Buying SageTV STB.

techguy

Hi Guys,

I'm thinking of ordering a SageTV HD Theater from the Sagetv.com store.

I'm just wondering has anybody gotten stung for customs when shipping it over here.

Also, has anybody used the SageTV system over here with FTA and Analogue TV? Is it any good? The system seems nearly too good to be true for the kind of money involved..

Thanks.

subway

have you used sagetv? ive never gotten around to trying it.
#for the same money (or less second hand) you could also get an xbox360 extender and use media centre (if you have vista or 7)

techguy

I haven't used it but I hear that it's pretty cool. The xbox route wouldn't suite me at all for what I want to achieve.

I will be running SageTV Media Center on a server and use the extenders around the house to distribute the media.

subway

ok, i assume then that the sagetv does something that the xbox doesnt.
you can get a 30 day trial of sagetv so why not install and see how you get on, i cant imagine it would have any issues with a FTA/Analog/DTT setup as thats about as simple as you can go

would like to hear how you get on in comparison to the 360

techguy

I'm not too up on what the Xbox is capable of but the SageTV box can access downloaded music/tv/movies, watch TV and act as a PVR i.e. plan and record tv shows. There are also plugins that can display weather, stocks etc..

The sagetv box is supposedly silent aswell (no fans or hd) which is a big plus..

I'm gonna download the trial and see how it goes..

subway

the 360 can do all that also, noise is a bit of a factor with them, but basically it "extends" the windows medie center interface from your pc to whereever the xbox is.
supports full epg / recorded tv / mkv etc

might be worth a go while you still have your xbox waiting to be sold (just noticed your sig) if you have a media centre ready pc

techguy

Yea the 360 may work ok but I have no controllers or power supplies etc.. LOL!!

I'm definately going with SageTV and their box anyway. I installed it last night and it seems pretty cool. I've read review and I think it's much more flexible than Windows Media Centre.

The Sage box will be much friendlier aswell as the setup is for family and not me.

pauliewha

I have been using sagetv for four years or more with analogue, satellite and dvb-t tuners. I have hd 100 extenders and some hauppauge MVP's as extenders as well. (they use the sagetv ui). I have tried window mc but after using sage it is far more tweekable and will play anything you throw at it. Xbox's are very noisey and expensive and don't play as many formats as the sage extenders especially the hd200. I have commercial skipping, and a sage placeshifter setup so I can access my full sage libary and live tv from my laptop anywhere with wifi. I have posted my setup in the post you set up link. See geek tonic at the following url for info: http://www.geektonic.com/2008/11/sagetv-ultimate-guide.html

sfag31

People are getting confused here. That last poster is talking about a PC setup (i'm guessing).
The device you are getting is a settop box. I doubt if it will work here as the epg will be for america.

The pc sagetv s/w will work here butting setting up the epg for this country or the UK is mighty mighty difficult. I've done it using digiguide s/w. Once you get the epg working it works fairly well.
Sagetv is highly customable but very difficult to set up.

for a beginner I'd recommend a quiet powerful pc with windows 7 media center included, attached to your tv screen with a tv card - freesat if possible.

As it is I personally use sagetv over win 7 as transcoding is possible on older P$ machines.

subway

sfag31 wrote: »

People are getting confused here. That last poster is talking about a PC setup (i'm guessing).

are you sure it isnt you who is getting confused?
this is a htpc extender, not a stb like you would get for chorus
a pc setup is required

it "extends" the HTPC interface onto another system around the house. in this case the interface is sagetv. i use an xbox and windows 7 to do something similar

http://www.geektonic.com/2009/01/sagetv-hd200-hd-theater-geektonic.html

sfag31

ah - I see. I stand corrected.
In that case I do not understand its reason for being.
I bought a WD live for someone the other week for €120 approx off amazon.co.uk including a wifi adapter, and streams all kinds of media both ways.
Why would one buy this theater thing for more, plus customs charges. -Ability to record tv from you bedroom perhaps - ?.

sfag31

I've experience with the xbox as an extender. It works very well after you upgrade the firmware. It also plays sky stuff much better than the sky website does. Will work with xp as well as win 7.
But too darn noisy to have in your bedroom .

sfag31

fao techguy - if you run in to difficulty getting the epg setup then post here and I'll issue instructions.

techguy

sfag31 wrote: »

fao techguy - if you run in to difficulty getting the epg setup then post here and I'll issue instructions.

Thanks sfag31..

Out of interest, what EPG service are you using? Is it free of charge?

I was reading documentation on the SageTV site and they recommend tvtv.co.uk but that's something like £14 GBP per month, which is pretty sickening.

pauliewha

I use the radiotimes xmltv for my tv listings and the sagetv xmltv grabber to place it in sage. Once set up it works automaticly and with all my channels. There are simple setup instructions in the link I gave you and also on the sagetv forums. Register on the sage forums site and you will find endless help and information. I had no tax issues ordering my sage box. Just plugged it in and it worked instantly with the sage software, no adding extender bull. The online content with the extender is excellent and you can record online videos, youtube, google, movie clips etc by just pressing the record button on the remote. Brillant. The hd200 extender also works online independent of the sage pc if you want. Silently! There is new sage software v7 to be released soon and a new sagemc ui called ortus due anytime, cheak if out in the forum pages. PS the epg I use is free and tvtv is only £14 per year.

techguy

pauliewha wrote: »

I use the radiotimes xmltv for my tv listings and the sagetv xmltv grabber to place it in sage. Once set up it works automaticly and with all my channels. There are simple setup instructions in the link I gave you and also on the sagetv forums. Register on the sage forums site and you will find endless help and information. I had no tax issues ordering my sage box. Just plugged it in and it worked instantly with the sage software, no adding extender bull. The online content with the extender is excellent and you can record online videos, youtube, google, movie clips etc by just pressing the record button on the remote. Brillant. The hd200 extender also works online independent of the sage pc if you want. Silently! There is new sage software v7 to be released soon and a new sagemc ui called ortus due anytime, cheak if out in the forum pages. PS the epg I use is free and tvtv is only £14 per year.

Great post!

I assumed that the TvTv sub was monthly.. Sage definatley seems like the way to go alright.

What services are you currently using your Sage setup for? FTA, Sky, cable.

Also, what TV cards are you using? I plan on getting 2 tuner cards as I will have 2 sage clients. Do I need 2 cards for this or can I get multi tuner cards? Can I get a tuner card that will handle both the FTA satellite and analogue (rte) signals.

I really need to get reading about TV cards.. do you have any links from the top of your head?

Thanks.

pauliewha

I am currantly using three tuner cards. A hauppauge HVR 900 usb for analogue and digital terrestrial, a technotrend 3200 dvb s2 hd for freesat, and a hauppauge pvr 150 for analogue and to control and display my skybox. This card has it's own ir blaster to control any set top box and S video and composite inputs to connect to, brillant for sd boxes. I am adding a hauppauge HVR4000 soon which has analogue, digital terrestrial and hd sat all on one card.
The technotrend 3200 is a great card and is available in a version with a built in card cam. I plan to ditch my sky card when I get the new hvr4000. I have most of the channels for free with dvbT and freesat.
You can use a hauppauge HDPVR to connect and control HD set top boxes, they are expensive new but you you can get them on ebay for less.

I would recommend using extenders and not client pc's as they are silent and simple to use and upscale sd feeds.

Forget tvtv and use radiotimes xmltv: http://www.birtles.org.uk/xmltv/
Use sagetv xmltv: http://www.lmgestion.net/@en-us/4/22/54/article.asp

I use the doner version for a few euro just so the guide updates automaticly. It is not necessary.

sfag31

techguy wrote: »

Thanks sfag31..

Out of interest, what EPG service are you using? Is it free of charge?

I was reading documentation on the SageTV site and they recommend tvtv.co.uk but that's something like £14 GBP per month, which is pretty sickening.

I use digiguide.co.uk. Its very very good in its own right and lets you mix Irish & UK channels and has everything. You then need another bit of s/w - xmltv importer to get it into sagetv.

The most important bit of any pvr s/w is the epg and this is where non american users are badly served.
tv.tv.co.uk is difficult and incomplete, and £14 per year. Digiguide is cheaper and better value.

sagetv is reliable and allows transcoding (shrinking).
Best of all is win 7 media center but transcoding takes ages on anything but a quad processer machine.

If transcoding is not priority then use win 7 media center - free with the o/s.

pauliewha

Radiotimes also has uk and irish channels.

techguy

Thanks guys.. I'll be sure to read up this thread again, great advice.

BTW, I'll be going with the Sage STB's and the Sage Software as I don't think i've read any articles that discourage it's use. Everyone seems to love it.

pauliewha

Techguy if I can be of help please ask

techguy

pauliewha wrote: »

Techguy if I can be of help please ask

Will do, thanks!!

Black Sky

techguy just curious how is the SageTV trial going????

I use Digiguide for my TV epg source (Stg€15 per year approx )(switched from RTimes about 2 years ago...)
As pauliewha says lmgestion importer is best way to get it into SageTV then.
Just built a new Win7 (32bit) Server as switched from ntl to Satellite last year and had to get my F1 recording ability back for the racing season....:D

techguy

Hi Black_Sky,

I only tried SageTV briefly but I can say that I liked it a lot especially the amount of customisation available for it. I'll definately be going with it anyway.

Whats the spec of the server and what are you using it for? I'm really unsure about what CPU to go for.. I'm thinking an i7 as I don't want to be short on power but at the same time I don't want to be drawing too much electricity, ya get me.

soldsold

Hi,

I have been reading the geektonic blog for a while and was unsure if Sage TV would work in Ireland, good to see that it does!

I am at first fix stage on a new build, will have two main TV rooms, one dedicated upstairs home cinema, and a central wiring closet.

Im had planned to run 2 x Cat 6 to the tv and projector locations to stream 1080p content over HDMI.

Would any of you be able to list what would be needed to have a Sage T system running for the setup I have, hitting somewhere around the sweet spot of difficulty vs cost vs benefits?

ie cabling needed and hardware needed? Im finding it hard to picture the overall system, and my walls are chased and the electricians are waiting on instructions to pull wires.

Whay I would like is to be able to stream from a large NAS (eg 8tb) to the projector and tv's, automatically download series to the NAS to play whenever I want, and something thats easy to use and not buggy.

Thanks!

Steve

sfag31

My own house has a main tv computer wired to the eircom wifi router which is wired to the network point. This network point is wired back to the cisco switch at the top of the house.
There is a wd live tv in the bedroom and other rooms.

I have 4 sky digiboxes (freesat) in one central place feeding coaxal tv feed to 12 tv points (three to the tv room – one terrestrial and two satellite).
The only thing I would do different is have a network point in the best position in the house for spreading the wifi signal, and more coaxial to the tv computer for simultaneous recording.


So ……
First and foremost I would start with the tv you will be watching most.
I personally would plan on placing a quiet computer (mini or full tower) near this point.
Add as many tv cards as you can afford. Try one to see how well it works.

Plan on how to hide the wires from your computer to your tv and also the computer if you don’t want to see it. That will involve hiding the vga or dvi monitor cables, the sound card cable and so on. You may need wires such as remote control and usb’s from your computer too.



Plan on running lots of tv coaxial wires to the tv computer if you plan on recording more than one channel at a time. Eg one for rte terrestrial, fresat no 1, freesat no 2, etc.

Put a network point here - or better put two (eg one to your computer – one to your networked tv (if you get one in the future).
Put another network point where ever you want your projector.
By 8gb NAS I presume you mean 8TB.
Your network room should also be the distribution point for the tv in (from roof) and out (to rooms) cables.

Put a network point in every room that you have a telly – beside the telly.
Have a ‘switch’ in your network room upstairs or where ever it is.
All network cables return to here.
You can then connect your wifi internet router (eg eircom netopia) anywhere in the house that you have a network point and the internet access will be available to all network points.

Its possible to access all files at any network point by adding a wd tv live device (€100) at the remote network point. They work well.


Your NAS can reside anywhere but might as well put it in your network room.
One other option might be to have a couple of large hd’s (eg two 1.5tb’s) in your tv computer. Recording video files to NAS in realtime might not work so well due to network cable speeds.

Choose cat 6 or perhaps fibre optic.
Cables can run parallel to other wiring but not cross each other – I think.???

Personally I wouldn’t worry about remote tv recording from other rooms – just operate from the computer but that’s my preference. Viewing from other rooms is more important.

Run loads of coaxial from your roof to your central tv distribution point.

pauliewha

I would recommend one server pc with TV tuners (what ever combination you require) connected to a hub/switch with broadband access. Feed cat5/6 from the hub to every TV point you require sage and use sagetv extenders at each point. It’s cheaper and quieter than a pc at each point. You can view TV at each point from the server with full sage functionality. I have three extenders working this way and can use them all at the same time watching different or the same TV. It works brilliantly.

soldsold

Sfag31:

Thanks for the fast reply, and for the detail, I appreciate the time you have put in. If I could get the following questions answered it would really build my understanding...

1. When you say "This network point is wired back to the cisco switch at the top of the house" - is this a gigabit switch? I'm clueless here but I understand its fairly straightforward, I have been researching structural/ insulation/ condensation/ airtightness/ etc building stuff so while Ive read a lot in the wiring area I haven't been able to get a firm grasp.

2. Any concerns about excessive power usage from multiple WD live units or other standalone players compared to one central media streamer?

3. Is it 4 sky boxes because they all receive different stations?

4. How many coax cables would you suggest running to the tv's? I was planning 2 x cat6 for 1080p and 2 x coax.

5. Why place a computer near the TV? Is it to play dvd's? Otherwise why not hide it out of sight? I was thinking of putting a dvd player hidden under the top surface of a small table beside the couch in the main tv room, most stuff will be played from the NAS server but we may go to xtravision occasionally so a dvd player beside the couch would be useful. If for other reasons, the stairs is on the other side of the tv wall so under the stairs might be a good location for the PC?

6. When you say "hide the computer" are you talking about RF signals? Another area I'm not strong on...

3. TV cards - are they difficult to set up? Whats the main benefit? My only experience was with windows media center 2005 and I gave up shortly after starting. Is it worth the setup time to be able to record more than one channel at a time? I cant imagine more than 2 occasional simultaneous recordings in my house.

4. 8 TB is what I meant thanks for the correction, my 600 dvd's will fill a lot of space and raid 5 will reduce the 8TB considerably.

5. What cables from central wiring closet to tv's? I have read that 2 x cat 6 will carry 1080p without a glitch, which is what I want - no bugs, no crashes, even if it means spending a bit extra up front thats not a deal breaker.

6. When you say "Have a ‘switch’ in your network room upstairs or where ever it is", do you mean a gigabit switch?

7. If you have 4 or so coax cables coming in from the satellite dish(es) how are they connected to the dish? Ive heard of LNB but again Im new to this.

8. When you say "One other option might be to have a couple of large hd’s (eg two 1.5tb’s) in your tv computer. Recording video files to NAS in realtime might not work so well due to network cable speeds." Does this mean having a PC on 24-7 or firing it up to record a program? Again Im looking at this from an energy usage point of view. Any tips on the cables needed for this PC ie what is it connected to?

"Cables can run parallel to other wiring but not cross each other – I think.???" - is it not the other way around? don't run data parallel to other wiring but they can cross as the signal interference is minimal. This is an important one for me as my electrician says he can run the cables parallel within an inch of each other?

soldsold

Pauliewha:

SageTV sounds very promising, its about 8 months since I looked at it as Ive been busy building, its great to hear your positive views. The user interface looks very good too.

Two questions if you don't mind:

Is SageTV hard to set up?

Once set up does it "just work" or is there tweaking involved?

Thanks!

pauliewha

I found sage easy to setup and I have only average pc skills. Any problems I ever came across were quickly resolved by the forium members. I am using the new sage v7 ui at the moment and it works a treat for me. At the moment it does not have as many customisations as v6 or sagemc but its only on the go for a few days and is only a beta test version.
Once setup I find sage very reliable, it just works.