Sean Fitz arrested?

jmayo

themont85 wrote: »

I'd rather see justice done here than a trial been rushed to appease the baying pessimistic souls here and failing.

If bernie Maddoff had been operating in Ireland, he would probably have been dragged into NAMA and the guards would be just getting around to questioning him one of these days.

Look at the way Iceland is handling their banking fiasco.
They brought in one a heavy hitter, Eva Joly the Norwegian-French investigator who led Europe’s biggest ever fraud investigations into bribery and corruption at oil group Elf.
She has brought in some of her previous teams AFAIK to aid in the investigation.
What have we done ?
Offered to have a behind closed doors investiagtion and some Garda inestigations that appears to question one of the biggest players in the mess two years nearly after the fact.

bamboozle

jmayo wrote: »

If bernie Maddoff had been operating in Ireland, he would probably have been dragged into NAMA and the guards would be just getting around to questioning him one of these days.

Look at the way Iceland is handling their banking fiasco.
They brought in one a heavy hitter, Eva Joly the Norwegian-French investigator who led Europe’s biggest ever fraud investigations into bribery and corruption at oil group Elf.
She has brought in some of her previous teams AFAIK to aid in the investigation.
What have we done ?
Offered to have a behind closed doors investiagtion and some Garda inestigations that appears to question one of the biggest players in the mess two years nearly after the fact.

an open and transparent investigation would have serious repercussions for Patrick Neary, Charlie McCreevy, Brian Cowan & Bertie Ahern...unfortunately it will never happen.

bamboozle

Cyrus wrote: »

it was his son,

ive no doubt but that he is broke, apparently he has liquidated most of his assets apart from the oil field and he is 70m in the hole,

you can dress it up anyway you like, unless he has 80m squirreled away, he is broke

nice house for someone who is broke

Cyrus

bamboozle wrote: »

nice house for someone who is broke

well the guy is in his 60s, im guessing its paid for?

bamboozle

Cyrus wrote: »

well the guy is in his 60s, im guessing its paid for?

i'm guessing it is paid for but in the wife's name, no doubt Anglo never asked him to provide it as collatoral against any of his millions of loans he took out.

Cyrus

bamboozle wrote: »

i'm guessing it is paid for but in the wife's name, no doubt Anglo never asked him to provide it as collatoral against any of his millions of loans he took out.

Well i suppose whether they did or didnt surely only a fool would risk his family home?

ei.sdraob

sure why dont we bail him out if hes behind on his mortgage

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055859667

Cyrus

kippy wrote: »

Cyrus,
People are obviously very emotional about the last 24 months or so, sometimes more emotional than logical and as such people want to see others punished for the perceived wrong doing that took place. Believe you me, there was wrong doing, legal, ethical and moral in the past 10 years, from the very top of our political establishment (Bertie speaking of suicide for naysayers (http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0704/economy.html) to the regulators, bankers, developers and indeed even some by the man on the street.
The simple facts at the moment are that very few/no one has ever done time in this country have ever done time for such acts and that very few politicans have been caught red handed " on the take" so to speak.
Thats why when someone like Fitz gets arrested for questioning people are hopeful that at last some form of justice may be served.
I've given you three reasons why the guy is currently being questioned (who knows, there may be more reasons and indeed there may be more people to be questioned) and these three reasons all appear to be at the very very least extremely "shady" occurances which I would find hard to believe dont break some law. Hence people are "baying for blood".

I hope that there is some hard evidence against Fitz and those of his ilk who rode the tiger into the ground and for which we will all be paying for the next 10-20 or 30 years.

For me personally the chief de tat is Bertie himself. The guy sickens me and always has.
His lack of memory and absolute codswallop of fiction he spouted out at the various tribunals together with his now use of our tax payers money to swan off around the world doing book signings and speeches frankly sickens me. I dont however ever see him being brought to task for whats happened in this country. Indeed I dont see any of the other cowboys being brought to task either and this arrest may just be a smoke screen to take the heat of the Anglo losses this year.

So Cyrus, while you comments basicilly asking that people wait till the true facts emerge and that innocent until proven guilty are somewhat admirable (in that you are on your own on that) the blind facts are that Fitz presided over the biggest corporate loss in the states history and in that period some of the most shady deals in the states history took place.
He wasnt getting paid millions a year to be able to walk away without taking the hit for what happened.

so, Mr Fitzpatrick was acquitted, i had promised myself that i would come back to this thread when this happened

Tigger

Cyrus wrote: »

so, Mr Fitzpatrick was acquitted, i had promised myself that i would come back to this thread when this happened

You and your admiring that innocent until proven guilty crap.

tayto lover

Cyrus wrote: »

so, Mr Fitzpatrick was acquitted, i had promised myself that i would come back to this thread when this happened

Good day for them to announce that with the serious news from Manchester.

kippy

Cyrus wrote: »

so, Mr Fitzpatrick was acquitted, i had promised myself that i would come back to this thread when this happened

You were right. Good on you.
Feel better?

L1011

Heads need to roll in the ODCE for this.

CeilingFly

Its just far too difficult to prove criminal intent.

Not just here, but worldwide.

How many bankers wordwide have gone to jail?

In the USA they say just ONE got jail time. (10 months)



https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wall-streets-bankers-stayed-out-of-jail/399368/

DellyBelly

I should be shocked at this but to be honest I'm really not....the elite really have their own rules...

blackwhite

CeilingFly wrote: »

Its just far too difficult to prove criminal intent.

Not just here, but worldwide.

How many bankers wordwide have gone to jail?

In the USA they say just ONE got jail time. (10 months)



https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wall-streets-bankers-stayed-out-of-jail/399368/

From the RTE report:

Judge John Aylmer ruled this morning on day 126 of the trial that the investigation carried out by the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement fell short of the impartial, unbiased investigation that an accused is entitled to.

He said key witnesses had been coached and the ODCE had failed to seek out evidence of innocence as well as guilt.

Instead, he said, they had made assumptions and tried to build a case against Mr FitzPatrick.

Making misleading statements to auditors should have been an easy case to prosecute. As a Director, Fitzpatrick would have been obliged to sign off on various representations to the auditors regarding related party transactions with the bank.

Someone in the ODCE really managed to screw up on this one, as the judge's comments make is sound like they absolutely butchered the case.

Cyrus

kippy wrote: »

You were right. Good on you.
Feel better?

not better but vindicated,

some of the comments when this thread originally posted were ridiculous and very few would listen to any reason or balance

Del.Monte

Good to see that the Golden Circle is intact. Will any heads roll for this fiasco? How much has it cost the taxpayer?

Captain Obvious

ODCE bit off more than they could chew it seems.

Kitsunegari

What an embarrassment for the ODCE. It's absolutely mental that we will let the same thing happen in the future and no additional safeguards or effective regulation has been put in place. Audit's will continue to be a pointless race to the bottom and directors will continue to have no ultimate responsibility over the actions of their government.

From a criminal justice standpoint we continue to embarrass ourselves with our ineptitude at enforcing the law effectively. Unfortunately, attracting FDI inhibits the progression of the law as we continue to pander to investment over regulation.

It's hard to lay the blame entirely at our own government as making the moves necessary to regulate effectively would be shooting outsleves in the foot when we are in a union with Luxembourg and their ilk.

Sam Russell

Del.Monte wrote: »

Good to see that the Golden Circle is intact. Will any heads roll for this fiasco? How much has it cost the taxpayer?

€60 billion in bail outs, plus interest, plus the visit from Troika. Then there is the cost of the austerity, the homelessness, the negative equity, plus etc. etc. etc.

Then there is the borrowing to pay the dole, and running the country.

About €120 billion in total.

Slydice

Sean FitzPatrick calls today 'a wonderful day for me' after acquittal
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sean-fitzpatrick-calls-today-a-wonderful-day-for-me-after-acquittal-790860.html

Former Anglo Irish Bank chairman, Sean FitzPatrick has said his prosecution for allegedly misleading the bank's auditors about millions of euro in loans was a difficult time for him and his family.

Sean FitzPatrick acquitted on all charges
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0523/877300-sean-fitzpatrick/

Speaking after the ruling the former bank executive said: "I want to say it was a very long and tiring and difficult time for my family, myself but thankfully today the trial is over.

"As you can appreciate it's a wonderful day for me and my family."

https://twitter.com/FrankGreaney/status/866975399871434752

Kitsunegari

Sam Russell wrote: »

€60 billion in bail outs, plus interest, plus the visit from Troika. Then there is the cost of the austerity, the homelessness, the negative equity, plus etc. etc. etc.

Then there is the borrowing to pay the dole, and running the country.

About €120 billion in total.

There is no avoiding paying the dole in Ireland. The costs of running labour intensive employment in this country are unsustainable when you consider the costs of production elsewhere. We've opened up our economy completely and lost our ability to control costs and unsustainable outside factors. The cost of living is quite high and those that choose not to upskill or are unable to upskill in a globalised economy are left behind to rely on the state to provide a means of living.

We don't have the means to push our way out of the path we've taken at the moment. As long as banks are allowed to privatise profits but nationalise debt then there will always be something wrong with the system.

Sam Russell

The dole I was referring to was those thrown out of work due to the shutdown of construction and the recession. We went from full employment to 17.3 % unemployed - currently 6.7%. It cost a lot to pay out so much and it all had to be borrowed.

Mr.Micro

Captain Obvious wrote: »

ODCE bit off more than they could chew it seems.

Incompetents not fit for purpose IMO.

Captain Obvious

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Incompetents not fit for purpose IMO.

Not really. It was the first case of this size and they didn't have the staff or experience for it. They are better equipped now but the damage was already done in this case.

John_Mc

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Not really. It was the first case of this size and they didn't have the staff or experience for it. They are better equipped now but the damage was already done in this case.

What do you mean "not really"? The ODCE exist solely to prosecute cases like this - it is their mandate.

As for this case being particularly complex, I really don't think it is. The loans were given and not reported, or if they were, they were reported as something else in contravention of company law.

It is so wrong and so incompetent that I am begining to think that it was done deliberately to destroy the case. Have a read and see if you really believe it

professore

Sam Russell wrote: »

The dole I was referring to was those thrown out of work due to the shutdown of construction and the recession. We went from full employment to 17.3 % unemployed - currently 6.7%. It cost a lot to pay out so much and it all had to be borrowed.

Spot on. A worker transferring to the dole is a double whammy - lost tax revenue and costs that the state has to bear. However quite a bit of the "employment" in construction was a bubble and unsustainable. Also concerned about the recent report that there is plenty of existing housing in every county in Ireland. Sounds like an artificial demand is being created again.

Del.Monte

Two questions remain:

1) When will 'Mammy' Finucane begin the rehabilitation of 'Seanie' on her programme?

2) When will Seanie instigate proceedings against the State?

amovingstatue

it is indeed wonderful. in an unprecedented, unbelievable, bizarre kind of way.

there's one missing.... but i don't want to affect the impartiality of any future trial jury. hah!

Deiseen

Guys, someone here will know better than me.

But is this the end of the road for a prosecution of Sean Fitzpatrick or can it go to the Supreme court?

Or is it a case now where new evidence would need to surface in order for it to go back to trial.

Just finding it hard to believe that this man has got away with this. If Dunne gets away then that's it, I'm giving up all hope.