Daily Mail PC Story (17/03/10): Jedi believer wins apology

m@cc@

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1258365/Jedi-believer-wins-apology-Jobcentre-kicked-wearing-hood.html

Political correctness strikes back: Jedi believer wins apology after being kicked out of Jobcentre for wearing a hood.

When benefits claimant Chris Jarvis was asked to put down his hood in a Jobcentre, he said he was entitled to wear it because of his Jedi 'faith'.
When he continued to wear the cowl despite repeated warnings, he was escorted from the premises by security guards.
Yet in a case which sums up the march of political correctness in the public sector, he has now received a grovelling apology saying that the government agency 'embraces diversity and respects a customer's religion'. 'Jediism' was made up for the Star Wars films.
The father of three now plans to sue Jobcentre Plus in Southend for discrimination, despite admitting he took up the 'faith' last year only as an excuse to wear hooded tops.
'I am a Star Wars follower. It means following the way of the Jedi,' he said yesterday. 'The main reason is I want to wear my hood up and I have got a religion which allows me to do that. 'Someone with their own religious views is allowed to wear what their religion says - the Sikhs are able to carry a great big dagger. My religion allows me to wear my hood.'
Mr Jarvis, who has been out of work for two years after fracturing both heels, had visited the Jobcentre to enquire about his disability benefits.
'I was told by security staff to remove my hood. I was told, not asked. I said, "It's my religion, I'm a Jedi Knight",' said Mr Jarvis, 31.
The ex-builder, who lives in Southend with his girlfriend, who is also unemployed, said a floor manager then asked him to remove the hood.
He eventually agreed but after he put it back up while using a computer to search for jobs he was escorted from the premises.
Enlarge The Jobcentre writes back: The letter Chris Jarvis received from branch manager Wendy Flewers
Mr Jarvis later wrote to complain. In response, manager Wendy Flewers wrote: 'Jobcentre Plus is committed to provide a customer service which embraces diversity and respects a customer's religion or beliefs.
'I would like to apologise... I have spoken to the member of staff and it was not their intention to offend your beliefs.'
A spokesman for the Campaign Against Political Correctness said: 'This is the problem with the equality and diversity agenda. I'm sure when the legislation was being drawn up people didn't have in mind a Jedi who would sue because they couldn't wear their hood.'
In the 2001 census, 390,000 people listed their religion as Jedi, making it the fourth biggest 'belief' in the country.

Can imagine people were doing cartwheels in their offices when this story broke.

OutlawPete

May the FÁS be with you.

Duggy747

I don't know which is stupider, the "Jedi" follower or the apology.

Ow.....................my brain hurts

Karl Hungus

Brilliant.

scudzilla

OMFG, This world has gone nuts

Super-Rush

Well in fairness he does believe that there actually is a man who lives in the sky and has magic powers. Sounds like a religion to me. Sorry Jedi's.

kumate_champ07

I wonder if the Rastafrians will try get cannabis legalized for themselves in the Uk because it is part of their religion!

Hank_Jones

He'll probably use the Cheebacca defence in court.

OutlawPete

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTsvkwi3TpM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4x2Isl-etQ

smellslikeshoes

In the 2001 UK cenus Jedi was the fourth largest religion, with more than Judaism and Buddhism so he was dam right to push them on it.

Antar Bolaeisk

What a farce, I should invent a religion with core beliefs revolving around the removal of clothing from suitably fine looking women whenever I see fit then just play the religion card when someone comes along to give out to me about it.

Political correctness had already gone far beyond the realms of reason but with this it appears to have entered an entirely different dimension.

Forest Master

"Way of the Jedi" - what a tool.

Knacker who doesnt realise how lucky he is to even be getting benefits in not giving a shít about society shocker!


Didn't jedi's take their hoods down when inside anyway?

Naos

Father of three - he should have more cop on.

Mark200

I don't see the big difference between being a Jedi and being a member of any other religion.

Forest Master

Mark200 wrote: »

I don't see the big difference between being a Jedi and being a member of any other religion.

You really don't see a difference? I'm an atheist but I still wouldn't make an ignorant & arrogant statement like that. Even though other religion is all fantasy too, at least the people practising it genuinely believe it & it dates back thousands of years - this guy is just being a knob for attention.

genericguy

Forest Master wrote: »

You really don't see a difference? Even though other religion is all fantasy too, at least the people practicing it genuinely believe it & it dates back thousands of years - this guy is just being a knob for attention.

so you're basically saying old bullshit is better than newfangled bullshit?

Trashbat

genericguy wrote: »

so you're basically saying old bullshit is better than newfangled bullshit?

There's a difference to someone actually believing a religion, and writing it on a census form for a laugh.

You have to respect people's beliefs, regardless of how nonsensical they are (rising from the dead after three days and all that crap), but common sense should prevail when someone takes sci-fi entertainment and claims it is a religion for the sole purpose of being a pisstaker, like so-called Jedis and Scientologists.

orourkeda

God I hate people

LookingFor

Forest Master wrote: »

You really don't see a difference? I'm an atheist but I still wouldn't make an ignorant & arrogant statement like that. Even though other religion is all fantasy too, at least the people practising it genuinely believe it & it dates back thousands of years - this guy is just being a knob for attention.

How you can say he doesn't genuinely believe it?

As for people writing a religion on census forms without actually believing it, I wager that's true of many people. I'm pretty sure I was put down as catholic on the last census, but that's not really got much to do with what I really believe.

Age is irrelevant.

I think it's awesome If you're a religious believer and think this guy is dumb, then hold that insight in your head and realise this is what non-believers think of the treatment of religion in general. Congratulations, you're now on the same page.

Naos

As said, it'd be different if he was a believer.

More than likely he is just ripping the piss. He said it himself, he joined so that he could wear his hood up - that's not believing.

It's akin to say you joined Catholocism just so you could rock into mass at half twelve, walk up get your bit of wafer and then leave.

bonerm

Great stuff!

Jediism > Catholicism

Plus there's no Jedi child-abusers either ... well, unless you count QuiGonn Jinn that is. But he's dead now so that's ok.

Coriolanus

More power to him. Sikhs get to carry around freaking knives and ignore helmet regulations when biking. So being allowed to wear a hood up ism inor in comparison.

As for whether it's a religion or not, I'm somewhat confused to see people who agree that religions in general are bull**** but that somehow, someone who believes in old bull **** should be given more respect than someone who believes in new bull ****.

bonerm

When's the next Irish census? I'm putting Jedi for it.

Coriolanus

bonerm wrote: »

When's the next Irish census? I'm putting Jedi for it.

Next year.

Forest Master

genericguy wrote: »

so you're basically saying old bullshit is better than newfangled bullshit?

Not at all - you're just making that assumption & missing my point in the process. It's not about new or old. I'm saying that people believe their bullsh*t and this knob doesn't actually believe his - he's just being a kooky hipster because he's bored.

How you can say he doesn't genuinely believe it?

Because a Jedi is from a 30yr old movie written by George Lucas who never claimed it was a religion. Get real.

And I'm an atheist BTW - I'm just not arrogant enough to belittle people who believe in religion - this guy does NOT believe - he's a tosser having a laugh, and he managed to get a whole load of sheep along for the ride - likely the same people who hop on all the 'hilarious' bandwagons & internet fads: putting Jedi on the census form, Rickrolling, The Hoff, Chuck Norris, Zombies, typing in Binary, etc, etc...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

bonerm wrote: »

Great stuff!

Jediism > Catholicism

Plus there's no Jedi child-abusers either ... well, unless you count QuiGonn Jinn that is. But he's dead now so that's ok.

Didn´t teenage/early 20s Annekin kill a bunch of ¨younglings¨ in the most recent movie?

bonerm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Didn´t teenage/early 20s Annekin kill a bunch of ¨younglings¨ in the most recent movie?

Meh , they shouldn't have been there.

Coriolanus

Forest Master wrote: »

Because a Jedi is from a 30yr old movie written by George Lucas who never claimed it was a religion. Get real.

George Lucas was divinely inspired but once shown the truth, turned his face away from the light. This is why he is hated by true Jedi. (Well, that and for making the Phantom Menace :P )

So if a person genuinely believes the above to be true, and good luck to you proving he doesn't, then there's no difference between that and believing in Mithras Jesus.

Edit: Oh, and just as an aside, if Lucas, just for the lulz, came out tomorrow and said that he really did beleive what he wrote, would all your objections cease?

MrStuffins

orourkeda wrote: »

God I hate people

Don't you mean

Obi Wan I hate people

?

Forest Master

So, Nevore: are you saying you're naive enough to believe this guy really thinks he's a Jedi? And you call religious people gullible?

OutlawPete

orourkeda wrote: »

God I hate people

Fear is the path to the dark side.

Fear leads to anger.

Anger leads to hate.

Hate leads to suffering.

Coriolanus

Forest Master wrote: »

So, Nevore: are you saying you're naive enough to believe this guy really thinks he's a Jedi? And you call religious people gullible?

No, actually, I don't think he does, but I guarantee you that there are a few screwballs out there who genuinely do. Now unless you have a practical means to distinguish the jokers and the genuine believers, there's a problem in dismissing the entire idea.
Put it this way, I knowthat there's self-identifying Catholics in the country that don't believe a damn word of it. Know because some of them are friends, who just don't want to rock the boat with the parentals.
So, knowing that some Catholics are insincere in their professing of faith, is that reason enough to dismiss the entire religion? Don't be daft.

Jesus Wept

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Knacker who doesnt realise how lucky he is to even be getting benefits in not giving a shít about society shocker!

What are you basing that on?



The ironing in this thread is incredibly delicious.

bonerm

OutlawPete wrote: »

Fear is the path to the dark side.

Fear leads to anger.

Anger leads to hate.

Hate leads to suffering.

http://www.funfunkypages.com/coolyoda/coolyoda.jpg

Forest Master

Nevore wrote: »

So, Nevore: are you saying you're naive enough to believe this guy really thinks he's a Jedi? And you call religious people gullible?

No, actually, I don't think he does, but I guarantee you that there are a few screwballs out there who genuinely do.

So what? We're talking about this guy. And you just admitted you don't believe him.

So, knowing that some Catholics are insincere in their professing of faith, is that reason enough to dismiss the entire religion? Don't be daft.

No, I'm not saying that - so why are you calling me daft? You typed that sentence, not me. I can do that too - watch:

So you're saying it's okay for this guy to molest children just because he claims to be a Jedi? Don't be so daft.

And no, I don't think there are people who genuinely think Jedi is a religion. It's from a movie. There is no leader. It's 100% fiction & the person who wrote it doesn't dispute that. There are no books or doctrines. Shall I continue?

I realise you're trying to be quirky & ironic with regards to belittling organised religion - but you're being arrogant.
And again - I'm an atheist - I believe all religion is stupid - BUT the people practising it genuinely believe in it - THAT is the whole point. You're just being stupid if you actually believe the "Jedi" followers are genuine.

The issue here is a case of genuineness - not whether or not it's new or old. The Jedi guy is not genuine - that's my WHOLE point, which you admitted you agree with - so WTF are you on about?

I know that there's self-identifying Catholics in the country that don't believe a damn word of it. Know because some of them are friends

It's not my problem that your friends are weak sheep. Afraid of their parents so they pretend to believe in something? Pathetic.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Forest Master wrote: »

I'm saying that people believe their bullsh*t and this knob doesn't actually believe his - he's just being a kooky hipster because he's bored.


And I'm an atheist BTW - I'm just not arrogant enough to belittle people who believe in religion - this guy does NOT believe - he's a tosser having a laugh,

Forest Master wrote: »

So, Nevore: are you saying you're naive enough to believe this guy really thinks he's a Jedi? And you call religious people gullible?

Who gives a ****?? The man has a right to beleive, that´s the point. And he has a right to express said belief in any way he chooses as long as he hurts no one.

The man might be a Jedi, he has the ****ign right to express this and dress as he sees fit - he´s hurting no one.
The man might be a weirdo/sheep/moron/¨bored kooky hipster¨/tosser but again - he has the right to be those things and dress as he sees fit. - he´s hurting no one.

You´re the intolerant one here, who´s doing just as muich to limit freedoms as any church, real or imaginary!

Capt'n Midnight

OutlawPete wrote: »

Fear is the path to the dark side.

Fear leads to anger.

Anger leads to hate.

Hate leads to suffering.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Cookie_Monster

the jedi wore cloaks with hoods, and the guy is just wearing a hoodie. not the same IMO

Forest Master

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Who gives a ****?? The man has a right to beleive, that´s the point. And he has a right to express said belief in any way he chooses as long as he hurts no one.

The man might be a Jedi, he has the ****ign right to express this and dress as he sees fit - he´s hurting no one.
The man might be a weirdo/sheep/moron/¨bored kooky hipster¨/tosser but again - he has the right to be those things and dress as he sees fit. - he´s hurting no one.

You´re the intolerant one here, who´s doing just as muich to limit freedoms as any church, real or imaginary!

I never once said he doesn't have the "right" to do anything - it's not about rights. I said I don't believe he's genuine & that he's wasting peoples time and he's not "entitled" to an apology. He's acting like a tosser - plain & simple.

he has the right to be those things and dress as he sees fit. - he´s hurting no one.

He's free to go around being a kooky tool as much as he wants - but he IS hurting people - he's wasting the time of Job Centre staff who have better things to be doing (i.e. help the unemployed find jobs!!) than entertaining his lame attention-seeking whims.

The man might be a Jedi

Eh, but he's not - because there's no such thing. It's from a movie. Do you actually believe he thinks he's a Jedi & he was genuinely offended & insulted?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Forest Master wrote: »

I never once said he doesn't have the "right" to do anything - it's not about rights. I said I don't believe he's genuine & that he's wasting peoples time and he's not "entitled" to an apology. He's acting like a tosser - plain & simple.


He's free to go around being a kooky tool as much as he wants - but he IS hurting people - he's wasting the time of Job Centre staff who have better things to be doing (i.e. help the unemployed find jobs!!) than entertaining his lame attention-seeking whims.

No, he´s not hurting anyone and he´s not wasting anyone´s time. It´s the job centre staff that are wasting their own time on this. They´re the ones who rasied the objections in the first place. They CHOSE to NOT deal with him and send him on his merry way.

Eh, but he's not - because there's no such thing. It's from a movie. Do you actually believe he thinks he's a Jedi & he was genuinely offended & insulted?

i would have thought it obvious, but the question was rasied hypthectically.

Forest Master

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

They CHOSE to NOT deal with him and send him on his merry way.

And he CHOSE to be an arrogant tool, despite repeated requests to stop acting like a knob & please remove his HOODY - not a "kowl" as the article calls it. He's a spa with his hood up looking to cause trouble - nothing more.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Forest Master wrote: »

And he CHOSE to be an arrogant tool, despite repeated requests to stop acting like a knob & please remove his HOODY - not a "kowl" as the article calls it. He's a spa with his hood up looking to cause trouble - nothing more.

So what you´re sayign is that we should all be nice little sheep and do exactly what we´re told then?

It´s not the item of clothing at isse here, ffs, it´s the principle: the man has a right to wear what he pleases. End of. Weŕe NOT talking about a private establishment for business here. If he wears an Ireland football shirt and told to take it off, we´d be having a damn ****ing Brits Brit-bashign thread around-about now.

Blaming him for time wasting is like blaming a rape-victim for wearing provocotive clothing.
(And before you reply REMEMBER: it´s the PRINCIPLE, not the SCALE)

Mike 1972

LookingFor wrote: »

As for people writing a religion on census forms without actually believing it, I wager that's true of many people. I'm pretty sure I was put down as catholic on the last census, but that's not really got much to do with what I really believe.

You do realise that the person in your household who filled out the census form is guilty of a criminal offence ?

Forest Master

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

So what you´re sayign is that we should all be nice little sheep and do exactly what we´re told then?

What a stupid assumption. Show me where I said that.

It´s not the item of clothing at isse here, ffs, it´s the principle: the man has a right to wear what he pleases. End of. Weŕe NOT talking about a private establishment for business here. If he wears an Ireland football shirt and told to take it off, we´d be having a damn ****ing Brits Brit-bashign thread around-about now.

Principle? Nobody told him to stop wearing his hoody in a public place. Your little rant about 'the right to wear what you want' is completely moot - it didn't happen in a public place. It's a government building - private property - they have the right to enforce their own security-based dress codes. Couriers have to remove their helmets, the same way they asked this knob to take his hood down. If a courier refuses, security can ask him to leave too - is that prejudice against people with helmets? Can they then claim wearing helmets is their 'religion'? Would you support them too on "principle"?
When does this get too absurd for you, or is it always "about the principle"? Can people claim that wearing a dildo on their head is their religion - would you support them too? Or are they just idiots? Well? Where exactly do you draw the line with absurd & "principle"? Does common sense not prevail at any stage, and you deduce that this guy isn't actually genuinely offended and he's just a knob being difficult for the craic?

Blaming him for time wasting is like blaming a rape-victim for wearing provocotive clothing.

What a terrible analogy. The principle isn't the same at all & it's disgusting to use that as an analogy - he decided to be difficult just because he's a spa with nothing better to do. He hasn't been harmed at all - not in any capacity.

(And before you reply REMEMBER: it´s the PRINCIPLE, not the SCALE)

Your "principle" is moot, because it didn't happen in a public place.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Forest Master wrote: »

What a stupid assumption. Show me where I said that.

You said it was his fault for not following instructions. Therefore, it is safe to assume that you think that following instructions regardless of how you feel is the best course of action.

Principle? Nobody told him to stop wearing his hoody in a public place. Your little rant about 'the right to wear what you want' is completely moot - it didn't happen in a public place. It's a government building - private property - they have the right to enforce their own security-based dress codes. Couriers have to remove their helmets, the same way they asked this knob to take his hood down. If a courier refuses, security can ask him to leave too - is that prejudice against people with helmets? Can they then claim wearing helmets is their 'religion'? Would you support them too on "principle"?
When does this get too absurd for you, or is it always "about the principle"? Can people claim that wearing a dildo on their head is their religion - would you support them too? Or are they just idiots? Well? Where exactly do you draw the line with absurd & "principle"? Does common sense not prevail at any stage, and you deduce that this guy isn't actually genuinely offended and he's just a knob being difficult for the craic?

1 - No, it´s not a private building. It´s open to all citizens.

2 - A courier is acting on business and on behalf of the business. If he chooses not to, then he can find himself alternative employment. BIG difference.

3 - Common sense would have called for, as I said, deal with him and end it. Would have been far easier. Common sense would have told the agency to not make an issue of it and respect the guys rights, no matter how insane he chooses to express them.

4 - If wearing something that is sexually offensive, say for example a dildo on your head, then yes, I´m with you, but that´s a different law. If it doesn´t then I say go for it. Were you offended in such a way when you read the story?

What a terrible analogy. The principle isn't the same at all & it's disgusting to use that as an analogy - he decided to be difficult just because he's a spa with nothing better to do. He hasn't been harmed at all - not in any capacity.

So the act of blaming the complainant for wearing unwelcome clothing is not the issue in the Jedi case or the rape case?

And as I said before, he never went down with an attitude fo wantign to be difficult, he went down there on personal business. Unless you know somethign the rest of us don´t.

I´m of the opinion that you really hate the fact that this guy decided to be weird or kooky and you can´t handle people being different. Maybe you just hate the whole idea of religious expression (but it real or fictitious)

If I´m right, why is this? If I´m wrong why the hell do you give a damn what he wears? You weren´t even in the same country.

Ridley

orourkeda wrote: »

God I hate people

Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.

Forest Master

Ikky Poo2 - I don't hate "the fact that this guy decided to be weird or kooky" - it annoys me that he tried to pass it off as being offended because of religion. That's all. He's full of sh*t. It's not about his clothes - it's not about his hood - it's about the pretentious Jedi facade he decided to spout for media attention & so he could high-five his mates down the pub. I'd have more sympathy if I actually thought his concerns were legit and he genuinely felt offended. He has the right to believe what he wants - but he's trying to pass off his smartarsey as religion. I don't believe for one second that he believes he's a Jedi. He's probably just one of these spas who put "Jedi" as his religion on the census because he thought it would be gas.

I fully agree with what you're saying RE the principle of people's rights - but I think it's dangerous territory to pretend you're offended because of religious beliefs when you're clearly just a chancer playing the 'religion' card for a personal laugh.
Basically, I'm irritated that they pandered to his bullsh*t because it sets another ridiculous precedent. I wouldn't have asked him to take down his hood in the first place, BUT after that had already taken place, I wouldn't have entertained his pathetic little Jedi facade.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Forest Master wrote: »

Ikky Poo2 - I don't hate "the fact that this guy decided to be weird or kooky" - it annoys me that he tried to pass it off as being offended because of religion. That's all. He's full of sh*t. It's not about his clothes - it's not about his hood - it's about the pretentious Jedi facade he decided to spout for media attention & so he could high-five his mates down the pub. I'd have more sympathy if I actually thought his concerns were legit and he genuinely felt offended. He has the right to believe what he wants - but he's trying to pass off his smartarsey as religion. I don't believe for one second that he believes he's a Jedi. He's probably just one of these spas who put "Jedi" as his religion on the census because he thought it would be gas.

Disagree, I think he genuinelly believes the stuff. There are certainly some guys who do, who´s to say he´s not one of them? As you said, it´s his right to do so.

If you´re right, though, then the benefits´ staff DEFINITELY should have ignored him and he´d never have gotten the attention in the first place.

I fully agree with what you're saying RE the principle of people's rights - but I think it's dangerous territory to pretend you're offended because of religious beliefs when you're clearly just a chancer playing the 'religion' card for a personal laugh.
Basically, I'm irritated that they pandered to his bullsh*t because it sets another ridiculous precedent. I wouldn't have asked him to take down his hood in the first place, BUT after that had already taken place, I wouldn't have entertained his pathetic little Jedi facade.

I kind of agree with you here, but that´s what I´ve been saying all along: leave him along, he´s harmless and if he´s messing about, he´ll get bored. They, however, gave him the attention.

Takign the Jedi Knight thing as a religion is certainly not new, and there are some people who take stuff like that VERY seriously. Let them have their (mint-condition still-in-the-box) toys.

R0ot

Hey if scientology can be a religon/faith anything can.

weiland79

Obi Wan Kenobi and Luke Skywalker were sitting down to a bowl of spaghetti.
Having never seen spaghetti before young Skywalker was unsure exactly how to eat it.

"The forks Luke,use the forks"
Prompted master Kenobi.

Ah hahahahaha.................... sorry about that.:D