Rules Query

FlutterinBantam

Here's a bit of a long winded one, will try to keep it concise.

Foursome competition player A on par 3 launches ball into jungle territory left of green.

His partner player B drills a provisional ball to 3 feet of the pin.

Are they entitled not to look for the first ball.?

if on approach to the green they spot the first ball in big trouble in the jungle must they play it.?

Are they entitled to approach the green from the other side away from the jungle to avoid any chance of spotting their first ball.

I have a fair idea of the answers but would be interested in other opinions.

This was not matchplay.

Daithio9

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Here's a bit of a long winded one, will try to keep it concise.

Foursome competition player A on par 3 launches ball into jungle territory left of green.

His partner player B drills a provisional ball to 3 feet of the pin.

Are they entitled not to look for the first ball.?

if on approach to the green they spot the first ball in big trouble in the jungle must they play it.?

Are they entitled to approach the green from the other side away from the jungle to avoid any chance of spotting their first ball.

I have a fair idea of the answers but would be interested in other opinions.

This was not matchplay.

Yes you don't have to look for the original ball after playing a provisional, but if you see/find the original ball you must play it.
It's interesting to note that while you and your partner don't have to look for the original ball if you so wish, your playing opponents are entilted to look for it and if they find it you must play it.

FlutterinBantam

Yes that's what I thought.

What's your view on walking around the other side of the green to avoid finding the original ball?

FlutterinBantam

Daithio9 wrote: »

Yes you don't have to look for the original ball after playing a provisional, but if you see/find the original ball you must play it.
It's interesting to note that while you and your partner don't have to look for the original ball if you so wish, your playing opponents are entilted to look for it and if they find it you must play it.

Yes happened in a South of Ireland years ago.

A player whacked his ball into thick gorse on a par 3,played a provo to 4 feet and abandoned the original ball.

However supporters in the gallery found the original ball within the allowed 5 mins. and he had to play it.

Bit of a barney over it at the time I believe.

Daithio9

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Yes that's what I thought.

What's your view on walking around the other side of the green to avoid finding the original ball?

I'll put it this way, no one can tell you where to walk or how to walk to your next shot as long as your not unduly delaying play I don't see how there could be an issue.

MasterKZG

This can be a sticky situation when your opponent is relucant to look for the orginal and move onto the provisional ball without even trying. This could cause friction among the group if the ball is found when it didnt want to be found by the opponent. Tread careful as i found out myself that people can be such a grouch and can make us all feel we have to walk on egg shells to avoid such snide comment throughout the course!!:mad::mad:

FlutterinBantam

Daithio9 wrote: »

I'll put it this way, no one can tell you where to walk or how to walk to your next shot as long as your not unduly delaying play I don't see how there could be an issue.

Hmmm.. from an etiquette point of view though?

Indeed, these are sticky little situations.

I certainly wouldn't initiate a search unless it was a matchplay important event, if my opponent didn't seem inclined to find a ball.

Daithio9

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Hmmm.. from an etiquette point of view though?

Etiquette wise, I don't see any issue as you are penalised stroke and distance.

Indeed, these are sticky little situations.

Tbh I don't think this one is sticky at all, while you can't declare a ball lost you can effectively do the same thing by your actions.

I certainly wouldn't initiate a search unless it was a matchplay important event, if my opponent didn't seem inclined to find a ball.

Yeah I definitely wouldn't persit in searching for a ball that my opponent clearly wasn't interested in looking for no matter what the circumstances, if anything I'd say it'd be contrary to the spirit of the game imo.

spacecoyote

had a similar situation myself out on Paddys Day. Playing my 2nd shot to a par 4, sliced fairly badly. Put down a provisional and pinged it to the middle of the green. So was lying 4 on the green with the provisional (was index 2, so I had 2 strokes). On the way up I got a call from two ladies who were playing off from a different hole and spotted my ball for me. So had to go over and play it out of some seriously hairy stuff. Ended up with a scratch...damn you kind ladies

reflog rehtona

Daithio9 wrote: »

your playing opponents are entilted to look for it and if they find it you must play it.

If it's unplayable I presume you have to drop one? Can you drop one on the fairway back towards tee on the line it entered the rough even if it wasn't pegged as a hazard?

ozymandias10

you drop it back in line with the pin

you actually have three options

I see Jason has put them up below

Jasonw

reflog rehtona wrote: »

If it's unplayable I presume you have to drop one? Can you drop one on the fairway back towards tee on the line it entered the rough even if it wasn't pegged as a hazard?

in a word, no.

if you declare a ball unplayable you have 3 options.

1. Drop within 2 clublengths not nearer the hole (any direction)
2. drop as far back as you like keeping the pin in line with where your ball was found.
3. Play another ball as near as possible to where you originally played from.

reflog rehtona

Thanks for the clarification!

It is the case that if the area is pegged that you can drop back on the fairway on the line that the ball entered the hazard. Isn't it?......

Speak Now

I was always under the impression (mistakenly obviously) that you could declare a ball lost without looking for it. Didn't know if someone else found it then you had to play it. Whatever about stroke play that could be very intersting in match play

ShriekingSheet

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

I was always under the impression (mistakenly obviously) that you could declare a ball lost without looking for it. Didn't know if someone else found it then you had to play it. Whatever about stroke play that could be very intersting in match play

As Daithi said, you can in a way declare it lost by your actions. If you feel your tee shot is somewhere you don't want to find it, you can play three from the tee straight away. By not saying it's a provisional, the first ball is immediately deemed lost (whether found or not).

ozymandias10

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

As Daithi said, you can in a way declare it lost by your actions. If you feel your tee shot is somewhere you don't want to find it, you can play three from the tee straight away. By not saying it's a provisional, the first ball is immediately deemed lost (whether found or not).

Correct sheet..but you must not declare it a provisional before you hit it.
By the way if you shanked one into the gorse 100yards away then hit a provisional 200 yards away on the fairway. If you walk up and hit the provisional that is now the ball in play and doesn't change even if the other ball is subsequently found by others. You have played your ball from beyond the pint of the first one