The theory of putting mixes together

electrogrimey

I'm about to put together a new mix, just because I've found a lot of great new tunes recently, and want to put them together into a mix. Usually when I make mixes, I don't put a huge amount of thought into the order of the tracks, just start with something that works as an intro, leave the bangers to near the end, and finish with something nice to finish with. I generally just try to put the tunes together in an order that they'll mix nicely.

But, I know there should be more to putting mixes together. I know it's different to live sets, when you're supposed to 'take the crowd on a journey' etc, but there must be some kind of depth to mixes, even if 1 hour is quite a short time.

How do you go about putting mixes together? Anything fantastically theoretical or deep?

Executive Steve

I personally always try and do mixes in reverse order to the way I'd play in a club.

Often when I'm sitting around and listening to a mix I'll notice I put one on that suits the mood and next thing it builds and builds and gets louder and heavier and I end up listening to something else, so what I try and do with my mixes is start off with a bang and then go deeper, and deeper and deeper...

Also, I never mix two records by the same producer or on the same label together. Cast iron rule.

b45

Executive Steve wrote: »

I personally always try and do mixes in reverse order to the way I'd play in a club.

Often when I'm sitting around and listening to a mix I'll notice I put one on that suits the mood and next thing it builds and builds and gets louder and heavier and I end up listening to something else, so what I try and do with my mixes is start off with a bang and then go deeper, and deeper and deeper...

Also, I never mix two records by the same producer or on the same label together. Cast iron rule.

id agree on starting with a bang , i used to try start at the bottom and slowly build over an hour or two but i think its a far more interesting listen if your set starts at a peak goes down , up and then down again ( if that makes sense ) .
as far a putting tunes together , i do one of two things ; either have a rough idea what i want to play and just hit record and do it all on the fly , some of my favourite mixes ive made have been done this way . or else try to remember good passages of 4 or 5 tunes that i land on when im just messing about in the decks and then try to link these strings of tunes together in a way that makes sense .

electrogrimey

Executive Steve wrote: »

Also, I never mix two records by the same producer or on the same label together. Cast iron rule.

Naturally, I also try not to have 2 or more tracks by the same artist in a mix, it gets a bit stale.

I suppose how it builds depends on where people will listen to a mix. If they're listening to it at home, starting big and ending deep would be perfect, but I'll often throw on mixes if I'm sitting around with mates, or at the start of a party etc, so I suppose it's not always black and white.

I often subconsciously bring it a bit deeper in the middle and back up at the end. That guy ellaskins on youtube has all these videos with long-winded explanations about trees and branches and journeys etc, but I don't know how important any of it is...I don't know whether a mix should be a journey, seeing as it's going to be an hour of the same style. Definitely food for thought...

jonnny68

Executive Steve wrote: »

Also, I never mix two records by the same producer or on the same label together. Cast iron rule.

I do the complete opposite as i find that often both tunes from the same artist or label will have a similar tempo and style and will therefore blend together well.

Generally i like to build it up slowly and will always select the last tune which is usually banging although occasionally ill just drop the tempo.

Executive Steve

jonnny68 wrote: »

I do the complete opposite as i find that often both tunes from the same artist or label will have a similar tempo and style and will therefore blend together well.

That's why I don't do it.

milltown

Executive Steve wrote: »

Also, I never mix two records by the same producer or on the same label together. Cast iron rule.

I'd be the same but I wondered was I something of an exception when I saw so many of the mixes in the member's mixes thread tending to have two or three tracks from the same artist. Or, just re-reading your post, do you mean you would have them in the same mix, just not mixed into each other?

Executive Steve

milltown wrote: »

I'd be the same but I wondered was I something of an exception when I saw so many of the mixes in the member's mixes thread tending to have two or three tracks from the same artist. Or, just re-reading your post, do you mean you would have them in the same mix, just not mixed into each other?

I'd play a few tunes (not more than two or three in the course of an hour) by the same producer together in a mix or a set all right, just wouldn't mix them into each other. Forces me to think harder...

hans aus dtschl

The "journey" thing is cliché as hell, but I think it's nice to bring the mood from gentle to tough or vice versa slowly. After that I don't think it matters a whole pile to me which direction it's going.

When I'm making mixes, I think it helps to have a track to start into the mix "properly" (not an "intro" track, but one that you think is really straightforward, after your "intro" if you have one) and a track that you want to get to eventually, and then just try and get to that track as well as you can, connecting the tracks together in between for as long as it takes.

Zascar

I try to have a theme for the mix overall, and then let it naturally go where it feels right during the mix. I sometimes do it in a wave shape but other times I like it more smooth. As long as its not all over the place its not really that important - its more about the specific tunes etc. Depending on the type of music some are better with a smooth flow and some need some chopping and changing with breakdowns and buildups etc

franklyshocked

There's a huge difference between a planned set and one that just has a random selection of the beatport top 10 so you're on the right track if you put any form of sequencing to your mix.

The first track is probably the most important as it should set the tone or have the ability to draw the listener in. If you don't have their attention by the first couple of bars its harder to do later.
It depends on the length of the mix but I almost always try to finish on a good interesting tune and spread the bangers evenly through the mix.

electrogrimey

I think I'm pretty happy with my idea for this mix. It just so happened that a lot of tunes I'd picked out for the mix had a lot of old jazzy samples, and trumpet samples (We No Speak Americano, Gramaphonedzie, Trumpet Dance etc), so I've taken a few jazz tracks and vocal samples of jazz musicians and I'm trying to work them in at the start and end. I like it when a mix has an overall theme, it gives it coherency or something.

Executive Steve

electrogrimey wrote: »

I think I'm pretty happy with my idea for this mix. It just so happened that a lot of tunes I'd picked out for the mix had a lot of old jazzy samples, and trumpet samples (We No Speak Americano, Gramaphonedzie, Trumpet Dance etc), so I've taken a few jazz tracks and vocal samples of jazz musicians and I'm trying to work them in at the start and end. I like it when a mix has an overall theme, it gives it coherency or something.

Sounds interesting, make sure you chuck up a link when it's done!

I'm incredibly lazy when it comes to doing mixes, I haven't actually recorded one since 2006...

Zascar

Executive Steve wrote: »

I'm incredibly lazy when it comes to doing mixes, I haven't actually recorded one since 2006...

:eek: Really, don't you like to have something to have and to remember? It's like a slice of your music taste from a certain time period...

I still have some of my very first ever mixes from 10 years ago when I started. I now try to record a mix every few months with a certain theme and I have most of them online in a blog. It's nice to be able to see how your music tastes change and your abilities increase subtly as well.

Would you not have some of your gigs recorded Steve? They'd be nice to look back on in years to come...

Paul1979

being able to mix up diff genres, nothing worse than listening to the same tempo/genre for 70mins, try and tell a story with the tunes, imo programming is more important than mixing

electrogrimey

Paul1979 wrote: »

being able to mix up diff genres, nothing worse than listening to the same tempo/genre for 70mins, try and tell a story with the tunes, imo programming is more important than mixing

Don't agree with this at all...90% of DJ mixes are the same genre. It's rare for DJs to mix different genres.

Paul1979

a monkey could mix same genre tempo for 70mins,
like u said 90% of mixes are one genre, thats the problem, what seperates your mix from everyone else who plays "electro or minimal"

electrogrimey

Paul1979 wrote: »

a monkey could mix same genre tempo for 70mins,
like u said 90% of mixes are one genre, thats the problem, what seperates your mix from everyone else who plays "electro or minimal"

Firstly because I don't play electro or minimal...I really don't understand your point. You think rambling an incohesive mix that jumps around different genres and doesn't have any structure is better than a well thought out, well put together mix that sticks to one genre?

Paul1979

no my point is that the mix has to be cohernt,that is where the skill comes in programming and assessing the flow/reading the crowd, the mix has to do something, maybe its my age but i dont like mixes of one genre. its boring, there is alot more to djing then be able to beatmatch, and imo the best djs in the world have the ability to cross genres and make it work, the likes of mr.scruff/theo parrish/giles peterson/louie vega/francois k/carl craig all do this

also guys like floating points and joy division have recently pit up really eclectic podcasts,mixing diff stuff up and making it mesch together

just my opinion on putting mixes together

Executive Steve

electrogrimey wrote: »

Firstly because I don't play electro or minimal...I really don't understand your point. You think rambling an incohesive mix that jumps around different genres and doesn't have any structure is better than a well thought out, well put together mix that sticks to one genre?

Just because you're crossing genres doesn't mean you have to be ramblin and incohesive though - I regularly mix Hip Hop, Dancehall, UK Garage, Dubstep, Bassline House, more Dubstep and then DnB, especially at house parties and the likes... It's great fun to do...

copeyhagen

my fav two djs for set structure are james holden and sasha

holden number 1 though, how he mixes some of them tunes on cdjs i will never know

electrogrimey

Paul1979 wrote: »

no my point is that the mix has to be cohernt,that is where the skill comes in programming and assessing the flow/reading the crowd, the mix has to do something, maybe its my age but i dont like mixes of one genre. its boring, there is alot more to djing then be able to beatmatch, and imo the best djs in the world have the ability to cross genres and make it work, the likes of mr.scruff/theo parrish/giles peterson/louie vega/francois k/carl craig all do this

also guys like floating points and joy division have recently pit up really eclectic podcasts,mixing diff stuff up and making it mesch together

just my opinion on putting mixes together

Nearly all of those artists you listed, especially Giles Peterson and Mr. Scruff are at the complete opposite end of the spectrum to me, and the rest of the people in this forum. They aren't house DJs, they make completely different kinds of mixes. That's like comparing a 2manydjs mix to someone making a promo mix for a techno night...

Paul1979

what?? theo parrish not house?? carl craig has produced some of the best house tracks of all time,

what is your def house?

ianuss

Paul1979 wrote: »

what?? theo parrish not house?? carl craig has produced some of the best house tracks of all time,

what is your def house?

And here comes a good 'ol fashioned genre debate...........

jtsuited

to be fair if theo parrish ain't house i have been barking up many a wrong tree.

electrogrimey

Paul1979 wrote: »

what?? theo parrish not house?? carl craig has produced some of the best house tracks of all time,

what is your def house?

As I said in my post (apart from saying nearly all anyway...) I was more talking about Giles Peterson and Mr. Scruff.

DaveyDave

I can see a reason for having a varying theme in a mix but I've never actually done it myself. I just pick good songs and put them together, any themes etc. would be 1 DJ vs another, a label mix or just a mix of 1 DJ's tracks.

BaZmO*

Louie Vega & Francois K would fall into the house category too.

Executive Steve

Zascar wrote: »

:eek: Really, don't you like to have something to have and to remember? It's like a slice of your music taste from a certain time period...

I still have some of my very first ever mixes from 10 years ago when I started. I now try to record a mix every few months with a certain theme and I have most of them online in a blog. It's nice to be able to see how your music tastes change and your abilities increase subtly as well.

Would you not have some of your gigs recorded Steve? They'd be nice to look back on in years to come...

I wrote a HUGE reply to this yesterday, and my session timed out and I lost the *^%^& post.

I do like to have something to remember, that's pretty much where my vinyl comes in, I have stories behind most of them, can remember where I played them first, where I bought them (finding a shoe shop in Lisbon with a random crate of classic jungle records and walking out with my arms bulging after only having dropped in to ask for directions, taking a three hour train ride to Brussels to go to a christmas sale in a record shop only to find out they didn't stock DnB and then finding a tune I'd been after for ages in their €1 bin)...

Not finished this reply, leaving it here till later though

joker77

With me and putting mixes together, it depends really what it's for - a live recording of a radio show, to give to some friends, to give to a demo to someone, to do up a mix of recently purchased tunes to just listen to them, just messing about, or to do an 'essential selection' type epic - 1.5 - 2 hours.

I'll take the last one - the essential selection type - where you're putting a good deal of thought into what the mix is about, tune selection and where you're placing them. If I'm doing one of these mixes, then yea I have to admit - they mostly follow a certain pattern and some people would call that cliched. In response, it's what I like to hear myself, it's a tried and trusted pattern and unless I'm experimenting then this is what I'll use.

Start tune - very important and requires the most effort. My mixes would generally fall into the tech house variety, but would also contain deep house, techno and minimal tracks. An essential of the first tune, for me, is that there are no beats in the intro. I like something slightly atmospheric maybe, with an intro of maybe 1-3/4 minutes before beats come in, and when they do they start off light.

From here for me it's about building, the next track is nearly as important as you have to take that atmospheric opener into something a little more of what the next part of the mix is going to be - for me that involves deeper sounds and a good bassline - the first track should hook the listener and ease in the beats, second track is to take that and move in more rhythm.

For me then - the next part can be between a half hour to an hour or so, where the theme is nice deep sounds, percussive tribal elements usually, and from looking at mixes I've done recently usually involve tracks with no vocals but broken 'spoken word' type parts. The idea is for me here is to build with each track.

The next part then is where it starts moving a bit more, tracks would be more 'clubby' - so you're building here for another half hour or so.

Next would be a few peak time ones, but most of the time I'd try to steer clear of overplayed 'anthems' / tracks that are too popular.

Finally, I'd like to end with something that has a nice melodic feel, with preferably a beatless outro.

Formulaic? Yea I suppose you could call it that, but hey - if it ain't broke then don't fix it

brianc27

i don't really think people should look too much into the theory of putting a mix together, its not rocket science, just play tracks you like that go well together, obviously there should be a nice flow to it but if you know your tracks then that shouldn't take too much time, i generally like to wind down my mixes in the last 3 or 4 tracks, might finish of with some ambient electronica or some weird industrial stuff, something a bit atmospheric and odd, thats only because i like alot of other electronic music thats not techno, might as well stick them on a mix if i can

Riesen_Meal

copeyhagen wrote: »

my fav two djs for set structure are james holden and sasha

holden number 1 though, how he mixes some of them tunes on cdjs i will never know

Sasha when he was a vinyl/cdj dj I would tend to agree, seems like he's on the 2000s with ableton these days, havent heard any of his recent sets though so I cant comment.....

Holden though, are you for real?

He's an awful dj in fairness, tunes all over the place, up and down like a yoyo, ive seen him loads aswell, great producer though!

Lovely guy aswell, had a few bifters with him and his missus after one of his gigs here.....