
Result? Bottom of the league table!

Johnny_Fontane

i'm playing barton cup for the first time this year and am off a solid 11. the guy i'm paired with is off 5.

should be fun!

Apparently people take it incredibly seriously, I'm a light hearted player and enjoy my golf no matter what the pressure, any tips out there from seasoned cup pros?

ShriekingSheet

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Apparently people take it incredibly seriously, I'm a light hearted player and enjoy my golf no matter what the pressure, any tips out there from seasoned cup pros?

Yeah, one tip, don't lose that attitude. It's a great form of golf, and you try and play your best and win of course. But the guys taking it "incredibly seriously" do so more out of ego than anything else. It's a good break from the weekend stableford for a lot of players. A great way to test yourself against other players of a similar standard.

Some guys think there's a mandatory requirement to play club matches with an intensely concentrated frown, and to throw their face in their hands when a putt is missed on the back 9. This is not the case.

Russman

[QUOTE=
Some guys think there's a mandatory requirement to play club matches with an intensely concentrated frown, and to throw their face in their hands when a putt is missed on the back 9. This is not the case.[/QUOTE]

100% spot on there. Too many guys play a totally different game when playing inter-club than their own game that got them selected in the first place. They start second guessing themselves, get all tense, throwing clubs ("to show they care") etc etc bla, bla......

Play your own natural game, enjoy the match and whoever wins, wins.

Myksyk

Russman wrote: »

100% spot on there. Too many guys play a totally different game when playing inter-club than their own game that got them selected in the first place. They start second guessing themselves, get all tense, throwing clubs ("to show they care") etc etc bla, bla......

Managers should knock this on the head before the first ball is struck. No 'apologising', no losing the head 'to show you care' etc. Really basic 'managing requirements here.

JCDUB

Hmmm, all the above correct.

Played Barton twice before, once off 11 with a very good 3, also a friend of mine, so was a dream.
Also once off 7 with a younger guy also off 7, different experience.

I'm of the opinion that golf is to be enjoyed and as said above is not for frowning and being annoyed and upset, so I like to just go out and enjoy it.

However, I have to admit I hate foursomes, especially in our club where no preparations whatsoever are made to try to pair people up in advance.

It's just a shit format, where anything that can go wrong usually does go wrong, and you only get to play half a round.

Gimme Metro any day, my handicap is there now thank Jaysus, gotta wait til next year though:)

f22

Played quite a bit of Barton Cup and a little Jimmy Bruen a few years back. Not a lover of foursomes and as JC states above coming from a club that mismanages teams far too much I avoid it completely now.

Fail to prepare and prepare to fail. I once got paired on the day with a 10 handicapper I'd never even met before. I was drilling the driver all day only for him to ask me to stop leaving him too close on his second shots, after playing 14 holes!

I prefer to keep it to singles these days, I can only blame my own preparation and golf on the day.

PhilipMarlowe

Interclub is a different animal to your regular golf though... I still have regrets over a shot I played in the mixed foursomes last year ffs, dumping it in a bunker on the 16th... whereas I can much more easily forgive my mistakes on my own singles cards. Playing 'for' a partner and a team is a different animal.

As the lads said, the main thing is to enjoy it... it's a fantastic experience. I would advise you to agree with your partner that there will be no apologies - you obviously try to keep the concentration up to minimise the mistakes but at our level you can guarantee that there will be plenty of weak shots and if you spend time apologising and dwelling on those shots you won't be ready to hit the next one properly.

Because it's matchplay you never give up... it's a test of character.
Our match against Waterford last year was an example of that (I was only watching, not playing). Every game of the 3 came from behind.. the 1 away win won on 19th or 20th and one of the home wins won on the 19th... the other home win won on the 20th after being 5 down turning I think and Waterford had a great birdie chance from 12ft on the 11th, par for a half and 3 putted... lost the 12th but won the 14th so 4 up with 4 to play and got pegged back.... lost the 20th in crazy matchplay style too.
It's not always about the quality of the golf... you could be 2 over turning one day and be 3 holes down. On another day 2 over and you could be 5 up!
In our qtr final last year we were 2 down after 9, played the next 6 holes in 2 under and were still 2 down... the matchplay element requires a lot of patience...