Theologian maps 12-step recovery for church

Erren Music

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0312/1224266107677.html

ONE OF Ireland’s most distinguished theologians has recommended a 12-step programme of recovery for the Catholic Church in Ireland.
Fr Enda McDonagh, former professor of Moral Theology at St Patrick’s College, Maynooth, calls for the church leadership to repent more convincingly their failure “in dealing with the crimes of clerical and religious sexual abuse”.


FFS


AAAAARRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH


These fckin morons can't help themselves.


Ther idea that they have to come up with this bullsh1t now is staggering.






Dear Fr Enda McDonagh,


the fact that you are a former professor of Moral Theology at St Patrick’s College, Maynooth, indicates that you are a delusional madman who has given your life to the service of a ficticious being.


Would you not think that step 1 of your programme would be to hand over every one of those fcuking perverts that your pope asked to cover for, and then hand over all files that you have about the abuse, and files or information concerning who knew about the abuse, and when they knew.



You will only be in a position to make restitution after you have cleared out the rotten core of your church.

spurious

Here's a 2 step programme.

1. Hand over every asset the Church has gathered in Ireland, schools, hospitals, land, including influence on boards of management etc.
2. Start again, entirely separate from the State, living lives of poverty entirely funded from the 'faithful' (or those who still feel they can).

What would Jesus do?

philologos

Erren Music wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0312/1224266107677.html

ONE OF Ireland’s most distinguished theologians has recommended a 12-step programme of recovery for the Catholic Church in Ireland.
Fr Enda McDonagh, former professor of Moral Theology at St Patrick’s College, Maynooth, calls for the church leadership to repent more convincingly their failure “in dealing with the crimes of clerical and religious sexual abuse”.

Criticising the Roman Catholic Church for abuse is one thing, but criticising the Roman Catholic Church for trying to deal with it is another thing. Some of the 12 I feel are lacking, but your aggression is unwarranted. It's hardly as if the Roman Catholic Church are going to suggest that they should just pack their bags.

Erren Music wrote: »

the fact that you are a former professor of Moral Theology at St Patrick’s College, Maynooth, indicates that you are a delusional madman who has given your life to the service of a ficticious being.

There is no reasoning in this.

Erren Music wrote: »

Would you not think that step 1 of your programme would be to hand over every one of those fcuking perverts that your pope asked to cover for, and then hand over all files that you have about the abuse, and files or information concerning who knew about the abuse, and when they knew.

I think they should have been brought through the courts as in the US, the State is about as guilty as the Roman Catholic Church in this case. There should have been transparency, this is the problem with the whole incident. I agree with you, but I think it's important that they are thinking about the way forward at all.

Erren Music wrote: »

You will only be in a position to make restitution after you have cleared out the rotten core of your church.

This document although lacking, is part of the thinking that has to happen in clearing up the rotten core of the Roman Catholic Church.

Owen

13. Don't mind that the Pope covered up Child Rape.

This guy is a moron. Speaking about having meetings with those the church raped, and using the term "Loving patience and understanding".

robindch

Erren Music wrote: »

[...] fckin morons [...] bullsh1t [...] delusional madman [...] fcuking perverts

Erren Music has been carded for inappropriate language. The next time any four-lettery appears, bans will be handed out.

Erren Music

Jakkass wrote: »

Criticising the Roman Catholic Church for abuse is one thing, but criticising the Roman Catholic Church for trying to deal with it is another thing. Some of the 12 I feel are lacking, but your aggression is unwarranted. It's hardly as if the Roman Catholic Church are going to suggest that they should just pack their bags.

What planet do you lot live on. I know you are completely delusional and cannot have a logical factual discussion about religion

BUT

How are they trying to deal with their abuse?


Can you guess what will happen if I ever come face to face with the dog collared perv that tried it on with me.

I can ask here.

If I put my abuser in hospital will I go to prison?, even though he abused over 200 other kids.

philologos

Erren Music wrote: »

What planet do you lot live on. I know you are completely delusional and cannot have a logical factual discussion about religion

Delusional / illogical / unfactual = don't agree with you?
I'm glad I don't fit into such a narrow world view. These words have no meaning in the way you are using them.

Erren Music wrote: »

How are they trying to deal with their abuse?

Such conversations and suggestions as to how the Roman Catholic Church can move forward are part of the solution.

As a non-Catholic, I'm not exactly sure about how best the Roman Catholic Church can really repair the damage that they have done. I think inviting victims to Catholic prayer groups and other things is inherently harmful, if such people want to do this, it should be when they are ready to. There is a huge amount of grief involved in this, and this is the suggestion I think is most unreasonable in the whole thing.

Erren Music wrote: »

Can you guess what will happen if I ever come face to face with the dog collared perv that tried it on with me.

I'm not attempting to justify any of this in the slightest. I just think that it is natural for the Roman Catholic Church to think of their way forward if there is one. I think the abuse was horrible and terrible, and I hope that the Roman Catholic Church do make serious effort to put it right.

PeterIanStaker

This is another fine example of how divorced from reality the RCC is.

First, we have the Bishop of Ferns and his Rape Tax, then we had the bishop of Elphin feeling all hard done by. And now this.

Keep it coming guys, what asinine statement are you going to come out with next?

Dig the hole, thats it. Makes our job here at A&A that bit easier.

Dades

Erren Music wrote: »

What planet do you lot live on. I know you are completely delusional and cannot have a logical factual discussion about religion.

The next time you get personal on another poster you'll be taking a holiday.

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Dig the hole, thats it. Makes our job here at A&A that bit easier.

Nobody has a job in A&A. It's a discussion forum.

PeterIanStaker

Dades wrote: »

Nobody has a job in A&A. It's a discussion forum.

Ok, then it makes our position, point of view, easier to understand.

bnt

Jakkass wrote: »

Criticising the Roman Catholic Church for abuse is one thing, but criticising the Roman Catholic Church for trying to deal with it is another thing. Some of the 12 I feel are lacking, but your aggression is unwarranted. It's hardly as if the Roman Catholic Church are going to suggest that they should just pack their bags.

Well, of course they aren't - it would be like a bunch of Wall Street bankers deciding that the way to end the recession was to close their banks. Not gonna happen, even if it would be the right thing to do.

Besides, I would hardly call that "dealing with it". Using the Wall Street bankers again: it's like sending them on an Accounting course. I think they know the basics well enough, but that's not where the problem lies, is it?

recedite

I like no. 10, I think he might be onto something...

"10. The intellectual weakness of the Irish Church will also require attention in the path to recovery.. ":D

hiorta

"10. The intellectual weakness of the Irish Church will also require attention in the path to recovery.. ":D[/QUOTE]

Intellectual weakness? Minimising the effect once again? Surely it is moral weakness first of all? Next, by confining the problem to Ireland is even more minimising.

The root problem does not lie in Ireland, or Europe. Neither is it intellectual.

Would you care to try to identify it again?
That is, if you are serious in claiming a desire at eradication, although it is now too little, too late.

kelly1

Erren Music wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0312/1224266107677.html

ONE OF Ireland’s most distinguished theologians has recommended a 12-step programme of recovery for the Catholic Church in Ireland.
Fr Enda McDonagh, former professor of Moral Theology at St Patrick’s College, Maynooth, calls for the church leadership to repent more convincingly their failure “in dealing with the crimes of clerical and religious sexual abuse”.


FFS


AAAAARRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH


These fckin morons can't help themselves.

What??? Do you think the Church shouldn't reform??? Presumably you just want it to disappear?

I think the Church very badly needs reform and many of the clergy need a major dose of humility but the last thing I want to see if the Church disappear. I think it need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

--amadeus--

kelly1 wrote: »

What??? Do you think the Church shouldn't reform??? Presumably you just want it to disappear?

That would be nice, if slightly unrealistic.

The church has no option other than to try to reform. There are two questions though. The first is in it's capacity to reform. So far the pronouncments from all and sundry aren't that promising, focusing (again) on damage limitation.

The second issue is if any reform will be enough or if the RCC is mortally wounded. With a scandal that is rapidly spreading worldwide I personally find it hard to see how they can attempt to provide any sort of "moral compass" to teh world - the stench of hypocrisy is overwhelming even the most blinkerdly loyal church supporter into reassessing thier position.

Sadly I think some people will flock from one congregation to another rather than cast aside religion. Still though, it's another nail in the coffin.

robindch

kelly1 wrote: »

What??? Do you think the Church shouldn't reform??? Presumably you just want it to disappear?

You should perhaps steel yourself to learn that some people in the atheists and agnostics forum would be quite happy to see the church disappear!

Turtwig

When will people ever learn? Church's don't reform; they have schisms.

Zillah

But...

...I don't want the Church to recover.

I want it to die the undignified death that it deserves. I want their secrets and lies and arrogance dragged into the sun, kicking and screaming. I want the last sounds that echo through the halls of the Vatican to be cries of scorn and dismissive laughter.

I want the world to see it for what it is.

Zillah

Also did anyone else notice that they neglected to include an explicit "confess to our complicity" or "apologise to the victims"?

--amadeus--

Zillah wrote: »

I want the last sounds that echo through the halls of the Vatican to be cries of scorn and dismissive laughter.

I'd prefer the last cries to be:

"Going once... going twice... gone!"

robindch

Zillah wrote: »

I want the last sounds that echo through the halls of the Vatican to be cries of scorn and dismissive laughter.

Ah, a latter-day Denis Diderot!

Diderot wrote:

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.

iUseVi

robindch wrote: »

Ah, a latter-day Denis Diderot!

"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."

Awesome quote

Zillah

robindch wrote: »

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.

As a delightful parallel to your end-of-religion quote, I give you my favourite start-of-religion quote:

Voltaire wrote:

Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.