A good Captain??

scudzilla

So what makes a good rugby captain??

I was at Croke yesterday, in my Wales shirt , a proud exiled taff, and for the first time i purchased one of them listen to the ref radios, i couldn't believe how BOD was trying to influence the ref, he was constantly 'pointing' out things that he thought the Welsh were doing wrong and asking the ref to keep an eye on it. Sure enough the ref pulled up for a few fouls on the same things BOD had mentioned later on.

At first i thought that BOD was just being a whining gob****e, but the more i thought of it the more i realised what a good captain he is, Constantly trying to get his side advantages, in any shape or form. Pity Martyn Williams wasn't more like BOD.


What are your thoughts on this? Any other great captains who used to do this a lot? I know Martin Johnson did and he was pretty succesful

Teferi

scudzilla wrote: »

Any other great captains who used to do this a lot? I know Martin Johnson did and he was pretty succesful

Was going to mention Johnson. If only he learned to shut his trap off the field. It's all well and good to be mouthy on the pitch but he was always a mouth after the match, especially when he lost (loses). Drico keeps pretty much zipped off the field or else offers some wisdom about tomatoes...

wixfjord

Theres a fine line I think between the gentle pushing that good captains like BOD O Connell Mcaw Smit etc do and harranging the ref, like O Gara sometimes tends to do when hes captaining. Can have a huge impact on the game Id say because if a captain can make his point sensibly and without resorting to giving out it must influence the ref. Theyre human too after all, no matter what Tim Robbins says

Aidric

wixfjord wrote: »

like O Gara sometimes tends to do when hes captaining.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Podge_irl

I don't think O'Driscoll was a great captain to begin with, but he has really grown into the role. The obvious calls are when to press for tries, go for points etc. but I guess there are a lot more subtleties to it as well.

durkadurka

Dallaglio was always at it, I reckon he was a bit offside in what he did. POC pushed the ref too far that time in the heino when he was sinbinned. He was sinbinned for hands in the ruck but i think the yap to the ref had an infuence on the decision.

I reckon if you go too far you can push the ref the wrong way.

danthefan

POC has definitely crossed the line from influencing to just moaning more than once this season.

Thought BOD did a good job yesterday, I was also listening to ref talk and he made his point to the ref without ever giving the ref a reason to get fed up with him.

phog

danthefan wrote: »

Thought BOD did a good job yesterday, I was also listening to ref talk and he made his point to the ref without ever giving the ref a reason to get fed up with him.

Well he has learnt from experience, a few years back in LR during one of the AIs towards the end of the game he was asking the ref a few times about the score and the time remaining for a finish the ref told him to look to the big screen. At one stage even after the ref gave him the score he asked what does that mean, I think at the time he was trying to decide if we'd kick for points or go down the line.

Ian_K

scudzilla wrote: »

So what makes a good rugby captain??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhgt2pnSywI

scudzilla

you trying to do this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhgt2pnSywI

Just go to the you tube page, the last bit of text in the URL, copy and paste it in between the youtube option on a boards post

chimchimney

I think speaking to the ref mid-game is useful but eclipsed by a captains other roles.

a good captain is first and foremost a good player who can be relied on by his team mates to perform consistently and lead by example.

the captain should have a good understanding of the game, tactics and strategy. for this they obviously need experience.

they need to be a good communicator, eg when they are behind the posts after conceding a try, the captain has about 30 seconds to talk to the team, he needs to pick his message and get it across clearly. same goes for the pre match team talk.

at the top level communication with the media is also important.

as mentioned he is the decision maker on penalties. he would also be involved in choosing game plan along with the coaches and other senior players.

a good captain is 100% committed. his team mates should know that in the 80th minute with a 2 point lead, he will bust his balls to track back and put in a try saving tackle if required.

finally a good captain knows the way to the boozer

Podge_irl

chimchimney wrote: »

a good captain is first and foremost a good player who can be relied on by his team mates to perform consistently and lead by example.

It's one of those things when you try to decide how much a good captain is worth to you over a good player. John Smit isn't really SA'a best tighthead, but gets played there all the same in order to captain the side. O'Driscoll is a better player than Cullen, but Cullen is an excellent captain for Leinster, and POC is a better player than Cullen but Cullen is the better captain for my money as well.

chupacabra

There are different kinds of captains too. BOD was always the kind of captain that lead by example (becoming a cliché :rolleyes:) and did things on the pitch that inspired the team and drove them on. In the last few years for Ireland he has become another entity altogether. Always talking to his players, always talking to the ref and the little things like a little pat on the back for a struggling player etc.

But the huge thing for me that nearly brought a tear to my eye was his performance against England last year. The amount of (unfair) punishment he took from late tackles, blatant shoulder charges and the like would destroy the mindset of any other player. But BOD simply shook it off and got stuck into it. Its the kind of thing you would expect from the great forward captains like Dallaglio, Johnson, Smit, O'Connell etc. And for him to stand up after the battering he took and power over the line from 5 meters...... its a personification of the tenacity, guile and never say die spirit that us irish people apparently have in us and its something he should and will forever be remembered and honored for.

More importantly its what makes him a great captain, the greatest there ever was in my humble opinion.

Podge_irl

chupacabra wrote: »

But the huge thing for me that nearly brought a tear to my eye was his performance against England last year. The amount of (unfair) punishment he took from late tackles, blatant shoulder charges and the like would destroy the mindset of any other player. But BOD simply shook it off and got stuck into it. Its the kind of thing you would expect from the great forward captains like Dallaglio, Johnson, Smit, O'Connell etc. And for him to stand up after the battering he took and power over the line from 5 meters...... its a personification of the tenacity, guile and never say die spirit that us irish people apparently have in us and its something he should and will forever be remembered and honored for.

Whatever about his captaincy in that game, it was the most influential performance I've ever seen. He attracted all of England's attention - the late hits, the constant marking of his channel - and still had twice as much impact as anyone else on the pitch. In those circumstances the players around him can't help but be energised by their captain's performance.

anonymous_joe

scudzilla wrote: »

So what makes a good rugby captain??

I was at Croke yesterday, in my Wales shirt , a proud exiled taff, and for the first time i purchased one of them listen to the ref radios, i couldn't believe how BOD was trying to influence the ref, he was constantly 'pointing' out things that he thought the Welsh were doing wrong and asking the ref to keep an eye on it. Sure enough the ref pulled up for a few fouls on the same things BOD had mentioned later on.

At first i thought that BOD was just being a whining gob****e, but the more i thought of it the more i realised what a good captain he is, Constantly trying to get his side advantages, in any shape or form. Pity Martyn Williams wasn't more like BOD.


What are your thoughts on this? Any other great captains who used to do this a lot? I know Martin Johnson did and he was pretty succesful

You've summed it up fairly well.

As the captain's the only one whose meant to speak to the ref, you need a captain whose constantly talking to the ref, and able to maintain a good relationship with the ref.

Rugby relies massively on its refs, and thankfully they're mostly very good, but you need captains talking to them to keep them up to speed as well.

scudzilla

anonymous_joe wrote: »

You've summed it up fairly well.

As the captain's the only one whose meant to speak to the ref, you need a captain whose constantly talking to the ref, and able to maintain a good relationship with the ref.

Rugby relies massively on its refs, and thankfully they're mostly very good, but you need captains talking to them to keep them up to speed as well.

Which makes me wonder why Martyn Williams was so 'invisible' yesterday, seemed to sum up our whole performance really

anonymous_joe

scudzilla wrote: »

Which makes me wonder why Martyn Williams was so 'invisible' yesterday, seemed to sum up our whole performance really

Bad day at the office?

Or looking tired and passed it?

The point I think that many people forget about the refs,they are there to serve the players,the players are not there to serve them.

The least they can do is talk to the players,refs that have no time for that really annoy me.

andrewdcs

Theres a fine line between 'mentioning casually' and 'whining', one BOD is used to finding and staying on the right side of. Said same in Earls thread, that this presence is as important as speed/hands/game reading etc.

At one point the other day BOD said something I couldn't quite hear (on tv down pub) but the ref said audibly "I know, I take your point" in reference to the breakdown. This kind of thing is natural in rugby, to its credit, it has to be used as the laws are eh, "complicated", you have to find the refs level to get the game going.

Brian Moore (bless) pointed out that Ireland and BOD read the game far better than plodding England at Twickenham. Best refs are the ones who constantly talk at / to the players inviting captains to play the game in the right spirit, Nigel Owens style.

Co45

O'Driscoll is without doubt one of the best captains in the world. He leads by example, is tough, is very smart with the referee and always makes the right decisions. He is calm, assured, grounded and confident. He rarely loses his temper or get caught up in the moment. He has vision which no other Irish player has. He is respected. No Irish player has all of these attributes.

andrewdcs

Co45 wrote: »

O'Driscoll is without doubt one of the best captains in the world. He leads by example, is tough, is very smart with the referee and always makes the right decisions. He is calm, assured, grounded and confident. He rarely loses his temper or get caught up in the moment. He has vision which no other Irish player has. He is respected. No Irish player has all of these attributes.

For some reason, I'm imagining the Movie Trailer Guy reading this over an ad for BOD..... complete with explosions and rolling trucks, Chuck Norris style. :pac:

buck65

O Connell was sin binned by a ref who got tired of O Connell pointing out the basics of the game to him. O Connell was right that night to question him, that flute Poite hadn't a clue what was going on.
The worst ref in the world today and that's saying something. What was interesting on Saturday against Wales was the ref on more than one occasion explained his decisions to O Connell rather than O Driscoll. I suppose refs are used too dealing with O Connell as he has captained the Lions Ireland and Munster.

Podge_irl

buck65 wrote: »

O Connell was sin binned by a ref who got tired of O Connell pointing out the basics of the game to him. O Connell was right that night to question him, that flute Poite hadn't a clue what was going on.
The worst ref in the world today and that's saying something.

Except when the ref was clearly getting annoyed O'Connell should have had the cop on to keep his mouth shut.