Irish vs Uk road tax

fonecrusher1

This is not a rant, just an observation. Honest.

2009 Mazda3 1.4 petrol CO2 emissions; 157 g/km

IRELAND road tax for 1 year - 430 euro

UK road tax for 1 year - 167 euro (£150)

Why does it cost us well over double what the brits pay for road tax for a year for a car like this?

Seriously I would like to know.

Cookie_Monster

Cos everything in Ireland is more expensive

What's road tax by the way?

Atlantic Dawn

The UK has a population much larger than ours.

EPM

Partly because per head of population we have more roads...thanks to people building houses wherever the fcuk they like, miles from anywhere and the need to service these areas.

The rest is just greed

thebiglad

Also UK pay higher excise on Petrol/Diesel than we do.

mysterypotato

thebiglad wrote: »

Also UK pay higher excise on Petrol/Diesel than we do.

I was there at the weekend, petrol price was £1.14 - £1.15 (that I saw) per litre as opposed to our €1.26 - €1.29 presently.

Absurdum

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

What's road tax by the way?

many people incorrectly call "motor tax" that, surely you figured that out?

fonecrusher1

thebiglad wrote: »

Also UK pay higher excise on Petrol/Diesel than we do.

True but is this not offset by the fact that cars are more expensive to buy here? New cars here are more expensive by anything from 10 to 30%.

Gurgle

EPM wrote: »

Partly because per head of population we have more roads...thanks to people building houses wherever the fcuk they like, miles from anywhere...

Yeah, thats right.
As soon as you lodge an application for planning permission on the side of a mountain in Donegal, the council are out building a motorway to Dublin just for you.

getz

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

This is not a rant, just an observation. Honest.

2009 Mazda3 1.4 petrol CO2 emissions; 157 g/km

IRELAND road tax for 1 year - 430 euro

UK road tax for 1 year - 167 euro (£150)

Why does it cost us well over double what the brits pay for road tax for a year for a car like this?

Seriously I would like to know.

so thats the reason that a irish customs officer pulled me up last month near carnew,to ask me if i lived in ireland[i have a UK number plate and was on holiday].he was a great advert for irish tourism,long miserable face,not polite,[unlike the policeman with him] i hope someone was giving his wife one as he was grilling me.

ART6

mysterypotato wrote: »

I was there at the weekend, petrol price was £1.14 - £1.15 (that I saw) per litre as opposed to our €1.26 - €1.29 presently.

I'd say the difference with car costs in general is due to Gormley and his bike expecting us to solve the global warming problem on our own.

Cookie_Monster

Absurdum wrote: »

many people incorrectly call "motor tax" that, surely you figured that out?

probably should have added this: :rolleyes: to that question

Theanswers

Gormley...
Pure useless.

Stinicker

Who here feels we get shafted totally on everything motor related? I drove in Germany recently and paid €1.44/litre for Benzin (Petrol) and probably for the first time in my life I felt happy actually filling my tank as I was getting value for money for the incredible taxation, I drove out of that filling station and shortly afterwards was happily cruising on the Autobahn at 280km/h, I later drove through rural areas where the average rural and secondary road was almost on a par with out N routes.

The Brits are laughing they have lower motor taxation and good roads, however in Ireland we have sh1te roads and high taxation and we thus get very little value for money in terms of roads. I'd happily pay €1.50/litre fuel and €1000 a year motor taxation if we had proper motorways (not the twisty crap they built) and proper roads build to uniform spec with no Council interference. However at the moment we get the worst of both worlds.

galwaytt

mysterypotato wrote: »

I was there at the weekend, petrol price was £1.14 - £1.15 (that I saw) per litre as opposed to our €1.26 - €1.29 presently.

True - it cost me Stg£1.21 for DIESEL in the UK just over a week ago.


O/T- Mazda should get out the laptop and tweek that the extra 2g/km it'll take to sell them. Very short sighted of them, tbh.........

galwaytt

Stinicker wrote: »

I ...recently and paid €1.44/litre for Benzin (Petrol) ... I'd happily pay €1.50/litre fuel and €1000 a year motor taxation if .

..don't worry, that part of your wish is a lot closer to coming true than you may appreciate !:D

macplaxton

It's expensive because you don't pay extortionate amounts of council tax on your property .

Swings and roundabouts, the government have got to fill the coffers up.

McSpud

Different countries have different taxes. They have council taxes in the UK which we don't have to the same extent, they have higher corporation taxes, they have lower VAT & so on...

Years ago we became a country with high motoring taxes and now there is no easy way out. I would guess reducing motroing taxes (assumes other taxes have to increase) would actually be unpopular. Motor tax is an easy one to increase because once you have a car you cannot avoid.

Guy:Incognito

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Why does it cost us well over double what the brits pay for road tax for a year for a car like this?

Seriously I would like to know.

Because this is not Britain and we've nothing to do with them. Why not pick a different country that's more expensive and ask why we get to pay less?

mysterypotato wrote: »

I was there at the weekend, petrol price was £1.14 - £1.15 (that I saw) per litre as opposed to our €1.26 - €1.29 presently.

123.9 near me.

Absurdum wrote: »

many people incorrectly call "motor tax" that, surely you figured that out?

Many people are wrong.

bog master

It seems to me Road Tax is a huge money spinner for the government. I remember buying my second hand 1978 Datsun and the log book showed an annual road tax of £5.00. Now surely even with inflation and cost of living increases, etc. does not equate to todays levels bar the newest rates based on emissions. For most, a car is not a luxury, but a neccessisity, to grab the the tax dollars and people will cough up because they have no other choice.

If anyone has figures as to what percentage Road Tax was in overall Tax Revenues collected in the late 70's and or early 80's as to today, would love to see them.

GiftGrub100

Just in case anyone does not know what Council tax is or proposes we introduce council tax and reduce motortax levels to our neighbours levels, read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_Tax

While the UK are indeed our neighbours any country with 60+ million inhabitants will have different prices for everything than the country next door with 4+ million inhabitants.

Yes the government charge for motor tax more than next door, but next door pays more to live in their houses and for their water etc

If you want to pay the same price as everyone in the UK for your shopping, Taxes etc then move to the UK and work in the UK for what they are paid.

If you want to live in Ireland we have to pay different amounts as we live in a different country and we as a country fought for the independence to live in the Republic Of Ireland.

Guy:Incognito

bog master wrote: »

It seems to me Road Tax is a huge money spinner for the government. I remember buying my second hand 1978 Datsun and the log book showed an annual road tax of £5.00. Now surely even with inflation and cost of living increases, etc. does not equate to todays levels bar the newest rates based on emissions. For most, a car is not a luxury, but a neccessisity, to grab the the tax dollars and people will cough up because they have no other choice..

Motor tax rates start at €172 for pre 08 cars and €104 for 08 on. People have plenty of choice.


1st year apprentice rates in the mid 80's was something like £20. It's around 10 times that now. Plenty of things have risen hugely.

Stinicker

Stekelly wrote: »

Motor tax rates start at €172 for pre 08 cars and €104 for 08 on. People have plenty of choice.


1st year apprentice rates in the mid 80's was something like £20. It's around 10 times that now. Plenty of things have risen hugely.

Yes but those low rate cars are not real cars are they? Anything under a 2.0l is pointless and that is expensive enough as it is. The UK has Council taxes yes but in Ireland we have pretty much the same thing, bin charges, impending water charges, septic tank tax etc. The British higher tax argument doesn't hold up as they get public services and a Universal Healthcare that works better than ours, basically the brits pay about the same or slightly less but get far greater bang for their buck.

Voodoomelon

It was on the news today that Ireland uses far more petrol per head of population than the UK, is this true?

Stinicker

Voodoomelon wrote: »

It was on the news today that Ireland uses far more petrol per head of population than the UK, is this true?

Couldn't confirm or deny but it sounds very plausible, considering the urbanisation of the UK and public transport options available compared to here.

Lord Nikon

Different country, different prices.

Any other country you would like to compare with?

fonecrusher1

GiftGrub100 wrote: »

If you want to pay the same price as everyone in the UK for your shopping, Taxes etc then move to the UK and work in the UK for what they are paid.

If you want to live in Ireland we have to pay different amounts as we live in a different country and we as a country fought for the independence to live in the Republic Of Ireland.

Wow you're just so much more patriotic than i am, such emotion, thanks for dying in the war for me.:rolleyes:

Hop down off the soap box for a second there fella i already said in the OP that it was just an observation & not a gripe so don't even think about using this as a platform for an ego boost & a round of applause.;)

Its too easy to accuse someone of being unpatriotic because they dare to question why they're paying up so much for so little. Its a dishonor to those who died for our independence to use their sacrifice as a way of chastising someone else.

I pay my taxes & i'm proud to be Irish. Don't even think about it.

DerMutt

Voodoomelon wrote: »

It was on the news today that Ireland uses far more petrol per head of population than the UK, is this true?

The key here is per head of population. Ireland has more car journeys per head of population than the UK because of this country's lamentable public transport system. The UK has far more train, tube and bus journeys and is far better served in those regards than in Ireland.

As for the whole car/road/vehicle tax, call it what you will, bigger countries tend to pay less and smaller countries more. It's a pain in the ass but a simple fact of life and a matter of scale.

Voodoomelon

But we've gone beyond ridiculous with our system. The top band is €2100, I mean wtf? People say "well if you can afford to run a car that outputs that much c02, then you can afford the tax".

That has nothing to do with it, that price is absolutely taking the piss, it makes no sense on any level (for the driver that is).

ShiresV2

Voodoomelon wrote: »

But we've gone beyond ridiculous with our system. The top band is €2100, I mean wtf? People say "well if you can afford to run a car that outputs that much c02, then you can afford the tax".

That has nothing to do with it, that price is absolutely taking the piss, it makes no sense on any level (for the driver that is).

I think the idea is big thirsty car = poshy that owns a factory and drives around wearing a monocle. Or is a motor enthusiast. And either group can be raped without much complaint from the public at large. Divide and conquer!

Rulmeq

Voodoomelon wrote: »

But we've gone beyond ridiculous with our system. The top band is €2100, I mean wtf? People say "well if you can afford to run a car that outputs that much c02, then you can afford the tax".

That has nothing to do with it, that price is absolutely taking the piss, it makes no sense on any level (for the driver that is).

I think it's a joke that there is a limit to it, so someone who owns a 16litre W16 engine pays the same as someone with a 3litre TDI... Where exactly is the incentive to move down from a 4.2litre TDI to a 3litre if you are going to be paying exactly the same tax -- bearing in mind that the introduction of this carbon emission based tax was to encourage people to drive more efficient cars.

Also banding is silly (and a throwback to the bad old days of paying more just because you bought a diesel), how about a flat rate charge of €5-10 per g of CO2 per km, and maybe keep the free rate for those that manage to stay below 99g/km.

Edit: I'd also be in favour of the price increasing based on the age of the car (since it will emit more), although given the number of extra people that would have to be hired to implement such a scheme, perhaps we could just front load the price instead.

stealthyspeeder

Regarding the OP's original post, Mazda are not the most aware on the CO2 front espesially the 2004 - 2009 cars, a few of their models are just above the minimum threshold for a taxband. To put in how riduculous the tax system is (even in the UK) I was paying £400 per year for my Mazda 3 MPS (231g/km CO2), whereas my friend was paying £215 per year and his Astra VXR (very similar cars) was putting out just below the 225g CO2 limit for the high tax band.

I changed the MPS to a Vauxhall Monaro, moved from a 2.3l turbo @ £400/yr to 5.7l V8 @ 215/yr! Epic tax win for me! It does highlight the idiocy of taxing according to CO2 levels and the cars year of manufacture though.

R.O.I motorists have the arse ripped out of them, I couldnt even imagine how much it would cost to VRT and tax those cars per year in R.O.I., I certainly couldnt afford it

keithclancy

Ireland is pretty cheap for car ownership/usage.

Can't really compare the UK though, different currency and setup.

No system ever suits everyone !

I strongly believe they should just flat tax the fuel, then you'd get all the people coming into the country. Sell the truckers Green Diesel and require them to have an ID card to purchase non road tax fuel,

Bigger engine - more fuel - more revenue
Heavy foot - more fuel - more revenue

DPF should be a standard too .. Diesel particulates are much worse than anything coming out of a Petrol engined exhaust and it should be offered on a Government grant scheme like they do in other European countries.

stealthyspeeder

keithclancy wrote: »

Ireland is pretty cheap for car ownership/usage.

Compared to where?

Prices for new cars are always more expensive in Ireland than the UK when you take into account the exchange rate. (usually even when you factor in the exotortionate VRT!)

Tax upper band in the UK = £400, Ireland = 2,100 euro

Service costs from main dealer (specific to my last car) 375 euro + VAT in Dublin, 215 sterling all in, in Belfast

Tyres (again specific to my last car, 215/45/18 speed Y rating) best quote 450 euro for 2 in Dublin, Newry, 310 for 4 fitted!

The Irish motorist has a horrid time of it, he is rippped off in every sector of car ownership.

MetzgerMeister

I agree with stealthyspeeder

2009 Mazda RX-8 tax:

Ireland - €2100
UK - £400 - €446

That tax is based on emmissions and the UK tax is still cheaper than when the RX-8 is taxed here on engine size! Rip off!

Tyres:

4 x Bridgestone Potenza R050 225/45/R18 -

ROI - €720 without fitting
UK - €612 without fitting and including shipping.

EPM

Gurgle wrote: »

Yeah, thats right.
As soon as you lodge an application for planning permission on the side of a mountain in Donegal, the council are out building a motorway to Dublin just for you.

I'm talking more about regional roads in fairness.

The (little) upkeep on those is costly in this country...especially if a TD is living anywhere near;)

Jip

Stinicker wrote: »

Yes but those low rate cars are not real cars are they? Anything under a 2.0l is pointless

That's all I can say about that really.

keithclancy

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Compared to where?

Prices for new cars are always more expensive in Ireland than the UK when you take into account the exchange rate. (usually even when you factor in the exotortionate VRT!)

Tax upper band in the UK = £400, Ireland = 2,100 euro

Service costs from main dealer (specific to my last car) 375 euro + VAT in Dublin, 215 sterling all in, in Belfast

Tyres (again specific to my last car, 215/45/18 speed Y rating) best quote 450 euro for 2 in Dublin, Newry, 310 for 4 fitted!

The Irish motorist has a horrid time of it, he is rippped off in every sector of car ownership.

I've said this a few times and I think everyone just ignores me.

Ireland is CHEAP for cars, the UK is super cheap for cars !

The rest of Mainland Europe is much more expensive, I live in the Netherlands.

I pay circa 1384 euros a Year in Road Tax (and this is in Brabant, its more expensive in the Randstad (Amsterdam,The Hague, Rotterdam)
680 a year for Semi full comp with 2 years NCB.
Diesel has gone up to around 1.15 a litre, Petrol is now around 1.50 a litre (unless you find a cheap place in the back arse of nowhere)

Holland also has a BPM tax on imports (roughly the same as VRT) so does Denmark.

Germany is also well expensive for cars, was looking for almost a year in in most peoples opinion your better off buying an absolute ****b*x 10 year old banger or leasing a car.

They've also brought in the Congestion zones so now if you drive anything oldish or Diesel without a DPF you can't go into the City centers anymore.

Oh .. and don't get me started on the Average speed cameras, their a feckin tax in themselves.

Stinicker

keithclancy wrote: »

I've said this a few times and I think everyone just ignores me.

Ireland is CHEAP for cars, the UK is super cheap for cars !

The rest of Mainland Europe is much more expensive, I live in the Netherlands.

I pay circa 1384 euros a Year in Road Tax (and this is in Brabant, its more expensive in the Randstad (Amsterdam,The Hague, Rotterdam)
680 a year for Semi full comp with 2 years NCB.
Diesel has gone up to around 1.15 a litre, Petrol is now around 1.50 a litre (unless you find a cheap place in the back arse of nowhere)

Holland also has a BPM tax on imports (roughly the same as VRT) so does Denmark.

Germany is also well expensive for cars, was looking for almost a year in in most peoples opinion your better off buying an absolute ****b*x 10 year old banger or leasing a car.

They've also brought in the Congestion zones so now if you drive anything oldish or Diesel without a DPF you can't go into the City centers anymore.

Oh .. and don't get me started on the Average speed cameras, their a feckin tax in themselves.

Ok you pay high enough taxation but in the Netherlands and most of Western Europe the motorist gets value for money in terms of good quality roads, autobahns and a decent alternative to the car in terms of public transport.

In Ireland we pay high taxes, have crap roads, essentially no public transport and if you want to hop from one side of the country (say Kerry, Cork, Mayo or Donegal) to Dublin it is easier (and often cheaper) to fly with Ryanair or Aer Arran than to drive the multiple tolled low spped twisty motorways and by the time you count in fuel and tolls, Mick & Co. will have you in Dublin for less!

Also the finance raised from motoring is used for general expenditure and this is a disgrace, the taxes we pay could see us on a par with Germany in terms of Infrastructure if it was ring fenced for transport only instead of being wasted elsewhere. In Europe they pay the taxes but get value for them. In Ireland throughout the country and with everything we pay Scandanavian levels of Tax and get American type public services.

Gurgle

EPM wrote: »

I'm talking more about regional roads in fairness.

The (little) upkeep on those is costly in this country...especially if a TD is living anywhere near;)

I'm not sure what you mean by 'regional' roads - the ones that join the towns or the little cul-de-sac tracks running off into the hills.

Not that it matters really - they cost nothing to maintain because there is no maintenance done. They cost feck all to build too, because as far as I can tell they're made entirely with mud and gravel.

EPM

Gurgle wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean by 'regional' roads - the ones that join the towns or the little cul-de-sac tracks running off into the hills.

Not that it matters really - they cost nothing to maintain because there is no maintenance done. They cost feck all to build too, because as far as I can tell they're made entirely with mud and gravel.

R roads and L roads.

There is some maintenance done in fairness. Not a lot but if you ad it up it will be a significant part of a councils budget. If you think putting them in place costs nothing you're miles off the mark.

I'm not saying there aren't complete dirt tracks out there either but the money spent on some little used roads in this country is sickening. I know of a 2 mile dead end stretch that was redone a couple of years ago for access to 6 houses:eek:

keithclancy

Stinicker wrote: »

Ok you pay high enough taxation but in the Netherlands and most of Western Europe the motorist gets value for money in terms of good quality roads, autobahns and a decent alternative to the car in terms of public transport.

In Ireland we pay high taxes, have crap roads, essentially no public transport and if you want to hop from one side of the country (say Kerry, Cork, Mayo or Donegal) to Dublin it is easier (and often cheaper) to fly with Ryanair or Aer Arran than to drive the multiple tolled low spped twisty motorways and by the time you count in fuel and tolls, Mick & Co. will have you in Dublin for less!

Also the finance raised from motoring is used for general expenditure and this is a disgrace, the taxes we pay could see us on a par with Germany in terms of Infrastructure if it was ring fenced for transport only instead of being wasted elsewhere. In Europe they pay the taxes but get value for them. In Ireland throughout the country and with everything we pay Scandanavian levels of Tax and get American type public services.

Its the same here,
Income tax in the Netherlands is higher than Ireland.
Income tax in Germany is higher than the Netherlands. (standard health insurance required by law on a Tarrif employee is 3100 euros per year) also if your Catholic you have to pay a Tithe tax ... basically Church tax.
Cheaper to fly than to get the train most of the time, if the area is served by a Budget airline (Germanwings etc)

Roads in the Netherlands are really good but limited to 120 everywhere.
Roads in West Germany are CRAP by comparison and the cities have shocking roads.
Belgium is like the third world in places ... drove a main road into Antwerp and i thought my fillings were going to fall out of my head.
When you go to France you should pack a tub of Vaseline for the Tolls ...
Generally though the quality of life here and the ability to get from one place to another without a car is possible.

Jesus.

I see the tax went up again. I got mine in the door yesterday and its now three hundred and eighty odd pound to tax a small 1.4L.

The Motorist is treated like a common criminal in this Country. Bled dry we are. Heaven forbid you'd like to drive something with a wee bit of power in it. Its getting to the stage now where people would nearly be better off getting rid of their Motors altogether and buying a push bike.

colm_mcm

Jesus. wrote: »

I see the tax went up again..

Its gone up a few times since this thread was current