Dog killing birds

Mr_Hat

My sons dog has gone crazy the last week or so. She has been chasig after all the birds that have been flying around the last couple of days. This morning I saw her catch and kill a small bird. Im horrified and dont know what to do. How can I make her understand that killing birds is bad

crotalus667

Mr_Hat wrote: »

How can I make her understand that killing birds is bad

you cant you can only make it understand that some thing bad happens to it when it goes after a bird , even at that you are fighting nature . what type of dog is it ??

Darthvadar

My little hooligan was the same!....

Chasing and catching birds.... I don't think he intended to kill them, he just wanted to play, but the poor birds were dying of fright when they found themselves in his mouth!...

I solved the problem by putting a small bell on his collar... Didn't change the chasing instinct, but it gives the birds a better chance of escape...

Your pet shop will have bells...

Darth...

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Mr_Hat wrote: »

My sons dog has gone crazy the last week or so. She has been chasig after all the birds that have been flying around the last couple of days. This morning I saw her catch and kill a small bird. Im horrified and dont know what to do. How can I make her understand that killing birds is bad

Do people research before taking on new pets? I mean seriously, go read a few books on dogs, and don't presume you know everything about dogs before you get one.

It's a dog, it's acting like a dog, dogs kill wild animals. I mean, do you think a dog should behave like a human? Killing birds is not a bad thing, you are wrong to teach your dog that.

How many threads are on this forum that are like this one? Lots... I understand you are looking for information OP, and you will get it, but seriously, do some research on your potential pets before you get them, learn about them and how they act in the wild, you can't know everything about them but get the basics at the very least.

I am sadened when I see people acting horrified and shocked when their pets do something they are supposed to be doing. Seriously people...

IvySlayer

It's natural for a dog to hunt/kill. You can't suppress instinct. The bell on the collar is a good suggestion. Maybe place some bird food up high? Maybe a scarecrow to scare off birds?

CreedonsDogDayc

Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »

Do people research before taking on new pets? I mean seriously, go read a few books on dogs, and don't presume you know everything about dogs before you get one.

It's a dog, it's acting like a dog, dogs kill wild animals. I mean, do you think a dog should behave like a human? Killing birds is not a bad thing, you are wrong to teach your dog that.

How many threads are on this forum that are like this one? Lots... I understand you are looking for information OP, and you will get it, but seriously, do some research on your potential pets before you get them, learn about them and how they act in the wild, you can't know everything about them but get the basics at the very least.

I am sadened when I see people acting horrified and shocked when their pets do something they are supposed to be doing. Seriously people...

Ive owned many dogs all my life and i've never had one kill a bird. And we have lots of birds in our garden.

I would be shocked and upset if any of my dogs killed a bird. Not because i'd be surprised that its in a dogs nature, but because its sad to see any animal die, and sadder to know that it was caused by an animal I love.

Ive done a lot of courses in canines (animal grooming, canine studies, canine psychology etc.) and read many books. Killing wild animals has never been a major topic in any so I dont think its fair to accuse the OP of being uneducated in dog care.




OP I would agree with the suggestion to put a bell on the dog, and from your post im under the impression that it only began happening recently. Whats changed?

Is the dog getting less exercise, and therefore bored and just playing? More exercise should help if thats the case.

Have you recently begun feeding the dog outdoors? If so perhaps the dogs are getting cheeky and trying to get the dogs food. If so I'd suggest feeding the dog indoors.

peasant

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

Ive done a lot of courses in canines (animal grooming, canine studies, canine psychology etc.) and read many books. Killing wild animals has never been a major topic in any so I dont think its fair to accuse the OP of being uneducated in dog care.

You must have missed the bits in those books where dogs are classified as carnivores

Having said that, the hunting behaviour of dogs is controllable, especially so in your own back garden.

You have to be there though and watch your dog. Whenever your dog starts to display hunting behaviour (stalking, staring, following a scent), call it off and do something else with it instead. Play or do some small excercises ... something fun.

A dog that just hunts out of boredom will be easily persuaded to partake in other activities, one with a strong prey drive will need a stronger hand, close supervision and some patience ...but it can be done.

BTW...a good, regulated game of throw and fetch is a very good outlet for a strong prey drive.

CreedonsDogDayc

yes dogs are carnivores, that's covered (in dentition, digestion etc.), but in my opinion and experience dogs dont kill often. Obviously they no longer have to hunt for their own food, so, while the instinct is still there, they dont often hunt to kill, and more so play-stalk leaves, birds etc. but dont put much effort into it.

Warning potential dog owners that their dog is likely to kill local wildlife wouldn't be high in my list of preparing people for dog ownership:D!!

peasant

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

Warning potential dog owners that their dog is likely to kill local wildlife wouldn't be high in my list of preparing people for dog ownership:D!!

It should though, because they do (if not under proper control/tuition)

Pets become sheep slayers

Readers will be shocked by the pictures in this week’s paper of the bodies of lambs after they were savaged by dogs.
The brutal attack left 23 lambs dead and another 19 injured.
This was the worst so far of a number of incidents in the last couple of weeks.
It is the latest in a series of attacks all of which cause serious financial loss for the farmer, not to mention the cruelty to the sheep.
Farmers who have been the victims of marauding dogs say that until you've witnessed it first hand, it's hard to fathom the carnage dogs can cause.
Many dog owners may have a false sense of security about what their pet is capable of doing. That sweet little pet sitting at your feet can transform himself into a sheep slayer once he is given the opportunity.
While your dog may be harmless on his own, once he meets up with some of his friends the pack mentality can take over.

http://www.sligoweekender.ie/news/story/?trs=cwqlgbojid

just one example of many

Doge

Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »

Do people research before taking on new pets? I mean seriously, go read a few books on dogs, and don't presume you know everything about dogs before you get one.

It's a dog, it's acting like a dog, dogs kill wild animals. I mean, do you think a dog should behave like a human? Killing birds is not a bad thing, you are wrong to teach your dog that.

How many threads are on this forum that are like this one? Lots... I understand you are looking for information OP, and you will get it, but seriously, do some research on your potential pets before you get them, learn about them and how they act in the wild, you can't know everything about them but get the basics at the very least.

I am sadened when I see people acting horrified and shocked when their pets do something they are supposed to be doing. Seriously people...

You might want to calm down there old chap.

We have had 4 dogs down through the years,
and not ONE of them ever attacked birds.

And you shouldnt have to read a friggin book to see wether dogs should kill birds, i bet you'll find very little on that topic in the main sellers out there.

This has to be the biggest uncalled for drama i've ever witnessed on boards.ie!

As for the original question, i would recommend giving out to the dog the next time he makes a go for a bird,
or commanding him to stop.

Dogs pick up very well on our feelings, and most will know that they are doing wrong by your reaction.

If that fails a little slap on the nose (not too hard of course) might do the trick.

Or "tap" maybe, as a "slap" could be perceived as a hard hitting action by some.

I'd almost need to give the maximum force in newtons, in case Xavier starts freaking out on me too!

tyler71

+1 to the last post - a dog killing birds IS a bit unusual, our one tends to chase them out of the garden alright, I think it's a territorial thing, could be the same thing with the OP's dog, so disciplining or a bell could be options ok. I don't know if the poster claiming that 'dogs kill wild animals' has ever owned a dog, obviously breeds like terriers were originally reared for hunting rats or flushing out foxes, and hounds were obviously bred for long range hunting of large animals but killing small birds? That's what cats do, and they're pretty good at it so not really a dog speciality.

Michael B

Why do people on here so often have to attack other posters? Just because the OP didn't know his dog would kill birds doesn't mean he shouldn't own a dog or should read every book under the sun about dogs! :rolleyes:

Mr Hat my friend's dog does the same and they've tried everything, even a dog trainer! No luck, he still does it but he's grown out of it a bit so at least it's not as regular as it used to be. I'm not sure there's much you can do, if he wants to do it he will. Just like cats do, it's in their nature.

lrushe

Firstly OP is your dogs energy drained daily with an hour+ walk? Secondly has your dog been to obedience classes? In these classes they teach the 'look' command ie. offer a treat in an outstretched hand, then when your dog makes eye contact with you (not looking at the treat) you say 'look' and reward straight away, your dog will soon learn to look at you on command so if you see her going to attack a bird say 'look' and treat when she looks at you. Failing this give your dog plenty of better things to do in the back garden than chasing birds ie. a tasty bone, stuffed kong, plenty of toys etc.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

Ive owned many dogs all my life and i've never had one kill a bird. And we have lots of birds in our garden.

Ah, so by your experience no dogs hunt or kill birds. You are wrong if you think that.

I would be shocked and upset if any of my dogs killed a bird. Not because i'd be surprised that its in a dogs nature, but because its sad to see any animal die, and sadder to know that it was caused by an animal I love.

This is why you should understand your dog, or any pet for that matter, so if something like this does happen, which is perfectly natural, you won't be so shocked. Not all dogs do it, but it's not uncommon. Same with cats hunting birds or rabbits. People are in disbelief that they do this, but it's their basic instinct.

Ive done a lot of courses in canines (animal grooming, canine studies, canine psychology etc.) and read many books. Killing wild animals has never been a major topic in any so I dont think its fair to accuse the OP of being uneducated in dog care.

That's great, you got lots of knowledge on the animal you chose to keep as a pet, if only more done this. Thing is, some behavioural traits in pets won't be explained to you in these pet books, so you have to dig a little deeper, study the animal in it's natural habitat, which is in the wild. Then you will get a better understanding of the animal.

OP I would agree with the suggestion to put a bell on the dog, and from your post im under the impression that it only began happening recently. Whats changed?

It's quite possible that this is the only case that the OP has witnessed and this has happened in the past. The bell on the collar is a good idea, there are other things you can do too, but remember this is a basic instinct, not something unnatural or odd.

Is the dog getting less exercise, and therefore bored and just playing? More exercise should help if thats the case.

While tiring the dog out and channeling the energies into something benificial, I don't think this behaviour is for fun, I doubt the dog sees the birds as play things.

Does the dog leave the bird when it is dead or does it bring it to you OP?

Have you recently begun feeding the dog outdoors? If so perhaps the dogs are getting cheeky and trying to get the dogs food. If so I'd suggest feeding the dog indoors.

A possibility but highly unlikely.

waveform wrote: »

You might want to calm down there old chap.

I am quite calm, thanks for your concern

We have had 4 dogs down through the years,
and not ONE of them ever attacked birds.

4 is not a very big number compared to the amount of dogs there are in the world. You would need a bigger sample in order to have a good idea. Also, this is only something you have witnessed, you have no idea what they do when you are not looking, or at the very least, less of an idea. I know we would all love to know what they do be up to when we are not watching, but we don't. They might be at nothing, or they might be catching birds

And you shouldnt have to read a friggin book to see wether dogs should kill birds, i bet you'll find very little on that topic in the main sellers out there.

You are right, you wouldn't find much about them killing anything, chickens, pheasants, lambs etc etc. Why would books cover that? That doesn't make for a good read, but this does happen. To deny outright that this does not happen is not good. Dogs kill birds, amoungst other things. It's sad but true.

This has to be the biggest uncalled for drama i've ever witnessed on boards.ie!

A bit of an over statement to say the least.

tyler71 wrote: »

+1 to the last post - a dog killing birds IS a bit unusual

It's unusual for us to witness, definately, but it's not unusual behaviour.

our one tends to chase them out of the garden alright, I think it's a territorial thing, could be the same thing with the OP's dog, so disciplining or a bell could be options ok. I don't know if the poster claiming that 'dogs kill wild animals' has ever owned a dog, obviously breeds like terriers were originally reared for hunting rats or flushing out foxes, and hounds were obviously bred for long range hunting of large animals but killing small birds? That's what cats do, and they're pretty good at it so not really a dog speciality.

I have owned a variety of animals If it is me who you are referring to.
Dogs are predatory in nature, and this is a natural behavior. Taming a dog will not remove this trait.

Michael B wrote: »

Why do people on here so often have to attack other posters?

Often? It's not an attack, if it was it would have been worded completely different and I wouldn't be posting now

Just because the OP didn't know his dog would kill birds doesn't mean he shouldn't own a dog or should read every book under the sun about dogs! :rolleyes:

No, but at least have the courtesy and respect of the animal to do some research on it. Take a look at their habits, go further than the dog grooming books, study them in the wild, see what they do. You don't have to know every single thing, but in my opinion, this would be something I would want to know. Some may not care, that's understandable.

Mr Hat my friend's dog does the same and they've tried everything, even a dog trainer! No luck, he still does it but he's grown out of it a bit so at least it's not as regular as it used to be. I'm not sure there's much you can do, if he wants to do it he will. Just like cats do, it's in their nature.

Yay At least we agree on one thing

Bell seems to be the best thing to do, if you can put up with the noise that is

It gets to me when people purchase or take ownership of an animal and they don't know much about it. In some cases that's fine, taking care of an animal instead of putting it to sleep. I see people getting dogs, cats, fish, birds etc etc and not having a clue about them, they don't know how to treat them right and when they do natural things the owners freak out completely. Why would you get an animal you know very little about? I don't understand that at all.

CreedonsDogDayc

Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »

Ah, so by your experience no dogs hunt or kill birds. You are wrong if you think that.

thats clearly not what I said. Please don't put words in my mouth. I'm sure the other posters here understand what I said. In my experience, I've never seen any of my dogs kill a bird (nor have I seen evidence of it happening... feathers, dead bird, etc.).

Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »

This is why you should understand your dog, or any pet for that matter, so if something like this does happen, which is perfectly natural, you won't be so shocked. Not all dogs do it, but it's not uncommon. Same with cats hunting birds or rabbits. People are in disbelief that they do this, but it's their basic instinct.

I understand my dog.
I also have an honours degree in Zoology from UCC, so I understand animals, predation, circle of life, and so on.
Im not shocked that animals kill animals, but, again, i would be shocked if my dogs killed an animal. Tthe instinct for preditory drift is not high in many dogs. My dogs in the past havent even blinked an eye at our rabbits, guinea pigs, budgies, and wild birds.

Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »

That's great, you got lots of knowledge on the animal you chose to keep as a pet, if only more done this. Thing is, some behavioural traits in pets won't be explained to you in these pet books, so you have to dig a little deeper, study the animal in it's natural habitat, which is in the wild. Then you will get a better understanding of the animal.

Then why did you tell the OP to "I mean seriously, go read a few books on dogs" you've just admitted that "some behavioural traits in pets wont be explained in these books" so you've just contradicted yourself !
Many dog owners do a lot of research before getting a dog, but in my opinion, the chances of their dog killing another animal is very rare so its not a topic that they are likely to research!

Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »

It's quite possible that this is the only case that the OP has witnessed and this has happened in the past.

Chances are they would have found evidence of this.

Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »

4 is not a very big number compared to the amount of dogs there are in the world. You would need a bigger sample in order to have a good idea. Also, this is only something you have witnessed, you have no idea what they do when you are not looking, or at the very least, less of an idea. I know we would all love to know what they do be up to when we are not watching, but we don't. They might be at nothing, or they might be catching birds

I've owned 6 dogs through my live, variety of breeds/cross breeds, none have ever killed an animal. Might be interesting to do a survey here. See how many dog owners here have had their dog kill an animal, and which breed it was.

I have also worked full-time as a dog walker over the last three years. The dog owners like to report back to me with any events and behavioural changes in the dog (good and bad) no word of any of them killing an animal yet!

Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »

You are right, you wouldn't find much about them killing anything, chickens, pheasants, lambs etc etc. Why would books cover that? That doesn't make for a good read, but this does happen. To deny outright that this does not happen is not good. Dogs kill birds, amoungst other things. It's sad but true.

I dont think anyone is denying that it happens, but what people are arguing is that it is rare and it is unlikely to be a major factor in your training of your dog.

Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »

It's unusual for us to witness, definately, but it's not unusual behaviour.

I dont get why you think that our dogs are killing birds without us knowing. Are you suggesting they eat the bird whole?

Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »

It gets to me when people purchase or take ownership of an animal and they don't know much about it. Why would you get an animal you know very little about? I don't understand that at all.

The OP doesnt own the dog. She said its her son so to tell her to go read some books is unfair, she's better coming straight on boards (as she did) where she can describe the situation and get some advice!!

star-pants

Mod warning - guys I'm not having this turn into another pointless debate where no one can be civil - so if people can post helpful posts and not berate the OP for being surprised that their dog killed a bird

Doge

In response to my previous comment about tapping the dog on the nose.

I only meant this as an extreme last resort, if nothing else worked.

When i think of the likes of the English Dog Trainer on TV,
and that Hispanic dude (I couldnt tell you the peoples names or the name of their programs for the life of me)...
they are proof that you do not need to resort to hitting a dog,
to teach them better.

Maybe a bit of psychology with dog treats could do the trick,
would take a lot of work and reading up on that area though.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

thats clearly not what I said. Please don't put words in my mouth. I'm sure the other posters here understand what I said. In my experience, I've never seen any of my dogs kill a bird (nor have I seen evidence of it happening... feathers, dead bird, etc.).

I understand my dog.
I also have an honours degree in Zoology from UCC, so I understand animals, predation, circle of life, and so on.
Im not shocked that animals kill animals, but, again, i would be shocked if my dogs killed an animal. Tthe instinct for preditory drift is not high in many dogs. My dogs in the past havent even blinked an eye at our rabbits, guinea pigs, budgies, and wild birds.

Then why did you tell the OP to "I mean seriously, go read a few books on dogs" you've just admitted that "some behavioural traits in pets wont be explained in these books" so you've just contradicted yourself !
Many dog owners do a lot of research before getting a dog, but in my opinion, the chances of their dog killing another animal is very rare so its not a topic that they are likely to research!

Chances are they would have found evidence of this.

I've owned 6 dogs through my live, variety of breeds/cross breeds, none have ever killed an animal. Might be interesting to do a survey here. See how many dog owners here have had their dog kill an animal, and which breed it was.

I have also worked full-time as a dog walker over the last three years. The dog owners like to report back to me with any events and behavioural changes in the dog (good and bad) no word of any of them killing an animal yet!

I dont think anyone is denying that it happens, but what people are arguing is that it is rare and it is unlikely to be a major factor in your training of your dog.

I dont get why you think that our dogs are killing birds without us knowing. Are you suggesting they eat the bird whole?

The OP doesnt own the dog. She said its her son so to tell her to go read some books is unfair, she's better coming straight on boards (as she did) where she can describe the situation and get some advice!!

Lets not argue about trivial things. What I said was a metaphor. You know some books are great for certain things, but they will exclude the gritty details of some animals. You will have to look at other mediums to find this out.

There are also other factors involved, such as where you live. I don't live in a city, I live in a town, before that I lived in the sticks and before that I lived in a city. They are different habitats, with different types of wildlife and behaviours. While a dog in a city might be scavaging in bins, dogs in the countryside may be chasing rabbits, sheep and birds.

From my experience I have witnessed first hand dogs doing some serious damage to wildstock. Two lovely springers got into a pheasant pen and killed them all, a pack of dogs killing lambs, my own dog killing blackbirds and other birds, he brings them back to us quite a lot, leaves them on the door step for us. It's cute. I have other dogs that didn't hunt birds, but they did hunt rabbits. The dog I have now doesn't go near our avary, or our rabbits. Dogs also bury food. This is another instinct so it is possible that you may not witness your dog killing any animal, in a lot of cases this would be impossible, but in my case it would not as we have a lot of land surrounding us.

I didn't go to college to study wildlife, I got the knowledge I have now from my father, who got it from his fater and so on. From a young age we were exposed to the wonders and cruelties of nature. Best education I recieved as a child.

ghost_ie

Darthvadar wrote: »

My little hooligan was the same!....

Chasing and catching birds.... I don't think he intended to kill them, he just wanted to play, but the poor birds were dying of fright when they found themselves in his mouth!...

I solved the problem by putting a small bell on his collar... Didn't change the chasing instinct, but it gives the birds a better chance of escape...

Your pet shop will have bells...

Darth...

Thanks for the tip. My youngest JRT caught a young sparrow last year (there wasn't a mark on the bird - it must have died of shock) and I wasn't looking forward to the same thing happening this year. Young Daisy will be wearing a bell from tomorrow on.

peasant

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

I've owned 6 dogs through my live, variety of breeds/cross breeds, none have ever killed an animal. Might be interesting to do a survey here. See how many dog owners here have had their dog kill an animal, and which breed it was.

just on that note:

We have three dogs, two herders and a terrier.
The herding dogs are generally desinterested in hunting (although I wouldn't want to guarantee them around sheep), one of them doesn't like cats though and we would never leave him alone with them.

The terrier is a killer, no other word for it.
So far she has dug up several rats and mice and killed one pidgeon in our garden. (We have managed to train her to leave the birds around the feeding station alone, though)
Outside of the fenced in garden she is always on the lead, as she couldn't be trusted.
She is also the most affectionate and people orientated of the three. To see her inside you would never think that she turns into a killer once on the lose.

Whispered

Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »

From a young age we were exposed to the wonders and cruelties of nature. Best education I recieved as a child.

I think this is lovely. I grew up in the country and I think that I can actually pick one specific moment in time where I "grew up" thanks to the cruelty of nature. There is a lot to be said for listening to older and wiser people and just watching how the world works. Sometimes nature can be incredibly cruel. But the wonders more than make up for it.

peasant wrote: »

To see her inside you would never think that she turns into a killer once on the lose.

I have a cat who now can only be let out in the middle of the day. She's a super huntress. I only ever got one bird but the mice show up all the time. She is so small and sweet and delicate looking in the house. Her brother is a big tom who looks like a real alley cat but is the biggest scardy cat going. I left a full chicken carcass down for them once. She, the delicate little flower that she is, dived on the carcass and buried her head in it like some sort of feeding frenzy. He sat beside it, licking it. :rolleyes:

It can be easy to forget at times that your pet is an animal, they become a part of your family.

Darthvadar

ghost_ie wrote: »

Thanks for the tip. My youngest JRT caught a young sparrow last year (there wasn't a mark on the bird - it must have died of shock) and I wasn't looking forward to the same thing happening this year. Young Daisy will be wearing a bell from tomorrow on.

You're very welcome!...

It was the same here... Not a mark on the birds, but they don't seem to take kindly to being in a mutt's mouth!....

The bell will cost you about €1.....

Darth....