Is building as easy as it looks?

Oat23

Hi guys, in the past I have always bought my PC's but from looking at youtube videos and other tutorials they do make it look easy enough to build your own (and kinda fun) even if you only have a little bit of computer knowledge.

Is it?

Cheers.

sink

It's easy to put everything together, so yes. The difficult part comes when picking the necessary components and troubleshooting anything that might go wrong, both of which the good people of boards will give you ample help with.

Oat23

Great, thanks. I'll just throw up what I was thinking of getting.

Case and Power Supply
Motherboard - Not sure.
Processor - Have Intel Pentium 4 3.06Ghz.
Graphics Card
Hard Drive
Ram - Depends on motherboard I guess, want 3GB -4GB but the option of upgrading in the future.

Also have the dvd drives and wireless keyboard/mouse so I think that about covers everything needed.

The processor I have is a pretty good one, right?

docmol

Bad news I'm afraid, the cpu is old and single-core. It also runs hot. In it's day it was the best, but it's day is long gone. If you can get a cheap secondhand motherboard and ram then build a machine on it. If not, you will be putting money into a motherboard that is obselete. I'm not saying that it couldn't be made to work, just that it is too old to be spending money on.

docmol

I just looked at the components you picked out and the first thing I noticed is that they are all from piximania. They are cheap but seem to have a terrible rep for aftersales service. I am only reporting what I've read as I've never used them. From personal experience I can recommend both komplett.ie and dabs.ie. I've returned items to both these companies and found them to be polite and efficient. Sometimes paying a little extra is worth it...
Also before you go down the road of picking components, you should decide what you want the machine to do. If it's for gaming, post what games you want it to run. If it's for photo/video work tell us. If all it's gonna do is email/browsing you can get away with a minimal spec pc. Do you have a monitor? If so post the details. Also have a quick look at this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/value-gaming-pc,2578.html

Oat23

docmol wrote: »

Bad news I'm afraid, the cpu is old and single-core. It also runs hot. In it's day it was the best, but it's day is long gone. If you can get a cheap secondhand motherboard and ram then build a machine on it. If not, you will be putting money into a motherboard that is obselete. I'm not saying that it couldn't be made to work, just that it is too old to be spending money on.

Thanks for that docmol. I had a feeling it was old judging by the rig I took it out of. I also forgot to mention the pixmania links were just to get opinion of boardsies on what I chose, I'll definately be shopping around for the best prices/service.

I'll be using the PC for HD video editing/rendering and maybe playing some video games(Modern Warfare 2, Battlefield Bad Company 2, Sims 3 etc.). I have a 22'' HD beko monitor.

Interesting link, since I'll be getting a new processor I have alot more options when it comes to motherboards.

Cheers.

Jibbs

I've just finished my first build and although it wasn't as simple as I thought it would be, it was still fairly straight forward. I had one or two problems but, the good people on here helped me out no end.
I found the PC configurator on Hardwareversand.de a good starting point for getting compatible components. I got all my stuff from ebuyer. They're slightly more expensive than the cheapest websites but delivery was very quick.
I thought I was taking a bit of a gamble building my own but it really wasn't that difficult and, although it took a bit of time and research, it was more than worth it for the money I saved and the little bit of experience and knowledge I got from it.

StopNotWorking

Physically building the computer is as easy as lego in most respects. The only really tricky bit is troubleshooting problems afterwards.You'll always run into something, I think if the build goes together and runs perfectly first time then you've jinxed yourself and something worse will happen down the line

PogMoThoin

Its just expensive lego, the hardest part is picking the parts. You can't go wrong, most connectors have only one place they can go, don't fit anywhere else

StopNotWorking

Just make sure you apply the right amount of force to each component. Things like the RAM and GPU take a little bit of force to mount properly, where as the CPUs just need to be sat on their socket with the right orientation to be seated properly. Where here to help pick good parts so he cant go wrong there, hopefully

Effluo

Oatesy23 wrote: »

I'll be using the PC for HD video editing/rendering and maybe playing some video games(Modern Warfare 2, Battlefield Bad Company 2, Sims 3 etc.). I have a 22'' HD beko monitor.

These are the things we need to know. A budget would also be something useful and make sure that you mention if you have an operating system or if you also need to buy a new within that budget.

Also a point of note, the graphics card(gpu) you selected will not be able to play those games at 1080 full hd. The power suppy(psu) is a very important part of any system and you'll be paying more than 25euro for it and the case will be very plasticy and probably not with great airflow

I think, well at least looking at the components you picked you might have been underestimating the cost of a gaming pc. Come back to us with a figure to what kind of money you were expecting to put into this.

the_syco

Oatesy23 wrote: »

I'll be using the PC for HD video editing/rendering and maybe playing some video games(Modern Warfare 2, Battlefield Bad Company 2, Sims 3 etc.). I have a 22'' HD beko monitor.

Play both MW2 and BC2 on my current system (see my sig below). Would prefer a better graphics card for BC2, though. My core of system was built 15 months ago. What video editing/rendering programs would you be using? Sony Vegas, or something else?

If you're just starting off, maybe do what I did when i started off: check out the "upgrade kits" at Komplett: http://www.komplett.ie/k/kc.aspx?bn=10293 for pricing when you have a budget in mind.

You'll be wanting at least 4GB's, and you'll need to get a 64bit version Windows, so that it'll see all of your RAM. My own board can handle a total of 8GB's, so will probably upgrade at a later date, but some boards out there can handle more.

Unless you want your machine to go pop some day, spend about €100 on a decent brand PSU. If you plan on doing some heavy rendering that will use some juice, getting a €25 PSU is stupid. As for the case, get a Coolermaster or an Antec case.

Finally, the video editing/rendering: a hobby, or work?

Oat23

I spent hours last night googling/reading/watching stuff that will help me choose what I need and I've come up with the following.

Motherboard
Processor - Does anyone know if a cooling fan comes with this?
Ram
Hard Drive
Graphics Card - Need some recommendations, don't really know what I'm looking for tbh.
DVD Drive - Have it but I might get a blu-ray drive.
Keyboard/Mouse - Have it
Monitor - Have it
OS - Win 7, Have it.

I'm still deciding if I should go with the case I chose in my 2nd post in the thread or go with the Cooler Master HAF 922. Also need a power supply.

Budget is around the €450 - €550 mark. But like I said gaming is not the most important thing, I have a PS3 and 360 anyways. HD video editing and rendering is most important (hobby).

Oat23

Effluo wrote: »

I think, well at least looking at the components you picked you might have been underestimating the cost of a gaming pc. Come back to us with a figure to what kind of money you were expecting to put into this.

I think so too, I'll probably have to save another bit every week because I don't want to do a half arsed job.

Cheers for all the help so far lads.

the_syco

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Processor - Does anyone know if a cooling fan comes with this?

According to http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=26625&agid=1242 the box should have it in it, but don't know about pixmania. Talking about pixmania: have you found a number to ring them should anything go wrong? No? Have fun finding one that works :P

Oatesy23 wrote: »

OS - Win 7, Have it.

32bit, or 64bit? 32bit will only see 3 point something GB's of RAM that it''ll use. 64bit supports a whole lot more.

Oatesy23 wrote: »

I'm still deciding if I should go with the case I chose in my 2nd post in the thread or go with the Cooler Master HAF 922. Also need a power supply.

I'm probably biased, but I would go with the coolermaster.

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Budget is around the €450 - €550 mark. But like I said gaming is not the most important thing, I have a PS3 and 360 anyways. HD video editing and rendering is most important (hobby).

Hrm... for the €450 - €550 mark, look at this thread: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055766301 - it was a thread by Komplett for a machine under €500, and a lot of the machines were very good. As it was 4 months ago, some of the products may not be sold by them anymore, or at a cheaper price.

For example, this was €500 when the list was put together, but is only €400 now, so you could probably upgrade a few of it's parts, and still be within your budget.

Also, look @ http://www.hardwareversand.de (click the english flag top right for english) - some of the prices are cheaper.

Komplett are handy as you can pick up from their place in Blanchardstown on a weekday, or Saturday morning.

the_syco

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Motherboard
Processor - Does anyone know if a cooling fan comes with this?
Ram
Hard Drive

Total: €305.33

Komplett shopping list: €349.68
An extra €35, but I have not heard one person have a positive computer part related story yet. Heard lots of story about having "paperweights" from pixmania, though

PogMoThoin

the_syco wrote: »

Total: €305.33

Komplett shopping list: €349.68
An extra €35, but I have not heard one person have a positive computer part related story yet. Heard lots of story about having "paperweights" from pixmania, though

Pixmania are Pc World and Currys, same company. There have been some dire stories about all of them here, I'd avoid them. Komplett are reputable, will return if You not happy and even have a forum here for dealing with them

Oat23

Don't worry lads, I just use the pix site because I find it easy to navigate. I mentioned on the previous page I'll be shopping around.

the_syco - thanks for taking the time to write out that post on the previous page, really helpful. To answer your question about Win 7. I have the 64 bit version. I've also decided to go with the cooler master, I've looked at some reviews on youtube and it looks like the best option.

I've bought from komplett in the past and I had zero problems, so I'll probably go with them for most of the equipment.

L31mr0d

As was said earlier, PC building really is straight forward. That being said, if you have a friend that has built a PC before it would be handy to have him around.

I got all my PC building experience in the CompSoc in college, where it didn't matter if you made mistakes.

When it's your own PC though you want it to go as smoothly as possible the first time. There's just some things you'll learn with experience.

After it's built, consider overclocking. Building is fun, but there is no feeling better than stepping up the clocks of your system and getting a system a lot better than what you paid for.

Oat23

I finally figured out how to share my komplett basket(:o). I still need to choose a graphics card along with the other stuff I have, could someone take a look and give me your opinion?. Maybe a bigger PSU would be better?

http://www.komplett.ie/k/shoplist.aspx?mode=receive&si=787036&su=21448FC0-48BB-44CE-8881-460B1753465A

It'll be a few weeks before I have everything needed, but I'm excited to get it and start the build .

PogMoThoin

Yeah, I'd drop that psu. That one is fine for now but would not allow for upgrades as a 4870 (or any modern gpu) uses 2 pcie connectors, both 6 pin and 8 pin, that psu has only one 6 pin. If You ever upgrade gpu You'll need a better psu

Maybe this would be better
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=482848
or even stretch to this if You plan on sticking with Corsair if Your budget allows
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=327672

Oat23

Hi lads, I've already got the Haf 922 case and I've been waiting for Komplett to fix their site to other the rest. But I've been waiting almost a month now and it doesn't look like the service will be back to normal anytime soon. So I have to go with Pixmania(who were very speedy at delivering the case I might add). overclockers.co.uk were a good option too but the 21% VAT sure did add a big chunk on to the final price.

This is what I'll be getting:

CPU - Ram - Mobo - PSU
GPU

Total of your order:
€ 452,89 Inc. VAT & Shipping

Effluo

Dual-core cpu I wouldn't go for a dual core now, they're steadily becoming obsolete at least in the gaming pc sector...

PSU is complete overkill for the build too.

Hmm
You never really gave a straight answer to what you'll want to do with this pc, is it just for video editing or will you be gaming on it too.

Bad Company 2 is a tough game to play at your res, although it's possible you could still play it if we manage your money a bit better.

Am I right in saying you have €430 exactly to spend on the motherboard, ram, gpu, cpu and psu or is there a little leeway with that?

Oat23

Not really worried about Battlefield now, rented it...was nothing special IMO .

I'll be doing video editing, gaming isn't important as I have a ps3 & xbox already. There's hardly any more money I can spend on this build, maybe 40-50 quid at most because I'm going to Germany in 2 weeks and I've been saving for that too .

I chose the X2 555 because you can overclock it and unlock 2 hidden cores on it as you can you can see here, basically making it a Quad Core for the price of a dual core. I'll need to upgrade my CPU fan before I do that though just to be sure.

What PSU would you recommend?

Thanks for your help .

Solitaire

Agreed. Insane overkill for case and PSU, little CPU and no decent graphics. Dear oh dear...

That CPU is rank madness even if you gamble on unlocking the other two cores. You can have a 2.8GHz quad for the same price! Heck, you can get a 3GHz Athlon tricore for €20 less! :eek:

Mobo is old and isn't even AM3. You can get a decent AM3 mobo with a good OCing pedigree for under €62 on Pix. You just don't need CrossFire on this rig!

Memory is a complete travesty no matter what you do. Prices have gone up roughly 120% over the past 18 months and there's no sign of the trend stopping soon, although the self-build recession caused by this insane increase will eventually see some kind of reaction. You can get 4GB DDR3 for around €100, but if you fancy something a bit more shiny, look at this kit for €110

What resolution is your monitor? If you have a 1080p (Full HD) screen you're going to need a helluva lot more than a little old HD4670! This is the absolute least you could get away with and get decent visual quality out of a recent 3D game at 1080p; even then you'd need a card with a bit more grunt and twice the memory to get decent high-quality performance - at least a 1GB version of the afore mentioned for €120+ and then overclocked at home, or its bigger brother for €130+!

PSU, thankfully, is somewhere you could make big savings. That PSU may be a great special offer but its total overkill; you could easily get away with a CX400 if you weren't doing much OCing or running huge RAID arrays or anything!

You still need a HDD?

EDIT: Beat me to it Ignore the GPU bit if you're sure about never ever gaming with the rig, just get a very cheap HD4650.

Oat23

Thanks Solitaire, great post. I have 2 500GB HDD's here which will do fine with this build. I probably would have went with the haf 922 no matter what was going into it because it looks so damn awesome .

I obviously still have a lot to learn .

Solitaire

Not that much more if you were thinking of trying to unlock an X2-555

But its still very easy for almost anyone to get tunnel vision when finding these awesome hacks and tricks where you can accidentally blind yourself to more effective conventional options!

Mister Man

The only trouble I had building my PC was the power on, restart, HD LED Light, and some other small thing.

Opened the motherboard manuals and it had a hand pciture of where things go, so was sorted in the first 1min of the problem

It took 30-45 mins to finish my computer, And to date ive had no real problems with it (Software problems I have had)

In sort, Yes it is very easy to build a PC, But i can get expensive depending on your needs. You say you need it for HD Editing. That won't be the cheapest. You will have to go with a good and expensive Video card for that, so I would say (Altho i havn't checked anywhere in a while) 400-600 For a decent build that could edit HD videos no problem, and play games etc

c-note

i built my first machine in november,

Did a lot of research picking components.

putting it all together was easier than some of the lego kits i had as a child.

The trickiest part i found was cable management, as cables are the really the only bit you have to decide for youself where they go!
My case is the haf 922 which made cable management easy enough as you can cable tie most things behind the motherboard tray,
even with a non modular psu, it ended up much neater than most production line pc's i've owned/seen

zom

Solitaire wrote: »

Not that much more if you were thinking of trying to unlock an X2-555

I agree about using mobo with DDR3 support - recently I build one low-budget PC with ddr2 and HD from "old" PC (MSI 758GT E63) but ddr3 is the same price at the moment and looks like ddr2 will be more expensive soon.
Few words about unlocking AMDs cores - I tried unlock Sempron 140 but with no luck (by the way - BOX version from Pixmania have standard heatsink). Its just a matter of luck - you can get X2-555 with really bad cores, not working or working unstabile.

Solitaire

I think the demand for AthlonX2s (Regor) and the lack of demand for the Sempron 140 (Sargas) meant that AMD decided to only use Regors with serious issues rather than slightly low-binned Regors to make the single-core Sargas. And as the success rate and yields for Regor is so high, only very badly borked dies are being cut down to make 140s

Oat23

Hi lads.

Just wanted to let ye know all my parts arrived at around 3pm today. I started the build when I got home at 6pm and I finished installing windows 7(64bit) around 30 minutes ago. Everything is running great and I just need to update some drivers. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be after all .

Big thank you to everyone who helped me out and gave me advice. I'll try to get some pics up soon in the stickied thread.

Cheers!

Oat23

Do these temp readings look okay lads?



The core temp topped out at around 56C about 6 minutes into transferring the files from my external HD to my internal one. it also had the fireball beside ''core:'' where there is a grren arrow now.
Also, is it right where it says Fan 1: 3341 RPM but the rest say 0 RPM?. The 3 cooler master fans (+ cpu fan) are all working.

Thanks.

Solitaire

What mobo are you using again?

Looks like SpeedFan isn't a big fan (sic) of your choice of mobo, as one of the temp sensors is spouting gibberish (or you have it on LN2 ) and none of the fans other than some fast 80mm jobbie are showing up, suggesting either the fan or the mobo fan header aren't PWM-capable.

What CPU cooler are you using? Stock? Try using CoreTemp (more accurate for CPU temp readings than... well, anything really!) then using something like Prime95 to max out the load on each core and see what temps you're getting after ten minutes. That'll be the highest protracted temp you'll ever see at the current CPU speed/voltage setting.

Oat23

I went with your suggestion, the MSI 770-C45 . And yes, stock CPU cooling fan.

I downloaded both of those programs and after 15 - 20 seconds of starting the stress test the core temp rose to 73C :eek:. I got nervous and shut it off.
I've managed to feck something up during the build?

Solitaire

What's the case? And what CPU did you go with in the end? X4-630 or something bigger and hotter?

That temp is too high for full load at stock speed, the AMD stock cooler should be able to keep a quad in check far more easily. Clearly something is up with the CPU cooler or case ventilation in general

Oat23

Case is the HAF 922 from coolermaster. CPU is the AMD Athlon II X4 630.
I cleaned up the cables and pinned them back so air flow inside the case is pretty good.

Could I have applied too much/not enough thermal paste(arctic silver)?. I put a small bit in the middle of the processor and put the cooler on it and wiggled it a bit to spread it. I removed the stock thermal paste from the cooler before applying the new stuff.

Solitaire

How much is a small bit? If the stock cooler's base didn't have a very good finish a very small amount might not have been enough. I'd use CPU-z to check what voltage your CPU is running at though. Sounds like the C45 is pumping too many volts in there, which translates into "lots of heat" for a quad on a stock cooler If its one of the newer AMD CPUs the mobo might need a BIOS update.

Oat23

It looked similar to this picture after applying the paste. Could applying the thermal paste wrong be causing all the problems?.

Here is screenshots of CPU-Z:

No load:


100% load:


What would you recommend doing next?. I'm lost to be honest .

Solitaire

Stock volts under load look way too high. Update your mobo's BIOS to the latest and if that doesn't change things set about manually undervolting the CPU until you find out the lowest voltage it can get away with in Prime95.

And contrary to popular opinion that's not a great way to put on your gunk. I'd recommend resetting the cooler (clean it and the CPU IHS off first!) with a thin layer of thermal paste spread evenly across all but the very far edges of the CPU heatspreader with something like a credit card (didn't your AS5 come with a wee card for doing that?) then attach the cooler and see what happens. AFAIK you were unlucky with that CPU, only a few old X4-630s were C2, the vast majority are the newer and cooler C3 stepping

Oat23

I'm trying to avoid a bios update unless it comes down to that as the only thing I can do. I just think I will feck it up somehow.

So I took the cpu fan off and cleaned the grease off it and the processor, applied some new shtuff and put everything back on.
Started up the stress test and 2 minutes into it things where sitting at 46C, then I heard a small click in the case and the temp rose within 5 seconds to 90C and it was at 98C before I could hit the stop button in prime 95 .
The PC shut itself down and it turned out I hadn't attached the cooling fan right(doh).

Re-started the test and here is a screenshot after 10 minutes:


So It looks like it was a thermal grease problem OR maybe I had not attached the cooling fan right in the first place, wouldn't put it past me .

BUT...there's always a but when I'm involved.

A new problem has arose(yayy). Twice in the last 2-3 hours the computer has just froze up, first everything on windows 7 becomes unresponsive then 5 seconds later my mouse & keyboard freeze and I have to reset the PC :mad:. It happened once while doing a stress test and once while I was just on the net.

Any ideas?

Thank you for all your help so far!

Oat23

Freezing is happening regularly now, can't use the PC at all now because it freezes and I lose all my work. Back to the old one till I find out what's happening.

Could it be a voltage issue?. BIOS update needed?.

I tried switching around the RAM slots but still the same. Have 2 2GB sticks of OCZ RAM in slot 1 and slot 3 on the mobo.

Solitaire

VID is quite high, looks like you got the dregs of a low bin, that CPU should probably be an X3 due to heat/stability issues

Not going to call time on it yet though; check all connections and update the BIOS to start with. Even if you do muck it up MSI mobos are usually replete with recovery features Also check out the unofficial USB BIOS update tools on the MSI forums

You can also use the bundled MemTest86 to check your memory modules for problems; no guarantee its your CPU that's causing the instability!

zappb

The definition of noob on this forum, is someone that takes Solitaire's advice.

so be careful, it's a double edged sword.

but your doing well here, good job.