I don't really get it

pickarooney

I've been watching rugby for almost 25 years and it's time to come clean. I genuinely don't understood the majority of what goes on during a game.

I'm a casual viewer, admittedly, and have no real club allegiance apart from a natural leaning towards my birth province. I watch every 6 nations game, every WC match Ireland is involved in and the latter stages of the Heineken Cup. I simply don't have the time or the coverage to watch more.

Still, you'd think at this stage I'd have more or less cottoned on to what's going on during my occasional forays into rugby viewership. Sadly, I'm still clueless.

I regularly see players being voted Man of the Match when I hadn't noticed they were on the pitch. I've no idea what Parisse or McCaw do to make them such universally lauded forwards. If I think really hard and get an image in my head I can just about work out which prop is the tight head and which is the loose, but the notion of open versus blindside flanker is lost on me. Up until today, I really thought David Wallace was just making up the numbers in the pack.

And it's not just limited to the forwards. I can watch Mike Philips punch holes in opposition defences and appreciate what he does, I thought Gregan was a fantastic player. The Fijian guy whose names escapes me was one of the best 9s I've had the pleasure to watch, with his slippery runs and powerful tackle-slips. I never understood how Peter Stringer was a professional athlete. I mean, I knew he was decent, I wasn't really questioning his inclusion in a top-level international side, but every time I watched him I had the impression that I was looking at a small boy throwing a ball to his mates every 5 minutes. The full-back position has always perplexed me. Catch, kick, run after your kick and on rare occasions manage to catch it before dropping it under a tackle seems to be the raison d'être of the 15.

Then there's the rules. I have not a bog's notion what 90% of penalties are given for. My eyes glaze over at any mention of 'the breakdown' or 'recycling'. Players have to be on their feet, off their feet, hands in, hands off, rolling away and staying strictly on one side of a line. I feel like an atheist at mass for the first time or a white man salsa dancing every time the ball goes to ground.

But despite this, I love watching rugby. I love the fact that I can thoroughly enjoy a game and then speak to five people who thought it was a terrible match or that I can fall asleep waiting for the final whistle while others gnaw their fingertips on the edges of their seats. I love the pre, during and post-match discussions and can't resist chiming in, hoping against hope my comment won't be drowned in scorn or used against me in a court of law.

I have the utmost admiration for all those who play the game, and play it in such a positive spirit. I'd love to be young enough to get more involved, join a team and get the crap knocked out of me a couple of times a week and go drinking with bruises all over my body and i've no intention of not watching the sport simply because I'm clueless as to the laws that govern it.

I'm just wondering if there are many more like me who just... don't really get it?

mink_man

no

chupacabra

Im sure there are loads if people like you, but just dont ask us to explain things to you because in all honesty you really do have to have played the game to really understand the fine details of such areas like the breakdown, scrum and maul. If you watch enough rugby you should get the hang of things. Also i urge you to read the wikipedia article about the various positions on the rugby field as it will help you understand each players role a little better. Hope this helps

3hn2givr7mx1sc

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm just wondering if there are many more like me who just... don't really get it?

I'd doubt it, considering it's the rugby forum, tbh.

But yeah, I can see how it can be confusing for someone who has never played the game. I've played rugby for a good few years, and I couldn't tell ya why player X got man of the match sometimes.:o

fifth

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm a casual viewer, admittedly

This is your problem right here.

Watch the pre match analysis, listen to the post match chat and visit boards during matches to read some of the banter.

Take that online rugby laws quiz (its floating around here somewhere) and read the bits in the sports sections in the newspapers. Or spend some time with a friend that loves rugby.

Failing that, join your local club and you'll soon pick it up.

narwog81

i think you really need to have played the game at any level at all to appreciate that the backrow forward turning over ball on the ground or the no8 repeatedly making ground behind a retreating scrum is just as crucial to the team and winning of the game as the nice tries scored out wide from a clean line break.

good example is wallace's play on the ground today, really gave ireland a platform at crucial times in the game.

basically the simple dirty stuff is just as beautiful as the flashy fast stuff if you've ever been the man in that postion or been in a team that depended on it...

Nozebleed

yeah i agree...i dont fully understand the game. .i've watched for 15-20 years and in fairness i think its a pretty poor game in general. entertaining certainly but not the most skillfull game.

valleyoftheunos

As long as you enjoy watching it I wouldn't worry too much, besides there are guys out there who have been refereeing for 20 years who still dont have a clue whats going on and some of them are professionals!

If you do want to improve your knowledge of the game there was a book published around the start of the Last world cup that was written for Rugby fans to better understand the laws of the game, I think it was by Liam Toland. I also remember that a friend of my mum's took a "rugby appreciation course" one year.

yogidc26

Nozebleed wrote: »

yeah i agree...i dont fully understand the game. .i've watched for 15-20 years and in fairness i think its a pretty poor game in general. entertaining certainly but not the most skillfull game.

Not skillfull

You try and kick a rugby ball 45 yards and put it between the post or run at full pace a put a pass in to the hand of the on running player.

Id say your a soccer fan

Judgement Day

Nozebleed wrote: »

yeah i agree...i dont fully understand the game. .i've watched for 15-20 years and in fairness i think its a pretty poor game in general. entertaining certainly but not the most skillfull game.

For the day that's in it - a glimpse of Ireland's most skill-less player.:rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo5VB6aKWZE

irishbucsfan

Judgement Day wrote: »

For the day that's in it - a glimpse of Ireland's most skill-less player.:rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo5VB6aKWZE

Wish he'd scored that...

Nozebleed

yogidc26 wrote: »

Not skillfull

You try and kick a rugby ball 45 yards and put it between the post or run at full pace a put a pass in to the hand of the on running player.

Id say your a soccer fan

No im definately not a soccer fan. Im a GAA supporter..Hurling more than football! im not trying to be nasty when i say there's no skill in rubgy. i guess im just bored watching the ball being kicked back and forth. Id like to see less 3points scored by the foot. I have tried to pass a rugby ball to be honest. its not easy..

Nozebleed

jesus lads just watched that clip of O'Driscoll. He through the ball up in the air to himself! skill? yiz are having a laugh..

valleyoftheunos

Nozebleed wrote: »

jesus lads just watched that clip of O'Driscoll. He through the ball up in the air to himself! skill? yiz are having a laugh..

It was "sheer world class" according to the commentator, a little bit of hyperbole perhaps.

Judgement Day

Nozebleed wrote: »

jesus lads just watched that clip of O'Driscoll. He through the ball up in the air to himself! skill? yiz are having a laugh..

I've been watching rugby for more than 40 years and I can't even recall ever seeing a player be so outrageously self confident as BOD was in throwing the ball to himself. There's no point in talking further to you as you clearly have no interest or knowledge in the game.:rolleyes:

gcgirl

you can't please everyone i love my rugby tried to play it coached a little bit and seriously it's the toughest game i have ever played i've played soccer, gaa both football and camogie all at high levels but rugby is just something else you struggle to get up 2 days after a match but it's worth it

Pisco Sour

Nozebleed wrote: »

No im definately not a soccer fan. Im a GAA supporter..Hurling more than football! im not trying to be nasty when i say there's no skill in rubgy. i guess im just bored watching the ball being kicked back and forth. Id like to see less 3points scored by the foot. I have tried to pass a rugby ball to be honest. its not easy..

A Gaelic Football supporter saying that theres little skill in Rugby Union? Dear god!!!!! :eek:

durkadurka

In fairness re the OP's lack of understanding of what's going on in a ruck etc I don't think there's enough explanation of what's going on by commentators.Maybe they dont understand either.

Even if you don't understand it there's a lot to appreciate in the honesty, the effort and courage, the team spirit, the drama. Oh, and moments of genius by BOD.

Tricity Bendix

I can certainly agree where the OP is coming from. Half the time the ref blows his whistle I haven't a clue what its for.

DougL

chupacabra wrote: »

Im sure there are loads if people like you, but just dont ask us to explain things to you because in all honesty you really do have to have played the game to really understand the fine details of such areas like the breakdown, scrum and maul.

That attitude really annoys me. No, you don't have to have played rugby to understand it. I'm sure it helps to have played, but it's a cop out to say it's necessary, and exclusionary to boot.

I love the game of rugby, but due to circumstances of geography, I didn't get a chance to play it. However, I was lucky enough to have been introduced to it as a spectator by a friend who took me along to games and answered a lot of stupid questions like, "why do they keep kicking it out of bounds on purpose?". My advice would be to look at youtube videos or get sky+ so you can listen to the commentary and go back and watch the play in slow motion. That really helped me learn the game.

gavkm27

durkadurka wrote: »

In fairness re the OP's lack of understanding of what's going on in a ruck etc I don't think there's enough explanation of what's going on by commentators.

Did ya not hear McGurk asking the panel to explain the breakdown for the viewers,fair enough they kinda danced around the topic,but from what i can see they are trying to explain things a bit better nowadays as we are all aware of more and more people are interested in Rugby since the slam.

gavkm27

gavkm27 wrote: »

Did ya not hear McGurk asking the panel to explain the breakdown for the viewers,fair enough they kinda danced around the topic,but from what i can see they are trying to explain things a bit better nowadays as we are all aware of more and more people are interested in Rugby since the slam.

The panel dont have a clue,I suggest people watch the bbc coverage if they want to learn anything.

OP,the ref kept blowing up today because when the players tackled another player he wanted them to release the tackled player and allow them to get to their feet before trying to rip the ball off them.

mikedragon32

Alonzo Icy Rig wrote: »

The panel dont have a clue,I suggest people watch the bbc coverage if they want to learn anything.

OP,the ref kept blowing up today because when the players tackled another player he wanted them to release the tackled player and allow them to get to their feet before trying to rip the ball off them.

And here is where the confusion starts! It's not just the laws, but the interpretation of them.

Up to recently it was enough to have made the tackle and once you, as the tackler, are back on your feet you can contest for the ball. Now you must break you contact with he ball carrier before you contest the ball. I'm not sure that you need to allow him back to his feet.

As for the gaa man who reckons there is no skill to rugby but can't even pass a ball himself, you must be in management. "I don't understand it and I can't do it but it must be simple"

gavkm27

Alonzo Icy Rig wrote: »

The panel dont have a clue

Brendan Cole knows what he is talking about,fair enough the other 2 are there for entertainment purposes

irishbucsfan

Alonzo Icy Rig wrote: »

OP,the ref kept blowing up today because when the players tackled another player he wanted them to release the tackled player and allow them to get to their feet before trying to rip the ball off them.

Wrong.

Eventually people will get used to this interpretation, hopefully they won't change it again and confuse things too quickly. It is a far better way to play the game.

anonymous_joe

durkadurka wrote: »

In fairness re the OP's lack of understanding of what's going on in a ruck etc I don't think there's enough explanation of what's going on by commentators.Maybe they dont understand either.

Even if you don't understand it there's a lot to appreciate in the honesty, the effort and courage, the team spirit, the drama. Oh, and moments of genius by BOD.

The problem's not that the commentators don't understand, it's that it's just not easy to explain.

Sid_Justice

Like all sports forums, the lads on the Boards.ie rugby forum think they're all knowledgeable experts on the game. There are a lot of people like the original poster - people who love following the irish rugby team, the lions, munster and leinster but never really played the sport or even knew about it when they were kids.

I think all the team sports, especially the big irish ones like Soccer, Rugby and Gaelic Football have parts of the game which are flashy and ostentatious and are obvious to every one, casual supporter included. These are the things the attacking midfielders do in soccer, or the great shot stopping saves the goal keeper does or the great points from midfield in GAA. But a lot of what makes a qualify defender etc. can easily go unnoticed. A lot of the workhorse box to box defending and bossing of the game Roy Keane did may have been overlooked by some for the excellent free kicks David Beckham did. Or any of those players who have great positional awareness and understanding may look that they've a very easy time and fade into the background.

I think this type of thing is even more pronounced in rugby. A lot of what Forwards do is when they don't have the ball in hand. Those top notch wing forwards who are in the middle of those rucks and mauls, ensuring the ball comes back or they spoil opposition ball. The guy lifting in the lineout, the guy heaving in the scrum.

Having said that, David Wallace is a pretty good ball handler and usually gets his name announced by the commentator more often than someone like John Hayes who is another unseen Trojan which many boards.ie rugby guys have man-crushes on.

Ultimately finding out why certain kicks lead to scrums rather than 22 kick outs or why David Wallace is considered a great player but not a supreme open-side will do you no harm but I don't think it's absolutely necessary for enjoying the spectacle that is high level high quality rugby.

Seifer

In the spirit of this thread and having just watched the highlights of the Ireland game again; can someone explain to me how the penalty in the lead up to the first Irish try is given against Wales for preventing the release of the ball?
Surely Sexton is holding onto the ball as he is isolated and the Welsh players are trying to strip it from him?

Risteard

Seifer wrote: »

In the spirit of this thread and having just watched the highlights of the Ireland game again; can someone explain to me how the penalty in the lead up to the first Irish try is given against Wales for preventing the release of the ball?
Surely Sexton is holding onto the ball as he is isolated and the Welsh players are trying to strip it from him?

Same interpretation as the Wallace penalty. He judged Williams to not have released the player before competing for the ball.

My first instinct was that Sexton would be penalised for holding on. I think it's good that he applied the ruling consistently. In that respect I had no complaints with him.

wixfjord

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Like all sports forums, the lads on the Boards.ie rugby forum think they're all knowledgeable experts on the game. There are a lot of people like the original poster - people who love following the irish rugby team, the lions, munster and leinster but never really played the sport or even knew about it when they were kids.

I think all the team sports, especially the big irish ones like Soccer, Rugby and Gaelic Football have parts of the game which are flashy and ostentatious and are obvious to every one, casual supporter included. These are the things the attacking midfielders do in soccer, or the great shot stopping saves the goal keeper does or the great points from midfield in GAA. But a lot of what makes a qualify defender etc. can easily go unnoticed. A lot of the workhorse box to box defending and bossing of the game Roy Keane did may have been overlooked by some for the excellent free kicks David Beckham did. Or any of those players who have great positional awareness and understanding may look that they've a very easy time and fade into the background.

I think this type of thing is even more pronounced in rugby. A lot of what Forwards do is when they don't have the ball in hand. Those top notch wing forwards who are in the middle of those rucks and mauls, ensuring the ball comes back or they spoil opposition ball. The guy lifting in the lineout, the guy heaving in the scrum.

Having said that, David Wallace is a pretty good ball handler and usually gets his name announced by the commentator more often than someone like John Hayes who is another unseen Trojan which many boards.ie rugby guys have man-crushes on.

Ultimately finding out why certain kicks lead to scrums rather than 22 kick outs or why David Wallace is considered a great player but not a supreme open-side will do you no harm but I don't think it's absolutely necessary for enjoying the spectacle that is high level high quality rugby.

Great post.

wixfjord

Nozebleed wrote: »

No im definately not a soccer fan. Im a GAA supporter..Hurling more than football! im not trying to be nasty when i say there's no skill in rubgy. i guess im just bored watching the ball being kicked back and forth. Id like to see less 3points scored by the foot. I have tried to pass a rugby ball to be honest. its not easy..

Definately more skill in hurling than rugby, but gaelic? Come off it! Are you not sick of the ball being handpassed back and forth! A bad gaelic game is infinitely worse than a bad rugby game tbh. Hurling on the other hand...

Pride Fighter

I got it. I watched rugby since I was a child but never had the chance to play as I'm miles away from the nearest club.


But now there are so many rule changes it is extremely annoying. I preferred it when you could carry back into the 22 and kick into touch and gain territory, when rucks where rucks and there was never 10 minutes of table tennis back and forth kicking per game. As a casual observer it seems to me the sport is being changed by the southern hemisphere sides so their style of play can come through.

Bring back the old rules, thats what I say.

The_Kew_Tour

Good Op I taught. Be honest I think if you were to go down to pub on day of game and ask people some the rules I would say more then 70% would not know the rules other then the basic rules.

Most women in there have not a clue in hell whats going on but just want to watch guys in shorts simple as. I have been going to games since I was 5 back in 1988 but at times I wish for days when you go to pub and be surrounded by people who had passion for the game and wanted see there country do well and knew what they were talking about rather then listen to people talking during game having no interest until try is scored or placing there hands on there head if they concede try.

Now its all about pride and passion and at end day that in itself proves that the skill required in rugby is not as great as in the other 3 main sports played in this country.

gcgirl

Ahem some of us know our stuff!:D

adrian280582 wrote: »

Good Op I taught. Be honest I think if you were to go down to pub on day of game and ask people some the rules I would say more then 70% would not know the rules other then the basic rules.

Most women in there have not a clue in hell whats going on but just want to watch guys in shorts simple as. I have been going to games since I was 5 back in 1988 but at times I wish for days when you go to pub and be surrounded by people who had passion for the game and wanted see there country do well and knew what they were talking about rather then listen to people talking during game having no interest until try is scored or placing there hands on there head if they concede try.

Now its all about pride and passion and at end day that in itself proves that the skill required in rugby is not as great as in the other 3 main sports played in this country.

The_Kew_Tour

gcgirl wrote: »

Ahem some of us know our stuff!:D

Ah but did you see word before that:D.

No there are girls that do know what there talking about and your correct. I know girl and she goes all games and give me pasting on some rugby topics.

My point goes across men too maybe even much more. I dont mind bangwagon support (as happens in all team sports) but just because you been too one game does not make you rugby expert as I see with many people.

I just think its in Rugby more then any other sport I know.

anonymous_joe

Rugby's bloody complicated, and rugby fans have a habit of being bloody arrogant about that.

alanatoday

I understand one thing about rugby............ Jamie Heaslip....... *drools*:D

longhalloween

I found the best way to learn the basic rules and terminology of rugby was from Rugby 08 on the ol PS2. Class game that taught me (nearly) everything I know.

That said rugby has so many obscure rules that might only crop up in the odd match is easy to get confused if you only watch it casually.

anonymous_joe

Nah, Ferris is prettier.

The_Kew_Tour

alanatoday wrote: »

I understand one thing about rugby............ Jamie Heaslip....... *drools*:D

Well there is my backup:D

alanatoday

adrian280582 wrote: »

Well there is my backup:D

Before I let down the rest of the women folk rugby fans..... I don't like the fact that opposing team can bring down the rolling maul now
(see, I DO understand (while also being able to appreciate a handsome man )

mikedragon32

alanatoday wrote: »

Before I let down the rest of the women folk rugby fans..... I don't like the fact that opposing team can bring down the rolling maul now
(see, I DO understand (while also being able to appreciate a handsome man )

They can't. Collapsing the maul was one of the ELVs that were scrapped at the end of last season. It is now illegal (again) to collapse the maul. Thank God!

Dustaz

I know how the OP feels.

I went to a rugby school after 6 years of soccer in primary school and on the first day of 'games' (the use of the plural was quite ironic) everyone was asked who had played rugby before. roughly half raised their hands and this seemed to satisfy the coaches that no more than a cursory explantion of the rules was required.

I played schools rugby for about 4 years before conceding i was not built for it and giving up entirely (we werent allowed play anything other than rugby). In that time the rules were never fully explained to me. I more or less worked them out in later life from watching the tv (and working on an IRB rules video helped too ).

Still though, to this day, i find it hard to spot fouls in the rucks and mauls and i know how the OP feels about not _REALLY_ knowing why certain players are having such an influential game.

New interpretations like the one on saturday dont help either. I (along with pretty much the rest of the pub that i was watching the match in) was pretty sure that was a penalty to wales and even now i still dont understand how it wasnt. He pretty clearly held on to the ball because he was so isolated, regardless of the tackler not releasing the player.

damselnat

adrian280582 wrote: »

G
Most women in there have not a clue in hell whats going on but just want to watch guys in shorts simple as.

That is an attitude I find in most pubs when I'm watching any sport, slightly less with rugby (and excepting for tennis - and cricket, where 90% of a pub won't know what's going on, gender regardless:p), but it is still very much there. You're not even given a chance, often just ignored! I'm not whinging, used to it now, frustrating as it might be sometimes, I wouldn't know (or dare to suggest I did!) as much as most people on this forum, but I certainly know a hell of a lot more than the majority of my male friends, and uncles!;) The truth is, as others have said, I reckon more than half the people in a pub, for all their posturing and shouting, wouldn't really be able to tell you half of the rules...and that's part of the beauty of the game:D


And just for good measure

:D

walshb

I like Rugby, but have to admit, I am clueless about some rules and penalties.
As for the game; I may be in the minority, but I really really enjoy the war of attrition type
of games as opposed the the free flowing running and passing. There is just something incredibly powerful and tough and physical about the maul and the scrumming' and battling.

As for the women. Ok, some women do enjoy the game, but lets be honest, most claim to be fans just to be seen to be fans. It's like a new fashion accessory. Fellas do too, but for the women, this game is no more enjoyable than a game of ****ing chess. The hubby likes it, the boyfriend likes it, the father likes it, so I must and have to "like it." This applies to soccer too. It's a soap to most of these women, and most cannot see the skill or flair or passion.

You can bet that any women following rugby or soccer follow no other sport whatsoever, and an hour of Eastenders or Corrie or What Katie did next would be much more appealing to them

damselnat

walshb wrote: »

Fellas do too, but for the women, this game is no more enjoyable than a game of ****ing chess.

Ah now, that's seriously pushing it a bit! Chess?? Honestly!!:pac::pac:

gcgirl

I'd say there are a load of Men Crushes going on in reality

walshb

damselnat wrote: »

Ah now, that's seriously pushing it a bit! Chess?? Honestly!!:pac::pac:

Women and sport we are talking....

Generally, men and women see things differently, sport definitely being one of those things

gcgirl

walshb wrote: »

Women and sport we are talking....

Generally, men and women see things differently, sport definitely being one of those things

i'm seriously must have been born with a male brain

walshb

gcgirl wrote: »

i'm seriously must have been born with a male brain

Must have been, and some men have been born with a female brain....;)

damselnat

walshb wrote: »

Women and sport we are talking....

Generally, men and women see things differently, sport definitely being one of those things

I don't disagree with that, but chess is a little extreme.....!
But yup, this is the typical sort of male attitude, I'm just got by the chess thing:pac::pac: I'd liken it more to shoe shopping..

As for the man crush thing, Rob Kearney seems to be a popular one??? (Engineering students get very honest after a few bevvies :D)