Garda to begin 'withdrawal of goodwill'

Sir Oxman

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0322/breaking4.html

Do they really have to use their own mobiles, laptops and cameras in doing their jobs?

Besides being very odd that they use their own items, would that not be a bit dodgy re: confidentiality etc

Seth Brundle

gambiaman wrote: »

Do they really have to use their own mobiles, laptops and cameras in doing their jobs?

Yes as the Govt don't supply then with enough.

gambiaman wrote: »

Besides being very odd that they use their own items, would that not be a bit dodgy re: confidentiality etc

Most probably

Its down to a lack of budget and has been like this for a ong time.

Sir Oxman

kbannon wrote: »

Yes as the Govt don't supply then with enough.
Most probably

Its down to a lack of budget and has been like this for a ong time.

That's shocking - through the pretend good times, our Guards hadn't enough funding.
What a kip!

FlutterinBantam

'Withdrawal of Goodwill':eek:

Time they withdrew their cocks from the taxpayers arses in my opinion.

:mad::mad:

ixoy

See that's an area ripe for reform - cut the pay perhaps but, in turn, provide the Gardai with mobiles and cameras required for their job. It could hardly cost that much right? I'm assuming, as it is, they can charge some phone calls against expense accounts.

FGR

Gardaí cannot claim for work related calls from their personal mobiles, I'm afraid.

Seth Brundle

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

'Withdrawal of Goodwill':eek:

Time they withdrew their cocks from the taxpayers arses in my opinion.

:mad::mad:

How in your view are their cocks in the taxpayers arses?
In fairness, they may be paid relatively well once they have completed training. However, would you volunteer to do the crappy jobs they do? Would you be as tactful telling a family that a member of their family was killed, etc.?

Boston

ixoy wrote: »

See that's an area ripe for reform - cut the pay perhaps but, in turn, provide the Gardai with mobiles and cameras required for their job. It could hardly cost that much right? I'm assuming, as it is, they can charge some phone calls against expense accounts.

The garda tetra system was up to recently (might well still be) a complete joke. Poor coverage and insecure. It's the reason they started using mobile phones which afair they're not officially allowed to use.

FlutterinBantam

kbannon wrote: »

How in your view are their cocks in the taxpayers arses?
In fairness, they may be paid relatively well once they have completed training. However, would you volunteer to do the crappy jobs they do? Would you be as tactful telling a family that a member of their family was killed, etc.?

Very simple, they can retire early on FULL PENSION-INDEX LINKED

What does that mean Flutt, you may well ask.?

Means that any pay increases an equivalent grade gets they get percentage of it too.

What would that cost in the Private sector Flutt?

Kings ransom my friend, that's what it would cost.

Of course it's a difficult and ofter thankless and harrowing job, but they don't have total ownership of those conditions.


Time people woke up to these myths and called a spade a spade.

The gardaí are reasonably well paid, have a pension that nobody in the private sector could afford if actuarily computed.

Do your job and stop trying to con JOHN Q TAXPAYER

Boston

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Very simple, they can retire early on FULL PENSION-INDEX LINKED

What does that mean Flutt, you may well ask.?

Means that any pay increases an equivalent grade gets they get percentage of it too.

What would that cost in the Private sector Flutt?

Kings ransom my friend, that's what it would cost.

Of course it's a difficult and ofter thankless and harrowing job, but they don't have total ownership of those conditions.


Time people woke up to these myths and called a spade a spade.

The gardaí are reasonably well paid, have a pension that nobody in the private sector could afford if actuarily computed.

Do your job and stop trying to con JOHN Q TAXPAYER

Sounds deadly Flutt, why aren't you a garda?

FlutterinBantam

Not cut out for it, but seriously.

They do a difficult job, but so do others, and they are not badly off by most standards.

This whinging by PS people on comparatively good wages, in practically unsackable positions is frankly getting tiresome.

They have certainty of tenure, certainty of a defined benefit gold plated pension,whilst a lot of people in the Pvt. sector are redundant/on shrt weeks/have had their pay and conditions savaged whilst paying for a much less certain pension.

Surely they don't think they are fooling the taxpayer with this nonsense.

I'm surprised if they have you fooled Boston.

You are a smarter cookie than that I would opine.

Boston

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Not cut out for it, but seriously.

So what you're saying is that they have some skills or aptitude which you don't have and couldn't obtain. It's probably fair to say most people aren't cut out for it. As a private sector employee you should be well accustomed to people with rare abilities being paid more. Yes gardai get paid more then other civil servants, along with all the perks. But it's a lot harder to replace a garda officer then it is to replace a clerical officer, not least because a garda officer has to be trained for two years in Ireland whereas the likes of teachers, nurses, paper shufflers ect can come from anywhere through a variety of different routes.

Anyway, just like the prison officers, the real issue is overtime pay and the simple solution is better management of resources.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Boston wrote: »

Sounds deadly Flutt, why aren't you a garda?

Maybe he is?!

alexlyons

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Time they withdrew their cocks from the taxpayers arses in my opinion.

kbannon wrote: »

Would you be as tactful telling a family that a member of their family was killed?

with that quote? not a chance

Boston

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Maybe he is?!

Did you read any of his posts? "They" vs "We"

molloyjazz

Well it just makes a old Corruption alot easier!

bryaner

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Very simple, they can retire early on FULL PENSION-INDEX LINKED

What does that mean Flutt, you may well ask.?

Means that any pay increases an equivalent grade gets they get percentage of it too.

What would that cost in the Private sector Flutt?

Kings ransom my friend, that's what it would cost.

Of course it's a difficult and ofter thankless and harrowing job, but they don't have total ownership of those conditions.


Time people woke up to these myths and called a spade a spade.

The gardaí are reasonably well paid, have a pension that nobody in the private sector could afford if actuarily computed.

Do your job and stop trying to con JOHN Q TAXPAYER

Maybe you should get a job as a Guard so

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Boston wrote: »

Did you read any of his posts? "They" vs "We"

Ye-ahhh.... classic deception, my friend...

BlaasForRafa

Boston wrote: »

So what you're saying is that they have some skills or aptitude which you don't have and couldn't obtain. It's probably fair to say most people aren't cut out for it.

Have you met many guards? A lot of them are just thickos from kerry (no offence to thickos from kerry meant)

I like Ixoy's idea, give the guards proper laptops, work mobiles etc and cut some of their expenses, that would seem like a logical idea....which is probably why it isn't happening in the PS

Laminations

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Have you met many guards? A lot of them are just thickos from kerry

They are not so thick as to miss the concept of cause and effect.
They dont do their jobs, risk their lives in many cases out of an innate duty to the country, perhaps this is part of it but i'd bet they do their job for the money. And if you reduce the money they reduce the service. Its funny that for the majority of the PS they agreed to work for certain pay and are now being asked to take cuts in light of there being no money but on the other end we have NAMA whose board agreed a salary but are now getting pay rises? And people are here complaining about gardai?

Zambia

Im sorry can we confirm are some posters here in favour of giving every Serving Garda a Mobile phone?

Because that's just nuts.

Pygmalion

Zambia232 wrote: »

Im sorry can we confirm are some posters here in favour of giving every Serving Garda a Mobile phone?

Because that's just nuts.

The issue brought up wasn't whether they should be given one, but that they're expected to use their personal ones for Garda work.

As for whether it's nuts, I personally amn't sure I see the need for them to have mobiles on the job as they seem to communicate a lot by walkie-talkie, but I'll bite anyway.
Phones aren't that expensive if you keep in mind that the Gardaí wouldn't need a MP3 player, radio, support for external memory cards or whatever it is most phones have these days.
If they said "right we need a supplier for incredibly basic phones with only X, Y and Z features" they could probably get them massively cheap as long as they buy in bulk.

I mean yeah, spending no money at all is better than spending a small amount if you're looking at it from just that point of view, but if it can help increase their effectiveness it should be considered.
And to seriously consider whether or not it would be worth the cost would take a lot more information than what any of us have (apologies if someone reading this has access to a lot more information than I'd anticipated :P).

pah

Boston wrote: »

The garda tetra system was up to recently (might well still be) a complete joke. Poor coverage and insecure. It's the reason they started using mobile phones which afair they're not officially allowed to use.

The radio system as it stands is not very secure but tetra is being rolled out nationally and will be fully running shortly removing the need for mobile phone use on duty anyway as tetra is a gsm based radio system. Gardai had to use their mobiles due to bad coverage and security issues.

This is being referred to as a withdrawal of good will as members were using their own equipment to assist in their working duties regularly on a goodwill basis. The anger coming from this is more than just paycuts and levies it's also about being under resourced with vehicles, equipment and numbers from the recruitment freeze.

pah

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Have you met many guards? A lot of them are just thickos from kerry (no offence to thickos from kerry meant)

have you met any (insert occupation) a lot of them are just thickos from (insert location)

that's not contributing much to the topic on discussion and is wholly irrelevant

pah

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Very simple, they can retire early on FULL PENSION-INDEX LINKED

What does that mean Flutt, you may well ask.?

Means that any pay increases an equivalent grade gets they get percentage of it too.

What would that cost in the Private sector Flutt?

Kings ransom my friend, that's what it would cost.

Of course it's a difficult and ofter thankless and harrowing job, but they don't have total ownership of those conditions.


Time people woke up to these myths and called a spade a spade.

The gardaí are reasonably well paid, have a pension that nobody in the private sector could afford if actuarily computed.

Do your job and stop trying to con JOHN Q TAXPAYER

again i'm not opposed to the cuts to help restore the public finances but i don't think they're being implemented fairly across the board.

Pay increases also mean that contributions to the pension are also increased.

I am also john q taxpayer

TheNog

Boston wrote: »

The garda tetra system was up to recently (might well still be) a complete joke. Poor coverage and insecure. It's the reason they started using mobile phones which afair they're not officially allowed to use.

That is the old analogue radio system you are thinking of which is still in existance throughout much of the country. Tetra is being rolled out nationwide and is a secure network

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The gardaí are reasonably well paid, have a pension that nobody in the private sector could afford if actuarily computed.

Do your job and stop trying to con JOHN Q TAXPAYER

But we are doing our job, there is no change other than the withdrawal of our own equipment. I am no longer forking out a few hundred euro to buy a laptop just for work nor am I paying 20-30 euro a month to my mobile provider for work related calls. I dont see where the con of the John Q Taxpayer is.

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Have you met many guards? A lot of them are just thickos from kerry (no offence to thickos from kerry meant)

Many Gardai have third level qualifications before joining so no alot of us are not thickos

pah

there is also a BA in Policing Studies awarded by HETAC after graduating from Templemore. well over 2/3 of my class had degrees before going in.

Dannyboy83

Mobile phones are a relatively new phenomenon, how did they cope before the mobile phones?

Flamed Diving

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Not cut out for it, but seriously.

They do a difficult job, but so do others, and they are not badly off by most standards.

This whinging by PS people on comparatively good wages, in practically unsackable positions is frankly getting tiresome.

They have certainty of tenure, certainty of a defined benefit gold plated pension,whilst a lot of people in the Pvt. sector are redundant/on shrt weeks/have had their pay and conditions savaged whilst paying for a much less certain pension.

Surely they don't think they are fooling the taxpayer with this nonsense.

I'm surprised if they have you fooled Boston.

You are a smarter cookie than that I would opine.

My friend is a Garda in Dublin, and they explained to me that they arrest and detain junkies on a regular basis. Many of them start bashing their head off the back of the car, once inside, because they want to get their disease-ridden blood flowing into their mouth, with the hope that they can aim it into the mouths of the Gardai. My friend said that they simply accept that some day, some junkie will succeed, and they just hope that it will not be HIV. This is one of many such stories.

In my opinion, no job matches this level of difficulty.

Fuhrer

Flamed Diving wrote: »

My friend is a Garda in Dublin, and they explained to me that they arrest and detain junkies on a regular basis. Many of them start bashing their head off the back of the car, once inside, because they want to get their disease-ridden blood flowing into their mouth, with the hope that they can aim it into the mouths of the Gardai. My friend said that they simply accept that some day, some junkie will succeed, and they just hope that it will not be HIV. This is one of many such stories.

In my opinion, no job matches this level of difficulty.

Anyone smell that?


Smells like bull...

Flamed Diving

Fuhrer wrote: »

Anyone smell that?


Smells like bull...

If you are going to call me a liar, you may as well say it.

Fuhrer

Flamed Diving wrote: »

If you are going to call me a liar, you may as well say it.

The risk of catching HIV from spit is massively low


The risk of catching HIV from a needle is much higher, some occupations deal with junkies and needles a lot more the guards do.

deise blue

Fuhrer wrote: »

The risk of catching HIV from spit is massively low


The risk of catching HIV from a needle is much higher, some occupations deal with junkies and needles a lot more the guards do.

So low that if you were a Garda you would be willing to take the risk ?

Smells like bull**** to me !

Fuhrer

deise blue wrote: »

So low that if you were a Garda you would be willing to take the risk ?

Smells like bull**** to me !

Are you simple?


He said because of the risk of catching HIV the Guards was the most difficult job, I said the risk for catching HIV is much higher in other jobs.


Smells like stupid!

neilthefunkeone

Explain me this..

When does a member of the guards need to use a personal laptop?? When they are walking up and down o'connel street?? dont think so...
Rolling around in their cars? doubt it.. At checkpoints? not a chance..

Mobile phones?? Dont they have radios?? Very good radios at that!! Why would they need a mobile.. Not for ordering their dinner.. Friend is in the business of radios/receivers.. have listened in on occasion... I can tell you what the local super's chipper order is!!!

Camers i can give them that.. they may need to take pics of an assaulted victim/accused.. broken into car etc..
But anytime guards have been up to my house for a broken into car or arrest a shoplifter in work they have never produced a camera for anything!!!!

So i can only assume the disruption on these 3 things is not going to be hugely significant... But if someone can prove me wrong on these points ill happily listen!!

Fuhrer

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Explain me this..

When does a member of the guards need to use a personal laptop?? When they are walking up and down o'connel street?? dont think so...
Rolling around in their cars? doubt it.. At checkpoints? not a chance..

Mobile phones?? Dont they have radios?? Very good radios at that!! Why would they need a mobile.. Not for ordering their dinner.. Friend is in the business of radios/receivers.. have listened in on occasion... I can tell you what the local super's chipper order is!!!

Camers i can give them that.. they may need to take pics of an assaulted victim/accused.. broken into car etc..
But anytime guards have been up to my house for a broken into car or arrest a shoplifter in work they have never produced a camera for anything!!!!

So i can only assume the disruption on these 3 things is not going to be hugely significant... But if someone can prove me wrong on these points ill happily listen!!

Obviously they have stuff issued to them like computers and cameras but most of it is old, broken and already in use.

They use their own stuff to get the job down quicker.

pah

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Explain me this..

When does a member of the guards need to use a personal laptop?? When they are walking up and down o'connel street?? dont think so...
Rolling around in their cars? doubt it.. At checkpoints? not a chance..

Mobile phones?? Dont they have radios?? Very good radios at that!! Why would they need a mobile.. Not for ordering their dinner.. Friend is in the business of radios/receivers.. have listened in on occasion... I can tell you what the local super's chipper order is!!!

Camers i can give them that.. they may need to take pics of an assaulted victim/accused.. broken into car etc..
But anytime guards have been up to my house for a broken into car or arrest a shoplifter in work they have never produced a camera for anything!!!!

So i can only assume the disruption on these 3 things is not going to be hugely significant... But if someone can prove me wrong on these points ill happily listen!!

personal laptops needed to be used as the level of facilities available for preparing investigation files is poor in some stations.

The new radio system being implemented now is good the one thats been around for donkeys is not.

This won't have a huge effect on the public more so in an internal capacity

Flamed Diving

Fuhrer wrote: »

The risk of catching HIV from spit is massively low


The risk of catching HIV from a needle is much higher, some occupations deal with junkies and needles a lot more the guards do.

It's low, but not massively low. The HIV virus dies on contact with oxygen and/or lower than body temperature. However, if the virus can cocoon within the spitball, then transfer is possible. But let's concede the point to you anyway. All of it is bull****. It still remains a job where people are spitting blood at you.

Delightful. Where do I sign up?

Fuhrer

Flamed Diving wrote: »

It's low, but not massively low. The HIV virus dies on contact with oxygen and/or lower than body temperature. However, if the virus can cocoon within the spitball, then transfer is possible. But let's concede the point to you anyway. All of it is bull****. It still remains a job where people are spitting blood at you.

Delightful. Where do I sign up?

Also, given that friends and my dad were Guards and have never had blood spat at them, I call bull**** again!

But lets not let that get in the way of your Drama!

neilthefunkeone

pah wrote: »

personal laptops needed to be used as the level of facilities available for preparing investigation files is poor in some stations.

The new radio system being implemented now is good the one thats been around for donkeys is not.

This won't have a huge effect on the public more so in an internal capacity

Ok fair point..

I know its not the easiest of jobs at times im sure...

Flamed Diving

Fuhrer wrote: »

Also, given that friends and my dad were Guards and have never had blood spat at them, I call bull**** again!

But lets not let that get in the way of your Drama!

Ok, Fuhrer. I won't....

Fuhrer

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Ok, Fuhrer. I won't....

See that you dont...

Dannyboy83

pah wrote: »

personal laptops needed to be used as the level of facilities available for preparing investigation files is poor in some stations.

The new radio system being implemented now is good the one thats been around for donkeys is not.

This won't have a huge effect on the public more so in an internal capacity

I'm suprised tbh.

I have relatives working in the HSE and they are not allowed to even use a personal USB key.
Its better to waste the day drinking tea, than to use a personal USB key.
This is standard procedure.
You can get in major sh1t for ignoring it.

L5

Fuhrer wrote: »

Also, given that friends and my dad were Guards and have never had blood spat at them, I call bull**** again!

But lets not let that get in the way of your Drama!

depends where your stationed if youll see that happening. Outside Dublin, probably not. City centre Dublin, you might see it once a week or more. Ive seen it more times than I care to remember.

anymore

kbannon wrote: »

How in your view are their cocks in the taxpayers arses?
In fairness, they may be paid relatively well once they have completed training. However, would you volunteer to do the crappy jobs they do? Would you be as tactful telling a family that a member of their family was killed, etc.?

Tactful ? Tell that to the Mc Brearty family

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mcbrearty-sets-sights-on-donegal-dail-seat-2051129.html

pah

anymore wrote: »

Tactful ? Tell that to the Mc Brearty family

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mcbrearty-sets-sights-on-donegal-dail-seat-2051129.html

you've got too much tar on your brush there

MagicSean

anymore wrote: »

Tactful ? Tell that to the Mc Brearty family

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mcbrearty-sets-sights-on-donegal-dail-seat-2051129.html

I was of the impression that all involved were disciplined and a whole new reform of the garda informant system was brought about since that incident thanks to one of the tribunals. Don't see the point in dragging something like that up. Might as well blame a British soldier for their colleagues actions in 1916.

In relation to the blood thing. It happens more regular than you would think. I know four Gardaí who have been spit on or bitten. And HiV is only the most serious. There are many other diseases such as hep C. And it is not unusual to find needles on people so spit isnt the only thing to worry about.

targus

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Maybe he is?!

I wouldnt think so.. If you read his quotes he is obviously a bitter private sector worker with a gripe towards public servants. He is looking for a reaction so I wouldnt entertain getting involved in his narrow minded, mis-informed opinions.

As with all, I'm sure the opportunity was there for him to apply for a public sector job in the past. Like many others, he obviously passed up on the opportunity as public servants have been seen as poorly paid relative to the private sector during the boom years. Now with jobs in the private sector dried up he feels its fair game to 'have a go' at public servants.

However having viewed his previous posts and his choice of language its debatable whether a position in the public service could be found which would be suitable for his talents.

bamboozle

kbannon wrote: »

Yes as the Govt don't supply then with enough.
Most probably

Its down to a lack of budget and has been like this for a ong time.

why on earth didnt the garda unions/representatives highlight this instead of increased wages for their members during successive social partnership discussions?

MagicSean

bamboozle wrote: »

why on earth didnt the garda unions highlight this instead of increased wages for their members during successive social partnership discussions?

Gardaí have no unions. Not allowed. They have a lot of prohibitions. Running for political office for one. There's also many jobs they would be suited to take up as a second job, like security, but they are not allowed. I think this is why the G.R.A. want the pay restored. Because Gardaí are very limited in how they can supplement their wage.

bamboozle

k_mac wrote: »

Gardaí have no unions. Not allowed. They have a lot of prohibitions. Running for political office for one. There's also many jobs they would be suited to take up as a second job, like security, but they are not allowed. I think this is why the G.R.A. want the pay restored. Because Gardaí are very limited in how they can supplement their wage.

interesting post, i didnt know any of the above. my point still is the same though, why didnt the GRA negotiate improved conditions for its members when this was a land of milk and honey?

not trying to be smart but are gardai allowed supplement their income by coaching inter county football teams?