booing of the kicker...

glanman

after all the fuss and back slapping about how great our fans are at respecting the kicker, and not being like soccer fans, I thought it was disgraceful what the Irish fans did yesterday, yet no mention was made in the commentary. Parks was doing nothing wrong. I was half pleased for him to score after the idiotic behaviour of most the crowd.

JustinDee

A kicker has sixty seconds to take a kick and no more. That is what irked the crowd so much.

To be honest, I was more annoyed at the constant stream of late arrivals, early leavers, drinkers and smokers going for their umpteenth pint or cig.
I actually saw people leaving early with an Irish scrum in the Scots' third of the field with five minutes to go.
If I was thin-skinned, I'd feel I'd have to apologise on behalf of the sport for the game getting in the way of their day out.

LeeroyJones

During that kick was the closest I've ever come to booing the kicker and in hindsight I am delighted I didn't. I agree booing anyone is obnoxious and idiotic which is why I managed to hold myself back!

However Parks took more than the allocated time to take his kick, I couldn't tell you how much over but I would be surprised if he spent 90-120 seconds from when the tee came on(which is when the 1 minute begins I believe).

Can't deny the Scots their victory however and congratulations to them

thebaz

lets just applaud a kicker running the clock down for the last kick of the game , and widen his cheshire smirk .....

if you want to be petty you could moan about his post kick celebration - but i'm not - Ireland still have a top quality crowd , try Argentina away and then compare

phog

I posted this in the match thread but here goes again, for one of Sexton's kicks the ref stood behind him and spoke to him about the clock running even though Sexton was taking no more than usual over his kick, the Parks kick was in the 87th or 88th minute and it was fital that Ireland got the chance to re-start the game, any delay by Parks and I'm sure there was could mean that Ireland may not get that opportunity, yet, the ref never put the same time pressure on Parks. The booing was a reaction to that rather than trying to put the kicker off.

Lets be realistic here.

If it was the other way round, and O'Gara had a kick in the 76th minute to go into the lead, we sure as hell would want him to take his sweet time.

Firstly, to make sure that he gets it, don't forget Parks' kick was by no means a gimme!
Secondly, to make sure that if he misses it, the other team will have to do something special to get to the other end of the pitch to win the game.

Now, on the issue of booing, simply unacceptable, it does not happen in Irish rugby. Its an issue of respect, and manners, not much else. So all it does is reflect poorly on you, the booer.

The game is possibly moving away from the "gentleman's game" of old, but there are elements of it that we should certainly keep, and respect is one of these.

Risteard

phog wrote: »

I posted this in the match thread but here goes again, for one of Sexton's kicks the ref stood behind him and spoke to him about the clock running even though Sexton was taking no more than usual over his kick, the Parks kick was in the 87th or 88th minute and it was fital that Ireland got the chance to re-start the game, any delay by Parks and I'm sure there was could mean that Ireland may not get that opportunity, yet, the ref never put the same time pressure on Parks. The booing was a reaction to that rather than trying to put the kicker off.

I still stand by my theory that dead silence puts a kicker off even more.

gonnaplayrugby

idk i much prefer the french crowds.

Stev_o

JustinDee wrote: »

A kicker has sixty seconds to take a kick and no more. That is what irked the crowd so much.

Most kickers take 2 mins to line up a penalty, we are the exact same.

JustinDee

Stev_o wrote: »

Most kickers take 2 mins to line up a penalty, we are the exact same.

I wasn't justifying it.
As I said, what annoyed me more was numerous folk in the stand around me. I won't even get started on the two 'experts' sitting in the seats behind me.
People . . . they're the worst.

BoarHunter

any professional player would take the maximum time given in order to secure the result. I don't see why Parks would give ireland a favour in giving them more time than they need to sneak a try. that's pure nonsense.

I understand frustration but after all the lessons i have been given in thomond park i was just a bit surprised at the crowd reaction yesterday.

That is certainly the 09 Slam effect that popularized the game faster than you can teach new fans the etiquette ....

We had the same problem in France after the Football world cup in 98 .... so many people suddendly telling what to do yet they were interested in the game since just a few months and hadn't a clue ....

thomond2006

I hate it, it's bad form from the crowd and like Risteard says, when there is silence it actually puts off the kicker.

LeeroyJones

BoarHunter wrote: »

any professional player would take the maximum time given in order to secure the result. I don't see why Parks would give ireland a favour in giving them more time than they need to sneak a try. that's pure nonsense.

I understand frustration but after all the lessons i have been given in thomond park i was just a bit surprised at the crowd reaction yesterday.

That is certainly the 09 Slam effect that popularized the game faster than you can teach new fans the etiquette ....

We had the same problem in France after the Football world cup in 98 .... so many people suddendly telling what to do yet they were interested in the game since just a few months and hadn't a clue ....

True but I think the crowds frustration was not directed at Parks but rather at Jonathan Kaplan for not giving Parks a warning, at the least, like he did to Sexton when 50 or so seconds had elapsed.

I would actually applaud Parks for using this to his advantage because if ROG or Sexton had done something similar we'd applaud them. The problem was Kaplan not doing anything particularly when all the talk regarding refereeing is refereeing a match to the letter of the law!!!

Spud83

To me it was poor I was at the game and was frustrated with the length of time it was taking Park (it probably seemed long sitting in the crowd), however at no stage did I boo or hassle the kicker. However I agree with what was said earlier, the early leavers, late comers, nipping in and out, reading the program for half the game, annoys me more. It annoys because I know some of these people will be in the Aviva next year while I'll probably be stuck without a ticket.

JustinDee

BoarHunter wrote: »

That is certainly the 09 Slam effect that popularized the game faster than you can teach new fans the etiquette ....

So what's France's excuse then?

Aidric

Another reason the move back to Lansdowne can't come soon enough.

Dempsey

Risteard wrote: »

I still stand by my theory that dead silence puts a kicker off even more.

I think O'Gara said that too

castie

Didnt O Gara do exactly the same thing this year for munster?
And he was only kicking to touch but still took a minute before dispatching it into touch.

Brewster

I am glad someone posted about this topic as I would have done so myself. It was appalling behaviour, driven largely by a new breed of rugby fan in this country. Have no doubt about this folks. This isn't some form or arrogance either, I am simply stating a fact. After the game, I congratulated every scotsman in sight and apologised for the incident. At the time of the incident I turned around to lads behind me who were shouting abuse at Parks and I explained the rules to them that Parks was fully entitled to take his 60 secs. We would do exactly the same I said. They didn't like it one little bit either. Absolute rugby ignorance of the highest order. Yesterday was my 29th consecutive 6 Nations game home and away, a record Im very proud of. I am 32 years of age, going to Ireland matches with my father since I was a little boy and yesterday was the most embarassed Id ever felt as an Irish rugby fan. Shame on you all. You know who you are. :mad::mad:

LeeroyJones

Just thought some people might be interested in this. After my research (it's been a slow Sunday!) I have learned that regarding a goal-kick in rugby union the kicker has 60 seconds to take the kick from when the option of kicking to goal has been indicated.

http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/3/9/88/method-of-playing-the-match/method-of-scoring/taking-a-conversion-kick/#clause_88

This rule is under the Conversion heading but Rule (e) seems to be appropriate for penalty kicks.

The following clip is highlights of the match yesterday which shows Scotland won the penalty at 77:27 and the ball was struck at 78:52. Unfortunatly it does not show when the kick was indicated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn82srw6thQ

Anyway that's just for those who were curious. If the kick had cost us a championship or slam I may feel aggrieved but it didn't. Scotland were worth their win and if we had got something out of that game it would have sugar-coated a poor poor display on our part.

Brewster I do agree with you. Like I said earlier, I was annoyed myself at the time and had to bite my tongue mainly because Kaplan opted not to hurry Parks along like he did Sexton.

Brewster

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Just thought some people might be interested in this. After my research (it's been a slow Sunday!) I have learned that regarding a goal-kick in rugby union the kicker has 60 seconds to take the kick from when the option of kicking to goal has been indicated.

http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/3/9/88/method-of-playing-the-match/method-of-scoring/taking-a-conversion-kick/#clause_88

This rule is under the Conversion heading but Rule (e) seems to be appropriate for penalty kicks.

The following clip is highlights of the match yesterday which shows Scotland won the penalty at 77:27 and the ball was struck at 78:52. Unfortunatly it does not show when the kick was indicated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn82srw6thQ

Anyway that's just for those who were curious. If the kick had cost us a championship or slam I may feel aggrieved but it didn't. Scotland were worth their win and if we had got something out of that game it would have sugar-coated a poor poor display on our part.

Brewster I do agree with you. Like I said earlier, I was annoyed myself at the time and had to bite my tongue mainly because Kaplan opted not to hurry Parks along like he did Sexton.

To be honest, I wouldn't even be concerned whether he went over the 60 secs or not... Its disgusting behaviour eitherway. Its not like we all had a stop watch at the time, and we knew for a fact he had gone over his allocated time!!

d'Oracle

BoarHunter wrote: »

any professional player would take the maximum time given in order to secure the result. I don't see why Parks would give ireland a favour in giving them more time than they need to sneak a try. that's pure nonsense.

Here here.

GSOIRL

I was also at the game and had to tell a kid to shut up and stop shouting "Bender" repeatadly(I talking 20-30 times in a row) at Dan Parks as he lined up his kicks. Not just the last one. All the time his Father(well known head of an airline) was cracking up laughing thinking it was hilarious. As someone who has travelled the world and been to games in many countries, silence for the kicker has been something I've been proud the Irish do.

Let's keep in that way. If you're at a game and a person near you starts booing or shouting for the kicks tell them to shut up. The people around you will support you.

Digifriendly

Brewster wrote: »

I am glad someone posted about this topic as I would have done so myself. It was appalling behaviour, driven largely by a new breed of rugby fan in this country. Have no doubt about this folks. This isn't some form or arrogance either, I am simply stating a fact. After the game, I congratulated every scotsman in sight and apologised for the incident. At the time of the incident I turned around to lads behind me who were shouting abuse at Parks and I explained the rules to them that Parks was fully entitled to take his 60 secs. We would do exactly the same I said. They didn't like it one little bit either. Absolute rugby ignorance of the highest order. Yesterday was my 29th consecutive 6 Nations game home and away, a record Im very proud of. I am 32 years of age, going to Ireland matches with my father since I was a little boy and yesterday was the most embarassed Id ever felt as an Irish rugby fan. Shame on you all. You know who you are. :mad::mad:

Quite a record but how do you afford both the time and the money if that is not too personal a question?

Brewster

Digifriendly wrote: »

How on earth do you afford both the time and the money if that is not too personal a question?

I have an understanding wife I guess( she is a supporter too and gets to come most of the time!!) Im just a normal bloke with a normal 9-5 job, but following Irish team is my thing. I have kept my all ticket stubs since about year 2000 and I stick them in a scrapbook, its quite a collection!

I know the sacrifices I have had to make to follow the irish team everywhere, and thats why I got upset yesterday with the "so called" fans around me.

Unacceptable.

LeeroyJones

Brewster wrote: »

To be honest, I wouldn't even be concerned whether he went over the 60 secs or not... Its disgusting behaviour eitherway. Its not like we all had a stop watch at the time, and we knew for a fact he had gone over his allocated time!!

very true

outwest

imagine if o gara or sexton ever did that, my god would people be complaining about he took an extra 20 seconds, ireland had 80 mins to win the match,


it was disgraceful that so many seemed to join in,

Dempsey

outwest wrote: »

imagine if o gara or sexton ever did that, my god would people be complaining about he took an extra 20 seconds, ireland had 80 mins to win the match,


it was disgraceful that so many seemed to join in,

O'Gara has definitely done similar before, although I dont remember specifics. Sexton, if he hasnt done it already, has a long career and no doubt there will be a scenario where it will be the intelligent thing to do.

It is annoying that the fair weather rugby supporter was ignorant to Dan Park's right to take 60 seconds to kick. A couple of people reckon it was over the 60 seconds, i havent checked it myself, but if thats the case then the referee had a woeful game. getting 2 tries and a penalty wrong on 'black and white' rules isnt good enough at this level, especially with the TMO.

Maybe there is a case for the TMO to time penalties and be called upon if the referee has "forgotten" to time it.

gonnaplayrugby

ok its human nature. your team is on the verge of losing...time seems to slow down...it wouldnt be natural to not get worked up when ur team is on the verge of losing.

Dempsey

gonnaplayrugby wrote: »

ok its human nature. your team is on the verge of losing...time seems to slow down...it wouldnt be natural to not get worked up when ur team is on the verge of losing.

Agreed with human nature but it smacked of desperation because these fans were witnessing a "france-esque" performance. I've nothing but praise for Parks though, those irish fans up the ante with the jeering, and now he will sleep at night soundly because he nailed that pressure kick in the face of desperate supporters.

I wonder if we'll see many of those supporters in the "Aviva Stadium" when getting tickets isnt as easy as logging into ticketmaster :pac:

davyjose

BoarHunter wrote: »

any professional player would take the maximum time given in order to secure the result. I don't see why Parks would give ireland a favour in giving them more time than they need to sneak a try. that's pure nonsense.

So Parks allowed to bend the rules in his favour, but the fans are the ones out of order for booing him?

Cop on. He was suiting himself, and the fans were calling him out on it. I'm sick of this stiff upper lip bs anyway. Your at home, it's supposed to be an advantage. Watch an American Football game, the fans scream and roar when the opposing team are in their huddle. It's part of the game, and it's great. It's not bloody tennis or snooker, lads. It's a high octane sport with crowds of up to 80,000 at times. Get real.

Seifer

davyjose wrote: »

So Parks allowed to bend the rules in his favour, but the fans are the ones out of order for booing him?

Cop on. He was suiting himself, and the fans were calling him out on it. I'm sick of this stiff upper lip bs anyway. Your at home, it's supposed to be an advantage. Watch an American Football game, the fans scream and roar when the opposing team are in their huddle. It's part of the game, and it's great. It's not bloody tennis or snooker, lads. It's a high octane sport with crowds of up to 80,000 at times. Get real.

Don't interrupt. This thread was created for mutual back-slapping only.

[/sarcasm]

Rabble rabble fair-weather fans rabble rabble get back to Aviva

irishbucsfan

davyjose wrote: »

So Parks allowed to bend the rules in his favour, but the fans are the ones out of order for booing him?

Cop on. He was suiting himself, and the fans were calling him out on it. I'm sick of this stiff upper lip bs anyway. Your at home, it's supposed to be an advantage. Watch an American Football game, the fans scream and roar when the opposing team are in their huddle. It's part of the game, and it's great. It's not bloody tennis or snooker, lads. It's a high octane sport with crowds of up to 80,000 at times. Get real.

Where exactly did Parks bend the rules at all?

You liken Rugby to American Football. I'm actually a huge fan of NFL and NCAA football (the "bucs" in my user name refers to the Buccaneers) but their supporters are atrocious. We're nothing like them, and I hope things remain that way.

Dempsey

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Where exactly did Parks bend the rules at all?

Did you time his kick?

Sabre0001

davyjose wrote: »

So Parks allowed to bend the rules in his favour, but the fans are the ones out of order for booing him?

Cop on. He was suiting himself, and the fans were calling him out on it. I'm sick of this stiff upper lip bs anyway. Your at home, it's supposed to be an advantage. Watch an American Football game, the fans scream and roar when the opposing team are in their huddle. It's part of the game, and it's great. It's not bloody tennis or snooker, lads. It's a high octane sport with crowds of up to 80,000 at times. Get real.

Got two iffy trys awarded without even a thought of checking the TMO. Think we got ours...

No, it's not Snooker, etc. but the Irish apparently pride themselves on silence in the face of pressure moments such as this. We have enough American-isms creeping into the game with music after scores and cheerleaders (can't complain too much about that one) - screaming at the kicker hasn't been a tradition here and it would be sad to lose it.

And also, as stated by others - the silence is often more off-putting it seems...

irishbucsfan

Dempsey wrote: »

Did you time his kick?

According to another post there was just about 90 seconds from the time the penalty was blown until the ball was struck. Parks has 60 seconds from the time he indicates a kick at goal (or is it places the ball?). I haven't seen a full video of it back (didn't record it) but I would easilly believe that 30 seconds passed from the time the penalty was blown and he indicated the kick or placed the ball. Even if he delayed by 10 or 20 seconds it's no reason to resort to booing, We're not children.

EDIT: "The kicker must take the kick within one minute from the time the kicker has indicated an intention to kick. The intention to kick is signalled by the arrival of the kicking tee or sand, or the player makes a mark on the ground" - IRB. That's interesting.

Skid

I don't know why they don't change the rules on this.

Stop the match clock when the kicker opts for a kick at Goal at a penalty, then restart at the point where the kicker makes contact with the ball.

When a try is scored, stop the clock until the conversion is attempted

I realise It would extend the game time by a few minutes in each half, but it would cut out this time wasting at Goal Kicks which has crept into the game recently.

Dempsey

irishbucsfan wrote: »

According to another post there was just about 90 seconds from the time the penalty was blown until the ball was struck. Parks has 60 seconds from the time he indicates a kick at goal (or is it places the ball?). I haven't seen a full video of it back (didn't record it) but I would easilly believe that 30 seconds passed from the time the penalty was blown and he indicated the kick or placed the ball. Even if he delayed by 10 or 20 seconds it's no reason to resort to booing, We're not children.

I'm fairly sure its from when he gets the kicking tee.

I said in another thread that I didnt time it myself but I reckon the referee was ball watching in any case because he had a woeful game.

I dont see the booing scenario like you and others, for me, a kicker should be able to deal with it everytime. There are hypothetical why i have my stance but the main one is that the rest of the rugby world will not respect kicks at goal when in a scenario that goes against them. History remember the winners not the small factors like who booed who during a match. I have no time for moral victories.

outwest

what really annoys me is the double standards that are being applied, whenever ireland have done the same in taking more the min with the kick noone complains, even opposition supporters say nothing, but it happpen to us a thier is a debate weather its right or wrong.

its wrong, this is rugby, a tradition is silence for opposition kicking, parks didnt get boo'd for taking a min he got boo'd from the min he lined up his kick.

could the fans who agree with booing the kicker, were the home team we should get an advantage please jump off the bandwagen and go support the irish soccer team.

padz

boo declan kidney, whats he at puttin sexton on, if he had of made his kicks this thread wouldnt exist, seams after the french game the irish team couldnt be arsed with the rest of the matches, take as much time as you want for for your kick well done parks at least you can score em

Dempsey

outwest wrote: »

what really annoys me is the double standards that are being applied, whenever ireland have done the same in taking more the min with the kick noone complains, even opposition supporters say nothing, but it happpen to us a thier is a debate weather its right or wrong.

its wrong, this is rugby, a tradition is silence for opposition kicking, parks didnt get boo'd for taking a min he got boo'd from the min he lined up his kick.

could the fans who agree with booing the kicker, were the home team we should get an advantage please jump off the bandwagen and go support the irish soccer team.

But isnt that what being a supporter is all about? They never care about the double standards, its about my team and nothing else.

I always never had a problem with "putting off" the opposition kicker,I'm pissed off that you treat me with such comments, please treat me with more respect.

irishbucsfan

Dempsey wrote: »

I'm pissed off that you treat me with such comments, please treat me with more respect.

Respect?

outwest

ya but rugby always had the tradition of respect for oppositon kickers, u go to any AIL games and you would get opposition respecting the kicker.

why start booing, mainly because the crowd were so quiet during the match the said hey last min lets boo the kicker, when instead as a supporter you should try and left the team.

Dempsey

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Respect?

Yea, several holier than thou rugby supporters have been labelling other fans, i dont like it. I know I'm outspoken with regard to kicking at goal.

You dont see me disrespecting your views

irishbucsfan

Dempsey wrote: »

Yea, several holier than thou rugby supporters have been labelling other fans, i dont like it. I know I'm outspoken with regard to kicking at goal.

You dont see me disrespecting your views

We're disrespecting your disrespect.

Why boo? Why put off the opposition? Why not just be quiet and let him do his job, and then have the oppostion fans do the same? It's good that you bring up respect because it's exactly what you're lacking when it comes to opposition kickers. Respect is a hugely important word in rugby and it's a tradition were proud of. We respect our referees and our opposition, and that extends to allowing him kick without resulting to the childishness of making noise at him to try and make him miss.

I just don't see why you would boo

Dempsey

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We're disrespecting your disrespect.

Why boo? Why put off the opposition? Why not just be quiet and let him do his job, and then have the oppostion fans do the same? It's good that you bring up respect because it's exactly what you're lacking when it comes to opposition kickers. Respect is a hugely important word in rugby and it's a tradition were proud of. We respect our referees and our opposition, and that extends to allowing him kick without resulting to the childishness of making noise at him to try and make him miss.

I just don't see why you would boo

Why I would Boo????

I never said I booed nor did I say I would.

I'm firmly in the camp that silence unnerves a kicker more. You can take your calls of me being childish and shove them up your holier than thou hole.

What exactly makes you a better fan than me??

irishbucsfan

Dempsey wrote: »

Why I would Boo????

I never said I booed nor did I say I would.

I'm firmly in the camp that silence unnerves a kicker more. You can take your calls of me being childish and shove them up your holier than thou hole.

What exactly makes you a better fan than me??

I never said you did any of those things and I never called you childish. I said that anyone who booed is childish, and if you are one of those people then yes I think you were. I certainly never called myself a better fan than you.

I don't want this to be personal.

If you believe silence unnerves a kicker more then why would you boo?

Dempsey

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I never said you did any of those things and I never called you childish. I said that anyone who booed is childish, and if you are one of those people then yes I think you were. I certainly never called myself a better fan than you.

I don't want this to be personal.

If you believe silence unnerves a kicker more then why would you boo?

Sorry mate, I thought you were calling me out on that.

I wouldnt boo a kicker but I dont think anyone that does boo, is particularly a bad fan etc.

I think my views on kicking just to be very different to the norm but i understand yours and i hope you respect mine

Jordan Berbatov

Aidric wrote: »

Another reason the move back to Lansdowne can't come soon enough.

Dont agree with the booing, but thats snobbery at it's highest level. If it wasn't for Croke Park there wouldn't have been days like this, where the upmost respect was shown to the opposition, and one of the most memorable days in Irish rugby was had.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Aidric wrote: »

Another reason the move back to Lansdowne can't come soon enough.

Too right, how dare we allow the hoi polloi in to view our sport.

bog master

Time line as per RTE recording:

71:46 whistle blows awarding penalty
Camera does cut away from field of play for a bit
72.25 can be seen with kicking tee, whether he just got it or had it for some time, cannot tell
73.08 contact with the ball