Easter Rising Tricolour to fetch €500,000

PomBear

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/easter-rising-tricolour-to-fetch-8364500000-2098402.html


IT is thought to have been the iconic symbol which signified a new Ireland.
Now the last full-sized Tricolour flag of the 1916 Rising still in existence is to go under the hammer at a New York auction house for an estimated €500,000.
The 94-year-old linen flag -- the first symbol of an independent Republic of Ireland -- is thought to have flown from the top of the rebel headquarters in the GPO in Dublin before it was captured by British forces.
Sergeant Thomas Davis, who served with the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, stashed the flag during a clear-up of the city after the Easter Rising.
The flag passed through a number of owners before ending up with a prominent Dublin family who are putting it up for sale in Bloomsbury Auctions in New York on March 23.
The sale of Irish pictures, silver, books and manuscripts is being run alongside Irish auction house Whyte's.
The flag, which measures 75cm high and 160cm wide, is expected to fetch between €363,000 and €509,000 when it goes under the hammer.
Ian Whyte from Whyte's said that while there had been rumours of similar flags from the time, this is the only one that he knows of in existence.
After capturing the flag, Sgt Davis kept it safe before giving it to Dr George St George in thanks for treating his injuries.
A note from Sgt Davis, which is also being auctioned with the flag, reads: "Captured by British Troops at GPO Dublin, April 1916, and given to Dr George St George by an old war veteran, Sergt Davis."
Mr Whyte said he was "not absolutely certain" that the flag was the one which flew on top of the GPO but that he could prove it was from the area.
It is expected there will be strong interest in the flag from both the US and Ireland.
"Any contemporary pennants, favours or armbands with the Tricolour design are extraordinarily scarce with only a few surviving examples of any held in museum collections," a spokesman for Bloomsbury said.






Absolute disgrace in my opinion. Selling our heritage to the highest bidder. This flag belongs to the Irish people and no one else.





:mad::mad:

Judgement Day

Not much that can be done about it and I suspect that it won't make anything like that figure - just auctioneers trying to get free publicity for their sale.

PomBear

We should have a treasure trove like the brit monarch

Judgement Day

PomBear wrote: »

We should have a treasure trove like the brit monarch

We do, it's called the National Museum but it probably doesn't have enough in the kitty for this flag even if they wanted it.

Hagar

If it can be positively identified why not demand its return as stolen property? Just a thought.

brianthebard

Stolen from who? It was never owned by the state, it was made by a group of private individuals and taken by a private individual at the end of Easter week. tbh with the amount of possiblys and perhaps' in that article I wouldn't want to be betting my money on it being authentic.

Morlar

PomBear wrote: »

The flag passed through a number of owners before ending up with a prominent Dublin family who are putting it up for sale in Bloomsbury Auctions in New York on March 23.

It would be interesting to see who the 'prominent Dublin family' are & also whether or not it was offered to the state before being put for public auction, & if so which civil servant/dept/politician decided not to buy it. Minister for Heritage anyone ???

lord lucan

There's not a hope they'll get anywhere near that amount for it. They say themselves that they have no conclusive proof it flew over the GPO and that it was in the area! Not very enticing at €500,000 for something that "may" have been in the city centre at Easter in 1916.

Hagar

brianthebard wrote: »

Stolen from who? It was never owned by the state, it was made by a group of private individuals and taken by a private individual at the end of Easter week. tbh with the amount of possiblys and perhaps' in that article I wouldn't want to be betting my money on it being authentic.

The private individuals owned the flag. Correct?
For taken - without owner's consent - read stolen.

brianthebard

69 wrote: »

The private individuals owned the flag. Correct?
For taken - without owner's consent - read stolen.

Ownership would be incredibly hard to establish consider how everyone connected is dead for a long time now and no one afaik ever put a copyright/ownership claim on the flags from the beginning.

lord lucan

Slightly OT but does anyone know where the green "Irish Republic" flag resides these days?

Hagar

brianthebard wrote: »

Ownership would be incredibly hard to establish consider how everyone connected is dead for a long time now and no one afaik ever put a copyright/ownership claim on the flags from the beginning.

We are not talking intellectual rights we are talking phyical property. If it can be traced back to an owner then all interim "possession" of the property has no legal basis in law. Stolen property always remains the property of its rightful owner and becomes part of their estate afaik.

brianthebard

69 wrote: »

We are not talking intellectual rights we are talking phyical property. If it can be traced back to an owner then all interim "possession" of the property has no legal basis in law. Stolen property always remains the property of its rightful owner and becomes part of their estate afaik.

I've emphasised the key word in your post. It can't be traced back to an owner because these flags were made by groups of men and women working for a common goal with no interest or claim towards ownership of these items. I don't know why its so hard to grasp that point.

PomBear

Judgement Day wrote: »

We do, it's called the National Museum but it probably doesn't have enough in the kitty for this flag even if they wanted it.

AFAIK, the monarch don't need to pay in treasure trove

SlabMurphy

I suupose it's questionable if it's the real deal but if it is authentic it should be bought by the state regardless. Since we're discussing flags I thought I'd mention that JF Kennedy when he visited Irealnd as President prestented the Dail with the Fightin' Irish battlion's flag in the American Civil war and it hangs there since. Also, something like a 1,000 copies of the 1916 proclamination were printed and posted around Dublin on the morning of the rising. I think there are only like 5 or 6 of them left. One is in the Dail. They are very valuable, your looking at €100,000's to buy one, serious. One of them was found in a skip a few years ago been thrown out of a house in a picture frame and made a very nice earner for the person who recoverred it.

who the fug

Has anyone traced this Sergt Davis?

walrusgumble

lord lucan wrote: »

Slightly OT but does anyone know where the green "Irish Republic" flag resides these days?

collins barracks musuem

Morlar

Morlar wrote: »

Minister for Heritage anyone ???

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0323/rising.html

Tricolour from 1916 Rising fails to sell

The last full-sized Tricolour from the 1916 Rising still in existence, which was guided at a value of between $500,000-$700,000, has failed to sell at auction in New York.

The flag was withdrawn at $400,000 dollars. The auctioneers say they are still optimistic about the prospects of arranging a private sale.

The Tricolour is thought to have flown from the top of the GPO during the rising.

The auction house's description says the linen Tricolour is accompanied by a note from Dr George St George, (who owned the flag untill1922) reading 'Captured by British Troops at GPO Dublin, April 1916 and given to Dr George St George by an old War veteran, Sergt Davis'.

The flag was handed down to Mr St George's daughter and then was gifted 'to a neighbour, the son of a famous Irish nationalist and statesman, co-founder and early president of Sinn Féin'.

Bloomsbury Auctions says 'the fact that this flag is the only recorded full sized Tricolour of the 1916 Rising in existence, and therefore of the utmost rarity and importance. makes it a unique icon of immeasurable significance in the history of the Irish Revolution.'

brianthebard

who calls their child George St George? /off topic.

mike65

It'll still end up above the fire place in some Texans front room

Morlar

mike65 wrote: »

It'll still end up above the fire place in some Texans front room

Or in some planet hollywood type theme bar. It speaks volumes about this nation at this moment in time that a Rising flag, not only is not snapped up by the minister responsible in govt, but in a public sale doesn't even meet it's reserve.

Judgement Day

I wonder if there were actually any bids on it? I had a feeling that there was a bit too much hype about the flag with very little solid evidence of its provenance. Perhaps it was the made in Taiwan tag that gave the game away?

PomBear

The government can claim it, similar thing happened in Webb v. Ireland with the Derrynaflan Hoard

brianthebard

PomBear wrote: »

The government can claim it, similar thing happened in Webb v. Ireland with the Derrynaflan Hoard

Surely this only applies to precious metal finds? /Roald Dahl told me so.

Read this

I'm sure its in my attic. Mine is green on the left, white in the middle and orange in the fly. Could it be the one?