chainsaws

indie armada

i cut down about 6 sally trees last year and mulched the branches leaving the larger bows. i need to get hold of a chainsaw to cut them into logs but was told by a few ppl that i cant rent one cause you need a cert to opperate one. can anybody clarify if this is the case and if yes then how can a person go into any diy shop and buy one. i cant afford to buy one and even if i could i would only need it the once.
im not a complete idiot so i know the danger in using one and can understand the health and safety issues so i would be greatfull if somebosy could clear this up. thanks

54kroc

indie armada wrote: »

i cut down about 6 sally trees last year and mulched the branches leaving the larger bows. i need to get hold of a chainsaw to cut them into logs but was told by a few ppl that i cant rent one cause you need a cert to opperate one. can anybody clarify if this is the case and if yes then how can a person go into any diy shop and buy one. i cant afford to buy one and even if i could i would only need it the once.
im not a complete idiot so i know the danger in using one and can understand the health and safety issues so i would be greatfull if somebosy could clear this up. thanks

To my knowledge you don't need a cert,I rented one a few months back no problem and have rented them a lot previously without problems.

Fatswaldo

If you have to use a chainsaw for your job you must have be properly trained and hold a certificate. To use one privately you dont need to. However, they are very dangerous tools and it would be a good idea to get some pointers before using one for the first time!

nullzero

Fatswaldo wrote: »

If you have to use a chainsaw for your job you must have be properly trained and hold a certificate. To use one privately you dont need to. However, they are very dangerous tools and it would be a good idea to get some pointers before using one for the first time!

Spot on. They're not tools you just pick up and use. Good safety equpiment is paramount and plenty of chainsaw oil to keep the chain lubricated, the last thing you want is for it to break.
If you're cutting tree trunks into logs a good idea would be to use saw bucks, but you're probably aware of that already.

indie armada

nullzero wrote: »

Spot on. They're not tools you just pick up and use. Good safety equpiment is paramount and plenty of chainsaw oil to keep the chain lubricated, the last thing you want is for it to break.
If you're cutting tree trunks into logs a good idea would be to use saw bucks, but you're probably aware of that already.

thanks for the replys. ive used an electric one before and i do use similar tools quite often but i do get your point about the safety. ''sawbucks'' i often wondered what the propper name was for them. the bows im cutting range in size from about 3'' up to about 7-8 '' and are about 10 feet long so i have somewhere set up to secure them while cutting.
anyone hazard a guess on the cost of renting on for a few hours?
thanks again for the advice

indie armada

rang 3 tool hire shops today in north county dublin and all 3 said they dont rent them out for insurence reasons and all 3 said i wouldnt be able to rent one at all. very frustrating

gsxr1

just be careful. They can kick back and remove a head very easily.
flesh and bone wont stop the thing.;)

blackharvester

so the best think now is buy a chainsaw. I think you can buy in the shop small good chainsaw husqvarna for about 300e.
but if you dont wont buy chainsaw because you would only need it the once, I can help you and come with my chainsaw and cut them into logs for you.

Nonmonotonic

Looks like you will have to buy a 'Bushman' saw and manually do it. Great for the cardiovascular system (and the environment). Never heard the term 'sawbuck' before, always called it a sawhorse ( great yoke for chainsawing a lot of thin lengths). You can get replacement blades for the bushman when it gets blunt so it is a good investment.

TheMooseInNam

I manage a forest and garden centre and can confirm that you will not be able to hire a chainsaw anywhere in the country from a reputable establishment. The reason is insurance. No insurance company will provide cover for the hire of any type of chainsaw regardless of whether the customer has a cert or not.

My advice would be to hire in an experienced sawman to do the cutting for you. Make sure he's fully covered with insurance.

When using a chainsaw, it's not a matter of "if" you could have an accident, given the nature of them, it's more of a matter of "when" you'll have an accident with them. Always use as much safety equipment as possible, boots, trousers, gloves, jacket and helmet/visor (all with built in saw protection). No matter how much care you take or protective gear you were, nothing will stop you getting hurt, these precautions will only reduce the damage inflicted upon you.

Discodog

Whilst I would agree with your sentiments I would say that you are being over the top. I have been using chainsaws for many years & have never even knicked a finger. It is a matter of common sense & most of all concentration. Most accidents happen when one has felled the tree, the adrenaline has subsided & one is cutting up the fallen timber.

Surely a hire company cannot be insured against damage that a hirer might do to himself ?. Otherwise it would be impossible to hire out anything. The most basic tool can cause serious damage.

Some the "experienced saw men" that I see every day are potentially lethal. It is virtually unknown in Ireland to see an operator with full protection.

The_Conductor

Discodog wrote: »

Whilst I would agree with your sentiments I would say that you are being over the top. I have been using chainsaws for many years & have never even knicked a finger. It is a matter of common sense & most of all concentration. Most accidents happen when one has felled the tree, the adrenaline has subsided & one is cutting up the fallen timber.

Surely a hire company cannot be insured against damage that a hirer might do to himself ?. Otherwise it would be impossible to hire out anything. The most basic tool can cause serious damage.

Some the "experienced saw men" that I see every day are potentially lethal. It is virtually unknown in Ireland to see an operator with full protection.

I'm a trained forester, I've worked in Coillte, the British Forestry Commission and on the continent in Germany and Denmark.

I am personally aware of no foresters, myself included, who have not had an accident at one time or another- and can name over 10 offhand who are missing fingers/toes or have visible arm or facial scarring from their saws. These are professional people.

You cannot assume that you're safe and the saw won't kick unless you're dealing with fallen timber. Knots in timber- and indeed random stray nails- are far more likely culprits.

I use Kevlar gloves, jacket and trousers, a safety helmut and steelcapped boots- and cannot emphasise strongly enough the necessity to use proper safety equipment- and to properly maintain your saw, blades and chains. Even a damaged vibrator on a saw will overtime cause nerve damage in arms and hands- you need to maintain your equipment.

It is my understanding that hire companies are now expected to indemnify people using their equipment (whatever that equipment may be) against any accidents while using that equipment- which is why they have third party insurance to cover themselves. Certainly a large part of this may well be the litigious nature of the Irish in general- however, it only takes one successful claim to bankrupt a company. My local hire company will rent out saws, if you show them a cert- but more often than not will try to sell you a saw- either new or second hand, instead.

I never really understand why you can nip into Lidl or Aldi and buy a 100cc saw- but you can't simply go out and rent one- it really seems to be an obvious loophole. Its even worse that anyone can buy a saw- fill it with fuel mix- and immediately go chopping logs, oblivious to the danger they are in.

When I was a student- we were made do a 3 week training course- including watching various gorey accident videos of the aftermaths of real accidents from the use of chainsaws- culminating in 2 days of first aid training- before we were let near any of the chainsaws. The basic precautions we had drummed into us- saved all of us from harm at varying stages.

A chainsaw is not just another piece of gardening equipment- its an incredibly dangerous machine than requires respect from its operator and ideally, proper training in its use and maintenance.

Yi Harr

I'm also a qualified forester and have spent quite a few years working on a chainsaw crew. My current job also involves chainsaw work a couple of days a week.

I can honestly say that I nor any of the people I've ever worked with have had an accident with the saw. Yes trousers have been nicked and obviously we've had kick back and chainbreak but no spilt blood.

I've also worked with a guy whose only form of ppe was ear muffs and in the 40 odd years he's been felling trees he's never had so much as a nick. Yes you can be unlucky but as with any dangerous job if you wear the ppe and adhere to the training you minimise your risk of injury substantially.

It's a misconception that if you use a saw regularily you'll get injured.

Discodog

smccarrick wrote: »

I'm a trained forester, I've worked in Coillte, the British Forestry Commission and on the continent in Germany and Denmark.

I am personally aware of no foresters, myself included, who have not had an accident at one time or another- and can name over 10 offhand who are missing fingers/toes or have visible arm or facial scarring from their saws. These are professional people.

I am a qualified but now trees are a relatively small part of my work but I still have a 200T that I have used for over 15 years. Yes I wear protection, & yes I maintain my equipment but if I ever thought that using a saw was as dangerous as this then I would of taken up another occupation.

In my experience professionals often take the most risks because of complacency. The DoAg figures show that older people are injured more often & none of the older fishermen here wear life vests !. I have seen countless qualified arborists here taking ridiculous risks.

Last week a major local contractor was strimming verges for the highways agency - the guys were not even wearing eye protection !. Maybe foresters are more susceptible - if they are like the guys on tv !. I know friends that have had a knick - often when sharpening a chain but I do not know of any that have had major injuries.

TheMooseInNam

Discodog wrote: »

Whilst I would agree with your sentiments I would say that you are being over the top. I have been using chainsaws for many years & have never even knicked a finger. It is a matter of common sense & most of all concentration. Most accidents happen when one has felled the tree, the adrenaline has subsided & one is cutting up the fallen timber.

Surely a hire company cannot be insured against damage that a hirer might do to himself ?. Otherwise it would be impossible to hire out anything. The most basic tool can cause serious damage.

Some the "experienced saw men" that I see every day are potentially lethal. It is virtually unknown in Ireland to see an operator with full protection.

Yes, it's true that people don't wear enough protection when using saws in Ireland, that much is very true. Unfortunately, that's mainly due to Irish people not being warned suffiently about the dangers of using chainsaws. You're sentiments are a typical example of this. If you think common sense and concentration is enough to protect you for serious harm, so be it.

As for not having an accident yet, I'm sincerely happy to hear that but it doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. In fact, you could say that you're just another day closer to having that accident

Seriously, I'm not being over the top with my warnings. Using a chainsaw should be taken very seriously and recommending someone to just use common sense and concentration as their only protection is highly irresponsible. The truth is, everyone knows you should wear protection but thinks they'll get away with it and nothing will ever happen to them. If you have an accident with a chainsaw, unprotected, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the severity of the injury or possibly your own death.

Take note of everywhere else in the world, they take chainsaw protection very seriously. I have noticed that people are spending more on protection these days, so I guess awareness is increasing.

I can't really comment about insurance and chainsaws, as I don't have much knowledge about it. However, I do know that commercial chainsaw users are required to be fully kitted out with protective gear these days.

Discodog

I suggest that you read my posts again - I wear full protection & always have. I am also fully qualified.

The idea that I am promoting unsafe saw use is ridiculous.

I am not suggesting that chainsaws are not dangerous. The reason why the standards are so low here is because they are not enforced. We used to get H&S officers turning up when I was working in the UK. They listen out for the sound of machinery & then take a look. Woe betide anyone without full protection. Here no one gives a damn & if some of tree surgeons are "qualified" I would love to know where from as the standard of work is often atrocious.

I am sure that I am more careful now than I used to be because I don't use a saw as often. It can become like an everyday routine & that's when it is really dangerous.

I would bee interested in any links regarding the need for hirer indemnity. Do the insurers have statistics for the most dangerous tools ?.

TheMooseInNam

Discodog wrote: »

I suggest that you read my posts again - I wear full protection & always have. I am also fully qualified.

The idea that I am promoting unsafe saw use is ridiculous.

I am not suggesting that chainsaws are not dangerous. The reason why the standards are so low here is because they are not enforced. We used to get H&S officers turning up when I was working in the UK. They listen out for the sound of machinery & then take a look. Woe betide anyone without full protection. Here no one gives a damn & if some of tree surgeons are "qualified" I would love to know where from as the standard of work is often atrocious.

I am sure that I am more careful now than I used to be because I don't use a saw as often. It can become like an everyday routine & that's when it is really dangerous.

I would bee interested in any links regarding the need for hirer indemnity. Do the insurers have statistics for the most dangerous tools ?.

I'm sorry, I did misread your post, my apologises. Sorry for implying you didn't recommend using protective equipment.

I don't have any links or info on stats but I'm sure insurance companies have access to stats on accidents related to dangerous equipment. In fact, I'm sure if you thrawled to web enough, you'd probably locate some.

I agree with you on the enforcement side of things. The casual attitude towards saws does come from the idea that protection is more of a personal choice than a neccessity.

cnocbui

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

When using a chainsaw, it's not a matter of "if" you could have an accident, given the nature of them, it's more of a matter of "when" you'll have an accident with them.

What a completely over the top load of poppycock.

Discodog

Apology accepted. I am worried about Moose in that he sells machinery, it is Spring, a nice sunny day & he is quiet enough to be posting here !.

TheMooseInNam

Discodog wrote: »

Apology accepted. I am worried about Moose in that he sells machinery, it is Spring, a nice sunny day & he is quiet enough to be posting here !.

Actually, that's probably the reason I misread your post. One eye on the floor and the other on the screen

Discodog

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

Actually, that's probably the reason I misread your post. One eye on the floor and the other on the screen

Tut tut that's how accidents happen !. No good looking at the floor, you need to be drumming up business.

TheMooseInNam

Discodog wrote: »

Tut tut that's how accidents happen !. No good looking at the floor, you need to be drumming up business.

What I need is a weekend off!!! Still have tomorrow to go

indie armada

thank you all for your inputs and info. i have a bow saw here but the timber i have to cut is still quite wet and difficult to cut. i have neither the funds to buy a chainsaw or employ somebody to do the job for me so i think ill have to do it the hard way. (thanks for the offer blackharvest)
it does puzzle me that i can buy one in b&q or any other diy shop without ever having picked one up before. im a hands on kinda person so have no probs picking up and using power tools and have no problem in kitting myself out in safety gear.