Bridge strikes - maybe it's not ALWAYS the driver's fault?

dowlingm

Found via Ferdinand von Prondzynski's blog.

Southsider1

If you take the signs from left to right:

1. The safe height for the Luas cables past the bridge.

2. The actual height of the bridge

3. The safe height of vehicles going under the bridge...

L1011

My brother has found a bridge with unequal signs each side, will have to ask him for the pics.

Cookie_Monster

Southsider1 wrote: »

If you take the signs from left to right:

1. The safe height for the Luas cables past the bridge.

2. The actual height of the bridge

3. The safe height of vehicles going under the bridge...

this, fairly obvious tbh.

oh, and

4. don't foget the tourist hostel

bmaxi

MYOB wrote: »

My brother has found a bridge with unequal signs each side, will have to ask him for the pics.

Is there a gradient on one side, that could explain it?

Run_to_da_hills

You also have to allow a couple of inches for the camber in the road.

paulm17781

Southsider1 wrote: »

1. The safe height for the Luas cables past the bridge.

2. The actual height of the bridge

3. The safe height of vehicles going under the bridge...

Thanks for that.

Would it not make sense to set one height limit for all, ideally the lowest one?

Victor

MYOB wrote: »

My brother has found a bridge with unequal signs each side, will have to ask him for the pics.

The height needs to be for the full length of the vehicle, so if one approach is flat and the other is sloped, then different heights would be correct. There is also the matter of bridges with multiple spans.

However, it might make sense to talk to whoever owns the bridge to have it checked.

http://www.irishrail.ie/bridgeheights/bridge_heights.asp

IMPORTANT NOTES:

1. Exact clearance cannot be guaranteed at a particular time
2. Clearances calculated for 40’ (12.192m) long vehicles
3. Clearances at arch bridges are available only at a restricted width as indicated on bridge by “Goal Posts”. Arch bridges are marked with a *
4. For further information on clearances, or to order copies of Railway Bridge Maps contact the office of the Chief Civil Engineer Infrastructure, Track and Signals HQ, Iarnród Éireann, Inchicore, Dublin 8 on (01) 703 4228 or email Bridge Maps bridgemaps@irishrail.ie

This information was updated on 12th September 2005

Zoney

Southsider1 wrote: »

If you take the signs from left to right:

1. The safe height for the Luas cables past the bridge.

2. The actual height of the bridge

3. The safe height of vehicles going under the bridge...

I would suggest there should only be one height posted, no. 3. Also the warning sign for height (the yellow diamond, not the mandatory restriction sign on the bridge) should simply be posted on the same pole as the overhead electrical cables warning sign, below it, thus linking the two warnings without a need for an additional height warning for the overhead cables.

The mandatory height sign in the other direction should be posted just before the electrical cables, rather than just on the bridge. I.e. not just warning before the electrical cables, but actually telling you it is illegal to proceed with a vehicle exceeding that height (obviously a warning sign too in advance of the cables).

Jumpy

bmaxi wrote: »

Is there a gradient on one side, that could explain it?

Um ...

paulm17781

It seems odd. I mean, something may fit under the cables but not the bridge. How in anyway does it matter that the one is higher? You're still not going to get through.

bmaxi

Jumpy wrote: »

Um ...

What, too many syllables? Try slope.

Victor

The yellow/black and red/white signs refer to different bridges. http://www.irishrail.ie/bridgeheights/bridge_heights.asp

378 Frenchman's Lane 4.97 16' 3"
379 Gardiner St. 5.11 16' 9"

The front grey/yellow sign refers to the Luas overhead power cables.

The location http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=swrkxtggbt1b&scene=42335546&lvl=2&sty=b

foggy_lad

The driver is always at fault because if he is unsure of the height he should make every effort to contact irish rail or the county council and then only proceed with extreme caution and with the assistance of someone else if possible to guide the vehicle under the bridge.

D'Peoples Voice

foggy_lad wrote: »

The driver is always at fault because if he is unsure of the height he should make every effort to contact irish rail or the county council and then only proceed with extreme caution and with the assistance of someone else if possible to guide the vehicle under the bridge.

ah now that makes sense, so your man can stop on Garderner street(assuming that is where the picture is taken, reminds me of gardiner street anyway) and ring 11850 to get Irish Rail's number, (don't see it on the sign). Then he can ring Irish Rail who are always so prompt at answering, and get passed from one person to another before being told to do a 3 point turn on that road. Take god for the ban on trucks with more than 5 axles.

On the road leading to the Jack Lynch tunnel, they tell you well in advance of the height of the tunnel, so you have time to take an exit before the tunnel.
Guess that type of thinking by the authorities would be frowned upon in these parts!!!!

Victor

Gardiner St. at 5.11m is well over the legal maximum of 4.65m. The driver shouldn't be on the road if (a) he doesn't have a permit for an over-height vehicle (b) hasn't planned his route

Ham'nd'egger

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

ah now that makes sense, so your man can stop on Garderner street(assuming that is where the picture is taken, reminds me of gardiner street anyway) and ring 11850 to get Irish Rail's number, (don't see it on the sign). Then he can ring Irish Rail who are always so prompt at answering, and get passed from one person to another before being told to do a 3 point turn on that road. Take god for the ban on trucks with more than 5 axles.!

All Irish Rail bridges (Both under and over) have a 24 hour phone number on them.

L1011

Hamndegger wrote: »

All Irish Rail bridges (Both under and over) have a 24 hour phone number on them.

Including some with no railway under them at all (Broadstone line)!

Ham'nd'egger

MYOB wrote: »

Including some with no railway under them at all (Broadstone line)!

And there is a good reason for that. The Broadstone line has not been legally abandoned by CIE so they are still responsible for the bridges on the branch.

dowlingm

RPA should get on with taking over Broadstone now that IE have been told they will not be allowed run service on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PkS6LnirRI

If you look carefully there is an "Idiot bar" just in front of the bridge!

foggy_lad

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

ah now that makes sense, so your man can stop on Garderner street(assuming that is where the picture is taken, reminds me of gardiner street anyway) and ring 11850 to get Irish Rail's number, (don't see it on the sign).

he should not be there at all if he has checked his route as any competent driver would have done! and the number is not on the signs it is usually on both sides of the walls under the bridge or at the side on some bridges.

Then he can ring Irish Rail who are always so prompt at answering, and get passed from one person to another before being told to do a 3 point turn on that road. Take god for the ban on trucks with more than 5 axles.

the number is a dedicated number for reporting idiots that dont know the rules of the road and just close their eyes and hope for the best!

On the road leading to the Jack Lynch tunnel, they tell you well in advance of the height of the tunnel, so you have time to take an exit before the tunnel.
Guess that type of thinking by the authorities would be frowned upon in these parts!!!!

are you saying the thuck drivers in cork are somehow less intelligent than truck drivers elsewhere? also tunnels have totally different rules concerning notifications than ordinary rail bridges.

gjim

Victor wrote: »

The height needs to be for the full length of the vehicle, so if one approach is flat and the other is sloped, then different heights would be correct.

That can't be true, surely? It would mean that a vehicle could drive through safely in one direction but would get stuck if they immediately reversed back under the same bridge along the same path.

Victor

gjim wrote: »

That can't be true, surely? It would mean that a vehicle could drive through safely in one direction but would get stuck if they immediately reversed back under the same bridge along the same path.

That would assume both sides of the road are identical, which would be rare, given curvature, camber, drainage etc.

gjim

Victor wrote: »

That would assume both sides of the road are identical, which would be rare, given curvature, camber, drainage etc.

No I'm not assuming anything at all about the road.

IF such a bridge existed then, like I said, it would be possible for for a vehicle to drive safely through but get stuck if they reversed following the EXACT (but reverse) path back under it. That isn't physically possible in my mental picture of the world. If its roof touches the bridge going in reverse, then it would have also touched the bridge when the vehicle was in the exact same position but going forward.

In other words, vehicles require the very same clearance whether going forward or going in reverse no matter what the terrain. As a result, it's impossible for a bridge to have different clearances for each direction regardless of the topology of the road.

gurramok

There are CCTV cameras operated by IE mounted to the bridges at Bath Ave & South Lotts Rd in Dublin so in that case there would be proof of what heppaned in any litigation!

Cookie_Monster

gjim wrote: »

No I'm not assuming anything at all about the road.

IF such a bridge existed then, like I said, it would be possible for for a vehicle to drive safely through but get stuck if they reversed following the EXACT (but reverse) path back under it. That isn't physically possible in my mental picture of the world. If its roof touches the bridge going in reverse, then it would have also touched the bridge when the vehicle was in the exact same position but going forward.

In other words, vehicles require the very same clearance whether going forward or going in reverse no matter what the terrain. As a result, it's impossible for a bridge to have different clearances for each direction regardless of the topology of the road.

I've been thinking exactly this for the whole thread. There is no way two sides of the same bridge can correctly display different height signs.

steve-o

paulm17781 wrote: »

Would it not make sense to set one height limit for all, ideally the lowest one?

That sounds way too much like a common sense solution. (And, the sign makers union would never allow it.)

Cookie_Monster

steve-o wrote: »

That sounds way too much like a common sense solution. (And, the sign makers union would never allow it.)

but can you drive under the bridge and turn before the Luas lines? I'm not sure but if you can then separate heights are required, if not then just the lowest one should be in place

trad

I've watched car transporters going under Butt Bridge west bound. They use the bus lane because the camber of the road gives them and extra couple of inches they need.

bmaxi

trad wrote: »

I've watched car transporters going under Butt Bridge west bound. They use the bus lane because the camber of the road gives them and extra couple of inches they need.

Must say, I've never seen an amphibious car transporter.

trad

bmaxi wrote: »

Must say, I've never seen an amphibious car transporter.

It's called a ship.

I didn't think everyone would know what I was talking about if I said the Loop Line Bridge.

And in recent years a bus went through the wall at Butt Bridge
http://www.rte.ie/news/2000/1204/bus.html

bmaxi

trad wrote: »

It's called a ship.

Are ships allowed to use the bus lanes? What about College Green?

trad

bmaxi wrote: »

Are ships allowed to use the bus lanes? What about College Green?

Yes, the Viking Splash Tours use the bus lanes are are licensed as ships with the Department of Transport http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/11989-PASSENGER_SHIPS_091110-1.PDF

Cookie_Monster

trad wrote: »

Yes, the Viking Splash Tours use the bus lanes are are licensed as ships with the Department of Transport http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/11989-PASSENGER_SHIPS_091110-1.PDF

"ship" implies a certain size and deep water ability, neither of which the ducks have. I would suggest "boat" or "amphi-tub" be a more accurate description

trad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

"ship" implies a certain size and deep water ability, neither of which the ducks have. I would suggest "boat" or "amphi-tub" be a more accurate description

The Department of Transport defines a boat as carrying up to 12 passengers and a ship as carrying over 12 passengers. So technically yes, a ship does use the bus lanes.

And who are we to disagree with the Dept of Transport formerly Marine Communications and Natural Resources.

bmaxi

trad wrote: »

The Department of Transport defines a boat as carrying up to 12 passengers and a ship as carrying over 12 passengers. So technically yes, a ship does use the bus lanes.

And who are we to disagree with the Dept of Transport formerly Marine Communications and Natural Resources.

You'd certainly need you wits about you to compete with such a lofty intellect as Noel Dempsey. I'm intimidated just thinking about it.

So, if ships are using the bus lanes, do you reckon the bus at Butt Bridge might just have been suffering a fit of pique?

Ham'nd'egger

bmaxi wrote: »

So, if ships are using the bus lanes, do you reckon the bus at Butt Bridge might just have been suffering a fit of pique?

Maybe he got washed away in the traffic flow:)

Capt'n Midnight

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I've been thinking exactly this for the whole thread. There is no way two sides of the same bridge can correctly display different height signs.

Unless of course the traffic in different directions goes under different parts of the bridge like when they use the other side of the road.

Not

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I've been thinking exactly this for the whole thread. There is no way two sides of the same bridge can correctly display different height signs.

Possibly one end of the bridge is higher than the other end, due to either the bridge taking a rail line/road thats passing over on an incline, or because the surface of the road underneath is banked for whatever reason.

Cookie_Monster

Not wrote: »

Possibly one end of the bridge is higher than the other end, due to either the bridge taking a rail line/road thats passing over on an incline, or because the surface of the road underneath is banked for whatever reason.

side to side, fair enough but front to back can't work. Bbut even for side to side height difference surely it would still be bad practice to have differing heights as traffic would assume can use one wy if the other.